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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 3, The Beast Marches On...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:09   

I can't make a new thread and since this is close to as Uncommonly Dense as you can get,

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist" by Frank Turek, Dr. Norman L Geisler and David Limbaugh.

Who is the astronomer here?

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:16   

Quote (Missing Shade of Blue @ Oct. 18 2009,23:50)
Of course, once you have a condition as broad as 3, I begin to wonder whether you're not approaching triviality. Isn't 3 pretty close to "Observations of this type strengthen your hypothesis unless they don't"?

No, because condition 3 nearly always holds.  In our world, for example, observations of hard diamonds really do support the hypothesis that all diamonds are hard, as do observations of yellow bananas protruding from Richardthughes' posterior.

Quote
I think the way to go is to abandon Hempelian instance confirmation entirely and just be a straight-up Bayesian. With Bayes' rule you're guaranteed to be updating your beliefs rationally without having to make all sorts of caveats.

That misses the entire point of this discussion.  We're not arguing over how science should proceed -- it's doing quite well without our input, thank you.  We're arguing over the resolution of Hempel's paradox, of which instance confirmation is an unavoidable aspect.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
khan



Posts: 1483
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:20   

Quote (FrankH @ Oct. 19 2009,14:09)
I can't make a new thread and since this is close to as Uncommonly Dense as you can get,

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist" by Frank Turek, Dr. Norman L Geisler and David Limbaugh.

Who is the astronomer here?

Rush's brother.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
FrankH



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:23   

Quote (khan @ Oct. 19 2009,13:20)
Quote (FrankH @ Oct. 19 2009,14:09)
I can't make a new thread and since this is close to as Uncommonly Dense as you can get,

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist" by Frank Turek, Dr. Norman L Geisler and David Limbaugh.Who is the astronomer here?
Rush's brother.

He is?

I thought he was a lawyer who's really into Christian persecution.

--------------
Marriage is not a lifetime commitment, it's a life sentence!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10237
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:24   

Quote (keiths @ Oct. 19 2009,12:33)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 19 2009,07:55)
There once was a homo called Keiths
Who had strange posterior beliefs
Ravens, Bananas,
Crammed up his pyjamas
to ascertain whether Hempel's paradox expressed as a hypothesis is a true representation of inductive logic for a finite set of entities working under other a priori assumptions such as the uniformity of nature.

I absolutely dispute that last line!  Swords or pistols, Hughes?

You can have a sword. I'll have a not a yellow banana. A fully automatic not a yellow banana.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
khan



Posts: 1483
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:28   

Quote (FrankH @ Oct. 19 2009,14:23)
Quote (khan @ Oct. 19 2009,13:20)
Quote (FrankH @ Oct. 19 2009,14:09)
I can't make a new thread and since this is close to as Uncommonly Dense as you can get,

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist" by Frank Turek, Dr. Norman L Geisler and David Limbaugh.Who is the astronomer here?
Rush's brother.

He is?

I thought he was a lawyer who's really into Christian persecution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Limbaugh

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:41   

The incredibly voluble Nakashima, in one of far too many posts on UD recently
Quote
How do I distinguish between ordered and organized, in nature? Is there an effective procedure that always decides correctly between them? Even just gets it right 95% of the time?


I would love love love someone to prove that distinguishing between ordered and organized (ie the whole ID enterprise) is equivalent to the Halting Problem, and therefore never ever going to happen. What say y'all?

At Dell we never had a halting problem, there's a switch on the side of the box!!1! i kill myself only an darwinst inuit skirtchaser would have trouble figuring taht out - dt

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,13:57   

Quote
CJYman: Of course, one can say that puddles are specified since we can say that f(shape of hole in the ground)=shape of the water which fills the hole. As long as the shape of the hole in the ground is indeed independent from the water which fills it, then the critic seems to have a point. But, that is why merely having a specified pattern can not allow one to jump to a design inference. Just as merely having a complex pattern can not allow one to jump to a design inference. The pattern (event) must be either both complex (highly improbable) and specified, or in the case of what I am now discussing, functionally specified in order to arrive at a design inference.

Puddles are definitely complex. There is no easy way to enumerate all the bumps and ridges of a puddle. Indeed, the closer we look, the more bumps and ridges there are! And, as CJYman admits that puddles are specified, we can conclude that puddles are high in CSI. And we all know that CSI means design!

(Did you know that Douglas Adams was actually a preeminent ID scientist? Didn't think you did.)

Quote
CJYman: Adding the term “functionally” to “specified” merely lets us know that the organization is functional in the sense of contributing to a larger whole by producing an effect which which would not exist if the organization where to change.

The function of the hole is to fit and support the puddle "staggeringly well."

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Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
JohnW



Posts: 2268
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,14:02   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 19 2009,11:57)
(Did you know that Douglas Adams was actually a preeminent ID scientist? Didn't think you did.)

Well, he meets the main criterion used by IDers when claiming people as supporters.  He's no longer around to say otherwise.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,14:06   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 19 2009,14:57)
The function of the hole is to fit and support the puddle "staggeringly well."

Oddly, after reading that, I was about to use the word "staggeringly" as well, though in a slightly different context.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,14:17   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 19 2009,14:06)
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 19 2009,14:57)
The function of the hole is to fit and support the puddle "staggeringly well."

Oddly, after reading that, I was about to use the word "staggeringly" as well, though in a slightly different context.

"Staggering well" does seem like an oxymoron.

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10237
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,14:49   

Debunked weasels win anyway:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-winner



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
RDK



Posts: 229
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,14:59   

[quote=sparc,Oct. 19 2009,11:39][/quote]
Quote
You can download Dembski's draft for "The search for the search" here.

He describes it as    
Quote
forthcoming pro-ID peer-reviewed article in the math/eng literature (name of journal will be announced when the article appears in print).


Does anybody find it laughable that the good Dr^dr keeps coming up with these ridiculously obfuscated math papers to refute a biological concept?  Dembski has got to be the densest person to ever attempt a peer-reviewed paper in the history of peer-review.

Get a fucking clue, man.

--------------
If you are not:
Leviathan
please Logout under Meta in the sidebar.

‘‘I was like ‘Oh my God! It’s Jesus on a banana!’’  - Lisa Swinton, Jesus-eating pagan

  
khan



Posts: 1483
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,15:18   

Quote (RDK @ Oct. 19 2009,15:59)
[quote=sparc,Oct. 19 2009,11:39][/quote]
 
Quote
You can download Dembski's draft for "The search for the search" here.

He describes it as      
Quote
forthcoming pro-ID peer-reviewed article in the math/eng literature (name of journal will be announced when the article appears in print).


Does anybody find it laughable that the good Dr^dr keeps coming up with these ridiculously obfuscated math papers to refute a biological concept?  Dembski has got to be the densest person to ever attempt a peer-reviewed paper in the history of peer-review.

Get a fucking clue, man.

Yes.
It's weird to try to mathematically 'prove' that something (that actually occurred) couldn't have occurred.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
Henry J



Posts: 4080
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,15:42   

Quote (Missing Shade of Blue @ Oct. 18 2009,23:31)
Suppose she goes into a room that I know contains a million ravens and two bananas, in order to pick a sample for me. She comes out carrying a yellow banana. Given my auxiliary assumptions about her sampling procedure, I should actually drastically reduce my credence in the hypothesis.

Either that or she thinks you need more potassium in your diet? :p

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,16:59   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 19 2009,12:49)
Debunked weasels win anyway:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-winner


Anyone else think that dude looks like 80s-era Bowie?

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,17:01   

Quote (khan @ Oct. 19 2009,15:18)
Quote (RDK @ Oct. 19 2009,15:59)
Quote (sparc @ Oct. 19 2009,11:39)

 
Quote
You can download Dembski's draft for "The search for the search" here.

He describes it as      
Quote
forthcoming pro-ID peer-reviewed article in the math/eng literature (name of journal will be announced when the article appears in print).


Does anybody find it laughable that the good Dr^dr keeps coming up with these ridiculously obfuscated math papers to refute a biological concept?  Dembski has got to be the densest person to ever attempt a peer-reviewed paper in the history of peer-review.

Get a fucking clue, man.

Yes.
It's weird to try to mathematically 'prove' that something (that actually occurred) couldn't have occurred.

It's compulsive. Whenever a biological concept comes his way he has to grab and wave his slide rule at it.

--------------
Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1256
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,17:45   

Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 19 2009,14:17)
 
Quote (Lou FCD @ Oct. 19 2009,14:06)
   
Quote (Zachriel @ Oct. 19 2009,14:57)
The function of the hole is to fit and support the puddle "staggeringly well."

Oddly, after reading that, I was about to use the word "staggeringly" as well, though in a slightly different context.

"Staggering well" does seem like an oxymoron.

I have treasured this clipping for years, knowing that this moment would someday arrive:



--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,19:58   

Oddly, I'd saved a similar, yet different clipping from the same paper:

P.S. Sorry, Amadan, I couldn't help myself. I promise never to steal from you again.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,20:18   

Ok, so I clicked the link in Amadan's sig, just for giggles, but the thread is apparently gone. I get redirected to a page that says something like, "Did you click on a valid link? Report this to an admin." I clicked that link and it told me I couldn't send an Email to the admin until I agreed to the board rules.

So I clicked that link and began reading the board rules.

Know what's hysterical? Jesus wouldn't be allowed to post at Rapture Ready. Every damned thing the man is reputed to have said is against the board rules.

lol

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,23:29   

Denyse goes to Waterloo:  
Quote
Placebo effect caught in the act in spinal nerves

The placebo effect is not only real; its ability to deaden pain has been pinpointed to cells in the spinal cord. That raises hopes for new ways of treating conditions such as chronic pain.
...
FMRI scanning has long been used to image the brain, but the part of the spinal cord that Eippert's team was interested in – the dorsal horn – is minuscule in comparison, and so is harder to image. It also swims around in cerebrospinal fluid, further complicating real-time measurement.
...
Meanwhile, the fMRI scanner witnessed the placebo effect. When skin treated with the "control" cream was heated, an area of the dorsal horn located on the left side of volunteers' lower necks lit up, suggesting increased neural activity there in response to pain. However, this signal disappeared in the "painkiller" trials.

Eippert's team didn't discover what caused this shift. He speculates that higher brain areas involved in buying into the bogus treatment trigger the release of endogenous opioids – chemicals our brain produces that work like opiates and may temper spinal cord activity.

Now that researchers know the neural hallmark of placebo pain relief, they could use it to develop treatments, cognitive or chemical, that take better advantage of belief, Eippert says.

Don't read that, Denyse.  You know how reality makes you break out in a rash.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,23:32   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 19 2009,14:49)
Debunked weasels win anyway:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-winner


From the UD OP:

"Note: Apparently, Bill Dembski is taking care of the award."

Which means you will get your award shortly after Bill delivers that bottle of single malt scotch.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1670
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2009,23:40   

Quote (khan @ Oct. 19 2009,13:28)
     
Quote (FrankH @ Oct. 19 2009,14:23)
     
Quote (khan @ Oct. 19 2009,13:20)
       
Quote (FrankH @ Oct. 19 2009,14:09)
I can't make a new thread and since this is close to as Uncommonly Dense as you can get,

"I don't have enough faith to be an Atheist" by Frank Turek, Dr. Norman L Geisler and David Limbaugh.Who is the astronomer here?
Rush's brother.

He is?

I thought he was a lawyer who's really into Christian persecution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Limbaugh

From the article:
     
Quote
(born December 11, 1952

     
Quote
He also served in the National Guard for six years.

Translation: Unlike his older brother Rush, David Limbaugh was not blessed with an anal cyst, so he had to join the National Guard to avoid the draft.  However, like his older brother, he enthusiastically supported the Vietnam war, just not for himself.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10237
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,00:44   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 19 2009,19:58)
Oddly, I'd saved a similar, yet different clipping from the same paper:

P.S. Sorry, Amadan, I couldn't help myself. I promise never to steal from you again.

Flamboyant icon! Got that right, homo.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Amadan



Posts: 1256
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,04:16   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 19 2009,19:58)
P.S. Sorry, Amadan, I couldn't help myself. I promise never to steal from you again.

You are welcome to steal my overdraft or any of the bills I am currently ignoring.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Leftfield



Posts: 98
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,08:25   

Shameful confession: As a layman, sometimes I start to think that maybe the people over there at UD might be onto something. Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while and all that.

But then something so colossally stupid as the recent post, reporting that the last universal common ancestor was complex, therefore Jeebus, comes up and none of the regulars points out that the last universal common ancestor might, just possibly, not have been the first self-replicating entity. And so I am reminded that any of them who have might the common sense God gave a chicken have no interest in science or reality.

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Speaking for myself, I have long been confused . . .-Denyse O'Leary

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,09:35   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 20 2009,00:44)
Flamboyant icon! Got that right, homo.

You sweet-talker, you.

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,10:34   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Oct. 20 2009,10:35)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 20 2009,00:44)
Flamboyant icon! Got that right, homo.

You sweet-talker, you.

RichardTaHuge - puts the boy in flamboyant

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10237
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,10:44   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 18 2009,20:26)
POEPLES WHO ARE HOMOS AND LIBRULS AND ARE FIRST AGAINST THE WALL COME TEH DESIGN REVOLUTIONS:

1) TARDEN CHATTERBOX
2) HORSE BOTHERER
3) PLEBMAN
4) *New entry* KIEFS.
5) P.DIDDYMOUSE

DvK - You want on this list?

I know what you're thinking. "Can he count to six or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as I'm an autodictater Polymaths, the most powerful force in teh universe (except for gravity), and would blow your mind clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2009,10:48   

Watch out, dvunkannon!! He's got a shillelagh* in his pocket!1!


*Or is that a banana? Raven? Either way, run!

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
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