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Jason Spaceman



Posts: 163
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2007,15:24   

The Texas state school board's anti-evolution strategy seems to be evolving from "Teach ID" to "Teach the strengths & weaknesses about evolution" (a.k.a. "Teach ID").

Quote
By TERRENCE STUTZ / The Dallas Morning News

AUSTIN - Should "intelligent design" - the cousin of creationism - be taught in science classes in Texas alongside evolution?

A solid majority of the State Board of Education, which will rewrite the science curriculum for public schools next year, is against the idea, even though several members say they are creationists and have serious doubts about Charles Darwin's theory that humans evolved from lower life forms.

Interviews with 11 of the 15 members of the board - including seven Republicans and four Democrats - found little support for requiring that intelligent design be taught in biology and other science classes. Only one board member said she was open to the idea of placing the theory into the curriculum standards.

"Creationism and intelligent design don't belong in our science classes," said Board of Education Chairman Don McLeroy, who described himself as a creationist. "Anything taught in science has to have consensus in the science community - and intelligent design does not."

Mr. McLeroy, R-College Station, noted that the current curriculum requires that evolution be taught in high school biology classes, and he has no desire to change that standard.

"When it comes to evolution, I am totally content with the current standard," he said, adding that his dissatisfaction with current biology textbooks is that they don't cover the weaknesses of the theory of evolution.. . .

. . . And while the board apparently won't take up intelligent design, several members expect a battle over how evolution is treated in science textbooks, although that won't be up for debate until 2011. Mr. McLeroy and others say they'll push for books to include a more thorough examination of weaknesses in the theory of evolution.


Read it here.

   
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2007,16:07   

Quote

"When it comes to evolution, I am totally content with the current standard," he said, adding that his dissatisfaction with current biology textbooks is that they don't cover the weaknesses of the theory of evolution.. . .


How do people this slimy avoid slipping over and injuring themselves all the time?

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 25 2007,17:34   

We already have a topic on Texas textbook selection.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Patrickarbuthnot



Posts: 21
Joined: Feb. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,00:25   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Aug. 25 2007,17:34)
We already have a topic on Texas textbook selection.

I tried to post and couldn't. I would say my disagreement with this is not just in the state of Texas but the whole  public setting as well needs to be overhauled. We need to return to the proven educational methods and theories of the past. Stop lowering the educational bar for those who can't graduate and stop using textbooks which is basically a persons opinion on what the material is. They need them to read the original books themselves. Thank you

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Thomas Edison said: “The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.”

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,07:52   

McLeroy is lying to the press.  He does want creationism taught in classrooms.  He has totally ignored many of the suggestions of the experts (teachers and scientists) who wrote the standards.

He's also a revisionist historian.  He thinks that Joe McCarthy is a great American hero.

I apologize for my state, which I love, I just hate the idiots that are in charge of it.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Patrickarbuthnot



Posts: 21
Joined: Feb. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 25 2010,23:17   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 25 2010,07:52)
McLeroy is lying to the press.  He does want creationism taught in classrooms.  He has totally ignored many of the suggestions of the experts (teachers and scientists) who wrote the standards.

He's also a revisionist historian.  He thinks that Joe McCarthy is a great American hero.

I apologize for my state, which I love, I just hate the idiots that are in charge of it.

education should teach students the facts, provides them with logical tools to use those facts and perfect the student’s ability to relate those facts to others. However,  the process of teaching students to think extends far beyond filling their heads with knowledge. Like I said we need to return to the old system of learning and make student excel and not reward poor education.

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Thomas Edison said: “The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.”

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2010,13:50   

Quote (Patrickarbuthnot @ Feb. 25 2010,23:17)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 25 2010,07:52)
McLeroy is lying to the press.  He does want creationism taught in classrooms.  He has totally ignored many of the suggestions of the experts (teachers and scientists) who wrote the standards.

He's also a revisionist historian.  He thinks that Joe McCarthy is a great American hero.

I apologize for my state, which I love, I just hate the idiots that are in charge of it.

education should teach students the facts, provides them with logical tools to use those facts and perfect the student’s ability to relate those facts to others. However,  the process of teaching students to think extends far beyond filling their heads with knowledge. Like I said we need to return to the old system of learning and make student excel and not reward poor education.

That's one reason I quit teaching.  After I got 'a talking to' by the principle about teaching evolution, I had to explain to her that evolution is a standard that we are required by the state to teach.

I had too many grades changed after the fact to deal with it any more.  The complaints raised to the Texas school board gained my school a 'conservetor' which basically was a non-voting member of the school board for 18 months.  Yep, that helped a bunch.

I was really pissed when one of the smartest kids I know was denied entrance to UT, but our star running back who had a straight 'D' average got a full ride scholarship to UT.  Then flunked out in his second semester and was drafted to Cincinati (I think).  The smart kid?  He's Best Buy geek Squad kid because he's having to pay for his mother's lack of welfare.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Patrickarbuthnot



Posts: 21
Joined: Feb. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2010,23:14   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 26 2010,13:50)
Quote (Patrickarbuthnot @ Feb. 25 2010,23:17)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 25 2010,07:52)
McLeroy is lying to the press.  He does want creationism taught in classrooms.  He has totally ignored many of the suggestions of the experts (teachers and scientists) who wrote the standards.

He's also a revisionist historian.  He thinks that Joe McCarthy is a great American hero.

I apologize for my state, which I love, I just hate the idiots that are in charge of it.

education should teach students the facts, provides them with logical tools to use those facts and perfect the student’s ability to relate those facts to others. However,  the process of teaching students to think extends far beyond filling their heads with knowledge. Like I said we need to return to the old system of learning and make student excel and not reward poor education.

That's one reason I quit teaching.  After I got 'a talking to' by the principle about teaching evolution, I had to explain to her that evolution is a standard that we are required by the state to teach.

I had too many grades changed after the fact to deal with it any more.  The complaints raised to the Texas school board gained my school a 'conservetor' which basically was a non-voting member of the school board for 18 months.  Yep, that helped a bunch.

I was really pissed when one of the smartest kids I know was denied entrance to UT, but our star running back who had a straight 'D' average got a full ride scholarship to UT.  Then flunked out in his second semester and was drafted to Cincinati (I think).  The smart kid?  He's Best Buy geek Squad kid because he's having to pay for his mother's lack of welfare.

Unfortunately that is but one subject. The WHOLE education system needs a overhaul.

--------------
Thomas Edison said: “The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.”

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 26 2010,23:22   

Could not agree more.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Dr.GH



Posts: 1954
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,10:44   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 26 2010,21:22)
Could not agree more.

Here is a reading list:

Education Hell: Rhetoric vs. Reality
Gerald W. Bracey

Republican Gomorrah: Inside the Movement that Shattered the Party
Max Blumenthal

Grading Education: Getting Accountability Right
Richard Rothstein, et al

Accountability Frankenstein: Understanding and Taming the Monster (PB)
Sherman; Dorn

Collateral Damage: How High-Stakes Testing Corrupts America's Schools
Sharon L. Nichols; David C. Berliner

Standardized Minds: The High Price of America's Testing Culture and What We Can Do to Change It
Peter Sacks

The Case Against Standardized Testing: Raising the Scores, Ruining the Schools
Alfie Kohn, Lois Bridges

Measuring Up: What Educational Testing Really Tells Us
Daniel Koretz

Making the Grades: My Misadventures in the Standardized Testing Industry
Todd Farley

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
ck1



Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,12:07   

Quote
. . . And while the board apparently won't take up intelligent design, several members expect a battle over how evolution is treated in science textbooks, although that won't be up for debate until 2011. Mr. McLeroy and others say they'll push for books to include a more thorough examination of weaknesses in the theory of evolution.


Do these people ever provide a list of the "weaknesses" of the ToE they wish to include in science classes?

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,20:26   

Quote (ck1 @ Feb. 27 2010,12:07)
Quote
. . . And while the board apparently won't take up intelligent design, several members expect a battle over how evolution is treated in science textbooks, although that won't be up for debate until 2011. Mr. McLeroy and others say they'll push for books to include a more thorough examination of weaknesses in the theory of evolution.


Do these people ever provide a list of the "weaknesses" of the ToE they wish to include in science classes?

The people involved don't know anything about science.  All they know is that "evilution = hate jeebus"

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Texas Teach



Posts: 1016
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2010,22:32   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 27 2010,20:26)
Quote (ck1 @ Feb. 27 2010,12:07)
Quote
. . . And while the board apparently won't take up intelligent design, several members expect a battle over how evolution is treated in science textbooks, although that won't be up for debate until 2011. Mr. McLeroy and others say they'll push for books to include a more thorough examination of weaknesses in the theory of evolution.


Do these people ever provide a list of the "weaknesses" of the ToE they wish to include in science classes?

The people involved don't know anything about science.  All they know is that "evilution = hate jeebus"

I encounter that quite a bit with my students.  They really haven't been taught creationism; you rarely get more than a "why are there still monkeys?" argument on the details.  They've just been taught that it's Jesus or evolution, and since they know nothing about evolution, it's an easy choice for them to make.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
Patrickarbuthnot



Posts: 21
Joined: Feb. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2010,03:02   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Feb. 27 2010,22:32)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Feb. 27 2010,20:26)
Quote (ck1 @ Feb. 27 2010,12:07)
 
Quote
. . . And while the board apparently won't take up intelligent design, several members expect a battle over how evolution is treated in science textbooks, although that won't be up for debate until 2011. Mr. McLeroy and others say they'll push for books to include a more thorough examination of weaknesses in the theory of evolution.


Do these people ever provide a list of the "weaknesses" of the ToE they wish to include in science classes?

The people involved don't know anything about science.  All they know is that "evilution = hate jeebus"

I encounter that quite a bit with my students.  They really haven't been taught creationism; you rarely get more than a "why are there still monkeys?" argument on the details.  They've just been taught that it's Jesus or evolution, and since they know nothing about evolution, it's an easy choice for them to make.

Critical thinking must be re introduced back into school or else why teach anything?

--------------
Thomas Edison said: “The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.”

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2010,07:49   

Quote (Patrickarbuthnot @ Feb. 28 2010,03:02)
Critical thinking must be re introduced back into school or else why teach anything?

When was it taken out, would you say?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2010,07:53   

Quote (Patrickarbuthnot @ Feb. 28 2010,04:02)
Critical thinking must be re introduced back into school or else why teach anything?

We must also reacquaint our children with the value of joy through work.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2010,08:24   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 28 2010,07:49)
Quote (Patrickarbuthnot @ Feb. 28 2010,03:02)
Critical thinking must be re introduced back into school or else why teach anything?

When was it taken out, would you say?

To be honest, I don't think it was ever really a part of school.  I never had any when I was in school (80s).  My favorite line is that I learned to think in spite of school, not because of it.

There's a significant portion of the (student) population that is actually offended if they are required to think.  Regurgitation is the rule and it's hard to get past that.

I know what people say about standardized testing, but since I work in that industry, I'll say that it can be a good thing.  The problem is that many states reject test questions that they think the kids can't answer.  The state I work for (No, I won't say which one) is really good about letting some really difficult, thinking questions through.  IMHO, they are doing pretty well.  Some other states... I wouldn't move there for love or money.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Texas Teach



Posts: 1016
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2010,21:34   

To illustrate what we're up against:

A student asked me today if you could fly high enough into the sky to reach heaven.  The student was 16.  And pregnant.

On the plus side, some of the other students jumped in to explain to her that, you know, space is up there.  We send people there occasionally.

I'm not sure whether to take away hope or despair from this.

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
Henry J



Posts: 4048
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 01 2010,22:12   

You should have asked if the tower of Babel was high enough to reach the cruising altitude of airliners. ;)

Henry

  
Patrickarbuthnot



Posts: 21
Joined: Feb. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,04:53   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 28 2010,07:49)
Quote (Patrickarbuthnot @ Feb. 28 2010,03:02)
Critical thinking must be re introduced back into school or else why teach anything?

When was it taken out, would you say?

I would venture to say the turn of the 20th century. It's been down hill since then.

--------------
Thomas Edison said: “The doctor of the future will give no medicine, but will interest her or his patients in the care of the human frame, in a proper diet, and in the cause and prevention of disease.”

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,05:00   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Mar. 01 2010,21:34)
To illustrate what we're up against:

A student asked me today if you could fly high enough into the sky to reach heaven.  The student was 16.  And pregnant.

On the plus side, some of the other students jumped in to explain to her that, you know, space is up there.  We send people there occasionally.

I'm not sure whether to take away hope or despair from this.

Well, you can take away hope because Don McElroy has lost the Republican primary to represent District 9 on the State Board of Education.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,06:39   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2010,05:00)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Mar. 01 2010,21:34)
To illustrate what we're up against:

A student asked me today if you could fly high enough into the sky to reach heaven.  The student was 16.  And pregnant.

On the plus side, some of the other students jumped in to explain to her that, you know, space is up there.  We send people there occasionally.

I'm not sure whether to take away hope or despair from this.

Well, you can take away hope because Don McElroy has lost the Republican primary to represent District 9 on the State Board of Education.

Cool! I put that on my blog.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
midwifetoad



Posts: 3553
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,09:20   

No better way to end the textbook fracas than to unelect the creationists.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1954
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,09:27   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2010,03:00)
Well, you can take away hope because Don McElroy has lost the Republican primary to represent District 9 on the State Board of Education.

That is good news.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3553
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,09:32   

McElroy or McLeroy?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,09:39   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 03 2010,09:32)
McElroy or McLeroy?

:angry: THIS IS YOU



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1954
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,10:38   

In the other Republican races:

Bob Craig, R-Lubbock, opposed by the religious right, defeated their candidate Randy Rives: 75,951 votes (64.28%) to 42,195 (35.71%)

Religious extremist Cynthia Dunbar recruited Brian Russell to carry on the creationist cause. He lost in a three way race to Marsha Farney.  Farney is a middle school counselor, PhD, U of Texas, and not apparently a creationist.

Incumbent Ken Mercer, faced Tim Tuggey. Mercer won easily, the only clear win for the religious radicals. 75,369 (69.13%) to 33,649 (30.86%).

Incumbent Geraldine “Tincy” Miller, lost to George Clayton. Both call themselves conservatives, but Miller was not a safe vote for the radical religious right.  Clayton  is the Academic Coordinator for North Dallas High School. He seems to be similar to Miller- more pro-teacher in fact.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,11:10   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 03 2010,10:38)
Incumbent Geraldine “Tincy” Miller, lost to George Clayton. Both call themselves conservatives, but Miller was not a safe vote for the radical religious right.  Clayton  is the Academic Coordinator for North Dallas High School. He seems to be similar to Miller- more pro-teacher in fact.

I dunno about Clayton. According to this article, Clayton said
Quote
"It's seems to me you can't be taught the one [evolution] without the other [creationism]. It's an impossibility to talk about evolution without mentioning creationism."


--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,11:21   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 03 2010,10:00)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Mar. 01 2010,21:34)
To illustrate what we're up against:

A student asked me today if you could fly high enough into the sky to reach heaven.  The student was 16.  And pregnant.

On the plus side, some of the other students jumped in to explain to her that, you know, space is up there.  We send people there occasionally.

I'm not sure whether to take away hope or despair from this.

Well, you can take away hope because Don McElroy has lost the Republican primary to represent District 9 on the State Board of Education.

Let joy be unconfined.

Hurrah!

Louis

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Bye.

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1954
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 03 2010,12:16   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Mar. 03 2010,09:10)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 03 2010,10:38)
Incumbent Geraldine “Tincy” Miller, lost to George Clayton. Both call themselves conservatives, but Miller was not a safe vote for the radical religious right.  Clayton  is the Academic Coordinator for North Dallas High School. He seems to be similar to Miller- more pro-teacher in fact.

I dunno about Clayton. According to this article, Clayton said  
Quote
"It's seems to me you can't be taught the one [evolution] without the other [creationism]. It's an impossibility to talk about evolution without mentioning creationism."

OH NOOES

Shit!

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
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