Antievolution.org - Antievolution.org Discussion Board -Topic::Biological Information: New Perspectives

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Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,07:36

Around June 4, 2011, the usual gaggle of antievolutionists held a closed invitation-only meeting in a rented space at Cornell University. The putative topic of discussion was "Biological Information". After the conference, they set about getting their "conference papers" published by a scientific publisher. In various places around the web, little bits of discussion turned up describing how detractors and critics had been kept out, that the unadulterated antievolution objections would be published by a major publisher not yet to be named, and that all that was needed for this plan to come to fruition was to keep the publisher's name quiet until the volume was printed.

Last week, the major scientific publisher was revealed to be Springer Verlag. Springer automatically generates pre-publication announcements for forthcoming books, so in the course of time going on, the book description popped up on Springer's web site and on Amazon.com. The cat was out of the bag.

Nick Matzke posted on Panda's Thumb that Springer had managed to get suckered by a batch of creationists. Within 24 hours, the Springer page for the book was taken down. In news reports, Springer said that the editorial staff was sending the material out for further review.

On the Discovery Institute blog, a knee-jerk post complaining about "censorship!" went up momentarily, was crawled by the Google bot, and then was taken down. Somebody on the religious antievolution side of the fence figured out, belatedly, that the best shot at getting pretty much what they thought they had in the bag would be aided by not stirring up controversy themselves. And the word appears to be going out to the faithful that it should be so. The various places where gloating comments about the conference and subsequent publication suddenly had the comments or posts deleted. Anything that can provide a record of the intentional subterfuge and misleading material provided to Springer is being expunged even now.

So this thread is open to archive and preserve that record as best we can manage, scraping sources from Google cache to Internet Archive. Please post any finds you make here.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,07:45

Over on TheologyWeb, "Jorge" had posted a bit of information about conference. He had requested that the moderators delete his thread, which they did. Then "Tiggy" posted a copy of "Jorge"'s post. "Jorge" has requested that that be taken down. I'll post it here, just in case TheologyWeb is inclined to remove it.

Quote

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Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience

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Thread: Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience

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March 3rd 2012 12:48 PM
Post: #1
Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience
This particular bit of Creationist dishonesty needs to be archived.

Jorge recently started a thread, then for some reason demanded that it be deleted:

Jump to Post Originally posted by Jorge

Quote

1. I had promised you that the two papers that I co-authored would soon be published, remember?

Well, publication has occurred and release is supposed to be very soon - within days. However ...

2. ... we may be witnessing in real time another episode of 'EXPELLED'.

3. The Proceedings from the symposium, contained in a book titled Biological Information: New Perspectives,
is now encountering the usual attempts at censorship practiced by the 'Thought Police' -- you know, the
type of censorship that the Evo-Faithful loudly deny happens at all.

4. This was strictly a scientific symposium -- I know, I was there from start to finish.
Every paper was scrutinized to be/remain science ... pure science.

5. The publisher is Springer-Verlag. I assure you, the papers were heavily peer-reviewed.
But guess what? They now want to do additional peer-review because of "complaints". OMG !

6. The Evo-Faithful complain that intelligent design isn't science "because it's not peer-reviewed."
When it is peer-reviewed, they say, "It shouldn't have been peer-reviewed because it's not science."

Now where did I put my shotgun?

7. In passing, do you see why I use the term "dishonest" as often as I do? Do you? Huh? Do you? It fits!

8. Lastly, wanna guess who's already involved?
Yup, you guessed it, the NCSE : the 'witch' and her broomstick.

9. More details here : http://the-scientist.com/2012.......id-book

10. This could turn ugly, very ugly ... stay tuned ...

Jorge

Turns out the DI and Jorge are attempting to cover up the latest bit of Creationist dishonesty.

The IDCers submitted this batch of "papers" from Jorge's recent Intelligent Design Creation conference to Springer in book form called Biological Information: New Perspectives. Apparently the work was deliberately misrepresented as being from a conference sponsored by Cornell, not merely held on the Cornell campus in publicly available rental space.

The book was mistakenly tentatively accepted by some junior editors at Springer based on the Cornell name. When the truth of the matter became clear, Springer pulled the advance notice of the book.

As reported by Allan MacNeill at Panda's thumb:

Quote

From the very few bits of information I have been able to gather, the “symposium” was apparently held in the Statler Auditorium in the School of Hotel Administration at the Ithaca campus. Unlike most of the large lecture halls at Cornell, the Statler Auditorium can be rented by outside groups for non-university functions. I know this because I have performed there with the Ithaca Ballet, which used to rent the hall for their local performances. Ergo, it appears that John Sanford and the symposium organizers rented the hall and are now claiming that the event was somehow “a Cornell event” rather than an event held in a rented hall at Cornell.

Statler Auditorium has almost 900 seats, but in looking at the housing reservation at one of the links above, there were apparently only 42 attendees (and that may also include the presenters), so the auditorium would have looked a little…well, shall we say “sparse”?

link

Lots more info at

Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience

Update on Springer “Biological Information: New Perspectives” Volume

and here

Quote

Score one for science this week. Evolutionary biologists were horrified by the news that a scholarly press was going to publish a work in favor of intelligent design. But a spokesman for the publishing house confirmed to Inside Higher Ed Wednesday that the book’s publication is on hold as it is subjected to further peer review.

Earlier this week, the Panda’s Thumb, a blog about evolutionary theory, posted an item about a forthcoming book from Springer called Biological Information: New Perspectives. The blog-poster and other commenters said the book was a compilation of articles by creationists and intelligent-design proponents and Springer had no business publishing such "creationist pseudoscience."

Eric Merkel-Sobotta, executive vice president of corporate communications at Springer in Germany, said in an e-mail, that the initial proposal for the book was peer-reviewed by two independent reviewers. “However, once the complete manuscript had been submitted, the series editors became aware that additional peer review would be necessary,” Merkel-Sobotta said. “This is currently underway, and the automatically generated pre-announcement for the book on Springer has been removed until the peer-reviewers have made their final decision.”

full story

Looks like the DI has gone into full damage control / spin mode.

My guess is that Cornell found out about how its name was being misused and threatened to sue the pants off the DI and the folks who dishonestly misued the connection. All across the web Creationist sites like this one are now erasing all mention of Cornell and issuing disclaimers for CYA purposes.

Too funny!

- T

As someone who has publicly commented on this issue, I find "Jorge"'s "shotgun" comment above to be a palpable threat. I consider this "fair use" of his commentary.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,07:53

"Jorge" is a particularly strange person. If he was a contributer to this "scientific" conference, I know it was a fraud.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,08:04

http://www.antievolution.org/cgi-bin....y202707

I think this is relevant.

Edited by midwifetoad on Mar. 05 2012,08:05

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... a poster child for irresponsible and deceitful misrepresentation of design theory on the Internet.
http://tinyurl.com/9axtwbe....9axtwbe

Posts: 197
Joined: May 2008

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,08:21

My favorite: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?....he:http

Sid Galloway (Just an OLD sheepdog of the GOOD SHEPHERD) describes his attendance of the symposium:

Quote

Biological Information - New Perspectives Symposium

© Sid Galloway BS, M.Div

The following Bio-Info conference was an inspiring example of truly critical, logikos thinking in the scientific community. The symposium was not sponsored by Cornell, though Dr. John Sanford, Cornell geneticist and inventor of the Gene Gun was a principle coordinator.

(Sanford is the inventor of the Biolistic Gene Gun for genetic engineering, Cornell professor for 30 years, 80 scientific papers, 30 patents, and author of GENETIC ENTROPY: The Mystery of the Genome.

Thank you to all who prayed for this event, and who helped reduce my expenses.

It was a privilege being invited to attend the BI-NP Symposium at
Cornell University last summer. Twenty-three scientists from around the world, representing various fields of science presented to attendees from many countries, including Korea, China, Germany, Canada, United Kingdom, Russia, and the United States. Among those attending, 50% were PhD’s, 25% were PhD candidates, and the rest were an assortment of diverse individuals - the least among them - me.

The BINPS at Cornell University was a purely scientific conference, with no public elements of religion in the presentations or discussion. However, there was a great deal of fruitful private dialogue involving philosophical, theological, and teleological implications among presenters and attendees during our free time. The coordinators’ decision to eliminate any public religious content was understandable given their sincere commitment as a group to trace only the "science" evidence to its best and most logical conclusion (IBE – Inference to the Best Explanation.

(read the rest under the link to the google cache...)

Occam's Aftershave

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,08:32

Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 05 2012,07:53)

"Jorge" is a particularly strange person. If he was a contributer to this "scientific" conference, I know it was a fraud.

Jorge Fernandez is a real piece of work. Besides being a YEC, he also went in with Werner Gitt to publish yet another book on why "information" proves ToE impossible.

The funny part was on the book's cover Jorge had himself listed as a PhD. Turns out his "Doctorate" was purchased from an unaccredited on-line diploma mill.

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JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,08:48

That page really needs to be save in its entirety, because google will clear it from the cache upon request of the author.

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... a poster child for irresponsible and deceitful misrepresentation of design theory on the Internet.
http://tinyurl.com/9axtwbe....9axtwbe

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,10:09

I sent this email to one of the senior editors at Springer on the 27th Feb:

Quote

Hi!

(I'm not sure if you're the correct person to contact about this, if
you're not, could you pass this on to whoever is responsible).

I've just found out about your forthcoming book "Biological Information:

New Perspectives"
(http://www.springer.com/engineering/computational+intelligence+and+comp
lexity/book/978-3-642-28453-3).
This has the potential to be a controversial text (as the editors are
all active in pushing Intelligent Design), so I'm wondering why it's
being published as an engineering text, rather than biology: it would
seem to be a better fit there.

Thanks in advance.

and got a reply from a different senior editor on the 28th:

Quote

Dear Bob,

thank you for your important mail concerning the planned book
"Biological Information: New Perspectives".

The book has been acquired and reviewed by our experienced series
editors of the book series "Intelligent Systems Reference Library"
so it was a natural choice to publish it there under the umbrella of
applied sciences. Thank you for your very valuable remark concerning
Intelligent design, we will doublecheck the situation with the reviewers
and the book editors and definitely will add a suitable Biology code.

Which I read as saying that they weren't previously aware of the ID link.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

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Joined: Sep. 2009

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,10:27

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 05 2012,10:09)

... The book has been acquired ...

Uh-oh - they actually paid in advance for this crap?

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

oldmanintheskydidntdoit

Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,10:46

http://liveweb.archive.org/http...........ttp

On that page is this text:

This document has a Mr. Galloway saying (presumably same person who wrote the above):

Quote

PLEASE PRAY FOR MY TRIP TO CORNELL UNIVERSITY FOR THE:
"BIOLOGICAL INFORMATION - NEW PERSPECTIVES SYMPOSIUM"

http://tinyurl.com/85l3sq7....85l3sq7

Seems the people attending sure thought it was an official Cornell symposium.

Depending on who set it up this could be the clincher:
http://tinyurl.com/7w2cztu....7w2cztu

but maybe it's standard stuff.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,11:32

Here's a copy of Jorge's post from June 2011:

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,11:34

Phanks reaction

and Jorge's reply

ETA link

Edited by sparc on Mar. 05 2012,14:06

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

OgreMkV

Posts: 2922
Joined: Oct. 2009

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,11:50

Seriously, anyone who has a clue about what is going on knows who Coppedge is and exactly why he was fired (and what's he trying to do to get the court's to allow ID related testimony in what is, essentially, a harrasement case).

Why withhold his name and then give so much information that anyone can figure it out.

You know once the conference is over, a lot of this stuff is posted on the internet.

Did anyone take video of the speakers? Anyone get copies of the powerpoint slides? Maybe even pictures of the attendees at a local hangout (or church in this case)?

Until I get some actual information, I'm not even sure that we can support the claim that this event actually occurred.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Woodbine

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,13:06

Here's a link to a thread at FRDB 'bigging' up the event back in June last year (apologies if you're already familiar with it)....

Anti neo-Darwinian papers coming!

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Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:16

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 05 2012,07:45)

Quote

link

Lots more info at

Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience

Update on Springer “Biological Information: New Perspectives” Volume

and here

Quote

As someone who has publicly commented on this issue, I find "Jorge"'s "shotgun" comment above to be a palpable threat. I consider this "fair use" of his commentary.

Tiggy re-posted Jorge's post which drives Jorge mad:

Quote

I do not know why this thread / OP is still active. I have TWICE requested the mods to remove it.

I requested that they remove my thread and they complied. In Tiggy's typical unethical style, he
circumvented the intent of the law by reposting in his own thread my OP -- an OP that had been
previously REMOVED by the mods.

I am hereby requesting for the THIRD TIME that the moderators of this forum remove this thread
or at the very least my words (Items 1-10) which have previously been deleted from this forum.

Thank you.

Jorge

(emphasis by Jorge)

Luckily the moderators denied to delete Tiggy's thread because he only cited what Jorge already disclosed.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:32

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 05 2012,10:09)

I sent this email to one of the senior editors at Springer on the 27th Feb:

Quote

and got a reply from a different senior editor on the 28th:

Quote

Which I read as saying that they weren't previously aware of the ID link.

The reply I obtained was similar.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Starbuck

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Joined: July 2011

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:41

The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?

Occam's Aftershave

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,14:51

Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,14:41)

The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?

It's a sure bet that there's money and lawyers involved. The only real question is who's suing who.

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JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

Posts: 1864
Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:00

Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,12:41)

The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?

It won't be Dover II. It cannot be.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

JohnW

Posts: 1932
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:17

Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,12:41)

The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?

Suing a publisher because they chose to reject something would be... interesting. I'm sure the outcome would be eagerly awaited by the Timecube guy, and green-ink-on-the-back-of-napkin MS writers everywhere. I don't think the rest of us need to be concerned.

My father-in-law was a law professor. He maintained that judges should have a third verdict option in lawsuits: "finding for the plaintiff", "finding for the defendant", and "get out of my court." This would be a good example of option 3.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

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Joined: June 2007

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:25

Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,15:41)

The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?

Oh dear designer please let it be so

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

noncarborundum

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Posted: Mar. 05 2012,15:36

Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 05 2012,15:17)

Quote (Starbuck @ Mar. 05 2012,12:41)

The silence might indicate the intention to litigate. Could this be Dover part deux?

I recently saw this referred to as dismissal on the grounds of "what the fuck is wrong with you?"

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes. I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it. Okay? So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

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Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,18:36

From Creation/Evolution Headlines there's this at-the-time brag:

Quote

Biological Information Symposium a Success
Posted on June 4, 2011 in Biology, Biomimetics, Cell Biology, Darwin and Evolution, Education, Genetics, Humanity, Intelligent Design, Issues, Microbiology, Mind and Brain, Origin of Life, Origins, Philosophy of Science

Friday morning June 4, participants were on their way homes across America and in Europe from a successful conference entitled Biological Information: New Perspectives. They had come to hear leading lights in the Intelligent Design movement deliver 27 scientific presentations on a variety of subtopics under the umbrella theme of information in biology. From all appearances, everyone had a great time of fellowship, encouragement and intellectual stimulation. No protestors or critics detracted from the event—partly because it was not widely advertised, in order to protect the identity of those wanting to take part without jeopardizing their careers. The event was held at Cornell University beginning Monday night May 30 and concluding Thursday June 2.

The symposium centered around three themes: (1) Information theory and biology, (2) information and genetic theory, and (3) theoretical biology. Speakers from disciplines as diverse as thermodynamics, mathematics, linguistics, computer science, genetics, and of course biology presented their experimental findings and theories. Attempts were made to define information in robust ways, to compare and contrast cybernetic and biological information, and to describe levels of information coding in the cell. Computer models of evolution were critiqued, as were attempts to generate information by non-intelligent causes. Not every speaker was a proponent of intelligent design, but all believed it is an idea worth taking seriously.

Speakers and the audience had been instructed to steer clear of religious issues. The focus was on the science, and the content was as rigorous as that of any science symposium. While many well-known spokespersons for intelligent design led the way, there was a notable presence of young scientists with even more enthusiasm for the new design-based approaches to biology than the seniors. Their energy was palpable in breakout sessions and lunchtime conversations. Because of potential harm to careers of some participants, names of all are being withheld from this review.

Quote

One thing is clear from this symposium: design scientists have more fun. It was an upbeat event. There was no lack of argumentation and disagreement, but it was all constructive and respectful, with the energetic give-and-take producing light, not heat. The social events were delightful, too. Cornell is a beautiful campus. There’s evidence for intelligent design all over the grounds, especially in the university’s gardens and native plant collections. A river runs through the middle of the campus and pours over several cascades.

Interestingly, there was a notable absence of participants from Cornell or the Ithaca area. It appears very likely that many who might have otherwise have attended were afraid of negative professional consequences arising from being associated in any way with this event of its participants..

Take heart, though. It was like that before Soviet communism fell. The last years of the Iron Curtain were fierce; many individuals suffered persecution, and many lived in a state of fear. The Soviet bloc seemed impregnable. Then, perestroika and glasnost came as reality set in that communism wasn’t working. Within just a couple of years, thanks to pressure from Reagan and internal pressure from freedom loving unions, the Berlin wall fell. The world watched in astonishment as the Soviet Union unraveled in a precipitous and momentous collapse, and long-denied freedoms saw the light of a new day. It can happen with Darwinism—unless vigilance gives way to complacency, challenge to comfort, love for truth to fear of criticism. This is no time to cower in retreat; it’s time to charge!

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,18:40

From EvolutionFairyTale, here's a "how we're going to pull off the big one" brag:

Quote

performedge
Don - a Child of the King

Veteran Member

400 posts
Gender:Male
Location:South Carolina
Interests:Being a logician. Debating the origins controversy. Going to heaven. Taking others with me. Seeing the creator.
Age: 48
Christian
Young Earth Creationist
Rock Hill, SC
Posted 09 June 2011 - 05:45 PM

Spectre, on Jun 9 2011, 12:53 AM, said:

Quote

Good question, I was trying to search through google for such conventions but I have not found any results at all.

Yes, sorry guys.

The place: Cornell University
What? A science symposium
Topic: Biological Information New Perspectives.
Date: May31st - June 2 2011

This was an invitation only event to prevent the media hype and evolutionist disrupters at bay. It was strictly science and not creation science. Twenty peer reviewed papers were presented and are in the process of being published now. All papers in some way shape or form present serious problems and even potential falsifications of the neo-Darwinian theory. The science community will be unaware of these papers until they are fully published in a scientific syposium book as is the usual procedure.

I have been asked not to present substantial information regarding this event until the publication is released. I don't know when, but expect 3-6 months. I have copies of all the abstracts and they are brutal regarding evidence against neo-Darwinian theory. Once released, the science community will for the first time have to deal wilth real contrary evidence. And it will open the doors for future symposiums where the scientific journals don't control the publications and peer review process. You will recognize several of the names of presenters. I will have access to all of these papers in the future, and I will make them available as soon as I can.

Sorry for the vagueness, but you all know the forces that work against such events. It looks like this was a success, and it opens many doors for the truth of an intelligent designer to be a real scientific topic that must be dealt with.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,18:49

From the Mountain Daily News, David "I'm-suing-JPL-for-religious-discrimination-but-there's-nothing-religious-about-intelligent-design-nosirree-bob" Coppedge has a brag that looks like the source for the Creation/Evolution Headlines article:

Quote

Biological Information Symposium a Success

Despite threat of professional retaliation

by David F. Coppedge

Friday morning June 4, participants were on their way to homes across America and in Europe from a successful conference entitled Biological Information: New Perspectives. They had come to hear leading lights in the Intelligent Design movement deliver 27 scientific presentations on a variety of subtopics under the umbrella theme of information in biology. From all appearances, everyone had a great time of fellowship, encouragement and intellectual stimulation. No protestors or critics detracted from the event—partly because it was not widely advertised, in order to protect the identity of those wanting to take part without jeopardizing their careers. The event was held at Cornell University beginning Monday night May 30 and concluding Thursday June 2.

The symposium centered around three themes: (1) Information theory and biology, (2) information and genetic theory, and (3) theoretical biology. Speakers from disciplines as diverse as thermodynamics, mathematics, linguistics, computer science, genetics, and of course biology presented their experimental findings and theories. Attempts were made to define information in robust ways, to compare and contrast cybernetic and biological information, and to describe levels of information coding in the cell. Computer models of evolution were critiqued, as were attempts to generate information by non-intelligent causes. Not every speaker was a proponent of intelligent design, but all believed it is an idea worth taking seriously.

Speakers and the audience had been instructed to steer clear of religious issues. The focus was on the science, and the content was as rigorous as that of any science symposium. While many well-known spokespersons for intelligent design led the way, there was a notable presence of young scientists with even more enthusiasm for the new design-based approaches to biology than the seniors. Their energy was palpable in breakout sessions and lunchtime conversations. Because of potential harm to careers of some participants, names of all are being withheld from this review.

One thing is clear from this symposium: design scientists have more fun. It was an upbeat event. There was no lack of argumentation and disagreement, but it was all constructive and respectful, with the energetic give-and-take producing light, not heat. The social events were delightful, too. Cornell is a beautiful campus. There's evidence for intelligent design all over the grounds, especially in the university’s gardens and native plant collections. A river runs through the middle of the campus and pours over several cascades.

Interestingly, there was a notable absence of participants from Cornell or the Ithaca area. It appears very likely that many who might have otherwise have attended were afraid of negative professional consequences arising from being associated in any way with this event of its participants..

Take heart, though. It was like that before Soviet communism fell. The last years of the Iron Curtain were fierce; many individuals suffered persecution, and many lived in a state of fear. The Soviet bloc seemed impregnable. Then, perestroika and glasnost came as reality set in that communism wasn’t working. Within just a couple of years, thanks to pressure from Reagan and internal pressure from freedom loving unions, the Berlin wall fell. The world watched in astonishment as the Soviet Union unraveled in a precipitous and momentous collapse, and long-denied freedoms saw the light of a new day. It can happen with Darwinism—unless vigilance gives way to complacency, challenge to comfort, love for truth to fear of criticism. This is no time to cower in retreat; it’s time to charge!

This entry was posted Thursday, June 9, 2011 at 12 p.m. by David F. Coppedge and is filed under the category titled Science in the News section. You can skip to the end and leave a response. Read our Commenting Policy before you post.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 05 2012,23:22

I've already mentioned this on PT but I guess it is worth to put here again:

Mrs Johnson reported on her Johnson and Johnson blog that her husband attended the meeting and even included pictures from the Cornell campus:

Quote

After leaving Heather and Andrew, we traveled about 3 1/2 hours north to Ithaca, New York. Howard was fortunate enough to be able to attend a conference on "Biological Information: New Perspectives".

Howard and I were fortunate to share a picnic dinner with this gentleman, Werner Gitt and his daughter, Roma, from Germany. He was one of the speaker's at the meeting Howard went to held on Cornell University's campus. Delightful people.

Posts: 197
Joined: May 2008

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,00:54

At the site of <a href="www.bobmarks.org/" target="_blank">Robert Marks II</a>, you can find a short description of the conference, as seen by his wife:

Quote

Cornell University: Next we drove to Cornell University where Bob was part of a conference called Biological Information – New Perspectives. Bob was a coorganizer along with famous ID people like William Dembski (The Design Inference and No Free Lunch), Michael Behe (Darwin's Black Box and The Edge of Evolution), John Sanford (Genetic Entropy & the Mystery of the Genome) and Bruce Gordon (The Nature of Nature). The proceedings of the conference will be published in 2012. Bob thought the conference was a grand success. Bob’s Ph.D. advisor, John Walkup, also came. John and his wife Pat are full time with Campus Crusade’s professor ministry in the Bay Area focusing on Stanford, Berkeley and San Jose State. Two of Bob’s graduate students, Winston Ewert and George Montañez, were also there so we got a wonderful three generation picture.

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,01:05

While he couldn't force Tiggy to remove the quotes from his his own deleted thread Jorge at the same time cannot shut upe:

Quote

I keep my promises - or at least try my best to do so.

Your remark above, "... let alone one pursuant of creationist claims" is asinine.

You swallow Atheist claims of Evolution, gigayears and other anti-scriptural claims with little to no problems. At this Symposium were presented numerous solid-science papers showing that Materialistic views of information - particularly as these relate to biology - are not even wrong (that would be too kind). How do you respond?
"... pursuant to creationist claims". I'm sad to say that people like you are not only ignorant, but you appear destined to remain that way. I have an entire section of my home library containing books from NON-Biblical Creationists, including Atheists.
I've spent thousands of dollars collecting those books, magazines, journals, etc.
That's because I want to LEARN the other POVs so that I know what I'm talking about.
Like I said, your remark was asinine.

As for future updates, you can get them from Panda's Thumb or from Tiggy.
You seem to have much more in common with them than you do with me.

Jorge

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,01:12

More from Jorge::

Quote

Honestly, it's hard to imagine* how you people manage to sleep at night with the things you say.

This applies to you, Tiggy, O-Mudd, Terror, R06, and a host of others here at TWeb. It's mind-boggling!!!

This event was held AT Cornell University - period. Choke on it if you must but that is what happened and that was the way it was reported. What you people suggest is ludicrous, lunacy and falling-drunk stooooopid. "DISCLAIMER : The conference will be held at Cornell University but it's not 'really' at Cornell University. This is because even though the facilities are on the campus grounds, belong to Cornell, and the service staff all work for Cornell University, the Big Wigs at Cornell do not agree with anything against Evolution. Therefore, though this conference is at Cornell University, it's "not really" at Cornell University. Did everybody get that?"

*Come to think of it, it isn't that hard to imagine at all. The more that people spend time promoting falsehoods, the easier it becomes for those people to not lose any sleep by any falsehood.
Ergo, you people probably sleep like the proverbial baby after a nice bath and warm milk.

Jorge

(emphasis by Jorge)

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,01:21

KBertsche investigates Cornell's role:

Quote

I see both sides of this issue, but I would put as much or more blame on Cornell than on groups that rent Statler Hall from them. Cornell, as a private university, has no obligation to rent their space to anyone. They try to attract rentals as a source of income. And the Cornell name is a selling point for their rentals. Cornell can't have it both ways; if they want to attract rental groups with the Cornell name, they must expect that these same groups will use the Cornell name to publicize their events.

According to the information sheet about renting Statler Hall, "The Hotel School reserves the right to refuse requests for use of space in Statler Hall that it believes is not in keeping with the mission and goals of the school." If Cornell is embarrassed by this situation, they should change their rental policy or make their approval process tighter.

Cornell's event planning information sheet shows concern about using their name or logo on "merchandise" "(i.e. shirts, hats, pens, etc.)" but specifically says, "Note that this policy does not apply to information printed on paper (i.e. posters, program booklets, etc.)."

I don't think the group did anything wrong in scheduling or publicizing their symposium. On the other hand, in attempting to use Cornell's name in the publication of their proceedings, the may well have violated Cornell's policy statement on Use of Cornell's Name, Logos, Trademarks, and Insignias. These sections of the statement are pertinent:

Quote

Cornell University

Responsibility for use of Cornell’s name and marks in the ordinary course of university business rests with the unit head. Questions regarding such use should be directed to the unit head. Examples of such use:
1. Official unit names. For example, “Cornell Institute for Public Affairs.”
2. Official event names. For example, “Cornell Conference on Law,” or “Cornell Nutrition Conference,” when approved by the appropriate dean or unit head and operated as a university event.
...
Except as specifically authorized in writing, use of Cornell’s name and marks in advertising and other promotional vehicles is prohibited when such use is likely to be perceived as an endorsement, even if such an endorsement is not the intention of the person or organization seeking to use Cornell’s name or marks.
...
Except those uses included in the “Ordinary Course of University Business” segment of this policy, the use of the name “Cornell University” or “Cornell,” in non-student organization names implying or tending to imply some official connection with the university, is prohibited except with the written permission of the university and under such restrictions as it may impose.

Jim_Wynne

Posts: 687
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,08:43

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 06 2012,01:21)

KBertsche investigates Cornell's role:

Quote

This person seems confused. On the one hand, he says "I don't think the group did anything wrong in scheduling or publicizing their symposium," then he quotes Cornell as saying "Except as specifically authorized in writing, use of Cornell’s name and marks in advertising and other promotional vehicles is prohibited when such use is likely to be perceived as an endorsement, even if such an endorsement is not the intention of the person or organization seeking to use Cornell’s name or marks."

It's pretty clear that the intent was to create the impression that Cornell was somehow officially complicit.

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Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

Posts: 3140
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Posted: Mar. 06 2012,09:09

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

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... a poster child for irresponsible and deceitful misrepresentation of design theory on the Internet.
http://tinyurl.com/9axtwbe....9axtwbe

Freddie

Posts: 331
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Posted: Mar. 06 2012,10:27

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

and if it hadn't been for those meddling kids ...

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Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

Posts: 1188
Joined: Sep. 2009

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,11:05

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

And that says a lot about the review process at Springer.

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

eigenstate

Posts: 68
Joined: Nov. 2011

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,11:43

Just putting this in the thread, in case Tiggy's thread eventually gets nuked -- a Cornell reference in Dembski's CV on the boondoggle:

Quote

No less that head IDiot William Dembski has gone the same route. From his CV:

PROFESSIONAL ACTIVITIES
2011 “A General Theory of Information Cost Incurred by Successful Search,” presented 31 May 2011 at Biological Information: New Perspectives (international conference at Cornell University, 31 May – 2 June 2011).

link

The whole Intelligent Design Creation movement is based on such intellectual dishonesty.

- T

Here's the link Tiggy supplied:

http://www.designinference.com/documen....ski.pdf

OgreMkV

Posts: 2922
Joined: Oct. 2009

Posted: Mar. 06 2012,12:14

Huh... there's irony for you.

I just discovered that David Dunning of Dunning-Krueger fame works at... Cornell.

Quote

The research, led by David Dunning, a psychologist at Cornell University, shows that incompetent people are inherently unable to judge the competence of other people, or the quality of those people’s ideas. For example, if people lack expertise on tax reform, it is very difficult for them to identify the candidates who are actual experts. They simply lack the mental tools needed to make meaningful judgments.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

khan

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Posted: Mar. 06 2012,14:56

The event was held at Cornell University

Is that the same as staying at Holiday Inn Express?

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"Stupid people try to find evidence that they're right. Smart people try to find evidence that they're wrong."
-stevestory

"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

Posts: 4122
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Posted: Mar. 06 2012,21:17

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

I thought it was Springer's automated marketing apparatus lurching into motion that spoiled their plan.

I suppose asking for an additional paragraph in the contract requiring the publisher to keep quiet about the volume until the copies are actually printed would be a bit suspicious.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Posted: Mar. 06 2012,22:47

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 06 2012,21:17)

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

I've learned about the book from Dembski's CV on February 27 (in the US it was still the 26th).

Quote

BOOKS
in preparation
Biological Information: New Perspectives (co-edited with Robert J. Marks II, John Sanford, Michael Behe, and Bruce Gordon). Under contract with Springer Verlag.

There's more to come:

Quote

Substantially revised 2nd edition of No Free Lunch: Why Specified Complexity Cannot Be Purchased without Intelligence (with Robert J. Marks II as new co-author). Under contract with Rowman & Littlefield.

Christian Darwinism: Why Theistic Evolution Fails as Science and Theology (coauthored with Denyse O’Leary, mounting a fundamental challenge to theistic evolution). Under contract with Broadman & Holman.

Mind Altering: How Culture is Changing Our Brains (co-authored with Baylor neuroscientist Matthew Stanford).

Baylor again, his unrequited love. But how deep can one sink to co-author a book with DO'L. After all who if not Dembski must be aware of her logic and her writings. OTOH, IIRC it was Dembski who hired her for UD.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Richardthughes

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Posted: Mar. 06 2012,23:11

WRITING!: WHAT DENYSE DOES? WELL!

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,03:12

Quick - I've written a blog post that's going to go up on a Major UK (and international) newspaper's web pages about this and it needs a picture. Can anyone suggest something, e.g. from the AtBC archives, that would be suitable, free to use, and not too offensive? I don't want to get sued.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

The whole truth

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Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,03:22

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,01:12)

A picture of what?

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

The whole truth

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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,03:41

Bob, I'm just asking for an idea of what you're looking for. Maybe I can help.

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,04:06

Something to illustrate the BI:NP story. I know there have been a few amusing photoshops done over the years here, and one of those might be suitable.

Other than that I'm fairly flexible. This is a last minute job (the post should go up in a couple of hours), so I'm happy for people to suggest previous work. Or a LOLcat.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

The whole truth

Posts: 906
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,05:18

Bob, don't feel obligated to use any of these, but you can if you want.

If you like the picture but want different words, tell me what you want and I'll make it. Better hurry though because I'll be going to sleep soon.

You can also make your own here

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,05:49

I like the first one. I almost said "no LOLDembskis", but now I'm glad I didn't.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

The whole truth

Posts: 906
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,05:55

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,03:49)

I like the first one. I almost said "no LOLDembskis", but now I'm glad I didn't.

Here's a smaller version of it, that looks a little better:

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,06:20

If we can get it passed the lawyers, it looks like we'll go for this. Who should get the credit? "The Whole Truth", or do you want your real name used?

You're not David S. Springer are you?

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

The whole truth

Posts: 906
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,06:36

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,04:20)

If we can get it passed the lawyers, it looks like we'll go for this. Who should get the credit? "The Whole Truth", or do you want your real name used?

You're not David S. Springer are you?

You don't have to give me any credit, but if you want to just use The whole truth. Nope, I'm not David Springer.

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

The whole truth

Posts: 906
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,06:40

I just want to add that I'll accept full responsibility when it comes to any legal matters for any pictures or text that I post here or anywhere else.

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

k.e..

Posts: 2501
Joined: May 2007

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,07:08

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,17:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

Yeah they fluffed it

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~DaveTard suit." dogdidit

Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror. DAVE TARD

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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,07:19

OK, sparc, what I saw in the UD thread was you pointing out the Springer page for the book. Thanks for the explanation.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,08:28

Quote (k.e.. @ Mar. 07 2012,08:08)

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,17:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

Yeah they fluffed it

what a waste, a whole department of fluffers for a couple of permanent priapisms

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,12:12

Bob's post on BI:NP is up at the Guardian.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,12:40

Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.

I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

OgreMkV

Posts: 2922
Joined: Oct. 2009

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,12:43

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,12:40)

Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.

I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian.

Still very insightful and useful to the wider audience.

Well done.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Reciprocating Bill

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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,13:21

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,10:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

In this case premature ejubilation.

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,14:08

Bob O'H must be Dembski's nightmare:

Quote

conducting research at the Biodiversity and Climate Research Centre in Germany

Biodiversity and Climate Research, as if biodiversity weren't enough

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,15:21

I guess I should start working on vaccines too, and complete the set.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

Richardthughes

Posts: 9476
Joined: Jan. 2006

Posted: Mar. 07 2012,16:13

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,12:40)

Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.

I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian.

EXPELLED! EVOMAT THOUGHT POLIC... wait, what?

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,16:16

Quote (midwifetoad @ Mar. 06 2012,09:09)

They woulda got away with it if they hadn't bragged before publication. Premature jubilation.

I beg to differ: they have kept exceptionally quite about the whole thing, only the (automatically generated?) announcement by Springer derailed their plan.

Look how their modus operandi has changed over the last years: Marks's and Dembski's paper "Conservation of Information in Search - Measuring the Cost of Success" was available as a preprint on Marks's homepage, it was announced a couple of times at UncommonDescent, and after years of struggle it appeared in some unrelated journal.

This disadvantage is obvious: public criticism. And boy, they didn't like it.

Nowadays, they try to sneak in their articles in a kind of peer-reviewed journal first. Then they will ignore any critique which isn't itself in form of a peer-reviewed paper. And no one bothers to do so, their math is generally debunked some levels below, in blogs, wikis, etc.

What does this mean if you find an error in their publications? They don't bother! And if you try to correct them via email, you get an answer (if any!) like

Quote

I have a policy not to engage in correspondence with anyone publically critical of me or my work.

Posts: 4122
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Posted: Mar. 07 2012,21:57

The DI held a closed conference in SoCal in 1996 (collection of essays published as "Mere Creation"). They followed that up with a conference in Austin, Texas early in 1997 where they issued a public call for papers and solicited participation of people they believed would hold views counter to their own. The CFP failed to mention "intelligent design". The essays to that conference were posted online, but never collected and formally published.

IIRC, it was in 2000 that the "Polanyi Center" at Baylor hosted the "Nature of Nature" conference that invited in a bunch of big name philosophers. They didn't bother to mention their grinding ax then, either, and still hold a grudge against Barbara Forrest, who wrote a letter to various participants letting them know what they were getting themselves into. A volume finally got published with essays from that conference, but not solely material presented at the conference (again, IIRC).

In 2002, I was denied permission to attend a closed conference at Biola (the "RAPID" conference).

The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,02:14

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57)

[...]The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam.

I see, I inferred a trend because my window of observation was to small. But in reality they are switching between two strategies which both don't work...

carlsonjok

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,05:32

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57)

The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam.

The trend that is evident is the renting of publicly available meeting space at various respected science organizations in order to give their movement a veneer of respectability by basking in the reflected glow of that organization's hard earned reputation.

They did it with their Academic Freedom Day at Sam Noble Museum of Natural History at the University of Oklahoma. They tried to do it with their attempt to show "Darwin's Dilemma" at the California Science Center. And now they did so with Cornell.

Edited by carlsonjok on Mar. 08 2012,05:32

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

k.e..

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,05:33

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 08 2012,00:13)

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,12:40)

Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.

I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian.

EXPELLED! EVOMAT THOUGHT POLIC... wait, what?

They're all worried Julian is just the begining.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~DaveTard suit." dogdidit

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k.e..

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,05:44

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 08 2012,13:32)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57)

The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam.

Well .....really now that just leaves "Scientific American" ....right?

In between the sit on lawn mower and Viagra ads.

It's a pity BYTE busted years ago they could have had a field day.

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his ~~clown~~DaveTard suit." dogdidit

Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror. DAVE TARD

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,07:29

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 08 2012,05:32)

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 07 2012,21:57)

The IDC advocates seem to shift between including and excluding critics. I don't know that we can identify any trend in this from this latest scam.

I don't think that one can support a trend in dishonesty, either. I did mention that their 1997 and 2001 conferences-with-critics did not bother to disclose to the critics just what they were getting into.

And you missed the Smithsonian rental flap from 2005.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,11:57

At least there is a trend to decracy because there was at least a second meeting on which only very little information has been disclosed. What we know is from the videos of Berlinski's daughter Cleire. According to Jeff Shellit's summary at least the following people joined the

Quote

by-invitation only conference in Italy entitled "Great Expectations". It's hard to find anything about this conference online because, you see, it was "secret". But it's not hard to figure out the agenda. After all, the people present seem to have been
- Paul Nelson [...]
- Robert Marks [...]
- David Berlinski [...]
- Moshe Averick [...]
- Stephen Meyer [...]
- Richard von Sternberg [...]
- Michael Denton [...]
- perhaps Jonathan Wells [...]

Since the meeting took place in Italy I was curious if Rivista di Biologica that ID-proponents used befor to publish their drivel might be used to publish conference proceedings. However, from its former home page I've learned that

Quote

With volume 2010 the publication of the journal by Tilgher is over. The journal will be published by Publisher Fabrizio Serra (www.libraweb.net).

Since <a href="www.libraweb.net" target="_blank">libraweb</a> doesn't list the journal and it's already 2011 it appears likely that Rivista silently passed away.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Jkrebs

Posts: 327
Joined: Sep. 2004

Posted: Mar. 08 2012,12:10

And they tried to use the "Kansas Science Standards Hearings" as a way to get equal time with mainstream science in a high profile venue. Real scientists refused to play the game, and so the results (the transcripts were published by the state of Kansas) mainly served to highlight the positions (mostly YEC, and/or deniers of common descent) of the ID advocates who came.

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,12:35

There's a trend. It just happens to be flat.

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... a poster child for irresponsible and deceitful misrepresentation of design theory on the Internet.
http://tinyurl.com/9axtwbe....9axtwbe

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Posted: Mar. 08 2012,13:06

From Todd's blog:

Quote

Meanwhile, over at Panda's Thumb, Nick Matzke is in an uproar over the publication of a book called Biological Information: New Perspectives (BI:NP). In his usual blunt style, Matzke is upset because "Springer gets suckered by creationist pseudoscience." For those of you who don't know, Springer is a well-known academic publisher, the kind that puts out books that cost hundreds of dollars that almost no one will ever read. (May I add, if you think he's upset now, wait till he gets a list of the contributing authors. He might go into an apoplectic seizure.) According to Matzke,

Quote

The major publishers have enough problems at the moment ... it seems like the last thing they should be doing is frittering away their credibility even further by uncritically publishing creationist work and giving it a veneer of respectability. The mega-publishers are expensive, are making money off of largely government-funded work provided to them for free, and then the public doesn’t even have access to it. The only thing they have going for them is quality control and credibility – if they give that away to cranks, there is no reason at all to support them.

I'm not interested in discussing the merit of the work published in BI:NP, but I am struck by the interesting parallel between Matzke's and Redfield's complaints. From the information I have, the content of BI:NP has largely to do with natural selection, population genetics, and evolutionary biology. Yet it's being published in an engineering publication called "Intelligent Systems Reference Library." Other titles in the series cover subjects like how to solve math problems with software, robotics for assisting wheelchair navigation, and artificial neural networks. So it's a computer engineering series, not really something that would normally publish on pop genetics and evolutionary biology. I suppose technically, "biological information" falls within the extended periphery of the "Intelligent Systems Reference Library," but the publication of BI:NP leaves me a bit unsettled.

On the one hand, I understand that the authors of this volume probably believe that they cannot get their work published in conventional biology journals, because of their controversial, anti-evolution conclusions. I completely sympathize. I would love to be able to have some of my creationist ideas intelligently read and critiqued by knowledgeable individuals, rather than dismissively scoffed at by "howler monkeys" (you gotta be a real oldtimer to remember that reference). On the other hand, I'm a firm believer in the value of peer review and scientific publication. If a work is rejected, there's probably a reason for the rejection that we should take seriously. Scientific publication isn't just some political game, where friends get published and enemies get punished. It's not an inalienable right either. If we don't respect the process of peer review and publication, then what's the difference between a scientific publication and a propaganda piece? The price tag?

So I'm feeling unsettled, and I'm prepared for all sorts of rants to be directed my way. My email's listed below. Have at it.

Edited by sparc on Mar. 08 2012,13:09

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 08 2012,22:43

Does anybody know Jonathan D.H. Smith from Iowa State University? According to his web pages (link) he contributed to BI:NP

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Hierarchical information theory and the modeling of biological systems, pp. 419-512 in "Biological Information: New Perspectives" (eds. R.J. Marks II et al.), Springer Intelligent Systems Reference Library, Berlin, 2012.

He even provides a link to a copy of the article.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

The whole truth

Posts: 906
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Mar. 08 2012,23:31

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 07 2012,10:40)

Should have known someone would get there first - I was sent to the cellar to get the incubator.

I had lots of links here and to PT, but they were removed by The Guardian.

Bob, thank you for writing that article and helping to get the word out about the shenanigans of the IDiots. The more people learn of their sneaky games, the better.

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

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Posted: Mar. 09 2012,11:53

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 08 2012,20:43)

Does anybody know Jonathan D.H. Smith from Iowa State University? According to his web pages (link) he contributed to BI:NP

Quote

He even provides a link to a copy of the article.

I just scanned it, and it looked OK.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

Tracy P. Hamilton

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Posted: Mar. 09 2012,12:10

Quote (Dr.GH @ Mar. 09 2012,11:53)

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 08 2012,20:43)

Does anybody know Jonathan D.H. Smith from Iowa State University? According to his web pages (link) he contributed to BI:NP

Quote

He even provides a link to a copy of the article.

I just scanned it, and it looked OK.

Dr. GH, without your comment I would not have looked, assuming it was the usual IDiocy.

I wonder what he thought of the YEC papers at the "conference".

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world." PaV

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Posted: Mar. 10 2012,00:00

Another BI:NP talk was from J Scott Turner, Professor at the State University of New York, Syracuse, College of Environmental Sciences and Forestry, Department of Environmental and Forest Biology:

Quote

A Multiplicity of Memory. Toward a Coherent Theory of Adaptation.
Biological Information—New Perspectives. Cornell University. June 2011

According to his CV it was an invited presentation.

For a start here's what Jeffrey Shallit had to say about Turner back in 2007.

(cross posted at PT)

ETA: based on another source PT already listed him as a contributor to BI:NP

Edited by sparc on Mar. 10 2012,00:34

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: Mar. 10 2012,00:54

Can it be just coincidence that Springer's newest German title is:

Quote

Lügner - Die Wahrheit über das Lügen
(Liars - The truth about lying)

Posts: 1864
Joined: May 2002

Posted: Mar. 10 2012,05:02

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Mar. 09 2012,10:10)

I just scanned it, and it looked OK.[/quote]
Dr. GH, without your comment I would not have looked, assuming it was the usual IDiocy.

I wonder what he thought of the YEC papers at the "conference".

I think that there could have been a handful of actually OK papers. These could have been the bulk of the "review" material.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

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Posted: Mar. 13 2012,23:49

Here's the story in French.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 15 2012,13:21

Ian Iuby’s take on the issue
(posted at PT before)

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 15 2012,13:37

The link resulting from a google search for "biological information: new perspectives" site:amazon.de results in an empty page ON amazon's German pages. Before it looked like this. Searching directly on Amazon.de doesn't give any hit for the book either. However, the book is still listed at Amazon.com.

(cross posted at PT)

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: Mar. 16 2012,03:38

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 15 2012,13:37)

However, the book is still listed at Amazon.com.

(cross posted at PT)

Quote

Available for Pre-order. This item will be released on March 31, 2012

Can this be true? Springer couldn't be planning to make some bucks selling the book to the US creationists while bashfully hiding the mess from their German customers?

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Posted: Mar. 16 2012,07:41

It's more likely that Amazon's (or Springers') system has got screwed up because the book has been delayed.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

fnxtr

Posts: 1806
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Mar. 17 2012,01:14

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 09 2012,22:54)

Can it be just coincidence that Springer's newest German title is:

Quote

Lügner - Die Wahrheit über das Lügen
(Liars - The truth about lying)

Wouldn't be a translation of Al Franken's book, would it?

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

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Posted: Mar. 18 2012,01:40

Mariano Grinbank describing himself as

Quote

an Argentinean-American Jewish Christian

who

Quote

attended private Jewish school and had Bar Mitzvah in Israel

Quote

is involved in Judeo-Christian apologetics as a researcher, essayist and lecturer

and is a self-proclaimed

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Worldview and Science Examiner

examines the "Biological Information: New Perspectives" story at examiner.com- From his self-description and this picture

it was already obvious that he would blow ID's horn -
Nothing new just the usual ID spin.

I don't understand his judo-christian apologetics thing, though. Is he developing his own new bizarre private religion? His disturbing webpage is http://www.truefreethinker.com/....ker....ker.com where we learn that he lectured for the New Mexico devision of the Intelligent Designe network and that before he turned hard core religious he was

Quote

was also involved in the New Age Movement and was a practitioner of Reiki, Tai Chi Chuan, Chi Kung and the I'Ching.

.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: Mar. 18 2012,08:47

that is motherfucking hilarious

i bet we know this genius by some other name

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

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Posted: Mar. 27 2012,11:04

just to push this thread further up again:
We are approaching the scheduled publication date for "BI:NP" (March 31, 2012)
What do you think will happen?

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1188
Joined: Sep. 2009

Posted: Mar. 27 2012,11:46

Quote (sparc @ Mar. 27 2012,11:04)

What do you think will happen?

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

Henry J

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Posted: Mar. 27 2012,12:25

Quote

What do you think will happen?

I don't have that information!

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Posted: April 01 2012,00:25

April 1st just started in the US and at Amazon the book is still in pre-order status. Another site lists it as just published. However, the link there will redirect you to the above mentioned Amazon pages.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

snorkild

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Posted: April 02 2012,07:32

I can't find the book on Springer's homepage. Do I lack searching skills?

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wimp

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Posted: April 02 2012,22:53

While the book is still not available Tom English raises an eyebrow at Springer series editor Janusz Kacprzyk.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: April 03 2012,02:37

Quote (snorkild @ April 02 2012,07:32)

I can't find the book on Springer's homepage. Do I lack searching skills?

Not really, they took it down once a few people pointed out to them the editors were IDists/creationists

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: April 09 2012,00:59

More from the Biological Information: New Perspectives "conference" from Bob Marks' wife's Christmas 2011 greetings:

Quote

Cornell University: Next we drove to Cornell University where Bob was part of a conference called Biological Information – New Perspectives. Bob was a coorganizer
along with famous ID people like William Dembski (The Design Inference and No Free Lunch), Michael Behe (Darwin’s Black Box and The Edge of Evolution), John Sanford (Genetic Entropy & the Mystery of the Genome) and Bruce Gordon (The Nature of Nature). The proceedings of the conference will be published in 2012. Bob thought the conference was a grand success. Bob’s Ph.D. advisor, John Walkup, also came.
John and his wife Pat are full time with Campus Crusade’s professor ministry in the Bay Area focusing on Stanford, Berkeley and San Jose State. Two of Bob’s graduate students, Winston Ewert and George Montañez, were also there so we got a wonderful three generation picture.

On page 3 of the pdf you will find that picture of Marks, Walkup, Ewert and Montañez at the conference in front of some poster.
She also mentions the other not as secret ID conference (Berlinski's daughter reported on it) held in Italy 2011

Quote

Winston Ewert went to Italy with Bob. (I wish I could have gone, but I wanted to see Tristan more that Italy.) In Italy, Bob met Greg Chaitin who is a founder of algorithmic information theory and Chaitin’s number. Bob
and Winston were both very excited to meet him. David Berlinski (The Devil’s Delusion) and Steve Myer (Signature in the Cell) were also there. After the conference, Bob was interviewed by Berlinski’s daughter for the Ricochet blog. The interview is on YouTube.

Edited by sparc on April 09 2012,01:06

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Doc Bill

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Posted: April 09 2012,07:54

Wow, almost makes them seem human. Almost.

And that's what they want you to think.

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Posted: April 10 2012,22:58

During another discussion of the Biological Information: New Perspectives "conference" John Colliers reported on the 2007 ‘Wistar Retrospective Symposium’:

Quote

A few years ago I was sucked into a conference run by the Discovery Institute. Some the ID people were sincere and perhaps naive. One had done their PhD at Cambridge, and another at Northwestern, under David Hull, my own mentor. I was a bit annoyed at finding I had been duped, but was pleased to renew friendships with Dan Brooks, Bob Ulanowicz, Bruce Weber and some others, as well as meeting Gunther Wagner and Steve Chaitin, and hearing Stuart Kauffman's confusion once again about spontaneous self-organization (Prigogine style self organizing systems) and movement to a minimal energy point.

Michael Behe was there, and we talked. He is a nice guy, unlike the cads at the Discovery Institute. I had refereed a paper of his responding to criticism in Philosophy of Science. Since the criticism was both wrong and poorly argued, I thought he must have his say (as did the other reviewer, a prominent philosopher of biology whose name I am pledged not to reveal). A warning to those attacking ID: these people are much brighter than your garden variety creationists, and do be careful that you know what you are talking about, or else you guarantee them a refereed publication. In this case the original paper should never have been published.

Behe conveniently missed my talk in which I mentioned recent work showed that rotary "motors" in bacteria resulted from just two mutations, contrary to Behe's argument that they are too complicated for evolution to produce. I also showed how Rosen's non-reducibility argument applied to the resulting network, which Chaiting remarked was the clearest expression of the idea he had seen. So the meeting was worthwhile. But I still resent being duped.

cross posted at Panda's Thumb

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1866
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: April 28 2012,04:47

I guess I'm not the only one to sign up for a review cop of BI:NP, so a few of us have probably got an email saying that our online review copy is reserved for us:

Quote

Some time ago you reserved an electronic book review copy of "Biological Information: New Perspectives", 978-3-642-28453-3 for you. We are sorry to inform you that this book is not yet available online, but is being reserved for you. You will be informed by email as soon as online access is available.

Clearly they haven't yet decided to ditch the book: my guess is that no decision has been made yet and this is just administrative.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

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Posted: April 28 2012,23:59

I wonder if Springer doesn't have access to Google. It seems quite likely that most of the volume's content has been published before. Thus, critical in depth reviews that are likely to cover most of each of its chapters are already available on the web. E.g., since the announcement of BI:NP Tom English pointed out the fallacy at the core of Dembski's and Marks' active information and Bob Lloyd shredded Sewell's second law musings.
OTOH, Springer is currently experiencing what happens if they don't fulfill the demands of the DI and they may be afraid of additional censorship allegations however unsubstantiated they may be.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: April 29 2012,04:08

I think that would be the job of reviewers, not Springer per se. But I'm sure they were careful about who they asked to review the book this time.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

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Joined: April 2007

Posted: Aug. 28 2012,01:32

Today (here in Germany we have August 28 already) it is 150 days that BI:NP's scheduled publishing date passed.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Joined: April 2007

Posted: Nov. 15 2012,22:59

Limiting Google searches for „Biological Information: New Perspectives“ to one week usually leaves us with links to a single web site, TrueFreethinker, which is one of the most bizarre pages I have encountered. This week self-described Agentinean-American Messianic Jew Mariano Grinbank who was mentioned earlier in this thread posted about the devil and rock music here and here.
Another highlight.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: Nov. 23 2012,04:10

Granville Sewell takes scientific discussion to new heights: He has published a YouTube video in which he tells the sad story of "How the Scientific Consensus is Maintained".

Some minutes into the video, he tells his viewers about

Quote

a 2011Cornell University symposium entitled Biological Information - New Perspectives. .

And later, he repeats this misinformation. By the way, although ID friends were present,

Quote

... I don't recall that Intelligent Design was ever mentioned in the talks ...

Then he whines about the Elsevier's Applied Mathematics Letters affair (mean David vun Kannon! waaah!) and the Springer affair.

Next: Nasty Bob Lloyd attacked him in the Mathematical Intelligencer in March 2012, and Sewell's letter to the editor was rejected - unfair!

Then, he boringly reads out that letter as published in EN&V.

Last complaint: American Journal of Physics rejected his paper, too; it's a conspiracy, surely?

That's the content of 15 minutes of whining, comments are disabled, of course, as they are on UD where he announced the video.

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Glen Davidson

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Posted: Nov. 23 2012,10:10

Or in other words, the scientific consensus is maintained by keeping bad creationist arguments and self-plagiarism out of journals tasked with doing exactly that.

Oh yeah, the jerk whining about censorship isn't even allowing UD's selective commenting to occur in response to his post. Cry another river about not having any right to reply, hypocrite.

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

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Posted: Nov. 23 2012,12:07

Quote (Kattarina98 @ Nov. 23 2012,04:10)

Quote

a 2011Cornell University symposium entitled Biological Information - New Perspectives. .

And later, he repeats this misinformation. By the way, although ID friends were present,

Quote

... I don't recall that Intelligent Design was ever mentioned in the talks ...

Thanks for the link and the summary. I don't have the nerve to listen to the whole thing.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: Nov. 23 2012,12:40

Over at The Skeptical Zone, there is a new post about the video.

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

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Posted: Dec. 05 2012,22:20

According to buecher.de Springer says that "Biological Information: New Perspectives" will not be published:

Quote

Erscheint nicht laut Verlag

Velbrück, a second online book dealer says the same

So does Lehmanns the biggest German book dealer for science books although in other words:

Quote

Titel wird leider nicht erscheinen

Looks like Demski has to update his CV/resume which still says:

Quote

BOOKS

in preparation
• Biological Information: New Perspectives (co-edited with Robert J. Marks II, John Sanford, Michael Behe, and Bruce Gordon). Under contract with Springer Verlag.

edited to correct link to the third image

Edited by sparc on Dec. 05 2012,22:39

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

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Posted: Dec. 05 2012,23:11

Springer seems to have dismissed BI:NP for quite some time already:
According to Lehmanns BI:NP was planned as #38 of the Springer series Intelligent Systems Reference Library which is now occupied by the Handbook of Optimization. According to Amazon the later has already been published on August 19, 2012.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Glen Davidson

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Posted: Dec. 05 2012,23:16

And the Fourth Reich wins!

At least if you believe the high thin whine of outraged incompetence.

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

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Posted: Dec. 06 2012,21:56

The news has spread at theoplogy web and triggered some predictable reaction. After the book had been described as

Quote

fraudulently misrepresenting itself as work from Cornell University

Jorge got mad:

Quote

It was NOT "fraudulently misrepresented", you lying piece of recycled trash. Every title had been submitted to Springer months BEFORE the Symposium. This included authors, abstracts ... etc. Springer approved all materials submitted to them prior to the event and agreed to publish.

What happened was something entirely different than your lying reporting.
It is essentially another example of intellectual censorship based on religious ideology, not on science... another example of EXPELLED.

I certainly am not expecting for you - sick carcass that you are - to comprehend nor accept any of this.

Jorge

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Posted: Dec. 07 2012,01:49

Granville Sewell's recent whining about the Biological Information: New Perspectives desaster can be read as if he already knew then that Springer abonded the publication of the proceedings:

Quote

Since AML still refused to publish my accepted article I went ahead and presented it at the May 2011 Cornell symposium as originally planned and submitted a revised version for inclusion in the proceedings. Nearly a year later in March 2012 the proceedings had been peer reviewed and type set and the book was ready to be printed in accordance with the signed publication agreement with Springer were like. But once again a[???] Darwinist discovered that Springer was about to publish the proceedings and pressured the publisher into delaying and re-considering publication. According to this article these critics admitted not knowing anything about the contents of the proceedings they just noticed that the editors were known intelligent design supporters and based on this alone brought pressure on Springer to withdraw the book. In fact, although the editors and most of the participants were ID-friendly I don’t recall that intelligent design was ever mentioned in the talks though most were critical of Darwinism’s ability to explain the development of biological information. Although this time the protests were not directed specifically against my writing, the protesters didn’t know what was in the book, remember, for a second time my article had been peer reviewed and accepted and close to publication when people who had no reason to be involved in the editorial process succeeded, at least temporarily, in suppressing it. As of today seven later the Amazon.com page for these proceedings still says “sign up to be notified when this item becomes available”. Here is the Amazon.com description of the conference:

Quote

In the spring of 2011, a diverse group of scientists gathered at Cornell University to discuss their research into the nature and origin of biological information. […]Several clear themes emerged from these research papers: 1) Information is indispensable to our understanding of what life is. 2) Biological information is more than the material structures that embody it. 3) Conventional chemical and evolutionary mechanisms seem insufficient to fully explain the labyrinth of information that is life.

There you are, you know more about the proceedings than those who demanded it the publisher withdraw the book in March.

(all emphasis mine, links added)

Edited by sparc on Dec. 07 2012,01:51

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

damitall

Posts: 252
Joined: Jan. 2009

Posted: Dec. 07 2012,03:54

Quote (sparc @ Dec. 06 2012,21:56)

The news has spread at theoplogy web and triggered some predictable reaction. After the book had been described as

Quote

fraudulently misrepresenting itself as work from Cornell University

Jorge got mad:

Quote

I haven't looked at TWeb for some time, but IIRC, Jorge is permanently irate.

It's his ground state.

Posts: 6271
Joined: June 2007

Posted: Dec. 07 2012,09:06

Quote (damitall @ Dec. 07 2012,04:54)

Quote (sparc @ Dec. 06 2012,21:56)

The news has spread at theoplogy web and triggered some predictable reaction. After the book had been described as

Quote

fraudulently misrepresenting itself as work from Cornell University

Jorge got mad:

Quote

I haven't looked at TWeb for some time, but IIRC, Jorge is permanently irate.

It's his ground state.

those are the best kinds of tard. permarage

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Posts: 3140
Joined: Mar. 2008

Posted: Dec. 07 2012,10:27

Jorge is an anagram for r JoeG. Any similarities in style?

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... a poster child for irresponsible and deceitful misrepresentation of design theory on the Internet.
http://tinyurl.com/9axtwbe....9axtwbe

Jim_Wynne

Posts: 687
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 07 2012,10:38

Dembski still hasn't produced the book he was supposed to write to fulfill his Templeton grant obligation from 12 years ago.

ETA: He presently lists Being as Communion as "long overdue" on his CV.

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Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

Henry J

Posts: 3736
Joined: Mar. 2005

Posted: Dec. 07 2012,22:38

Quote

I haven't looked at TWeb for some time, but IIRC, Jorge is permanently irate.

It's his ground state.

So his parents grounded him?

Henry

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Dec. 09 2012,02:56

While Amazon.com and many other US sites still list BI:NP as available or in print UK pickabook states:

Quote

We believe that this item is permanently unavailable, and so we cannot source it.

South-Africa's Red Pepper Books says it more directly:

Quote

Availability: Cancelled

The whole truth

Posts: 906
Joined: Jan. 2012

Posted: Dec. 09 2012,03:24

sparc, thanks for the updates. It appears that Springer isn't going to publish BI:NP. The IDiots are probably looking for another publisher, and I can't help but wonder if they're considering or planning a lawsuit against Springer. Even if they have no chance of winning such a suit they might push it anyway just to get as much 'Expelled' publicity as they can milk from it.

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Fellatio is in fact a type of sodomy - gordon e mullings

I don't even know what that means- "study CSI". - joe g

Joe G is the only person I have ever encountered who could start a fight in an empty room and still manage to lose. - Amadan

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Dec. 09 2012,11:37

Wesley Brewer has removed the four articles planned to be part of the BI:NP proceedings from his webpage. According to Google cache they were still present on November 19, 2012:

fusilier

Posts: 196
Joined: Feb. 2003

Posted: Dec. 09 2012,13:25

Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 07 2012,11:27)

Jorge is an anagram for r JoeG. Any similarities in style?

Don't think so.

Jorge once said his eyes were opened by Kent Hovind videos - and he's a fundigelical Christian.

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fusilier
James 2:24

fnxtr

Posts: 1806
Joined: June 2006

Posted: Dec. 09 2012,15:04

Quote (The whole truth @ Dec. 09 2012,01:24)

Even if they have no chance of winning such a suit they might push it anyway just to get as much 'Expelled' publicity as they can milk from it.

If only the movie had been called "Expressed" there'd have been a pun in there somewhere.

Hardly worth it.

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

Doc Bill

Posts: 966
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Dec. 09 2012,15:47

I don't see the point in writing a book like this other than to say "we have a book coming out soon" and then forget about it.

Who's going to buy a $100-plus book of bullshit essays?

I can't imagine that Marks or Behe want a POS like this on their resume; they get enough from their colleagues as it is. It's not going to further Dr. Dr.'s "career" as an adjunct professor at a bible diploma mill.

So, no money, no bragging rights, no fame - what's the point?

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Feb. 10 2013,15:56

Darwin's Dead Idea and the Man Who Helped Kill It contains a modified version of John Barnham's interview with William Dembski first published on his TheBestSchools.org blog.
At the time of the interview (it was published on January 12, 2012) Dembski was expecting that the proceedings of the secret meeting of ID-creationists at Cornell University would be published by Springer. Luckily, Biological Information: New Perspectives didn't appear and they thus removed Dembski’s following statement from the current version of the interview:

Quote

For instance, I have a very substantial anthology coming out with a major academic publisher, but I’m not at liberty to say where until it actually comes out, because Darwinists have the disturbing habit of trying to get publication agreements for ID-friendly literature revoked.

I hope he knows that we found the first evidence for Biological Information: New Perspectives in his CV on his own designinference.com pages.

(edited to correct tags)

Edited by sparc on Feb. 10 2013,23:23

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

stevestory

Posts: 8344
Joined: Oct. 2005

Posted: Feb. 10 2013,17:06

oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious

Quote

Book Description
Publication Date: January 4, 2013
"Darwin’s Dead Idea and the Man Who Helped Kill It" makes for highly engaging reading. Witness the fascinating journey of a smart, inquisitive adolescent rejecting his school’s ask-no-questions religious indoctrination into a mathematician, philosopher, and scientist of the highest order, one who today is powerfully and persuasively challenging academia’s reigning answer to the questions that haunt us all: Where did we come from? Why is there something rather than nothing? A leading spokesman for the scientific theory that is shattering materialist assumptions about reality and the origin of life, Dr. William Dembski responds to probing questions from James Barham, general editor of TheBestSchools.org. That interview forms the core of DDI. Dembski’s forthright and humbly restrained responses reveal the courage, perseverance, and original thinking that have made him a lightning rod in the scientific community. The heated controversy surrounding intelligent design theory dramatically confirms Machiavelli’s observation that there is nothing more difficult to carry out nor more doubtful of success, nor more dangerous to handle, than to initiate a new order of things. DDI introduces readers to one of the stellar lights of the new order of things now emerging on the horizon.

Wonderfully 'humbly restrained' of them, ain't it?

Glen Davidson

Posts: 565
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Feb. 10 2013,17:17

Quote

made him a lightning rod in the scientific community

One kind of rod, anyhow.

And really, like he's anything in the scientific community. Not even much of anything in the kook community, the only one that cares about him at all, aside from those of us who apparently enjoy laughing at old jokes.

Somehow I keep expecting slightly more honesty from these buffoons, mainly because the lies haven't done much for them. But lying seems to be all that they know to do.

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Doc Bill

Posts: 966
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Feb. 10 2013,18:16

I guess we're not at rock bottom! And here I thought being an adjunct "professor" at a North Carolina correspondence Bible college was rock bottom!

Just think, when collecting unemployment is a step above what you're currently doing is not rock bottom, that's a rocky bottom.

So, Dembski is reduced to charging $5 for a Kindle version of a year-old blog posting freely available, still, on the Internet. Srsly, Dembski, this is "leading edge" stuff? And edited by the folks who brought you Of Pandas and People, how nice!

For five bucks, Dembski, you should at least create an ID app. Call it:

Angry Tards

Ptaylor

Posts: 788
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Feb. 10 2013,19:13

Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,10:06)

oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious

And guess who has turned up in the reviewers' comments there? Hint: "ID is NOT anti-evolution."

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"TSZ is just a pathetic little echo chamber." - Joe (G), UD, 5 April 2013

Posts: 6271
Joined: June 2007

Posted: Feb. 10 2013,23:34

Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 10 2013,18:06)

oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious

Quote

Wonderfully 'humbly restrained' of them, ain't it?

50 bucks says he wrote it

ETA It's monopoly money, bitches, I don't actually GAF :D

Edited by Erasmus, FCD on Feb. 11 2013,00:35

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

JohnW

Posts: 1932
Joined: Aug. 2006

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,00:36

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 10 2013,21:34)

50 bucks says he wrote it

Quote

Witness the fascinating journey of a smart, inquisitive adolescent rejecting his school’s ask-no-questions religious indoctrination into a mathematician, philosopher, and scientist of the highest order, one who today is powerfully and persuasively challenging academia’s reigning answer to the questions that haunt us all: Where did we come from? Why is there something rather than nothing?

That's an O'Leary sentence, or I'm a duck.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

Doc Bill

Posts: 966
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,08:32

Yeah, that sounds Dense enough; highly compacted bullshit.

Besides, the original interview was posted on the blog where Dense hangs out now.

Just imagine a threesome between Dumbski, Dense and Buell.

(I know, Jon or Linda - doesn't matter.)

Posts: 197
Joined: May 2008

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,09:20

Quote (Doc Bill @ Feb. 11 2013,14:32)

And Denyse uses the handle "news" at UncommonDescent...

5.08$ for 74 pages Dembski? *Shudder*

Edited by DiEb on Feb. 11 2013,15:22

Woodbine

Posts: 454
Joined: June 2007

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,12:55

Quote

.....and a scientist of the highest order,

Fuck me.

Glen Davidson

Posts: 565
Joined: May 2006

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,13:25

Quote (Woodbine @ Feb. 11 2013,12:55)

Quote

.....and a scientist of the highest order,

Fuck me.

Well, of course.

Theology being the queen of sciences, Dembski's apologetics make him into a scientist of the highest order.

In ID terms...

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

Robin

Posts: 1359
Joined: Sep. 2009

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,13:56

Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 10 2013,19:13)

Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,10:06)

oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious

And guess who has turned up in the reviewers' comments there? Hint: "ID is NOT anti-evolution."

Poor Joe:

Initial post: Feb 10, 2013 6:59:29 AM PST
Joseph Gallien says:
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Permalink | Report abuse | Ignore this customer
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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed. Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

OgreMkV

Posts: 2922
Joined: Oct. 2009

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,14:08

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 11 2013,13:56)

Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 10 2013,19:13)

Quote (stevestory @ Feb. 11 2013,10:06)

oh god sparc that book description at amazon is hilarious

And guess who has turned up in the reviewers' comments there? Hint: "ID is NOT anti-evolution."

I voted it down. I chose not to engage with Joe anymore.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

Doc Bill

Posts: 966
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Feb. 11 2013,17:37

I signed into my Amazon account and voted Joe G's comments down, too.

They're disappearing so fast you'd think DaveScot was running Amazon!

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007

Posted: Mar. 09 2013,00:42

Searching for BI:NP doesn't result in much news but I found a nice (if true) story about J. Sandford in an still ongoing discussion:

Quote

There is also a beautiful story about John Sanford, I have a friend who was a post doc at Cornell and on one of the few occasions Sanford went there, he was met with a queue of Bioscience students, who all wanted him to sign a book. I guess he thought, one of his books. No, they all had books such Barney the Dinosaur and the Junior Dinosaur picture book. After about 2 minutes he went bright red (as I imagine longloadr does!) and ran from the campus in tears, so upset he could not drive his own car, and had to be driven home by campus security.

ETA: Today's the first anniversary of this thread.

Edited by sparc on Mar. 10 2013,10:24

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

Posts: 1469
Joined: April 2007