RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

    
  Topic: Defaulted IDist promises< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Tom Ames



Posts: 238
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2004,22:16   

In the spirit of Rafe Gutman's catalog of IDist misrepresentations, I'd like to start a thread to catalog IDist promises of forthcoming material: books, research results, etc.

It would be useful to check up on the status of these as time goes by. Also, if a promise is made, it would nice to let the promiser know that his words have been logged over here.

--------------
-Tom Ames

  
Tom Ames



Posts: 238
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 07 2004,22:25   

Promise #1: Significant research results coming out of the 2002 RAPID conference.

Date of promise: 10/28/2002

Maker of promise: "Principle of Least Action" (ARN)

Status of promise: UNFULFILLED


Archive of relevant portion of thread:
Code Sample

Principle of Least Action
Member # 142
 posted 10-28-2002 06:09 PM                    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apt asked:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PLA, are you referring to the secret research and publications that "are out there"? I am not aware of any research being conducted on ID. Are you aware of any?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes.

But I'm not in a position to talk about it here. I've said that previously, Apt. The interest in ID research (BTW, I'm not attributing this to you, Apt) exhibited by many ID critics is roughly akin to that displayed by the Wolf, re Grandma's whereabouts, in the Little Red Riding Hood story.

In other words: let's eat (kill) this before it gets away.

[ 10-28-2002, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: Principle of Least Action ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 663 | Registered: May 2000  |  

aptamer
Member # 810
 posted 10-28-2002 06:10 PM                    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Principle of Least Action:

From all reports, the RAPID meeting was very exciting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Any original experimental work reported at the meeting?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1852 | From: B.C. Canada | Registered: May 2002  |

charlie d
Member # 744
 posted 10-28-2002 06:14 PM                    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Principle of Least Action:
From all reports, the RAPID meeting was very exciting.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I see. So, ID research, secretly published under the pretense of mainstream research in major scientific journals is then presented, openly, at "restricted" ID meetings to which mainstream scientists, potentially critic of the ID approach, are not even allowed.

Now, that's a scientific evidence tsunami if I ever saw one! Thanks, PLA, for demonstrating the point.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posts: 1200 | Registered: Mar 2002  |  

Principle of Least Action
Member # 142
 posted 10-28-2002 06:15 PM                    
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apt asked:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Any original experimental work reported at the meeting?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes. Very careful work, with wide implications.

That's it for me in this thread.


Edited by Tom Ames on Feb. 07 2004,20:28

--------------
-Tom Ames

  
charlie d



Posts: 56
Joined: Oct. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2004,12:56   

Don't forget the Wedge document itself (my comments in CAPS):

"FIVE YEAR OBJECTIVES

1. A major public debate between design theorists and Darwinists (by 2003) [MAYBE - THE AMNH DEBATE]

2. Thirty published books on design and its cultural implications (sex, gender issues, medicine, law, and religion) [MAYBE]

3. One hundred scientific, academic and technical articles by our fellows  [JUST EXACTLY 100 ARTICLES SHORT ON THIS ONE]

4. Significant coverage in national media:

Cover story on major news magazine such as Time or Newsweek [NOPE]
PBS show such as Nova treating design theory fairly [NOPE]
Regular press coverage on developments in design theory [WHICH DEVELOPMENTS? NOPE]
Favorable op-ed pieces and columns on the design movement by 3rd party media [YES, I GUESS, DUE TO THEIR ACTIVIST BASE]

5. Spiritual & cultural renewal:

Mainline renewal movements begin to appropriate insights from design theory, and to repudiate theologies influenced by materialism [I HAVE NO CLUE ABOUT THIS ONE]
Major Christian denomination(s) defend(s) traditional doctrine of creation & repudiate(s)
Darwinism [NOPE]
Seminaries increasingly recognize & repudiate naturalistic presuppositions [NO CLUE]
Positive uptake in public opinion polls on issues such as sexuality, abortion and belief in God [I DOUBT IT]
6. Ten states begin to rectify ideological imbalance in their science curricula & include design theory [NOPE]

7. Scientific achievements:

An active design movement in Israel, the UK and other influential countries outside the US [NOPE]
Ten CRSC Fellows teaching at major universities [NOT SURE - THEY HAVE RECRUITED SEVERAL NEW FELLOWS THOUGH]
Two universities where design theory has become the dominant view [PERHAPS WHERE IT HAS REPLACED TRADITIONAL CREATIONISM, EG BIOLA, CERTAINLY NOT BY DISPLACING MAINSTREAM EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY]
Design becomes a key concept in the social sciences [I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IT]
Legal reform movements base legislative proposals on design theory [NOT SURE WHAT THEY MEAN]"

  
Tom Ames



Posts: 238
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 12 2004,20:29   

Here's a good one: not quite a promise, but more of a hilariously cocky prediction. We look forward to seeing the proposal. Which program do you suppose it was submitted to?

Promise #3:
Quote

"I predict that in the next five years intelligent design will be sufficiently developed to deserve funding from the National Science Foundation."


Date of promise: 1998

Maker of promise: WAD, Mere Creation p.29

Status of promise: Oh, get REAL!

(Thanks to two sharp-eyed contributors for this one!;))

Edited by Tom Ames on Feb. 12 2004,18:30

--------------
-Tom Ames

  
Bebbo



Posts: 161
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2004,18:02   

Quote (charlie d @ Feb. 12 2004,12:56)
Don't forget the Wedge document itself (my comments in CAPS):

"FIVE YEAR OBJECTIVES

1. A major public debate between design theorists and Darwinists (by 2003) [MAYBE - THE AMNH DEBATE]

2. Thirty published books on design and its cultural implications (sex, gender issues, medicine, law, and religion) [MAYBE]

3. One hundred scientific, academic and technical articles by our fellows  [JUST EXACTLY 100 ARTICLES SHORT ON THIS ONE]

4. Significant coverage in national media:

Cover story on major news magazine such as Time or Newsweek [NOPE]
PBS show such as Nova treating design theory fairly [NOPE]
[...]



Didn't PBS show "Unlocking the Mystery of Life"?

--
Dene

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4504
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2004,05:53   

Quote

PBS show such as Nova treating design theory fairly [NOPE]
[...]



Didn't PBS show "Unlocking the Mystery of Life"?


Some PBS affiliates did show UML, but UML was produced independently by Illustra Media (essentially a corporate pseudonym for Coldwater Media). Nova and other PBS-produced shows have not yet taken up ID as a topic. Of course, ID was treated pretty fairly in the "Evolution" series. Except, of course, that ID advocates don't mean "fairly" when they say "fairly"; they mean "credulously".

Wesley

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Bebbo



Posts: 161
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 15 2004,07:03   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Feb. 15 2004,05:53)
Quote

PBS show such as Nova treating design theory fairly [NOPE]
[...]



Didn't PBS show "Unlocking the Mystery of Life"?


Some PBS affiliates did show UML, but UML was produced independently by Illustra Media (essentially a corporate pseudonym for Coldwater Media). Nova and other PBS-produced shows have not yet taken up ID as a topic. Of course, ID was treated pretty fairly in the "Evolution" series. Except, of course, that ID advocates don't mean "fairly" when they say "fairly"; they mean "credulously".

Wesley

I thought that Illustra Media was just a front company of Discovery Media which produces overtly Christian material. Curiously the Discovery Media website has now shut down.

--
Dene

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4504
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 16 2004,22:50   

Oops. It's so hard to keep these religious media companies straight. Coldwater Media did the "Icons of Evolution" video.

IIRC.

Wesley

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
  7 replies since Feb. 07 2004,22:16 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

    


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]