Joined: Oct. 2005
My copy of that thread only has the comments up to yesterday morning, the first 17. I'm not sure if what mentok is referring to is in them or in the 9 comments I don't have. Here are the 17, perhaps someone can compare them with the current set.
Berg is in the tank for Hillary in case you didn’t know. This is half the DNC that still won’t give up. Hillary of course can’t be seen taking part in this.
Here’s how this plays out: if the court allows discovery and we find out soon, presuming Berg’s claims are correct, it hits the supreme court with lightning speed, Kennedy votes to uphold the constitution in a 5-4 decision, then Barack is out and Hillary is back in - even at this late date. Early votes and mail in ballots will have to be done over. Ballots will have to be reprinted. We’ll probably not know on Nov. 4th who won unless Hillary wins by a landslide. A landslide for Hillary is a distinct possibility IMO and a marginal win even more likely.
Hillary has way too many loyal supporters, tens and tens of millions, that there won’t be some large number of them pursuing this to a conclusion no matter how long it takes.
And look at the lawyer leading the charge - he was deputy attorney general of Pennsylvania, he was on the Democratic ticket for governor of PA, the US Senate, DNC party leader - for 3 decades he’s been a Democrat. He has connections to get this done. What’s Bill and Hillary been up to lately - haven’t seen them in the news much. Think they haven’t been watching this?
Break out those Hillary ‘08 buttons again, folks.
I almost forgot where the good conspiracy theory really starts.
Say Hillary is back on the Nov. 4th ballot and wins the election. Joe Biden, who’s been uncomfortable as VP, resigns after the election.
Section 2. Whenever there is a vacancy in the office of the Vice President, the President shall nominate a Vice President who shall take office upon confirmation by a majority vote of both Houses of Congress.
Hillary nominates Bill Clinton for VP. A congress with large democratic majority of course approves the nomination. Then Hillary resigns as president. Bill Clinton, who automatically assumes the presidency, is back in office for almost 4 years. The constitution only restricts a president from being elected more than two terms.
That then leaves a vacancy for vice president for Bill Clinton to nominate. None other than Al Gore.
Now THAT’S a proper conspiracy theory. :lol:
Are you kidding, or do you really think there is a conspiracy here?
Why not? Hillary could actually pick Al Gore for her VP before the election. Then Hillary resigns and Al Gore ends up getting the last laugh as the supreme court selects him for president just like they deselected him in 2004 2000. What could be more fair? More American? More dramatic? More entertaining?
Al Gore ‘09 for President!
If I had to have a Democrat in office, I would pick Hillary %100. And Dave, your scenario where Hillary resigns and gives the presidency to Bill is ludicrous. Don’t you know who wears the suit pants in that relationship?
The nominal answer is that Obama was born in Hawaii and thus is a citizen.
Followup Oct. 13, 2008, Attorney Philip J. Berg’s official website: ObamaCrimes.com
Court documents at:
Obama Is An Illegal Alien Philip J. Berg, Oct. 6, 2008
Why is the Certificate No. blotted out? And why wouldn’t Obama just show this to the judge and be done with it?
Websites decide federal court cases now?
Did you know that, at best, that birth certificate was printed in 2007 from information contained in an electronic database in Hawaii?
You’re quite computer literate. Tell me how hard it would be for someone to make or change an entry in that database that doesn’t reflect the vault original, even if a vault original exists?
Hawaii, by the way, is a blue state showing Obama leading in the straw poll by better than 70/30 (a 42 point lead) far, far greater than any other state in the union.
Why won’t Obama let anyone see the vault copy? What’s being hidden? Does the public have an ethical right to see it even if they have no legal right in Hawaii? Hawaii’s birth records, unlike almost every other state in my understanding, are not public information. Someone will probably sue Hawaii next under the federal open records act.
Obviously the Indonesia thing is not valid. What could be a real problem is if it turns out that Obama really was born in Kenya.
Dave, if Hawaii has different rules about birth certificates, couldn’t that be the reason he is having trouble producing it? Or maybe he thinks he has a right under Hawaiian law not to produce his birth certificate?
Send a Freedom Of Information Act Letter to Hawaii:
Mark Bennett, Attorney General
Department of the Attorney General
State of Hawaii
425 Queen Street
Honolulu, Hawaii 96813
Dear Mr. Bennett:
Barack Obama, as U.S. Senator of Illinois and the Democratic Nominee for President of the United States, is a public person, and his citizenship status is a matter of significant public concern and is subject to legitimate public scrutiny. The public interest in access to the requested information under the Freedom of Information Act 5 U.S.C. § 552 should be noted and honored.
This is a freedom of information act request for the original “vault” birth certificate of Barack Obama, born August 4, 1961. Because Mr. Obama is a public figure and because of the importance of this information to the public welfare the ordinary rules of confidentiality do not apply.
Rumor mill (unverified)
Kenyan birth certificate located.
Anne Baxter, the movie star, lived in Australia from 1961 to about 1964. She had at least one child while she lived here but the baby was not born in Australia. I remember it very well because her departure from our shores made the news. (Some people appear to have felt a bit slighted.) But Anne Baxter went back to the US to make sure that her child would be born in the US and therefore would be entitled to US citizenship. I just thought that was interesting, particularly given that Baxter was well over 21 at the time (b. 1923).
I deeply distrust Obama and would feel as though we’d all dodged a bullet if he were to be found ineligible for the office of POTUS. But I don’t understand this. He travels a lot. Doesn’t he have to have a passport for that? Wouldn’t he have to produce his US birth certificate, complete with seal and signature, to obtain a US passport?
William J. Murray
Quote: “Obviously the Indonesia thing is not valid.”
Why is this not valid? If his father got Obama legal citizenship in Indonesia - which he had to do to get him into any school - then Obama cannot be anything other than a naturalized citizen, even if he was originally born in the USA. That’s the law.
William J. Murray
As far as this being a win for Hillary if true, I hardly think so. I think it would be the end of the Democratic party as we know it, because they and Hillary would be seen as part and parcel of the conspiracy to keep this information from the public. It would devastate the party beyond repair, IMO.
If he was born in the US, I’d think it would be much easier for him to make a legal case that he’s at least eligible for POTUS. Remember he’s probably been preparing a legal defense for over a decade. He had to know this was coming. Also most Americans would think that if he was born here, than his citizenship is being attacked on a legal technicality and would probably support him. He could at least claim to have been honest about himself.
On the other hand, if he really was born in Kenya, that’s a silver bullet. Not only did he lie, but he’s not a “natural born citizen” as the Constitution requires. That is a very simple issue, and simplicity is all important to the public. Can’t get a better sound byte than this: Obama lied about his place of birth to cover up the fact that he’s ineligible to be POTUS. Game over.
He doesn’t have to produce an original 1961 birth certificate to get a passport. The certification of birth, which isn’t a birth certificate, that Hawaii prints out on request from information contained in an electronic database, is sufficient for most legal purposes. However, interestingly enough, it isn’t sufficient in Hawaii to prove you have at least 50% native-Hawaiian bloodline to qualify for assistance programs offered only to native-Hawaiians. To do that requires that you pay a fee to the Dept. of Health (DOH) to get a photocopy of your original (called a “vault” certificate) birth certificate filled out by a hospital at time of birth. It’s the vault certificate that, among other documentation like passports and school records, that the Berg suit seeks to obtain in the discovery process. Only Obama volunteering or a compelling court order can get a copy of the original BC out of the vault in Hawaii.
Common thinking is with you in regards to this being a disaster for the Democratic party if Obama has to be pulled off the ballot in the 12th hour and Hillary replacing him. I’m not so sure about that. Women voters who might’ve voted McCain/Palin will flock back to Hillary in droves. Offsetting that is some number of disaffected black voters who won’t turn out to vote. The black vote is as critical for democrats (in recent elections the black vote is 90%+ for democrats) as the religious right vote is critical for republicans. The DNC will of course get beaten to a pulp for failing to properly vet the candidates (this BC problem was brought to their attention long before the primary ended) and the mainstream media will get a beat down for pointedly ignoring the issue (MSM has also been aware of the issue for a long time).
Public support, or lack thereof, for letting Obama avoid the constitutional requirements of POTUS or citizenship is not an issue. The legislature can’t make exceptions to the constitution on a whim and the judiciary is duty bound by sworn oath to uphold the constitution. If Obama refuses to come clean long enough it ultimately goes to SCOTUS where 9 justices decide on the constitutionality. Consulting with a constitutional attorney I’m informed that SCOTUS will probably be 4 conservatives upholding the constitution, 4 liberals giving Obama a get out of jail free card, and Justice Kennedy (who swings both ways) being the tie breaker. If the evidence is very clear that Obama is not legally a natural-born citizen Kennedy is more likely to uphold the constitution. If it’s hazy he might go the other way. Obama needs to do the right thing and start cooperating with record requests instead of trying to lawyer his way around it and possibly causing great harm to our nation by dragging his feet past the point of no return.
In any case, if McCain is polling behind Obama in the final week before Nov. 4th, they’re likely going to blast Obama’s refusal to provide the public with school records, birth certificates, and passport and foreign travel history among other things across every television screen in every battleground state. Rumor has it the RNC has documented proof that Obama isn’t qualified but they’re keeping it to themselves as long as possible and hopefully forever but not if that means losing the election. It’s their ace-in-the-hole to be turned over only if absolutely necessary. If that’s enough to lose Obama the election a constitutional crisis will be averted but Obama still might lose his senate seat if he isn’t at least a legally naturalized citizen. Berg intends on pursuing Obama beyond the POTUS election no matter how the election falls out. If Obama wins then we have a huge constitutional crisis on our hands that, coupled with Russian military aggression and a financial crisis, will cripple the United States’ ability to deal with these matters. Now more than just about anytime in history we need a clean election and a smooth transition of executive power. Obama is clearly willing to risk disasterous consequences for the nation in his quest for the power of the bully pulpit.
William J. Murray wrote:
|As far as this being a win for Hillary if true, I hardly think so. I think it would be the end of the Democratic party as we know it, because they and Hillary would be seen as part and parcel of the conspiracy to keep this information from the public.|
Perhaps. I wouldn’t underestimate The Pantsuited Empress though. I would’ve thought the biggest barrier to her walking into the Oval Office was Obama’s name being on the ballot, but like we’ve seen in examples like the Torricelli/Lautenberg case, electoral procedure can be mere formality to those who want power badly enough.