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  Topic: FL Debate Peanut Gallery, Keep it Clean!< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:17   

This is the  "FL PEANUT GALLERY" Thread


Here, people can make comments or raise issues  concerning the tentatively-agreed-on "FL Debate"

Anyone wishing to take part in the "FL Debate" thread can check here for relevant points that can be included in any posts.


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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:18   

FL's been around a while. This could be interesting.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:20   

I've seen several of these threads attempting to lure Creationists here for debates. Does it EVER work?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:24   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 09 2009,18:20)
I've seen several of these threads attempting to lure Creationists here for debates. Does it EVER work?

Not to my knowledge. Mind you, you've got to heave a lot of bricks before you hit a duck.

Louis

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Bye.

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,12:41   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Sep. 09 2009,12:20)
I've seen several of these threads attempting to lure Creationists here for debates. Does it EVER work?

It might, this time, but yeah. Read the response I got here: http://pandasthumb.org/archive....-panels

Who knows.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,16:30   

But why would somebody want to hit a duck? That sounds daffy.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 410
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,18:06   

How 'ard could it be? Don' ald answer at once, for the day, see, is long. :p

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All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,20:45   

No, it won't be interesting at all.

FL is what I would label a "fucking moron."

Totally ignorant about science, history, biblical scholarship, math, geometry and, well, any subject.

He'll present the same stuff over and over and over.

Me:  2 + 3 = 5

FL:  No, 2 + 3 = 6.  Go read Dembski's book.  Read Behe's book.  Read every book in the Universe.  It's right there in print!

FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 410
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,21:22   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 09 2009,20:45)
FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously.

Have the tard reserves expanded by an order of magnitude or two recently?

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All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 09 2009,21:43   

Oops!  Sorry, Deadman, but I violated all your rules in a single posting.

However, "debate" with FL is a lost cause.  Been there, suffered through that.  Go out to the Kansas Citizens for Science Education blog for the Best of FL.

2 + 3 is still 6 I assure you!  And always will be, by God!

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,01:12   

Doc: Since FL hasn't bothered to make an appearance (despite some mighty strong words about willingness to debate), I hardly think it matters.   :O I'm *shocked*, though!

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,05:33   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Sep. 10 2009,02:45)
No, it won't be interesting at all.

FL is what I would label a "fucking moron."

Totally ignorant about science, history, biblical scholarship, math, geometry and, well, any subject.

He'll present the same stuff over and over and over.

Me:  2 + 3 = 5

FL:  No, 2 + 3 = 6.  Go read Dembski's book.  Read Behe's book.  Read every book in the Universe.  It's right there in print!

FL makes FtK look like ERV.  Seriously.

Oh I agree with you. I should have perhaps specified what I meant (and commonly mean) by my use of the word "interesting" in contexts such as this.

"Interesting" meaning an opportunity to be faced once again with a creationist exhibiting wilful, obdurate ignorance and stupidity and thus to ponder the nature of mental illness, how frighteningly common it is, all the while developing new and exciting insults.

Personally, I am so jaded by my experiences with specific types of creationist and other species of denialist moron that my enormous cynicism regarding communicating with them is unlikely to be easily overcome. However, I always leave room for hope. One day, one of them might be vaguely useful.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Dan



Posts: 77
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:19   

FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether

Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity

Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument:

1. The Pope is a Christian.

2. The Pope holds that evolution happens.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_fa....en.html

3. Therefore, Evolution is compatible with Christianity.

A simple three-line proof.

FL now has only five options:

A. Contend that statement 1 is false.

B. Contend that statement 2 is false.

C. Contend that the reasoning deriving statement 3 from statements 1 and 2 is wrong.

D. Accept that statement 3 is true.

OR

E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant like "Some of you boys have already experienced either the LOSS of your Christian faith, or at least a SERIOUS EROSION of your Christian faith. And your slide (your back-slide, that is) is partly or indirectly due to the impact of evolution-claims on your own beliefs."

Which will it be, FL?

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:24   

Oooh, ooh! *waves hand wildly* "E?"

Wait, wait, no..."A" AND "E"?

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:35   

Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 10 2009,07:12)
Doc: Since FL hasn't bothered to make an appearance (despite some mighty strong words about willingness to debate), I hardly think it matters.   :O I'm *shocked*, though!

Shocked and quite possible appalled?

Louis

P.S. Flabbergasted?

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Bye.

  
fusilier



Posts: 215
Joined: Feb. 2003

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,06:55   

Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:19)
FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether

Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity

Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument:

1. The Pope is a Christian.

2. The Pope holds that evolution happens.

{snip}

Over on CARM, FL posts as "mellotron,"  where his most recent tactic has been to imply* he is black, and assert he knows "Darwinism => racism" when he sniffs it.

Most often, he says that the Pope really isn't a Christian - although some Catholics he knows might be.

Second, he will play word games to make it appear that Pius XII, John Paul II, and Benedict XVI didn't really say what we know they said.

Third, he will ignore multiple citations and links in order to repeat, after a few months, the same things, in the hope that other posters simply don't notice.





*Please note he's never actually said he is black, he just sets everyone up for the inference.

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fusilier
James 2:24

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,07:07   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 10 2009,06:35)
Quote (deadman_932 @ Sep. 10 2009,07:12)
Doc: Since FL hasn't bothered to make an appearance (despite some mighty strong words about willingness to debate), I hardly think it matters.   :O I'm *shocked*, though!

Shocked and quite possible appalled?

Louis

P.S. Flabbergasted?

Bewildered, befuddled, bewitched, bamboozled and bemused. By golly. Also gabberflasted

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 554
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,07:51   

Quote (fusilier @ Sep. 10 2009,07:55)
 
Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:19)
FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether

Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity

Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument:

1. The Pope is a Christian.

2. The Pope holds that evolution happens.

{snip}

Over on CARM, FL posts as "mellotron,"  where his most recent tactic has been to imply* he is black, and assert he knows "Darwinism => racism" when he sniffs it.

Most often, he says that the Pope really isn't a Christian - although some Catholics he knows might be.

While the Pope is clearly Christian, I would argue that he's no true Scotsman.

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"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 554
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,07:53   

Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,07:19)
FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether

Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity

Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument:

1. The Pope is a Christian.

2. The Pope holds that evolution happens.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_fa....en.html

3. Therefore, Evolution is compatible with Christianity.

A simple three-line proof.

FL now has only five options:

A. Contend that statement 1 is false.

B. Contend that statement 2 is false.

C. Contend that the reasoning deriving statement 3 from statements 1 and 2 is wrong.

D. Accept that statement 3 is true.

OR

E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant like "Some of you boys have already experienced either the LOSS of your Christian faith, or at least a SERIOUS EROSION of your Christian faith. And your slide (your back-slide, that is) is partly or indirectly due to the impact of evolution-claims on your own beliefs."

Which will it be, FL?

Obviously you do not realize that FL, and only FL, shall determine who is a Christian and who is not.  What were you thinking?

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"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,10:24   

Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,12:19)
FL claims, on another thread, that he wants to use this forum to address the topic of whether

Evolution is Incompatible with Christianity

Since FL is posting claims not arguments, let me help him out with a very simple argument:

1. The Pope is a Christian.

2. The Pope holds that evolution happens.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_fa....en.html

3. Therefore, Evolution is compatible with Christianity.

A simple three-line proof.

FL now has only five options:

A. Contend that statement 1 is false.

B. Contend that statement 2 is false.

C. Contend that the reasoning deriving statement 3 from statements 1 and 2 is wrong.

D. Accept that statement 3 is true.

OR

E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant like "Some of you boys have already experienced either the LOSS of your Christian faith, or at least a SERIOUS EROSION of your Christian faith. And your slide (your back-slide, that is) is partly or indirectly due to the impact of evolution-claims on your own beliefs."

Which will it be, FL?

I'd ask for definitions of three of the five words in the proposition "evolution is incompatible with christianity" before I even ventured an answer.

Possible answers include:

1) Yes

2) Some individuals seem to manage the cognitive dissonance just fine.

3) No

All depends on what you mean by "evolution", or "incompatible", or "christianity". I've yet to see many serious attempts at resolving this (or the large question of science being incompatible with religion) which don't equivocate on terms. In fact most of them equivocate so horrendously as to be vomit worthy.

Louis

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Bye.

  
paragwinn



Posts: 410
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,10:53   

Quote (Louis @ Sep. 10 2009,10:24)
vomit worthy.

sig worthy?

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All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
Sigh. Really Bill? - Barry Arrington

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,11:31   

wow y'all be hatin on a brutha that don't even show up

deadman your link to comments went to the first page.  as there were 6, at least, I didn't read them all to find the pertinent one.  i just cant bear to come across some more blitherblather about ken miller and who so and so knows from high school or the  8th floor library mens bathroom.  

what did FL say?

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,14:01   

Ras: on pg. 6 of that thread, "FL" said he'd start posting  here on Sunday Sept. 13. Can't blame you for not reading through it.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Occam's Toothbrush



Posts: 554
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,15:41   

It's going to be AFDave Lite.  At best.

--------------
"Molecular stuff seems to me not to be biology as much as it is a more atomic element of life" --Creo nut Robert Byers
------
"You need your arrogant ass kicked, and I would LOVE to be the guy who does it. Where do you live?" --Anger Management Problem Concern Troll "Kris"

  
JohnK



Posts: 13
Joined: Mar. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,15:57   

Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,06:19)
FL now has only five options:
E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant

FL's SOP.
With sometimes more than a dozen people replying, he can get away with it.
I suggest this thread be renamed the Peanut Gallery, but in addition to snark and asides, everyone post their serious responses here.
Then  create a "FL vs. AtBC debate" thread where one or a few people, deadman/eric/etc, condense the best responses and post once.
I.e. a single AtBC Borg collective response -- evasions pointedly noted. A thread one can link to later.

Quote (fusilier @ September 10)
FL will ignore multiple citations and links in order to repeat, after a few months, the same things, in the hope that other posters simply don't notice.

That's why a focused thread would be best, where his usual stunts are manifest and not lost in piles of clutter.
In fact, I suggest all serious AtBC creationists be treated this way.
   
Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,15:41)
It's going to be AFDave Lite.

A thread that went for 167 pages, which may never be read by anyone in its entirety again.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,16:03   

Quote (JohnK @ Sep. 10 2009,21:57)
Quote (Dan @ Sep. 10 2009,06:19)
FL now has only five options:
E. Change the subject by saying something irrelevant

FL's SOP.
With sometimes more than a dozen people replying, he can get away with it.
I suggest this thread be renamed the Peanut Gallery, but in addition to snark and asides, everyone post their serious responses here.
Then  create a "FL vs. AtBC debate" thread where one or a few people, deadman/eric/etc, condense the best responses and post once.
I.e. a single AtBC Borg collective response -- evasions pointedly noted. A thread one can link to later.

 
Quote (fusilier @ September 10)
FL will ignore multiple citations and links in order to repeat, after a few months, the same things, in the hope that other posters simply don't notice.

That's why a focused thread would be best, where his usual stunts are manifest and not lost in piles of clutter.
In fact, I suggest all serious AtBC creationists be treated this way.
     
Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,15:41)
It's going to be AFDave Lite.

A thread that went for 167 pages, which may never be read by anyone in its entirety again.

Seconded. It'll make a nice change.

We'd need a thread moderator with either power to port posts or access to someone with that power.

And the willingness and time to do so of course.

Louis

ETA: I've yet to meet a serious creationist. They all eventually rely on the standard mendacity or mystery that typifies their mentality.

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Bye.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,16:47   

FL sings Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered.

Take it away FL!



After one whole thread of tard
Like a heat rash I return
With no more education
I've got lots of time to burn

Evolution's just a wet dream
It's enough to make me puke
Even though I'm fucking clueless
There's nothing I can't rebuke

REFRAIN

I'm back again
The same again
A simpering, whimpering tard again
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I

Couldn't learn
Wouldn't learn
But there's not a Darwinist book I wouldn't burn
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered am I

Lost my mind but what of it?
It doesn't make a diff
Go ahead, have a laugh
It just makes me stiff

A shill I am
But still I am
Batshit crazy and in love with Ham
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
Am I

Vexed I am
Perplexed I am
I really want to have sex with Ham
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered
Am I

Wise at last (Kurt)
Eyes at last (Ham)
I'm cutting Darwin down to size at last
Bewitched, bothered and bewildered no more

Am I


(applause!)

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1058
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,17:14   

Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Sep. 10 2009,15:41)
It's going to be AFDave Lite.  At best.

Same great TARD taste.  Only half the brain damage?

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"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,17:23   

Bleh. Okay, I'm going to assume FL = male.

I'm responsible for inviting "FL" without having any real knowledge of  his track record at PT or CARM or wherever. I just saw him posting at PT and disrupting a thread I was interested in. I didn't know it was a "regular" irritant there and my intent was to find a decent chew-toy. I don't think this is it, but it might at least serve the purpose of keeping FL busy for a while. Maybe. I'm having real second thoughts after having read some of his claims and tactics.

My bad.

I agree on the "AFDave xtra-lite" assessment from OT (Occam's). It might still be possible to make this into an occasional diversion -- something vaguely interesting -- whenever people feel like whacking the mole.

I'll reiterate John and  Louis'  comments above: "FL" uses the usual cherry-picking response ploy -- preferring to respond to less-relevant questions/comments and refusing to deal with more  germane ones. I expect a Gish Gallop, and the full bag o' tricks creos usually bring: diversion, snark, irrelevancies and especially fallacy/illogic. Everyone's seen this shit before.  

So, the fewer "opposing posts" the better (preferably  a maximum of 2-3 per day? 1? ) There's a month to deal with this, by FL's "plan," so, that's plenty of time to simply pick through claims. I don't expect any real surprises; i.e. no real meat, but a lot of standard creo-gamesmanship.

Whoever posts TO FL should probably see if there's any interesting "peanut gallery " comments/points first, then put them together into as concise and compact a package as possible.

I don't think we can impose on Kristine or LouFCD to moderate much, so ...ahem...it's up to everyone to try to cooperate in using the Peanut Gallery and only post in the actual FL thread when you're sufficiently irritated or drunk, or have a killing thrust you want to personally apply.

I'm going to use a modified "Febble-Eric" approach with any FL posts I make: bullet points and stick to narrow crippling topics, forcing exploration of those finely-delimited points as much as possible. The syllogistic example of Dan's is a good starting point.

-----------------------------------

I can post at 10 AM PST daily. I'll take that responsibility, since I blame me for this potential (okay, certain) debacle, and so should everyone else. I'll still ask for comments and suggestions until the circus commences. After that, please get your comments/points in the PG (peanut Gallery) thread before 10 AM PST daily. Thanks and

Cheers!

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 10 2009,17:55   

K, I just sent Lou a request to change this thread title to "FL debate Peanut Gallery." He's not feeling well , so I don't expect that  change to happen immediately.

I'll start up a "FL Debate Thread" on Sat., before FL posts on Sunday.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
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