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dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2007,21:21   

Quote
Global warming from CO2 is a feedback process.

Correct for the past ice ages where we see a significant lag in CO2 concentrations vs. temperature rise.

However things are a bit different now than then.  In the preindustrial era , CO2 in the atmosphere increased when natural events kicked things out of equilibrium, for instance warming due to wobbles in the earth's orbit, leading to more CO2 being released by warmer oceans than they absorb until things again reach equilibrium.

Humans have learned a new way to kick things out of equilibrium: significantly increase the CO2 in the atmosphere by burning fossil fuels.  In the current scenario, CO2 is forcing warming, not increasing as a feedback result of warming due to cyclical wobbling of the earth in orbit, etc.

Warming by CO2 is the same in either case ... it's basic physics, and the physics has been known for 150 years or so ...

As the climate scientists like to say ... if increased CO2 doesn't cause warming, you need to disprove some very basic physics that's been around for a long time.

  
Freelurker



Posts: 80
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2007,22:34   

Richardthughes:  
Quote
Vernor vinge, father of the singularity singularity, cites engineers as the reason we might not make more reductionist progress into finding 'the software for the soul"

http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=memelist.html?m=1%23696

That's right!
[throws fruit at engineers] get some biologists in there with the neural networks and whatnots. These engineers are an anachronism from the industrial age that have not evolved to be competitive in the new information age environment!

*wink*


I guess you're right; we engineers are just too used to using a materialist perspective in our work. We'll leave it to the biologists to go looking for souls. :D

[BTW, Thanks for the link!]

--------------
Invoking intelligent design in science is like invoking gremlins in engineering. [after Mark Isaak.]
All models are wrong, some models are useful. - George E. P. Box

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10312
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2007,23:20   

Ha ha Fundies:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/evangelical.rift/index.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
djmullen



Posts: 327
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2007,23:34   

Courtesy of Talk Reason: How Ann Coulter Exposed the Intelligent Design Movement.

"Ann Coulter's treatment of evolutionary biology in her book Godless is best interpreted as a hoax, providing a scathing satire of the antievolution community.

By Peter Olofsson"

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2007,23:50   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 14 2007,20:05)
Lou and y'all, check out this. JAD is claiming that PZ's taking down the Molly thread so that he can't see it. :D

I see that 'Brainstorms' has devolved into a slow-motion stroke session between Borat Martin and Javison. I was wondering what was up with the senile old fuck these days...

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 14 2007,23:52   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 15 2007,06:20)
Ha ha Fundies:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/evangelical.rift/index.html

Quote
....However, the association board not only stood behind Cizik[Washington based Evangelical Global Meltdown lobbyist] , but also further broadened the group's agenda with a statement condemning torture, which charged that in pursuing the war on terror, the United States had crossed "boundaries of what is legally and morally permissible."

But one of the board members, the Rev. Paul de Vries, said, "It ought to be God's agenda, not the Republican Party's agenda, that drives us.

"We're actually tired of being represented by people with a very narrow focus," he said. "We want to have a focus as big as God's focus."



Geez DT round up those d@mn Evanjellycats and get them on song.

GWB IS GWD and GWD IS GREAT. THANK GWD FOR GWB.

CO2 IS JUST AN IDEOLOGICAL ANTI-REPUBLICAN LEFTIST GAS WITH AN ADGENDA.-dt

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10312
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,00:05   

The great Davetard swindle:

http://news.independent.co.uk/environ....956.ece

Quote
A Channel 4 documentary claimed that climate change was a conspiratorial lie. But an analysis of the evidence it used shows the film was riddled with distortions and errors
By Steve Connor
Published: 14 March 2007


--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,00:24   

Quote
A Channel 4 documentary claimed that climate change was a conspiratorial lie. But an analysis of the evidence it used shows the film was riddled with distortions and errors

One graph they use to "debunk" reality is labeled as coming from NASA.

Curious people began to look and it turns out the graph didn't come from NASA, but from an industry-funded anti-site.

Even better, the graph from that site only goes up until 1980, but the TV show labeled the X-axis as extending to 2000 (rescaling the years apparently to make it appear the "no warming as recently as 1980" extend to 2000 - oops!).

NASA actually has at least one graph on their climate science [sub?]site bringing that data up-to-date which directly contradicts the graphs given in the documentary.

The show's producer, who happens to be an anti-environmental recent communist (no shit!  the right is riding the back of a friggin' ultra-leftist), said "oh, our graphics designers re-did the X-axis, that was a mistake".

Yeah, that's what graphics designers do, uh-huh.  I work with them all the time.  None I know would do so without asking for approval.

As for the rest of the problems with this "documenfictionary", go read Real Climate.

Again I'm shaking my head wondering that some people here, well-schooled in the bullshit techniques of the ID crowd, would fall for such dreck.

Oh!  Just remembered.  Roy Spencer, whose analysis of satellite data once purported to show that the temperature of the troposphere was cooler than measured from the ground and that temperatures had actually cooled, not warmed, in the 1990s .... is an ID advocate.  Wrote so in Tech Central Station a year or two ago!  Re-gargles all the standard creationist/IDist canards without a single original thought.

(BTW his and Christy's analysis of the satellite data collapsed due to simple algebraic and one sign (!) error.  Even God can't protect evangelical southern baptists like Christy and Spencer from mistaking "+" for "-" ... after correction the satellite measurements in question confirm the GCMs).

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,00:59   

Quote (dhogaza @ Mar. 15 2007,07:24)
Quote
A Channel 4 documentary claimed that climate change was a conspiratorial lie. But an analysis of the evidence it used shows the film was riddled with distortions and errors

One graph they use to "debunk" reality is labeled as coming from NASA.

Curious people began to look and it turns out the graph didn't come from NASA, but from an industry-funded anti-site.

Even better, the graph from that site only goes up until 1980, but the TV show labeled the X-axis as extending to 2000 (rescaling the years apparently to make it appear the "no warming as recently as 1980" extend to 2000 - oops!).

NASA actually has at least one graph on their climate science [sub?]site bringing that data up-to-date which directly contradicts the graphs given in the documentary.

The show's producer, who happens to be an anti-environmental recent communist (no shit!  the right is riding the back of a friggin' ultra-leftist), said "oh, our graphics designers re-did the X-axis, that was a mistake".

Yeah, that's what graphics designers do, uh-huh.  I work with them all the time.  None I know would do so without asking for approval.

As for the rest of the problems with this "documenfictionary", go read Real Climate.

Again I'm shaking my head wondering that some people here, well-schooled in the bullshit techniques of the ID crowd, would fall for such dreck.

Oh!  Just remembered.  Roy Spencer, whose analysis of satellite data once purported to show that the temperature of the troposphere was cooler than measured from the ground and that temperatures had actually cooled, not warmed, in the 1990s .... is an ID advocate.  Wrote so in Tech Central Station a year or two ago!  Re-gargles all the standard creationist/IDist canards without a single original thought.

(BTW his and Christy's analysis of the satellite data collapsed due to simple algebraic and one sign (!) error.  Even God can't protect evangelical southern baptists like Christy and Spencer from mistaking "+" for "-" ... after correction the satellite measurements in question confirm the GCMs).

aw sh!t dhogaza.

Next you'll be saying the scientific method should be renamed to "Darwinism". And Darwinism (a well known leftist konspiracy) has a "reality" bias. Who knows where this will end up, people believing in reality? Only in Heaven.

D@MN YOU EVIL CHANCE WORSHIPPING FANTASY DENIERS-dt

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,06:43   

Quote (dhogaza @ Mar. 14 2007,23:24)
"oh, our graphics designers re-did the X-axis, that was a mistake".

TRoutMac found work!

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,06:56   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 14 2007,22:50)
   
Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 14 2007,20:05)
Lou and y'all, check out this. JAD is claiming that PZ's taking down the Molly thread so that he can't see it. :D

I see that 'Brainstorms' has devolved into a slow-motion stroke session between Borat Martin and Javison. I was wondering what was up with the senile old fuck these days...


You beat me to it, Arden.

 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 14 2007,22:20)

Ha ha Fundies:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/03/14/evangelical.rift/index.html


I liked this quote from the CNN article:

   
Quote (FundyWhackJobs @ In a letter to hellbound apostate bastards who won't kneel before DaveTard's global warming expertise)
But Dobson and the other signatories of the letter to the National Association of Evangelicals board said evidence supporting global warming was not conclusive and that the organization "lacks the expertise to settle the controversy."

"The issue should be addressed scientifically and not theologically," they said, calling on the group's board to either rein in Cizik or encourage him to resign.


So something as plain and straightforward as "the temperature is going up, here's a graph" they don't have the expertise to "settle", but when it comes to biology they know more than 150 years worth of research by thousands of biologists.

Talk about picking and choosing!

Am I missing something?

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
wintermute



Posts: 21
Joined: Feb. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,07:54   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 11 2007,18:15)
Bollocks. This is the greatest beer in the world, period, end of fucking report.



Zurich, Switzerland, 14%, kiss my ass.

14%?

Mine goes one higher....


On the other hand, it tastes of shit.

I mean, seriously. I was very drunk and still couldn't stomach it.

My taste runs more towards this:

Probably the finest Pilsner Plžen ever produced.

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,08:16   

Arden should love that Belzebuth, it's "Haute".

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,09:04   

Quote (k.e @ Mar. 15 2007,07:16)
Arden should love that Belzebuth, it's "Haute".

I see that, but they appear to have misspelled it.

Dang furriners.  :angry:

Quote
On the other hand, it tastes of shit.


Kind of a deal breaker.

Samichlaus tastes like no other beer I've ever had. The only way I can describe it is as a combination of chocolate and champagne, except much better than that sounds. It's partly due to the fact that it takes 11 months to brew. The downside is, it's ridiculously hard to find and they don't even make it every year.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Kristine



Posts: 3046
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,11:19   

Kisses to all. Hey, I got our wine label to load!  
Quote
On the other hand, it tastes of shit.
Actually, that wasn't a good year - the very first batch, and from the wild grapes. *Migraine* My favorite label, though.


John made dandelion wine called “Dandy Liar” with a drawing of George Bush, “Raspberries to Bush” (raspberry wine), "Pre-emptive wine" with an image of a missle landing in a wine glass, etc.

He used to make beer in college; we may start that up soon. (I need to see if hops will grow on my fence.)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,13:00   

I find this comment by shaner74 truly amazing ...
 
Quote
This video was fantastic! Thank you DaveScot. After a recent engine build, I got my 76&#8242; Trans Am fired up today. It should get about 8 mpg if I don’t touch the gas pedal. I’ve owned it for 7 years now and many times people have kindly “informed” me of how I’m ruining the earth with it. I always thought they were morons but it’s nice to see video confirmation of it.

So one video categorized as a "polemic" by its producer (one in a series, apparently) starring mostly previously-discredited industry shills is enough to make this idiot believe that thousands of working scientists the world over are lying about the results of their work.

Stunning.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1373
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,13:13   

Quote
Lou and y'all, check out
this.
Golly, Kristine, I thought you were immune to JAD addiction. I am completely cured now which is why I was only mildly interested in this snippet:

 
Quote
Jason Rennie, the host of Sciphishow where I was recently interviewed, provided me with the following history of his requests for interviews.

William Dembski was too busy. The following failed even to respond - Richard Dawkins, P.Z. Meyers, William Provine, Wesley Elsberry and Jonathan Wells. I have no idea who else he may have invited. Michael Behe, to his credit, responded and has indicated his willingness to return. Isn't it interesting that some of the most prominent figures in the present scene are either unable or unwilling to participate in a thoroughly neutral venue such as the Sciphishow? Imagine, if you can, being too busy for a thirty minute interview. I have difficulty accepting such a posture. Perhaps my interview, when it appears, will serve to stimulate some sort of response from any or all of my several adversaries some of whom are listed above. Then again, perhaps it won't. I am betting on the latter. Time of course will tell. It always has and always will.
link

I doubt I shall even check out the interview :D

  
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,14:42   

Quote
The downside is, it's ridiculously hard to find and they don't even make it every year.


Not to worry, Arden.  I'm righteously haute, but even I don't make it every year!

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,14:49   

Quote (dhogaza @ Mar. 15 2007,12:00)
I find this comment by shaner74 truly amazing ...
   
Quote
This video was fantastic! Thank you DaveScot. After a recent engine build, I got my 76&#8242; Trans Am fired up today. It should get about 8 mpg if I don’t touch the gas pedal. I’ve owned it for 7 years now and many times people have kindly “informed” me of how I’m ruining the earth with it. I always thought they were morons but it’s nice to see video confirmation of it.

So one video categorized as a "polemic" by its producer (one in a series, apparently) starring mostly previously-discredited industry shills is enough to make this idiot believe that thousands of working scientists the world over are lying about the results of their work.

Stunning.

Who'd have thought that kind of attitude would come from an Intelligent Design blog.  :O

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,14:52   

Quote (dhogaza @ Mar. 14 2007,23:24)
...
Again I'm shaking my head wondering that some people here, well-schooled in the bullshit techniques of the ID crowd, would fall for such dreck...

I wouldn't go so far as to say "fell for it". Was just asking for information to counter it. Look, I don't know enough to understand the arguments they are using. I am ignorant. I would be happy to be educated.

Heres a thing, is it true that CO2 emisioins follow past records of global warming by 800 C.years? If that is the case (and I am not claiming it is) then why would this not lead to a possitive feedback cycle that makes warming unrecoverable?

This is a question on my part, not an observation/accusation.

No need to answer BTW, I will go to realclimate tomorrow. I was simply pointing out that my posts where questions and not accusations.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,15:07   

Quote (Steviepinhead @ Mar. 15 2007,13:42)
Quote
The downside is, it's ridiculously hard to find and they don't even make it every year.


Not to worry, Arden.  I'm righteously haute, but even I don't make it every year!

But what percent alcohol are you?

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10312
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,15:35   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 15 2007,14:07)
Quote (Steviepinhead @ Mar. 15 2007,13:42)
Quote
The downside is, it's ridiculously hard to find and they don't even make it every year.


Not to worry, Arden.  I'm righteously haute, but even I don't make it every year!

But what percent alcohol are you?

PHHH. MY URINE HAS A STREET VALUE OF $75 PER FLUID OZ.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,15:57   

Quote
Look, I don't know enough to understand the arguments they are using.

My point is that anyone familiar with the tactics used by intelligent design creationists to mislead those who don't know biologists should recognize their use in a pseudo-scientific documentary such as "Swindle".

When the same handful of "experts" show up over and over again saying "thousands of scientists are wrong, why they don't consider solar inputs, they don't tell you CO2 lags warming, blah blah blah" your bullshit alarm should be sounding off at a deafening level.

That's true of *any* fringe attack on mainstream science of this sort!  You don't really need to understand the science to understand the fact that they're lying, ignorant, incompetent, or all three.

 
Quote
Heres a thing, is it true that CO2 emisioins follow past records of global warming by 800 C.years? If that is the case (and I am not claiming it is) then why would this not lead to a possitive feedback cycle that makes warming unrecoverable?

It's believed that runaway greenhouse warming's extremely unlikely if not impossible given earth's distance from the sun and climate chemistry.  Real Climate has a section on it.

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,16:16   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Mar. 15 2007,14:35)
 
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Mar. 15 2007,14:07)
 
Quote (Steviepinhead @ Mar. 15 2007,13:42)
   
Quote
The downside is, it's ridiculously hard to find and they don't even make it every year.


Not to worry, Arden.  I'm righteously haute, but even I don't make it every year!

But what percent alcohol are you?

PHHH. MY URINE HAS A STREET VALUE OF $75 PER FLUID OZ.

Yeah, but does it cure cancer?

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2599
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,16:45   

PaV                  
Quote
Looking at the [malaria] statistics, I was quite surprised...But, here’s the whopper!!!

Pop. #6 Nigeria: S-allele: I/U= 3.17; AA-homozyg: I/U= 3.23!!!!!

Yes, that’s right, the AA-homozygotes had a “slight” advantage, i.e., 3.23/3.17= 0.02 selective advantage.

You're calculating I/U, that is, the infected to non-infected ratio. So, yes AA has a "slight" advantage — for the malarial parasite. In fact, every single case indicated a higher percentage of infections for those without the sickle-cell allele.



Of course, just because there is a correlation, doesn't indicate whether the correlation is statistically significant. While PaV is still struggling with basic ratios (and rules for rounding), for those interested, the [malaria] study used an example from history to teach how we can use statistical analysis to determine if a correlation based on limited data is significant.

So, we have Haldane's suggestion in 1949. Then we have preliminary data first collected in 1965. Careful analysis indicates a significant correlation. What comes next? Class? ...blank stares... Class!? ...mumble, mumble... Right. Hypothesis and further testing. Perhaps, we should collect more data ...


Protective Effect of Sickle Cell Trait Against Malaria-Associated Mortality And Morbidity: This study allowed us to determine that sickle cell trait provides 60% protection against overall mortality and most of this protection occurs between 2-16 months of life before the on set of clinical immunity in areas with intense transmission of malaria.

... or determine if there is a correlation between the persistence of the S-allele and prevalence of malaria in migrating populations, or even attempt to find the posited mechanism.

PaV    
Quote
But, of course, you can do the calculation, and then tell everyone how sickle-cell anemia confirms Darwinism!


--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,17:17   

arden:
 
Quote
But what percent alcohol are you?




Looks to be right around six percent...

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,18:06   

Dudes, THIS is the best beer ever, no exceptions:






;)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
ofro



Posts: 19
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,18:14   

[quote=GCT,Mar. 14 2007,19:02][/quote]
arden:
   
Quote
But what percent alcohol are you?


If you are interested in a strong beer, you may want to try this one .  20% alcohol and 120 IBUs!

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,18:14   

Quote (dhogaza @ Mar. 15 2007,14:57)
My point is that anyone familiar with the tactics used by intelligent design creationists to mislead those who don't know biologists should recognize their use in a pseudo-scientific documentary such as "Swindle".

Everyone who hasn't read it already should run, not walk, to the nearest bookstore to get a copy of Chris Mooney's "The Republican War on Science".

Buy two copies, and give one to your local library.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
phonon



Posts: 396
Joined: Nov. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 15 2007,19:09   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Mar. 14 2007,20:10)
Phonon, is Beer's law linear?  

Absorbance = epsilon * b (usually 1 cm) * concentration

However, percent transmission of radiation is not.

Beer's Law would not be an issue with the composite plot of CO2 concentration and temperature over time. Beer's law is, obviously, a correlation that is linear, but that's not the correlation we're talking about here.

The plot shows that the correlation of a rise in temperature and a subsequent rise in CO2 is roughly linear. If the rise in CO2 had an additive effect on global temperature, then you'd think you'd see a less linear correlation. The overall effect of CO2 on temperature would obviously involve absorbance/transmittance of infrared, but that's immaterial to this. When temperatures drop, CO2 also drops, but lags by hundreds of years. The CO2 might have an effect there, it's hard to tell from the curve, but again, you'd think the correlation should be less linear if CO2 had an additive effect on temperature.

I was googling to find a copy of that plot and came across an actual correlation plot of the data (it looks like a home Xcel job, but...):
http://home.scarlet.be/~ping5859/correlation.html

There are two curves fitted to the points. One is a line, but the other is slightly exponential, and it's sloping in the right direction for a CO2 warming effect, but it's slight. I wish they had done it on better software than Xcel, maybe even Origin or something.

I'll just shrug my shoulders for now. Maybe someone that actually knows the climate stuff can set me straight.

--------------
With most men, unbelief in one thing springs from blind belief in another. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

To do just the opposite is also a form of imitation. - Georg Christoph Lichtenberg

  
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