Joined: Sep. 2009
|Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 29 2011,11:53)|
|Quote (Robin @ Nov. 29 2011,10:08)|
|Quote (Ftk @ Nov. 29 2011,09:39)|
|Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 28 2011,18:13)|
|So, I wandered over to Pharyngula to see if Bunnygate had reached it's denouement, when what should I spy on the front page but a post about the controversy in Kansas where Governor Brownback came down on a high school student who tweeted unfavorably out him, Sam Brownback: #heblowsalot.|
And, what should I find 3 comments in?
Janine, Clueless And Reactionary As Ever, OM, says:
28 November 2011 at 2:05 pm
Sam Brownback: #heblowsalot.
So, homophobic imagery is alright as long as it goes against a wannabe theocrat?
The first thing that came to mind was this Onion article.
Just for the record on this...my opinion (not that it matters). I think the Brownback team should have just ignored this completely, or maybe Brownback could have talked to the girl himself privately without any public attention given.
But, if this had been my kid and he wrote something that rude, and it was brought to my attention as well as the whole country, I'd have suggested he get his fanny back on that tweet and offer an apology for the way it was stated. Then he could politely voice his opinions as to why he didn't back Brownback. I'd do that even if it were PZ he was slamming. Children should be taught respect...we all turn into ass holes soon enough. Gotta at least try to instill them with some kind of morals.
When I read or hear declaration like, "children should be taught respect" my immediate reaction is, "why?" More precisely, who exactly is entitled to respect in the absence of behavior that earns respect.
I'll say here and now, I do NOT respect institutions or titles. I respect people who earn respect through their actions. Brownbeck is not worthy of any respect as far as I can tell, but I found the actions of Emma Sullivan more than admirable. I respect her (see what I did there?) for her critical thinking skills and for standing up for her actual rights. Brownbeck could actually learn a thing or two from Ms. Sullivan.
|I believe children raised without learning respect will have a hard time in the work force as well as life in general unless they are being raised to be a shock jock or a PZ Myers. I also think that Emma, her Mother and even you don't really think this is appropriate behavior if you stop for a minute and really analyze the situation. |
The problem with belief is that it does not necessarily match reality. What you believe about children raised without learning respect is irrelevant to me. What you know about it would be of interest to me, but I don't think you've actually studied the subject. The fact is, children raised to think critically do just fine in the working world without having the concept of respect for institutions or titles drilled into them.
As for whether I think Ms. Sullivan's behavior was appropriate - that's rather irrelevant considering the circumstances. Expressing one's opinion to one's peers in a (supposedly) private tweet is highly appropriate. Standing up for one's right to freely express such an opinion to one's friends is also appropriate. Do I agree with her choice of words? Not really, but then I'm not a tone troll. My opinion regarding her words makes zero difference given the bigger issue.
|I can't imagine her talking to Brownback like that in person, and if she did, she'd be looked down upon by even those who back her. It's the disrespectful words she used...the tone in that tweet. Lots of people don't agree with their bosses...may even dislike them, but you show respect. You don't see the Presidential candidates using that tone/verbiage when debating their opponents. It doesn't work in the real world. People must show respect even for those they completely disagree with.|
See above. She wasn't tweeting Brownbeck; she was expressing her opinion to her 60 followers. That Brownbeck's staff spent energy spying on her tweets is their problem with respect, not hers.
As for respecting bosses simply because they are bosses...pass. I have no qualms about letting someone know when I think he or she is making a bad decision or just being dumb. I don't care if it's my boss or not.
|Flip the card...if my son tweeted that to a liberal or shared his views on homosexuality, but used nasty adjectives, people would be appalled as well...even you.|
Once again for reading comprehension - Ms. Sullivan did not send the tweet to Brownbeck; she was tweeting for her friends.
Further, I'll bet your son has said some nasty things about people to his friends. Know what? I could care less. I think he should be able to do so and if someone intentionally eavesdrops and gets offended, that's the eavesdroppers problem.
|That's what is so interesting about this PZ issue you're all talking about. PZ is blatantly disrespectfully, nasty and hateful to anyone who disagrees with him. I have no idea what that shop owner heard at that meeting, but if it was anything even remotely similar to the stuff that is found on PZ's blog, I'm sure the man was probably shocked beyond belief. |
What's funny is that the shop owner was making a stand against what he thought was wrong. He obviously didn't want those type of people with their views and anger visiting his shop. By closing shop to them, shouldn't PZ be applauding him? ..showing blatant disrespect for a group of people he believes are WRONG. That's the kind of thing PZ preaches daily. This shop owner actually does it, but since the shoe is on the other foot, PZ demonizes him.
I fully agree. Further, I happen to respect the man for his actions and apology and I disagree with PZ Myers view on the subject.
|Personally, I think there may be something mentally wrong with PZ that he can't see his horrific hypocrisy.|
Don't know, but I'm betting not. I think he's just very passionate about his opinions given the behavior he's encountered on the other side of the fence.
|Interestingly, Brownback et. al apologized to Emma. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/28/emma-sullivan-receives-ap_n_1116945.html|
True, but unlike the shop owner, Brownbeck apologized after seeing the firestorm that his staff created. I find his apology hollow.
|Personally, like I said above, the whole thing was probably blown out of proportion, but still...we DO need to teach our children respect and how they should treat others regardless as to whether they agree with them or not.|
As my posts above indicate, I disagree.
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. Bilbo
The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis