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  Topic: Challenge to Evolutionists< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:32   

I have a very simple challenge to evolutionists.    

I challenge evolutionists to show me ONE mutation ever documented in the history of science that has created a new, beneficial, selectable morphological addition to an existing body part.    .    .    .    (a mutation that alters physical, outward appearance in a beneficial way. ) For example, the eye was said to have evolved by way of numerous mutations, each mutation adding on to what previous mutations (plus selection) had added before.  

Please keep in mind that there are mutations that duplicate existing structures, mutations that reduce existing structures, mutations that deform organisms, and mutations that cause disease and death.    .    .    .    Unfortunately for Darwinists, however, mutations can add nothing beneficial to the observable phenotype, which is the cornerstone of ToE.    

This is my claim. . this is my challenge. . . and this challenge has not yet been answered by anyone.    

Knowing this, it is my opinion that the theory of evolution is little more than a wacky metaphysical belief, much like astrology or palm reading.    

The floor is open!

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:39   

Who is to judge this challenge, and how do we know he/she is competent in biology?

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:41   

let's see what you got and we'll let the gods decide.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:43   

So you'll decide, and you have no expertise in biology, is that what you're saying?

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:48   

I don't need to be an expert in biology to know when the challenge has been met.  

Put it this way.....I'll beat you to it....in the following link a flea can generate a new spine for itself in the face of predators:

http://discovermagazine.com/2006/nov/cover  (pg.2)

"To the surprise of scientists, many environmentally induced changes turn out to be heritable. When exposed to predators, Daphnia water fleas grow defensive spines (right). The effect can last for several generations."

Perfect example....one problem though: no mutation.

I want you to show me that a mutation can either create a new, selectable part like that or a new modification that meets the criteria in my OP.

So there you have it...we can compare and contrast.

Go for it.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:54   

Inheritable traits...an IP address in Texas...

is this Davetard?

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:56   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 17 2007,22:54)
Inheritable traits...an IP address in Texas...

is this Davetard?

I don't know who that is...no.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:57   

(that should read 'inheritable changes' or the like)

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:59   

well while you're thinking..what do you think of this link?

http://www.junkdna.com/#genes_move_over

"Genes, move over. Ever since the early 1900s, biologists have thought about heredity primarily in terms of genes. Today, they often view genes as compact, information-laden gems hidden among billions of bases of junk DNA. But genes, it turns out, are neither compact nor uniquely important. According to a painstaking new analysis of 1% of the human genome, genes can be sprawling, with far-flung protein-coding and regulatory regions that overlap with other genes... [One can not help thinking about replacing the concept with FractoGene... - AJP]

Given the traditional gene-centric perspective, that finding "is going to be very disturbing to some people," says John Greally, a molecular biologist at Albert Einstein College of Medicine in New York City. On the other hand, says Francis Collins, director of the National Human Genome Research Institute (NHGRI) in Bethesda, Maryland, "we're beginning to understand the ground rules by which the genome functions."... [Indeed, alongside the $100 M to continue ENCODE, time is to establish, like the "Theoretical Neuroscience Program" with Neural Networks breaking through by the 1980's an "NIH PostGenetics Study Program" to head for algorithmic "ground rules" for genome functions - AJP]

When Alexandre Reymond, a medical geneticist at the University of Lausanne, Switzerland, and his colleagues took a close look at the 400 protein-coding genes contained in ENCODE's target DNA, they found additional exons--the regions that code for amino acids--for more than 80%. Many of these newfound exons were located thousands of bases away from the gene's previously known exons, sometimes hidden in another gene. Moreover, some mRNAs were derived from exons belonging to two genes, a finding, says Reymond, that "underscores that we have still not truly answered the question, 'What is a gene?' " In addition, further extending and blurring gene boundaries, ENCODE uncovered a slew of novel "start sites" for genes--the DNA sequences where transcription begins--many located hundreds of thousands of bases away from the known start sites.


[Those who thought the "ENCODE" only blew away "Junk DNA" see now that not only the "antithesis" was incorrect, but the "Gene" thesis was defective, too. Some of us have put forward "Synthesis" - and a select few in algorithmic, i.e. "software enabling" manner. Synthetic Biology and Protein-based Nanotechnology will not make it without proper "software design" ... - comment by Pellionisz, 22nd of June, 2007]"

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:59   

Are you offering any prize money? What do we win?

   
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1790
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,22:59   

Hey Sporty, found any YECs willing to pay their own money to radiocarbon date that dinosaur bone yet?  :D  :D  :D  

Or maybe you could explain to us about butterfly wombs.  :D  :D  :D

--------------
"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:06   

Quote (supersport @ Sep. 17 2007,23:59)
well while you're thinking..what do you think of this link?

http://www.junkdna.com/#genes_move_over

I think 71,644 words on a single web page might be some kind of record...

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:07   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 17 2007,22:59)
Are you offering any prize money? What do we win?

I once offered a forum a quarter for any such correct answer, but I've decided to take that off the table.  Sorry.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:08   

Quote
I don't need to be an expert in biology to know when the challenge has been met.  


Sooo.... you reject what biologists say, and you have no training in biology, but you're fit to make statements as to whether biologists are right. That about nail it?

Are you the same Supersport who has all those retarded quotes over at Fundies Say the Darnedest Things?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:10   

So we're supposed to do all the work, for nothing, in hopes you'll learn something?

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:13   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 17 2007,23:10)
So we're supposed to do all the work, for nothing, in hopes you'll learn something?

well, actually, since you guys are the ones passing this stuff off as fact to school kids, it might be nice to see a little evidence that the mechanism can do as advertised.

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:14   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 18 2007,00:08)
Quote
I don't need to be an expert in biology to know when the challenge has been met.  


Sooo.... you reject what biologists say, and you have no training in biology, but you're fit to make statements as to whether biologists are right. That about nail it?

Are you the same Supersport who has all those retarded quotes over at Fundies Say the Darnedest Things?

Yeah, super, are you this guy?

"Evolutionists prey on the ignorant and gullible. They know the vast majority of the population knows nothing of genetics or molecules or bacteria – so that’s where they go for their so-called “proof” of evolution. They like to hide their proof in dark corners where nobody can see it."

supersport, CARM [Comments (65)] 2007-Mar-11

"[Would you please tell us what your scientific qualifications (for evaluating evolution) are? What is your profession?]

My qualification is I'm a God-fearing college dropout redneck hick landlord who goes after darwinism with freaking vengeance....and I just happen to have the truth on my side."

supersport, Theology Web [Comments (76)] 2007-Jan-28

Well the everyone grab your ticket! The dark side is going to make it that every man, woman and child has free health care. It's not exactly the same, but for me it brings back images of the jews being led towards the death showers in Germany."

supersport, CARM.org [Comments (103)] 2007-Jan-25

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:16   

in the flesh.....

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:16   

I've got to agree with him on that last one. Free health care and the Holocaust aren't exactly the same thing...

:p

   
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:18   

I was suspicious this guy was Davetard or AFDave, but I think he's not, and I think some people here are going to have a good time.

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:20   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 17 2007,23:16)
I've got to agree with him on that last one. Free health care and the Holocaust aren't exactly the same thing...

:p

see, we do have something in common!

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:21   

Looks like the same guy:

 
Quote


"I think it's high time the truth is told about evolutionist-run debate forums. The Richard Dawkins forum is the 3rd atheist/evolutionist forum I have been banned from for absolutely no reason. I will present the evidence here that creationists simply are not welcome at evolutionists' sites....our ideas are not tolerated, and if we step out of line and make too much of a fool of ToE then we simply get exterminated. You think Communism and mind-control only happens in China or North Korea? HA! Just try posting anti-darwinian language at an atheist site and see how long you stick around."

supersport, CARM [Comments (51)] 2007-Aug-22


 
Quote
""evolution" is simply changes emerging from within the individual to adapt himself to a changing enviornment. Darwin was wrong, dawkins was wrong, gould was wrong -- I am right."

supersport, RichardDawkins.net [Comments (51)] 2007-Aug-24


 
Quote
"first of all medicine, like evolutionary science is mostly political. There are very few medicines, if any, that cure anything. Any cures that happen do so because of the body's own ability to repair itself. Care to name me a disease in the past 40 years that's been cured on a widescale basis by medicine?"

supersport , CARM [Comments (52)] 2007-Jul-21


 
Quote
"No I have no plans to read any more science than I absolutely have to. Science is a sham and does not even come close to explaining anything about reality. I get my wisdom from other sources. Life, including biology, is nonscientific."

SuperSport, CARM [Comments (47)] 2007-Jun-25


 
Quote

"[after being presented with the fact that genes majorly control one's traits]

wrong... this is so far from fact you don't obviously don't know biology..
"

supersport, CARM Disussion Forums [Comments (33)] 2007-May-11


 
Quote
"(Supersport explains how animals in the wild never get sick. From three different comments in the thread)

Darwin, why do you think animals in the wild don't get diabetes? Why do they not get alzheimers? Why do they not get MS or or lupus or Depression? Why do they not get cancer? Why is it that dogs and cats start coming down with diseases such as cancer and diabetes only after they are in captivity....only after humans care for them and vaccinate them and give them all kinds of drugs, and processed food?

why is that?

[Mind-boggingly stupid statement. Animals in the wild do get various illnesses, but they don't usually survive long enough for us to find them while they are convalescing in a den or a nest, because they either starve or get eaten. In the wild getting sick is close to a death sentence.]

No they don't. Please show me where animals in the wild get diabetes, for example."

supersport, CARM [Comments (35)] 2007-Apr-08


 
Quote
"Are you sure the vaccine for small pox isn't actually causing smallpox?"

supersport, CARM [Comments (9)] 2007-Mar-26


 
Quote
"Evolutionists are obsessed with skulls. In particular they love sticking thier noses down into rotting skulls with tape measures. Then these self-absorbed thinkers very carefully analyze the shape, size and contour of these skulls because they think they can make judgements on how intelligent someone was based on these measurements and observations. Neanderthals, for instance, despite being genecally 99.9% the same as modern humans, have been labled brutes and savages because they had big skulls with thick bones. Not only that, but some evolutionists say they were unable to even speak, and instead, resorted to making high squeaking noises -- I guess like some sort of dolphin or hyena or something. Of course, it was because they were so darn dumb that us "real" humans supposedly overpowered them and drove them into extinction. Afterall, who wants dumb people around? (This is despite the fact that there's absolutely no evidence of widespread killings or savage murders of Neanderthals.)

Seriously....reading the words of these people is just laughable. Listening to them go on and on about the specific dimensions and sizes of skulls, like these things have anything to do with the intelligence of the individual is just insulting. In fact, I truly do feel insulted for the person who's skull they are sifting through. How would you evolutionists like someone in the future digging through your skull and calling you sub-human or incapable of intelligent thought -- or saying you didn't know how to talk?

But my question to you evolutionists is this: What in the world would make you think that because someone has a different shaped skull that they cannot think as good as you can? And what does size have to do with anything? Evolutionists keep searching for "intermediate" skulls -- skulls that lie somewhere in between an apes' and a humans' for years now.

But if skull size meant anything at all, then why aren't gorillas much more intelligent that we are? And elephants? And hippos? A human is a human is a human. The human brain is a human brain no matter what size it is. You can be a tiny person such as a pygmy or you can be a giant. A giant, despite his large brain, is no more intelligent than a small person.

School kids, even the class dunce, could get this logic -- but evolutionists can't."

supersport, CARM [Comments (24)] 2007-Mar-21


 
Quote


I, of course, believe God Created the world in 6 days. One of the greatest questions creationists are faced with is how the animals spread out across the world after Noah's ark came to a rest.

Of course nobody knows what happened...but I think with a little investigation, one can put some pieces together that make a little sense.

Is it possible that the world was created much smaller than it is today? Is it possible that there were no oceans? Is it possible that, instead there were "fountains of the deep?" Is it possible that at some point the earth cracked open and these flood waters came pouring out?

Is it possible that the earth grew much like a balloon expands? Is it possible that when the ark came down that the continents were still one land mass, only to separate later?



http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7592727299684964168

"

supersport, CARM [Comments (36)] 2007-Mar-14


 
Quote


"what's wrong with that statement? You don't think evolutionists scientists have tried to make a human/chimp baby? These people wish to their dirt god that they were chimps -- if they could have a baby with a female chimp they would in a heartbeat."

supersport, CureZone [Comments (44)] 2007-Mar-03



...and there's a LOT more where this came from.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:22   

just for fun, why don't you name me a disease that's been cured in the last 30 years with medicine.  Please keep in mind the trillions of dollars going into the pockets of Big Medicine.....

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:23   

Quote
My qualification is I'm a God-fearing college dropout redneck hick landlord who goes after darwinism with freaking vengeance....and I just happen to have the truth on my side."


Just wanted to say, when I was spending a lot of time at FSTDT last winter, this was one of my favorite quotes there, esp. the boldfaced part.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:24   

I can't stop reading that FSTDT page

Quote
"homosexuals should be thrown in jail like in the good ole days....maybe we could let them pick up trash on the side of the road while they're all linked together with chains. At least that way Aids would be confined to prisons as opposed to infecting the rest of society and dragging everyone else down with them."

supersport, CureZone [Comments (40)] 2007-Jan-05


Quote
"I mean if modern day humans have been around for tens of thousands of years, then where are all the skyscrapers from years gone by? Where are all the books and artifacts? Where are the planes and cars?"

Supersport, Carm.org Discussion Forums [Comments (50)] 2006-Dec-05

   
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:26   

this is like the "This is your life" gameshow in here...cool!

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:26   

Supersport does support SOME programs to help poor people:

Quote

"In my opinion, if an animal in the wild like a swan is caught being gay it should be shot on sight, disinfected, and used to feed the poor."

supersport, carm [Comments (56)] 2006-Nov-21


--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
supersport



Posts: 158
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:29   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 17 2007,23:26)
Supersport does support SOME programs to help poor people:

Quote

"In my opinion, if an animal in the wild like a swan is caught being gay it should be shot on sight, disinfected, and used to feed the poor."

supersport, carm [Comments (56)] 2006-Nov-21

yes, that is one of my personal favorites as well.....just trying to help out!

  
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:29   

Quote
"In my opinion, if an animal in the wild like a swan is caught being gay it should be shot on sight, disinfected, and used to feed the poor."

supersport, carm [Comments (56)] 2006-Nov-21


   
stevestory



Posts: 10405
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2007,23:30   

dang your hide Arden Chatfield!

   
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