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  Topic: Discussing "Explore Evolution", Have at it.< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,11:57   

Ho hum...

Quote
Paul Nelson   Viewing Board index   May 09 2008,11:32


--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 09 2008,18:40   

I went fishing today.  I just can't wait by the mail box all day every day.  When I got home the mail had arrived, but not a promised review copy of EE.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
stevestory



Posts: 9030
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 13 2008,21:52   

http://www.evolutionnews.org/2008....ro.html

Paul hasn't been talking to us, but he has been talking elsewhere, trying to convince people that his dishonest little 'textbook' isn't just that.

   
raguel



Posts: 107
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 13 2008,22:30   

So I'm guessing the quote about homologous structures without homologous genes has to do with hox genes?

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 14 2008,14:39   

Quick, gimme a feather to knock with me over!

The postman just delivered my very own copy of Explore Evolution streight from the Discovery Institute offices, postmarked May 8th. I tremble with antisipation.

Thank you, Paul.  As I promised, I'll do my best.

Gary

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 14 2008,14:51   

Quote (Dr.GH @ May 14 2008,15:39)
Quick, gimme a feather to knock with me over!

Ugh.  It's gone viral.

:D

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 14 2008,18:10   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 14 2008,12:51)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 14 2008,15:39)
Quick, gimme a feather to knock with me over!

Ugh.  It's gone viral.

:D

Opps. That should read, "Quick, gimme a feather to knock  over me with!

All better.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 14 2008,19:14   

Quote
77 guests, 8 Public Members and 0 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Lou FCD >Shirakawasuna >didymos >EyeNoU >Reciprocating Bill >Mr_Christopher >MillstoneCam >Paul Nelson


Damned near missed that one.  Off the crossbar and into the net, baby.

Edited by Lou FCD on May 14 2008,20:15

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: May 14 2008,19:19   

Quote (Dr.GH @ May 14 2008,19:10)
Quote (Lou FCD @ May 14 2008,12:51)
Quote (Dr.GH @ May 14 2008,15:39)
Quick, gimme a feather to knock with me over!

Ugh.  It's gone viral.

:D

Opps. That should read, "Quick, gimme a feather to knock  over me with!

All better.

A few other ideas have I about which that feather you can do of at over with...

:D

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,07:14   

On a roll:

Quote
91 guests, 8 Public Members and 1 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Lou FCD >olegt >vivasuh >MillstoneCam >PTET >Reciprocating Bill >Paul Nelson >Maya


--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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carlsonjok



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(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,07:26   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 15 2008,07:14)
On a roll:

 
Quote
91 guests, 8 Public Members and 1 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Lou FCD >olegt >vivasuh >MillstoneCam >PTET >Reciprocating Bill >Paul Nelson >Maya

He is probably making sure he has all the latest information in order to correct the problems with "Explore Evolution" before this symposium for science teachers.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,08:38   

Quote (carlsonjok @ May 15 2008,07:26)
He is probably making sure he has all the latest information in order to correct the problems with "Explore Evolution" before this symposium for science teachers.

According to that link, the symposium at Biola will have parallel discussions on the physical sciences and the life sciences. Since none of the named speakers have any training in the life sciences, I wondered who would be leading those sessions. When you look at the schedule, it appears that the life science sessions will be led by Paul (a philosopher) and Mike Keas, who is described as having "earned a Ph.D. in the history of science from the University of Oklahoma." Personally I think that another Sooner, ERV, might have been a better choice. Even though she is still a graduate student, I'd wager that her understanding of biology far outstrips that of Nelson or Keas.

Or maybe expertise in the relevant discipline is not really important, since it seems that this symposium is really just an opportunity to flog EE as a science textbook. The title for Keas' two presentations is "Biology: Using the “Explore Evolution” Curriculum".

Paul, since the title of one of your presentations is "Recent Advances in Intelligent Design", perhaps you can tell us what some of those advances might be.

Thanks in advance

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,09:00   

"Recent Advances"

hahahahhahahahaha

I remember in grad school when it was seminar time and you didn't have anything to report you could always resort to a review topic:  Recent Advances, New Horizons, Emerging Technology, and so on.

Actually, I'm looking forward to Paul's treatment on this subject:  "Why the Supreme Court Decision Against Intelligent Design is Wrong."  

Selling advance tickets for this one, Paul?

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,09:28   

I thought this was pretty good:

         
Quote
Attention: Public School Teachers

Are you looking for ways to fulfill governmental educational mandates concerning controversial topics in the biology classroom?  The Biola Symposium will help you.  Educational standards in both the US and the UK, for example, clearly state that the curriculum should help students to understand the full range of views that exist and why such topics may generate controversy.

A US Supreme Court decision allows teachers to teach biology in a way that incorporates “a variety of scientific theories…with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction.”  The new supplemental textbook Explore Evolution, when coordinated with other materials, empowers teachers and students to better fulfill these public educational goals.


Shorter:

         
Quote

Stop saying 'Creationism'!!!!!



--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,11:12   

Quote
73 guests, 17 Public Members and 1 Anonymous Members   [ View Complete List ]
>Lou FCD >Dr.GH >CeilingCat >Steverino >stevestory >J-Dog >Mr_Christopher >Henry J >Reciprocating Bill >Venus Mousetrap >Paul Nelson >Richardthughes >olegt >awhite >MillstoneCam >JohnW >RF Brady


I think I'm about to hit the triple hat-trick.

Edited by Lou FCD on May 15 2008,12:12

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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raguel



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Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: May 15 2008,13:24   

Ouch that article (and sub to Nature) is pretty expensive. I sent an email to Wagner. Hopefully I can get a copy.  :)


Quote
Quote
it is quite remarkable that most biologists continue to interpret nearly every aspect of biodiversity as an outcome of adaptive processes. This blind acceptance of natural selection as the only force relevant to evolution has led to a lot of sloppy thinking, and is probably the primary reason why evolution is viewed as a soft science by much of society.


Timmer calls Explore Evolution™s discussion of natural selection "hallucinatory"' on the contrary, if anything, the book soft-peddles the problems. Again, will students learn about these debates from their standard texts? Almost certainly not.


I'd like to believe that EE actually discusses gene transfer and genetic drift and didn't just go for quote mines but based on prior evidence I don't hold out much hope. Paul, feel free to correct me.  :D

  
stevestory



Posts: 9030
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 16 2008,01:18   

BTW, whoever Kseniya is, who coined the phrase Calendrical Depth, deserves some kind of 'Putting up with Paul Nelson' award.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10324
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(Permalink) Posted: May 16 2008,09:30   

In case Paul is lurking...

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2008/05/inordinately-fo.html#more

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Albatrossity2



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Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2008,07:16   

Hi, Paul.
Quote
Paul Nelson   Viewing Board index   May 19 2008,06:59

Bye, Paul.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
JohnW



Posts: 2321
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2008,12:57   

Quote (Lou FCD @ May 15 2008,07:28)
I thought this was pretty good:

         
Quote
Attention: Public School Teachers

Are you looking for ways to fulfill governmental educational mandates concerning controversial topics in the biology classroom?  The Biola Symposium will help you.  Educational standards in both the US and the UK, for example, clearly state that the curriculum should help students to understand the full range of views that exist and why such topics may generate controversy.

A US Supreme Court decision allows teachers to teach biology in a way that incorporates “a variety of scientific theories…with the clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction.”  The new supplemental textbook Explore Evolution, when coordinated with other materials, empowers teachers and students to better fulfill these public educational goals.

This is great news for the ID community.  All they need now is a scientific theory.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
stevestory



Posts: 9030
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: May 19 2008,20:17   

Not much to talk about w/r/t Paul Nelson at the moment. He's running around, trying to promote creationism while pretending not to.

I'm just waiting for GH to calm down enough to write about Explore Evolution. He's been reading it for several days now, so presumably his blood pressure is in the 300/150 range.

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2008,07:18   

Paul and I must be on the same schedule.
Quote
Paul Nelson   Viewing a topic in: After the Bar Closes...   May 20 2008,07:00


--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2008,17:30   

I think Paul visits AtBC every morning.  I often see him logged in between 7 and 9 am CST.

I suspect he's looking for his ethics which he lost somewhere.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 20 2008,22:39   

Quote (stevestory @ May 19 2008,18:17)
I'm just waiting for GH to calm down enough to write about Explore Evolution. He's been reading it for several days now, so presumably his blood pressure is in the 300/150 range.

I do have some money jobs still.  (OK, I have been fishing.  The season has really gone off!  A week ago Sunday I caught the 2nd and 3rd and 4th largest bonito that I have ever caught in my life.  And I lost the big fish of the day right at the gaff.  

This Sunday the kelp bass were very active just out of the harbor mouth (that would be ~ one mile from my door).  Monday I spent fishing off shore at Catalina Island.  Excellent!

Today I worked on the truck (1985 Toyota PU).  I'll be buried in it (Well not really, maybe they could drive my carcass to the medical school lab with it).  I have read bits of EE.  So far it is crap.  I am thankful that Paul had the DI send me a copy, but I did promise him I would do my best to refute it.

I have also been writing reviews of creationst books at Amazon.com.

It might not even take my best.  The bullshit started on page "v."

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2008,08:57   

I thought the bullshit started with the title.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2008,11:51   

Quote (Doc Bill @ May 21 2008,06:57)
I thought the bullshit started with the title.

D'oh!

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
fusilier



Posts: 216
Joined: Feb. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: May 21 2008,13:16   

My copy came today, May 21, also postmarked May 8.

To be fair - everything must go to our downtown mailroom, before being sent out here.

fusilier, in Indianapolis
James 2:24

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fusilier
James 2:24

  
deejay



Posts: 113
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 23 2008,09:04   

For those interested:

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9:57 Eastern

  
Lou FCD



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: May 24 2008,01:11   



Quote
don't drink the bath water, by mugley


--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Doc Bill



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(Permalink) Posted: May 26 2008,09:26   

Quote
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>Doc Bill >BopDiddy >okboy >Paul Nelson >olegt >oldmanintheskydidntdoit



9:20 CST

Right on schedule.

Hey, Paul, how are the errata volumes coming along?

  
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