RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (500) < ... 65 66 67 68 69 [70] 71 72 73 74 75 ... >   
  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,14:05   

Quote (dvunkannon @ Sep. 29 2008,12:23)
Paul Nelson
finds the most relevant issue in the Explore Evolution review, a flub of reflexin for relaxin.

That's quite some slimy scumbaggery there.

  
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,14:16   

Most of us gave Paul the benefit of the doubt for a while because he acts all nice and interested in debate, but after a while his dishonest behavior shines through.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3607
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,14:18   

Is that Patrick Behe responding in defence of Michael?

--------------
Ēletís not make a joke of ourselves.Ē

Pat Robertson

  
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,14:18   

The problem a lot of christians have with ID is that it's nothing more than creationism plus lies.

   
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,14:30   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 29 2008,14:16)
Most of us gave Paul the benefit of the doubt for a while because he acts all nice and interested in debate, but after a while his dishonest behavior shines through.

I believe the moment he lost his credibility with me was when he said words to the effect of 'JUST because a creationist MAY have used an argument in the past, means that WE can't use the same one. There's no RULE against it'.

This was his appalling justification for Explore Evolution being full of near nothing BUT creationist antievolution propaganda, under the guise of inquiry-based learning. And I realised then that this was basically a politely-voiced 'fuck you' to me, to honesty, to parents, and to the children that would be fed this propaganda.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,19:22   

DaveScot:
† † † †
Quote
To XXXXXXís essential question: Where is the demonstration that ďItís possible for Darwinian processes to generate life of any order of complexityĒ?

A demonstration would show a practical possibility. If the science of intelligent design is correct such a demonstration is not practically possible.

Actually, this does not even logically follow. It would not follow from the conclusion that some organic forms are designed that all such forms are designed.

Worse, Dave has once again smuggled his conclusion into his premise. Dave argues that there is no practical demonstration of Darwinian or other natural processes originating and elaborating complex life. I maintain that life on earth is that demonstration. Dave may disagree, but he can't cite his a prior assumption that only intelligent agents generate complexity as evidence for that same assumption. Once again, whether evolutionary or other natural processes can originate life is an empirical question. And, once again, IDC theory has nothing to contribute to the resolution of that empirical question, nor any other empirical question. †

Once again, he's barefoot in the same bucket of shit.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Skullboy



Posts: 24
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,21:36   

More on DaveScot and his theoretical and practical possibilities:

† †  
Quote
There is a finite chance an adult human with a lifetime of memories could materialize out of nothing in a single quantum fluctuation of a huge number of particles. In an infinite universe it isnít just possible that will happen, itís inevitable. Everything mechanically possible has 100% probability of happening in an infinite universe.


This is stoned college student crap. The idea that an infinite universe would realize every possibility is a very finite conception of infinity.

I think he's been corrected on this before. He just likes how lofty it sounds so he keeps repeating it. Some of the commenters try to correct him. Most of them seem like they're walking on egg shells as they do. I wonder why.

prhean says

† † †
Quote
Iíve never been one to buy in to that kind of logic, however commonly accepted it might be.


But Dave sets him straight.
† † †
Quote
It isnít logic. Itís law.


How am I ever going to get over this tard addiction when the shit is just this good?

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,22:11   

DaveScot invents yet another law of physics:
 
Quote
5
DaveScot
09/29/2008
2:32 pm
prhean


...It isnít logic. Itís law.

The fundamental laws of physics are arenít derived from logical necessity and neither will they rearrange themselves via logical necessity. They are what they are and are derived by observation and experiment.

So, through replicable observation and experimentation DaveScot has demonstrated that in infinite universes everything that can happen does happen? Hey Dave, What's your n? What finite universes served as your controls? What was your research budget?

Obviously, what you want to say is that it isn't law, it's logical necessity. Of the stoner variety.

*Whoa...they call these fingers, but I've never seen them fing.*

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
sparc



Posts: 1735
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,22:49   

Quote
Paul, looking at Schwabe's papers on relaxin, how do you deal with that 500 million year figure in this one of Schwabe's publications???
Paul A. Nelson on ICSD: † † †
Quote
As an undergraduate, I beganUnfortunately reading Schwabe's work on anomalies in the distribution of the hormone relaxin, and then moved on to his discussions of the historical topology of life.
Since he moved on he missed a reply to Schwabe in the FASEB Journal †I had the pleasure to co-author: Does a "500-million-year old" hormone disprove Darwin?
Although †concerns about Schabe's Ciona work came up instantly the flaws in his experimental work could satisfactorily shown only after the Ciona intestinalis genome had been sequenced.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 29 2008,23:50   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....llyfish

Quote
29 September 2008
Tree of Life Gets Stung by Jellyfish
DaveScot

In yet another unexpected finding from the world of comparative genomics a gene that gives a jellyfish its sting is found all over the place. All sorts of explanations are flung at it. Horizontal gene transfer, vertical gene transfer, and convergent evolution were all run up the flagpole to see which garners more salutes. :roll:

Click the link below for a nice jellyfish picture and hotlinks in the references or just read the text below the fold.

Quote
   How the jellyfish got its sting

   From a bacterium, surprisingly.
   Amber Dance

   Jellyfish may owe thanks to a humble bacterium for their ability to sting prey. Scientists have found that one of the genes necessary for them to sting is similar to a gene in bacteria, suggesting the ancestors of jellyfish picked up the gene from microbes. The research is published this week in Current Biology[1].

   ďThe result was a great surprise,Ē says developmental biologist Nicolas Rabet of the Pierre and Marie Curie University in Paris, France, who led the team.

   ď[This kind of] horizontal gene transfer is often neglected, and could sometimes be more important than we thought.Ē Unlike vertical gene transfer from parent to offspring, the horizontal variety happens between organisms, or even between different species. Common in microbes, it has only been described a few times in animals. Japanese beetles have picked up sequences from a parasitic bacterium[2] and microscopic aquatic creatures called bdelloid rotifers have collected genes from bacteria, fungi and plants[3].

   The gene in question codes for a subunit of poly-gamma-glutamate (PGA) synthase - PGA itself is a major component of stinging cells[4]. The gene appears in all known genomes of creatures from the phylum cnidaria, which includes jellyfish, anemones and corals.

   By collecting positive ions, PGA allows the cells to regulate their osmotic pressure; a sudden change in that pressure launches a poisonous barb. In bacteria, the same compound can form a protective capsule. It also gives the fermented Japanese food natto its stringy texture and pungent aroma.[5]

   Using phylogenetic analysis, Rabet and his colleagues found that the cnidarian gene fits well into the bacterial family tree. They also showed that the gene turns on in at least one jellyfish, Clytia hemisphaerica. The same gene pops up in certain sponges, worms and fungi, suggesting it jumped between species more than once, the scientists say. It is not yet clear how the transfer might have occurred, or why this particular gene would be so well-travelled.

   Vertical or horizontal?

   ďI think the authorís interpretation is probably correct,Ē says Michael Syvanen, who studies comparative genomics at the University of California, Davis. However, he is not convinced that other possibilites can be ruled out.

   ďThere are other explanations for the incongruencies they see in the tree,Ē agrees Casey Dunn, an evolutionary biologist who studies phylogenetic problems at Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island.

   For instance, the gene could be vertically transferred from a distant progenitor, before being lost from some organisms. Or, it may be possible that more than one animal independently evolved the gene; such sequence conversion is not unheard of, Dunn says. ďAt the end of the day, it will probably take far more data to paint a conclusive picture of whatís happening.Ē

   Rabet responds that since the PGA synthase gene is approximately 1000 bases long, it is statistically unlikely to be the product of multiple distinct genes converging on the same sequence

   And if the gene was lost from all but the cnidarians and a few other animals, it must have disappeared from all related organisms. ďItís possible, but we need to imagine a lot of lost genes,Ē he says.

   Scientists are finding that horizontal gene transfer, once thought to be the domain of single-celled critters, is not uncommon in the animal world, says Syvanen. ďHorizontal gene transfer with the animals is going to turn out to be more widespread than anybody believes now. When that realization comes down, it will definitely change the way people think about evolution.Ē

   *
   References
   1. Denker, E., Bapteste, E., Le Guyader, H., Manuel, M. & Rabet, N. Current Biology 18, R858-R859 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
   2. Kondo, N., Nikoh, N., Ijichi, N., Shimada, M., & Fukastsu, T. Proc. Natl Acad. Sci. 99, 14280-14285 (2002). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
   3. Gladyshev, E. A., Meselson, M. & Arkhipova, I. R. Science 320, 1210-1213 (2008). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |
   4. Weber, J. J. Biol. Chem. 265, 9664-9669 (1990). | PubMed | ISI | ChemPort |
   5. Candela, T. & Fouet, A. Mol. Microbiol. 60, 1091-1098 (2006). | Article | PubMed | ChemPort |


Oh no! Scientists tried different explanations for something! Clearly they are facing Waterloo!

Now let's compare that to the ID research on Jellyfish:

Quote















that's what I thought.

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1686
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,00:50   

Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ Sep. 29 2008,14:30)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 29 2008,14:16)
Most of us gave Paul the benefit of the doubt for a while because he acts all nice and interested in debate, but after a while his dishonest behavior shines through.

I believe the moment he lost his credibility with me was when he said words to the effect of 'JUST because a creationist MAY have used an argument in the past, means that WE can't use the same one. There's no RULE against it'.

This was his appalling justification for Explore Evolution being full of near nothing BUT creationist antievolution propaganda, under the guise of inquiry-based learning. And I realised then that this was basically a politely-voiced 'fuck you' to me, to honesty, to parents, and to the children that would be fed this propaganda.

Which reminds me, John Timmer did an excellent multi-page review of "Explore Evolution" on "ars technica" last week and I forgot to post a link here.

The Link

He rather rips it a new anal orifice.  Very good job, John.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,01:06   

I recall remarking that before I swing a sword, I like to check to see if it's double-edged. Davetard does not bother with such sissy concerns.

John Wilkins says Davetard is Mistar Dummy!!!!111111111

   
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,01:07   

Oh noes that was Jon Lynch whatever all Jons look alike

   
Skullboy



Posts: 24
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,01:25   

Either Lynch or someone with the same idea placed a comment under that very article. The comment linked to a trend comparison of ID, evolution and GW. The comment is now gone. An Orwellian un-comment, if you will.

I didn't catch the handle.

Keeping complete track of the intellectual censorship over there would require a script that could just download the latest threads every minute or so and analyze the differences.

  
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,02:15   

You're right, the censorship there is more than any human can counteract. It takes a lot of effort for them to hide from reality.

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,05:50   

Never mind. †

Must not post before coffee.



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. †We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,13:06   

BTW, for Paul Nelson and all your other YEC friends, here's a special Happy New Year shout out! The world is officially 5769 years old today! W00T!!!!

--------------
Iím referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
Iím not an evolutionist, Iím a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,17:38   

DaveScot:
†  
Quote
Obama GPA LSAT Affirmative Action ?
DaveScot

Dear Senator Obama,

We wish to consider you for the position of President of the United States.

As part of our voter evaluation process we need to see your transcripts from Columbia University and Harvard Law School.

Please publish them as soon as possible.

Signed,

United States Electorate

Hey Dave, you forgot to request Obama's SAT scores, for Chrissakes. Plus a list of any new laws of physics he may have discovered. A written statement documenting his thoughts on Inuit women. His forays into dog dish oncology. A list of beaches on which he has awakened naked and hungover. All the plastic tanks he has programmed. His experience with praying marines. A transcript of his posts on udreamofjanie. A list of women he has called "morphodyke." His skill operating the loudspeaker in the ceiling...

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3607
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,17:49   

Are mignons allowed to operate the loudspeaker in the ceiling?

--------------
Ēletís not make a joke of ourselves.Ē

Pat Robertson

  
C.J.O'Brien



Posts: 395
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,17:51   

I'd kind of like to know, also: does Obama violate SLoT when he types?

ETA: dog-dish oncology? Do tell!

--------------
The is the beauty of being me- anything that any man does I can understand.
--Joe G

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,17:51   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Sep. 30 2008,17:38)
DaveScot:
† †
Quote
Obama GPA LSAT Affirmative Action ?
DaveScot

Dear Senator Obama,

We wish to consider you for the position of President of the United States.

As part of our voter evaluation process we need to see your transcripts from Columbia University and Harvard Law School.

Please publish them as soon as possible.

Signed,

United States Electorate

Hey Dave, you forgot to request Obama's SAT scores, for Chrissakes.

Well, it is actually nice to see Dave stretching himself beyond his core competency.   He has amply demonstrated his prodigious capabilities in the culture war. Don't be to harsh on his initial, feeble forays into class warfare.

P.S. Hey Dave, did you ever ask GWB for his GMAT score and application to Harvard Business School? He was a C average undergraduate and I've heard he got in under an affirmative action program for the dullard sons of powerful politicians.   ;)

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. †We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,18:09   

...his investigations into houseboat mushrooms. All banninations of his intellectual superiors. His thoughts on the man-bra. His skills with fuzzy-logic rice cookers. Any tingles he may feel upon confronting great music or great art. His experiences with narcissistic mania. And, above all, his struggles with clowns...

Has Barack Obama fled clowns?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,19:28   

Something tells me Dave has never asked a white candidate for those scores.

   
sparc



Posts: 1735
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,22:03   

Quote
The world is officially 5769 years old today!
Have you been there?

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
didymos



Posts: 1826
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 30 2008,23:53   

MatteoTard:
 
Quote

Matteo

09/30/2008

4:18 pm

ďHe was elected to be the first *black* president of the Harvard Law ReviewĒ

Iíd feel better if he were merely elected *president* of the Harvard Law Review. We are in an era of rampant affirmative action. This renders Obamaís presidency of the Law Review to be not much of an impressive resume point, at least in absence of any evidence about just what he achieved there.


It appears that since Obama just so happens to be black and in the absence of any evidence about just what he achieved there,†Matteo is inclined to think Obama is probably just a dumb n....., erm, "unqualified" minority hire. †I, uh, almost wrote something else, but I'd rather not jump to any conclusions about Matty there, what with the paucity of evidence and all that.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1826
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,00:01   

Bannination:

 
Quote

DaveScot

09/30/2008

10:49 pm

TomRiddle is no longer with us.


Fafarman reveals the foul crime:

 
Quote

Larry Fafarman
09/30/2008
11:40 pm

Dave,

I donít remember exactly what TomRiddle said but I donít remember it as being all that terrible. I think he was right ó you are politicizing this blog. The only thing about Obama that is relevant to this blog is his opposition to teaching the controversy.


Dave: proceed cautiously. †Banning the potentially axe-crazy guy could be trouble.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1994
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,00:46   

Dave didn't heed your warning
Quote
12

DaveScot

09/30/2008

10:49 pm

Tard Alert!

TomRiddle is no longer with us.
Larry Fafarman is in timeout, again. I felt bad that I was taking time away from his holocaust denial work on his own blog. He gets irritable when he doesnít get enough Jew-bashing time. I think he probably likes Osama because of Osamaís muslim background and connections.

I guess he edited his post.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,00:52   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....-296346

Quote


14

Sotto Voce

10/01/2008

12:21 am

Obama graduated from Harvard Law magna cum laude. As far as I know, they donít have affirmative action for honors. So even if it were the case that his admission to Harvard was based on affirmative action (which may well be true), he was clearly at least as intellectually equipped as most of his classmates.
In addition, it is possible that his race was a factor in his election to the presidency of the Harvard Law Review. But even considering that, itís still no mean achievement. Itís not like itís easy for a black man to be president of the HLR. It might be easier than it is for a white guy (although there is no evidence that this is true), but you still need to be exceptionally accomplished. If they were letting any chump head up the Law Review as long as he/she was black, I suspect we would see far more black presidents than we actually do.
Also, Laurence Tribe, an eminent constitutional law scholar at Harvard, said Obama was his best student ever. No doubt thereís some hyperbole here because he wants Obama to be President, but I donít think he would have said it if Obama hadnít been an impressive student.


How cute, Sotto voce actually thinks facts matter at UD....

   
stevestory



Posts: 9027
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,00:54   

and the next comment in that thread:
Quote


15

DaveScot

10/01/2008

12:39 am

...

If McCain canít outsmart an affirmative action poster child like Barky Obama I sure canít trust him to outsmart people like Vladimir Putin or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad either.


Did dave misspell "Darky"?

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1686
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 01 2008,01:17   

This may be off topic, but given Dave's interest in climate and weather, I think he should look at this article and I can't post on Uncommonly Dense to tell him.

Dave, check out Do Hurricanes Just Happen? by Jim Splif--er that is Jim Eliff. †Some highlights:

 
Quote
Though some postulate that hurricanes are spawned merely by natural causes, this answer is one "cause" too short. The Bible teaches they are first decreed by God.

God is at work doing His perfect will, even during hurricane season. These spinning engines of destruction originate from Him as Ruler (first cause), through nature (second cause), all for His purposes. Though God owes us no explanation, one or all of the following possible objectives may help us understand "why" God decrees such fear-producing events:


I'll let you read the reasons yourself. †

Moral: It stands to reason that if God is responsible for creating the hurricanes that have destroyed so much of your home state, he may also be creating the global warming that is going to turn the rest of it into a parched tinderbox. †If global warming IS God's will, then we should obviously not be fighting it because we'd be warring against God.

P.S. You may substitute "the Designer" for "God" in any of the above sentences if UD is still in denial.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
  14997 replies since July 17 2008,19:00 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (500) < ... 65 66 67 68 69 [70] 71 72 73 74 75 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]