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dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,15:42   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 09 2008,14:05)
RTH loves Heddle pt 2:

Here I am defending him over at Abbie's.

???

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2008/07/green_buttocks.php

Can we start a 'help fund(ie)' for me. Or an intervention.
Or something?

ETA: this isn't fair on Dave:

 
Quote
Dear heddie:

Your "anti-Dembski street-creds" are nonexistent to say the least. If they did exist, then I'd see them cited at Panda's Thumb and elsewhere. As for myself, I will only note that at least one prominent ID critic approves of my online conduct against Dembski.

And yes, I do hope that Dembski is "scared of me". I want him to be afraid, very afraid, of me. Why? It's time he receives an ample dose of the "medicine" that he's been dispensing towards his critics for years. Indeed, for his own despicable behavior towards me, he owes me a used black Leica M7 rangefinder camera in near mint to mint condition and several brand new Zeiss Leica M-mount lenses.

Live Long and Prosper (as a DI IDiot Borg drone),

John Kwok

I just read John Kwok's pseudo-review of DDrr.. Dembski's latest. I'm sorry, the man is easily as irritating in his style as many a tardmeister and is in the running for the David Mabus You Owe Me award for his insistence on a Leica M7. My 2c...

--------------
I知 referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I知 not an evolutionist, I知 a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,16:00   

Quote (simmi @ July 09 2008,08:49)
Quote (WmAD @ UD)
... Question: If ideas are like stocks, would this be a good time to invest in ID?


Classic case of survivor bias. Yes, they laughed at Copernicus, Galileo, Einstein, Lemaitre, etc. They also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

To all would-be UD investors: the skill comes in picking *valuable* stocks when their prices are low. Some stocks are cheap for a reason.

Actually, as Michael Milken proved in junk bonds and as stock index funds show, just buy them all. No one can consistently value and time trades in individual stocks better than the market. (And if Templeton had $10,000 in 1934, it's just an example of the rich getting richer.)

Unfortunately, it's not a strategy you can apply to Pascal's Wager, too many jealous gods out there...

But in the marketplace of ideas, the investing man would put some money on Paley in 1802, and then done the same with Darwin in 1859 and then just let the investments grow! No need to reinvest in Paley now when the initial investment has yet to pay dividends.

--------------
I知 referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I知 not an evolutionist, I知 a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
simmi



Posts: 38
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,16:11   

Quote (dvunkannon @ July 09 2008,16:00)
 
Quote (simmi @ July 09 2008,08:49)
 
Quote (WmAD @ UD)
... Question: If ideas are like stocks, would this be a good time to invest in ID?


Classic case of survivor bias. Yes, they laughed at Copernicus, Galileo, Einstein, Lemaitre, etc. They also laughed at Bozo the Clown.

To all would-be UD investors: the skill comes in picking *valuable* stocks when their prices are low. Some stocks are cheap for a reason.

Actually, as Michael Milken proved in junk bonds and as stock index funds show, just buy them all. No one can consistently value and time trades in individual stocks better than the market. (And if Templeton had $10,000 in 1934, it's just an example of the rich getting richer.)

Unfortunately, it's not a strategy you can apply to Pascal's Wager, too many jealous gods out there...

But in the marketplace of ideas, the investing man would put some money on Paley in 1802, and then done the same with Darwin in 1859 and then just let the investments grow! No need to reinvest in Paley now when the initial investment has yet to pay dividends.

Ah but investing in ID now is reinvesting in Paley. Probably why the price is low.

disclaimer: I'm predicting future performance based on past results.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,17:35   

Dudes!  The speaker in the ceiling is back again!!!

 
Quote

9
scordova
07/09/2008
1:01 pm

Here are more maladaptive behaviors which have escaped the policing of Darwinian Selection:

link deleted: that was highly inappropriate in graphic content, scordova. I致e banned for less. DO NOT link to anything like that here ever again. My apologies to anyone who clicked it and found it offensive. -ds

As Darwinist John(now Joan after a sex change) Roughgarden pointed out, the persistence of homosexuality in various animals is damaging to arguments in favor of Darwinismin a perverse sort of way, then, the persistence of homosexuality and other maladapted phenotypes is evidence against the supposed power of natural selection, and thus suggests ID is a more adequate explanation for biology.

From the context, as well as Sal's persistent fascination with Joan Roughgarden and Lou FCD's red dress, we can probably guess what he was linking to.

And, then, OMFG, Dave goes on to suggest that the presence of homoexuality in populations is better explained by ID than by evolution.  ZOMG! Teh gayz are dezined.  And here all this time I thought it was a lifestyle choice!

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2777
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,17:46   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,17:35)
Dudes! The speaker in the ceiling is back again!!!

Quote

9
scordova
07/09/2008
1:01 pm

Here are more maladaptive behaviors which have escaped the policing of Darwinian Selection:

link deleted: that was highly inappropriate in graphic content, scordova. I致e banned for less. DO NOT link to anything like that here ever again. My apologies to anyone who clicked it and found it offensive. -ds

As Darwinist John(now Joan after a sex change) Roughgarden pointed out, the persistence of homosexuality in various animals is damaging to arguments in favor of Darwinismin a perverse sort of way, then, the persistence of homosexuality and other maladapted phenotypes is evidence against the supposed power of natural selection, and thus suggests ID is a more adequate explanation for biology.

From the context, as well as Sal's persistent fascination with Joan Roughgarden and Lou FCD's red dress, we can probably guess what he was linking to.

And, then, OMFG, Dave goes on to suggest that the presence of homoexuality in populations is better explained by ID than by evolution. ZOMG! Teh gayz are dezined. And here all this time I thought it was a lifestyle choice!

Further along in that OMFG thread, Sal hits a new all-time low.  
Quote
As far as human male homosexuals, it is my understanding (according to Dr. James Dobson) that it is a frequent practice among them to consume each others feces. Certain rodent species (like rabbits) eat their own feces, but I don稚 know if gay rabbits eat each others feces like gay Darwinist men do.

Quoting Dobson. Gay rabbits. Gay Darwinists.

How deep is thy closet, o Sal?

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
- Pattiann Rogers

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,18:12   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,17:35)
From the context, as well as Sal's persistent fascination with Joan Roughgarden and Lou FCD's red dress, we can probably guess what he was linking to.

Well guess no further. Sal has his masterpiece up over at Young Cosmos.  What an interesting man he is.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it. We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 986
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,18:36   

In his rigorous pursuit of peer-review literature that disproves an evolutionary explanation of homosexuality, Sal must have just overlooked this paper. Right?

Quote
Our results help clarify the basic evolutionary dynamics of male homosexuality, establishing this as a clearly ascertained sexually antagonistic human trait.


--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,19:44   

http://www.uncommondescent.com/off-top....-292207

Quote
...I feel sorry for kids being exposed to this sort of behavior, and I知 disturbed at the fact that people like Ed Brayton advocate gay couples adopting kids. That痴 sort of where I draw the line. However, if gay men want to eat each others feces, give AIDS to each other via consent, I see no reason to stop them as long as taxpayers don稚 have to pay for the medical expenses for the consequences of their deviant behaviors.


Sometimes the remoteness of the internet is a good thing. Given Sal's history I'd attribute that to malice not ignorance and naturally select him out of the pool.

Sal, when you 'come out', I'm going to feel very very sorry... for the gay community.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
simmi



Posts: 38
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,20:00   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 09 2008,19:44)

Given Sal's history I'd attribute that to malice not ignorance and naturally select him out of the pool.

Given his history with JanieBelle, I'd say he's already being pretty heavily selected against (sexually, not naturally).

[/nasty]

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,21:36   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,16:12)
Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,17:35)
From the context, as well as Sal's persistent fascination with Joan Roughgarden and Lou FCD's red dress, we can probably guess what he was linking to.

Well guess no further. Sal has his masterpiece up over at Young Cosmos. What an interesting man he is.

I hear he really likes gladiator films.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 877
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,21:38   

Wow, this must be a first - Sal Cordova has been hit with the bannination stick (if only temporarily):

 
Quote
12

DaveScot
07/09/2008
9:16 pm

stcordova痴 last comment was deleted for inappropriate graphic sexual content and he, for the time being, is no longer with us.


Edit: Darn! Beaten to it again by olegt over on the BlogCzar years thread.

--------------
典o surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today. - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5374
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,21:57   

Well, as if anyone needed confirmation, I'd say Sal is definitely living up to the title of Asshole of the Year.

Wear the crown proudly, Sal.  

I look forward to mocking you mercilessly on the day you get caught with your "wide stance" in the airport men's room.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 986
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 09 2008,23:18   

Quote (Ptaylor @ July 09 2008,21:38)
Wow, this must be a first - Sal Cordova has been hit with the bannination stick (if only temporarily):

 
Quote
12

DaveScot
07/09/2008
9:16 pm

stcordova痴 last comment was deleted for inappropriate graphic sexual content and he, for the time being, is no longer with us.

Even DaveTard knows not to bother with a permanent ban. Sal's like one of those slasher-movie villains. No matter what happens to him, he'll be back in the sequel.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
jeffox



Posts: 524
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,02:43   

(Sorry, but I just can't resist this)   :)   :)   :)

OK, think of an obscure Queen song (hint:  theme song for a fairly bad early '80s flick) & try these lyrics:  

SAL!!
Ahhh ahhh
Asshole of the universe!!

SAL!!
Ahhh ahhh
Asshat to us all!

Ya, ya, truly bad stuff; but you could say that :)  I was inspired.

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 197
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,03:45   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,18:12)
 
Quote (carlsonjok @ July 09 2008,17:35)
From the context, as well as Sal's persistent fascination with Joan Roughgarden and Lou FCD's red dress, we can probably guess what he was linking to.

Well guess no further. Sal has his masterpiece up over at Young Cosmos. What an interesting man he is.

Its perfectly normal and completely straight to browse gay news and read stuff about eating other man's poo. Are you with me, Sal?

Sal?

--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I知 a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1648
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,05:59   

Young Salvador:
Quote
As Darwinist John(now Joan after a sex change) Roughgarden pointed out, the persistence of homosexuality in various animals is damaging to arguments in favor of Darwinismin a perverse sort of way, then, the persistence of homosexuality and other maladapted phenotypes is evidence against the supposed power of natural selection, and thus suggests ID is a more adequate explanation for biology.

Sal, it doesn't much matter what men do, the reproductive limits are set by women, who can only produce a few children in their lives. Since one man can easily keep dozens of women pregnant and since humans have been polygamist through most of their history (see the Old Testament for details*), we've generally had a lot of surplus men who might as well go f--- each other, because there ain't no wimmen for them.

* Abraham, Jacob, Esau, Deut 25:5, David and Solomon to mention just a few Biblical Polygamists. Maybe Mormonism is the true religion? And let's not even go into concubines.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. Edward Feser

羨nything is a 途eal possibility in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious. William J Murray

  
jeannot



Posts: 1200
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:25   

Quote (CeilingCat @ July 10 2008,05:59)
Young Salvador:
Quote
As Darwinist John(now Joan after a sex change) Roughgarden pointed out, the persistence of homosexuality in various animals is damaging to arguments in favor of Darwinismin a perverse sort of way, then, the persistence of homosexuality and other maladapted phenotypes is evidence against the supposed power of natural selection, and thus suggests ID is a more adequate explanation for biology.

Sal, it doesn't much matter what men do, the reproductive limits are set by women, who can only produce a few children in their lives.

That doesn't solve the problem of male homosexuality in itself. For a population or species point of view, homosexuals don't matter much indeed, but selection acts at the gene level and an allele for homosexuality would still be selected against.
To explain its persistence, we need more complex models involving cost and benefits at several genes.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1648
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:34   

UD has weighed in on the Kwok-Heddle fight. And of course, being UD, they have "settled" the argument by making an Ugly Picture of Kwok.

We can't fight these people, they're much too smart for us. Can anybody name even one science-minded adult who would have thought this one up?

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. Edward Feser

羨nything is a 途eal possibility in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious. William J Murray

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1648
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:36   

jeannot, I think that's a little too deep for the UD crowd. Stick to the polygamy and maybe bring up Biblical Concubines if their attention flags.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. Edward Feser

羨nything is a 途eal possibility in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious. William J Murray

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1648
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:47   

UDers (except Sal, who should look away):

Get a copy of "Why Is Sex Fun?: The Evolution Of Human Sexuality" by Jared Diamond. Read the chapter on the incredible gymnastics a human fetus has to go through to change what would otherwise develop into a female baby into a male. It's really a mess, with one gene on the Y chromosome causing one hormone to be expressed, which makes some changes to the fetus that causes another hormone to be expressed, which makes some changes to the fetus that causes a third hormone to be expressed, etc, etc, etc.

At the end of all that rigamarole, the female's ovarys are converted into testicles [extra points: find out what the connection is between "testicles" and "testament" and see if you ever look at the Bible the same way again], the clitoris is converted into a penis, I forget what is converted into a prostate gland and half a dozen other female-type thingys are converted into male-type thingys.

And then reflect on this: despite all this Rube Goldberg dinking around, somewhere around 90% of all men end up being attracted to women and vice-versa. Talk about a miracle!

You can call that evidence for Intelligent Design if you want to. It's no worse than your other 'evidence'.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. Edward Feser

羨nything is a 途eal possibility in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious. William J Murray

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:51   

Quote (jeannot @ July 10 2008,07:25)
 
Quote (CeilingCat @ July 10 2008,05:59)
Young Salvador:  
Quote
As Darwinist John(now Joan after a sex change) Roughgarden pointed out, the persistence of homosexuality in various animals is damaging to arguments in favor of Darwinismin a perverse sort of way, then, the persistence of homosexuality and other maladapted phenotypes is evidence against the supposed power of natural selection, and thus suggests ID is a more adequate explanation for biology.

Sal, it doesn't much matter what men do, the reproductive limits are set by women, who can only produce a few children in their lives.

That doesn't solve the problem of male homosexuality in itself. For a population or species point of view, homosexuals don't matter much indeed, but selection acts at the gene level and an allele for homosexuality would still be selected against.
To explain its persistence, we need more complex models involving cost and benefits at several genes.

Seems to me I heard (on NPR) a report of research indicating that the first degree female relatives of homosexual men tend to have more offspring than controls. Hence genes that result in reproductive success in women also result in a higher frequency of homosexuality among their male first degree relatives. This accounts for the evolutionary persistence of a genetic factor underlying homosexuality.

(Googles a bit)

Here.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1648
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:54   

jeannot, one more point (Sal, look away again. You don't want to know this)

I don't think there's a very big genetic componant to homosexuality. I know that if you have an identical twin, and he is gay, your chances of being gay are slightly higher than average, but nowhere near certain. And yet you and your twin have identical DNA.

I lean more towards, "Look at that! Over 90 percent come out attracted to the opposite sex!  Amazing!"

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. Edward Feser

羨nything is a 途eal possibility in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious. William J Murray

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4230
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,06:54   

Quote (CeilingCat @ July 10 2008,07:47)
UDers (except Sal, who should look away):

Get a copy of "Why Is Sex Fun?: The Evolution Of Human Sexuality" by Jared Diamond. Read the chapter on the incredible gymnastics a human fetus has to go through to change what would otherwise develop into a female baby into a male. It's really a mess, with one gene on the Y chromosome causing one hormone to be expressed, which makes some changes to the fetus that causes another hormone to be expressed, which makes some changes to the fetus that causes a third hormone to be expressed, etc, etc, etc.

At the end of all that rigamarole, the female's ovarys are converted into testicles [extra points: find out what the connection is between "testicles" and "testament" and see if you ever look at the Bible the same way again], the clitoris is converted into a penis, I forget what is converted into a prostate gland and half a dozen other female-type thingys are converted into male-type thingys.

And then reflect on this: despite all this Rube Goldberg dinking around, somewhere around 90% of all men end up being attracted to women and vice-versa. Talk about a miracle!

You can call that evidence for Intelligent Design if you want to. It's no worse than your other 'evidence'.

Not to mention (I'm sure Diamond does) the androgenization of the male brain during fetal development while these various physical contortions are completed.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,07:16   

Sal's back:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/evoluti....-292234

Quoting Remine talking about "evolutionist Bob O'H"

Quote
[font='Comic Sans MS']76

scordova

07/10/2008

6:23 am
Walter ReMine just e-mailed me and asked me to post the following:

I wrote: Fisher痴 Fundamental Theorem of Natural Selection holds true only when growth rates are constant and unchanging.

Quote
Evolutionist Bob O辿 responds:
As for ReMine, he痴 wrong, [Fisher's theorem] still holds if growth rates change, but the changing growth rates have to be accounted for. As I致e already pointed out, Fisher痴 Fundamental Theorem is a short-term theorem. (Bob O辿, 04/05/2008)


Bob O辿 is mistaken. For example, take a population before and after harmful mutation(s) occur. The theorem applies in both cases(so long as you account the appropriate growth rates), and in both cases it correctly gives the rate of increase of the average growth rate. The theorem UNIVERSALLY ALWAYS gives a NON-NEGATIVE growth rate. However, the theorem does not account for the DECREASE in growth rate due to the harmful mutation(s). Fisher痴 theorem does not account for the moments when the growth rates change.

That example was for instantaneous moments where the growth rates change (at the instants where mutations occur). Next take an example of continuous smooth change. Take a population with a given variance in growth rates, and slowly over time, decrease the growth rates while keeping the variance constant. Across all time, Fisher痴 theorem indicates the same positive rate of increase of the average growth rate when in fact the average growth rate is decreasing. Fisher痴 theorem again gives the wrong result. As I said, Fisher痴 Theorem applies only when growth rates are constant and unchanging.

Another point should be mentioned here. Evolutionist Bob O辿 said 鍍he the changing growth rates have to be accounted for. In fact evolutionists rarely (never?!) account for that, (except in purely theoretical head-exercises), for they would have to account for the abundance of mutations in nature. The primary use of 擢isher痴 Fundamental Theorem of Natural Selection is to create hype for evolution, which is not supported by the theorem.

Walter ReMine


I had the privilege of conferencing with Walter 2 weeks ago in St. Paul, MN. There will be more developments with respect to population genetics.</span>


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,08:05   

Musta been a miniban.

Here are some pertinent thoughts by Dave expressed recently at TT:
Quote
re; Sal

I've seen him do some egregious quote mining and I'm pretty sure I mentioned it in a negative way at least once in a comment under a UD article he wrote.

No one is perfect. On the plus side Sal is fairly well informed, works diligently for the cause, and he bends over backwards trying not to offend anyone. He's a really nice person as far as I know and there is definitely a dearth of nicety in both camps.

I'm the one that made him an author on UD by the way so don't blame Dembski. I have no idea whether or not Bill approved of the action. There has been a time or two when I was tempted to undo what I did but the feeling passed quickly.


--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout サ

  
slpage



Posts: 349
Joined: June 2004

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,08:12   

So Sally the closeted IDiot 'conferenced' with ReMine a few weeks ago - I wonder if ReMine went to he big Evolution meeting there and told everyone present how they are all wrong and that he, Walter J. ReMine, electrical engineer, YEC, expert on all things, is right and evolution is wrong.

Sally just loves stroking ReMines.... ego....

  
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,08:36   

Quote (CeilingCat @ July 10 2008,06:34)
UD has weighed in on the Kwok-Heddle fight.  And of course, being UD, they have "settled" the argument by making an Ugly Picture of Kwok.

We can't fight these people, they're much too smart for us.  Can anybody name even one science-minded adult who would have thought this one up?

Davescot forgets that UD's policies don't extend to the civilised world:

Quote
I wonder if Abbie 撤otty Mouth Smith will do him a big favor and flush this down the memory hole (in the words of Jerry Pournelle) 迭eal Soon Now.


Denys o'reality made me laugh, however.

Quote
*He once referred to this site as 填sually Down (due to server problems, as it happens) and he seemed not to understand when I was making a joke. (But - it must be admitted - the Canadian sense of humour can be recessive.)


It must be a curse to be such a fantastic writer and have no humour with to have express it which.

PS. Kwok really is looking like a twat.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,08:37   

DaveTard, of "attack the idea, not the man" fame:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/educati....-292238

 
Quote
3

DaveScot

07/10/2008

8:27 am
Comer appears to be hispanic. This can稚 be going over well with her family, especially the older members, who are undoutedly all Catholic with deeply rooted belief in God. I should know that culture as I致e been married to a hispanic woman in the same town as Comer for 30 years.

The group she was shilling for, CFI-Austin, is a bunch of punk-ass obnoxious anglos (every last one of them is white and I accused them of being a racist organization when I discovered there wasn稚 a single brown face in the whole lot of them) with chips on their shoulders. Comer has either lost her mind or her heritage shilling for those racist flaming anti-God crusading asshats.


I bet they don't have any Inuits either... or Arabs. You go get them on their 'crusade' against, erm, religion. Dave, you are a monumental twat, sunshine.

edits for spellink and stuffs.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Venus Mousetrap



Posts: 201
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,08:54   

Quote (Venus Mousetrap @ July 10 2008,08:36)
Quote (CeilingCat @ July 10 2008,06:34)
UD has weighed in on the Kwok-Heddle fight.  And of course, being UD, they have "settled" the argument by making an Ugly Picture of Kwok.

We can't fight these people, they're much too smart for us.  Can anybody name even one science-minded adult who would have thought this one up?

Davescot forgets that UD's policies don't extend to the civilised world:

 
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I wonder if Abbie 撤otty Mouth Smith will do him a big favor and flush this down the memory hole (in the words of Jerry Pournelle) 迭eal Soon Now.


Denys o'reality made me laugh, however.

 
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*He once referred to this site as 填sually Down (due to server problems, as it happens) and he seemed not to understand when I was making a joke. (But - it must be admitted - the Canadian sense of humour can be recessive.)


It must be a curse to be such a fantastic writer and have no humour with to have express it which.

PS. Kwok really is looking like a twat.

Forget what I just said.

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4

kairosfocus

07/10/2008

7:15 am

H知m:

What strikes me is the vast gap between the substance of the book and the presentation and comments on it in the linked blog post.

I began to wonder what was going on when I saw, in the original post not counting the 鼎reationism mislabelling, that is now a standard slander/smear the following: 添ou just KNOW their bizarrely erotic book on Creationism for kids is gonna be something new and awesome!

It turns out, that some sicko in an onward linked page has turned a picture of the simulation of life in the cell and issue well worth serious reflection on into a nasty distortion. That tells us a lot about the level and mindset involved.

In such a delusional, slanderous, contemptuous, un-civil, Plato痴 Cave environment and Mr John Kwok, this especially and with abundant reason means YOU it is unsurprising that one who stands up for so basic a point as that one should READ a book before reviewing it, is now himself attacked.

Sad, but utterly revealing.

I found this comment particularly illuminating by way of sad contrast:

   I downloaded the sample chapter and made it about four pages into it before the lies, distortions and down right [XXXX] made me so angry I couldn稚 read on. These people are claiming the moral high ground but seem to have no issue with lying to children. It makes me sick.

   Posted by: Anderw Dart July 3, 2008 11:27 AM

Now, after a bit of follow-up broken link I have found and looked at the sample chapter. It is a motivating and context-setting discussion about worldview level challenges faced by teens and college students, and of how issues connected to Intelligent Design are relevant to that set of challenges.

It is plain from the chapter that Mr Dart, sadly, cannot distinguish between disagreement and deception; he also seems to wish to reject what appears to be real cases of people facing challenges to their worldview because of one-sided presentations on the science, as if this is lying that is where the chapter starts. And, he directly illustrates the point Aristotle warned of in his The Rhetoric: 徹ur judgements when we are pleased and friendly are very different from those we make when we are pained and hostile.

Mr Dart, rage is a BLINDING emotion. Please calm down and think again.

[BTW, I did think that the reference to Darwisnims as "propaganda" [p. 15, 6 of 20 in the PDF] was a bit overblown, as it to easily invites the inference that genuine science is the same as evolutionary materialist/ Naturalistic Scientism. Mind you, the context does make the point that this is in a phil and rhetorical/ 兎ducational/ advocacy not a sci context. But we must recognise the real reading level of those we are dealing with!]

Note to original poster: ERV, one who holds a PhD in philosophy, i.e. Dr Wm A Dembski, is plainly qualified to speak on worldviews matters. And, he is qualified to do so to teens and their parents who are concerned that Science is being hijacked in service to atheism.

GEM of TKI

PS: ERV, there is much more to the story of modernist theology and its promotion of unwarranted, worldview level question-begging hyper-skepticism than you seem to be aware of.


I'm glad someone on UD knows about theology. I was getting bored with all the science.

  
Gunthernacus



Posts: 232
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 10 2008,09:00   

Quote (olegt @ July 10 2008,09:05)

Here are some pertinent thoughts by Dave expressed recently at TT:
Quote
On the plus side Sal is fairly well informed, works diligently for the cause, and he bends over backwards* trying not to offend anyone.

Sal is "on the plus side"? Maybe that is why he and FtK get along so well.

* Insert gay joke here about bending over backwards**

** Append additional gay joke about inserting gay jokes

--------------
Given that we are all descended from Adam and Eve...genetic defects as a result of intra-family marriage would not begin to crop up until after the first few dozen generations. - Dr. Hugh Ross

  
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