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  Topic: Thoughts on Hell, for Kevin Miller's new Film, Hellbound< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
J-Dog



Posts: 4361
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,16:36   

Louis:

SHHHH! Ixnay on the Hewcay Oytay!

I was trying to get him to respond, so we could poke the stick at him some more...

but I think we all agree that his mother was a hamster and his father smelt of elderberries.  

And I have to say that the UD vs. mathgrrl thread is much more amusing right now anyway.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,16:42   

Quote (Cubist @ Mar. 28 2011,10:57)
Quote (MichaelJ @ Mar. 27 2011,18:31)
Lastly he needs to deal with the fact that according to mainstream Christianity a lot of people who don't deserve it are going to end up in Hell.

I beg to differ: According to mainstream Christianity, everyone deserves to end up in Hell, because everyone is maximally disgusting and sinful and evil JUST BECAUSE. So sayeth the lovely, life-affirming doctrine of Original Sin, don't'cha know.

I think that these guys would say that they deserve hell because they had the chance to join the one true version of Christianity ™.

But how about a kid born on the Pakistan/Afganistan border? Is it his fault that he never became a Christian?

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,17:22   

Ironic, isn't it, that a guy making a film about Hell is actually going to Hell, himself, because of his lifetime of un-repented bad behavior.

Just on "bearing false witness" alone he's totally doomed.  Of course, the immoral douchbag is counting on a deathbed recant, but that's not going to cut it for the King of Kings, is it?

Kev-0 is a bad person, dishonest to the core and he knows it.    Kev-0 knows he deliberately lied in Expelled and he comes here thinking that we'll forgive him for his sins and that's irony upon irony.

Number one, we know you're a douchbag, Kev-0, and Number two we don't care.  There is no Number three.  You are Number 6.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5377
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,18:00   

Quote (Louis @ Mar. 28 2011,05:25)
I find it extremely telling that original sin derived from curiosity and the desire for knowledge.

This.

Exactly this.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,18:04   

Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 28 2011,17:36)
And I have to say that the UD vs. mathgrrl thread is much more amusing right now anyway.

No sir. It's the Mathgrrl vs. UD thread. It's the home team that's getting its collective ass handed to it.

...and you *know* it's killing those misogynist fuckers that it's one lone *grrl* that has them bent over the rail and is giving them internal splinters.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
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Lou FCD



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(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,18:11   

Quote (MichaelJ @ Mar. 28 2011,17:42)
Quote (Cubist @ Mar. 28 2011,10:57)
 
Quote (MichaelJ @ Mar. 27 2011,18:31)
Lastly he needs to deal with the fact that according to mainstream Christianity a lot of people who don't deserve it are going to end up in Hell.

I beg to differ: According to mainstream Christianity, everyone deserves to end up in Hell, because everyone is maximally disgusting and sinful and evil JUST BECAUSE. So sayeth the lovely, life-affirming doctrine of Original Sin, don't'cha know.

I think that these guys would say that they deserve hell because they had the chance to join the one true version of Christianity ™.

But how about a kid born on the Pakistan/Afganistan border? Is it his fault that he never became a Christian?

Quote
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. ~ John 14:6


IOW, fuck that kid.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
khan



Posts: 1479
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2011,18:34   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Mar. 28 2011,19:04)
Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 28 2011,17:36)
And I have to say that the UD vs. mathgrrl thread is much more amusing right now anyway.

No sir. It's the Mathgrrl vs. UD thread. It's the home team that's getting its collective ass handed to it.

...and you *know* it's killing those misogynist fuckers that it's one lone *grrl* that has them bent over the rail and is giving them internal splinters.

Yeah *grrl*

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 12 2011,23:43   

Thought I'd let you folks know we just wrapped principal photography on "Hellbound?" You can read all about it here.

You may also want to check out my other two docs that are currently in release: spOILed and Sex+Money.

  
Cubist



Posts: 349
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,01:58   

Mr. Miller, you are a reprehensible, deceitful, unrepentant disgrace to any God you may think you worship. You may not recognize the noisome stench of lies and hypocracy that still clings to you from your work on that abhorrent piece of mendacious propaganda called Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, but other people are most assuredly not so handicapped.
There's no point in telling you to go to Hell, Mr. Miller, because your own actions have bought you your reservation, and your isotopically-pure lack of repentance has sealed your post-mortem fate. Enjoy your stay in the lake of fire, you Commandment-breaking scum in human form.

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,02:32   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Nov. 13 2011,00:43)
Thought I'd let you folks know we just wrapped principal photography on "Hellbound?" You can read all about it here.

You may also want to check out my other two docs that are currently in release: spOILed and Sex+Money.

I'm certain that they will prove to be just as critically and commercially successful as your previous effort.

*points and laughs*

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I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,02:48   

I find it nice that we have our own (very, very nauseating) version of IMDB, with director's inputs and all.

I mean, Kevin's work is so sterling, I just so can't wait to get my hands on his new stuff. No, seriously, I can't wait, I have other, more important things to do. Like watching the paint flake off of my toilet wall...

Reminds me, I never checked the IMDB Expelled trivia. Quick Robin, to the URL bar!!!

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,02:55   

Well, thank you, genial sidekick, that trivia was a good condensé of Expelled Exposed. At least the ride was nice, thanks for getting the top off the Batmobile. I needed the fresh air...

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3282
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,07:43   

Is this one filled with lies too or is it pure fantasy like your last one?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Wesley R. Elsberry



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Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,09:28   

IMDB has a "Goofs" page for "Expelled" that is currently empty. Come on, there are enough errors in the thing to write an errata that would kill a forest to print.

ETA: From the "Goofs" submission guidelines:

Quote

A goof is an unintentional error in the film making process that in some way breaks the spell and takes us momentarily outside the world created by that movie.


OK, now I see why the Goofs page is empty: propaganda is intentional promulgation of falsehood and error.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on Nov. 13 2011,09:31

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,09:48   

Quote (Cubist @ Nov. 13 2011,02:58)
Mr. Miller, you are a reprehensible, deceitful, unrepentant disgrace to any God you may think you worship. You may not recognize the noisome stench of lies and hypocracy that still clings to you from your work on that abhorrent piece of mendacious propaganda called Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed, but other people are most assuredly not so handicapped.
There's no point in telling you to go to Hell, Mr. Miller, because your own actions have bought you your reservation, and your isotopically-pure lack of repentance has sealed your post-mortem fate. Enjoy your stay in the lake of fire, you Commandment-breaking scum in human form.

Wow. I'm gonna have that framed.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1237
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,10:04   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Nov. 12 2011,23:43)
Thought I'd let you folks know we just wrapped principal photography on "Hellbound?" You can read all about it here.

You may also want to check out my other two docs that are currently in release: spOILed and Sex+Money.

You should rename "Hellbound" to "DVDbound".

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,13:13   

*Possible spoiler alert*

I am sure that Kevin's film concludes that Hell is separation from God, a state of being, not a literal place - which is what I was taught, after all. Not everyone learns "Dante's hell." (Although I think they used it on us kids when my age was in the single digits.)

It's interesting that believers do not also refer to the Apocalypse as a state of being, then. Or creation - is not everything being destroyed and created all the time in a cosmos of change?

I think the concept of change is key - liberal Christians who accept evolution do so because they accept a universe of death and change, which IMHO really is much closer to animism/pantheism than the Lawgiver idea (who is unchanging because death and change are punishments).

One could also argue that any dungeon (hell) utilized even by the most benevolent deity represents that deity's unconscious, peopled with desires, urges, and actions that the deity denies (judges). I have always argued that Edgar Allan Poe came up with the idea of the unconscious before Freud, but one could also credit more ancient writers of this. Hell represents our unconscious and our dark side, which we fear. Unfortunately, cultivating this fear via religion does little to deter one from acting immorally, if one is so inclined, and uselessly and destructively torments those whose default setting is not be so inclined.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3282
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,15:44   

Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 14 2011,13:13)
*Possible spoiler alert*

I am sure that Kevin's film concludes that Hell is separation from God, a state of being, not a literal place - which is what I was taught, after all. Not everyone learns "Dante's hell." (Although I think they used it on us kids when my age was in the single digits.)

It's interesting that believers do not also refer to the Apocalypse as a state of being, then. Or creation - is not everything being destroyed and created all the time in a cosmos of change?

I think the concept of change is key - liberal Christians who accept evolution do so because they accept a universe of death and change, which IMHO really is much closer to animism/pantheism than the Lawgiver idea (who is unchanging because death and change are punishments).

One could also argue that any dungeon (hell) utilized even by the most benevolent deity represents that deity's unconscious, peopled with desires, urges, and actions that the deity denies (judges). I have always argued that Edgar Allan Poe came up with the idea of the unconscious before Freud, but one could also credit more ancient writers of this. Hell represents our unconscious and our dark side, which we fear. Unfortunately, cultivating this fear via religion does little to deter one from acting immorally, if one is so inclined, and uselessly and destructively torments those whose default setting is not be so inclined.

Has anyone else read the latest Ian Banks?  Hell is examined very closely and is rather interesting.

Of course, the Christians really WANT hell to be a place of eternal torture and pain and suffering so that they can A) scare the non-believers into believing and B) thumb their noses and think "He'll suffer forever in hell" of someone that they don't like.

If hell is nothing more than the absence of God... well, sounds like heaven to me.  Of course, heaven (eternally singing the praises of the sociopathic monster that is the Judeo-Christian God) always sounded like hell to me... and it would be for those poor souls stuck next to me in the chorus.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Amadan



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(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,17:07   

Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 14 2011,19:13)
I have always argued that Edgar Allan Poe came up with the idea of the unconscious before Freud, ...

Or how about Hieronymus Bosch?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
fnxtr



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Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,17:12   

Quote (Amadan @ Nov. 14 2011,15:07)
Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 14 2011,19:13)
I have always argued that Edgar Allan Poe came up with the idea of the unconscious before Freud, ...

Or how about Hieronymus Bosch?

Poe came up with Bosch before Freud did? Or Poe came up with Bosch before he came up with Freud? I'm all confused now.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4361
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,17:33   

Hey Kev 11 - A TrueHell™ would be forced to read only UD, and only talk to yokels like You~

HTH

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,19:55   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Nov. 14 2011,15:44)
 
Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 14 2011,13:13)
*Possible spoiler alert*

I am sure that Kevin's film concludes that Hell is separation from God, a state of being, not a literal place - which is what I was taught, after all. Not everyone learns "Dante's hell." (Although I think they used it on us kids when my age was in the single digits.)

It's interesting that believers do not also refer to the Apocalypse as a state of being, then. Or creation - is not everything being destroyed and created all the time in a cosmos of change?

I think the concept of change is key - liberal Christians who accept evolution do so because they accept a universe of death and change, which IMHO really is much closer to animism/pantheism than the Lawgiver idea (who is unchanging because death and change are punishments).

One could also argue that any dungeon (hell) utilized even by the most benevolent deity represents that deity's unconscious, peopled with desires, urges, and actions that the deity denies (judges). I have always argued that Edgar Allan Poe came up with the idea of the unconscious before Freud, but one could also credit more ancient writers of this. Hell represents our unconscious and our dark side, which we fear. Unfortunately, cultivating this fear via religion does little to deter one from acting immorally, if one is so inclined, and uselessly and destructively torments those whose default setting is not be so inclined.

Has anyone else read the latest Ian Banks?  Hell is examined very closely and is rather interesting.

Of course, the Christians really WANT hell to be a place of eternal torture and pain and suffering so that they can A) scare the non-believers into believing and B) thumb their noses and think "He'll suffer forever in hell" of someone that they don't like.

If hell is nothing more than the absence of God... well, sounds like heaven to me.  Of course, heaven (eternally singing the praises of the sociopathic monster that is the Judeo-Christian God) always sounded like hell to me... and it would be for those poor souls stuck next to me in the chorus.

Do you want to know the truth? Sometimes I think that being an atheist means that there is no separation from "God" at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm talking about "God" on a metaphoric level. I don't "believe" in God. Truth to tell, I don't believe in anything - I try very hard not to have beliefs (preconceived ideas) at all.

Most of my life is lived in silence. In silence there is dance, love, pleasure, and love. Christianity talks too much - most religions talk too much. I don't believe in talk - it does not cook rice. I believe (if I believe in anything) in phenomena.

Hell scared me for a long time, even after I became an atheist at age nine. (Who the hell becomes an atheist at age nine? Especially if she was, and continued to be, a shining Bible study student?) It scared me so badly that I lay awake at night thinking about it. I remember thinking about it in the dark while staying over night at my cousins's house (the younger cousin who just died of cancer).

Hell scared me even into college, when I re-read all those Hal Lindsey books that were laying around the house. You should have seen my reaction to the film "Fanny and Alexander" - I was so terrified by the religious imp ;) -lications raised by that film that I literally trembled and cried in my ex's arms.

(He was also an atheist, and a preacher's son.)

Believe you me, I understand religious believers. I understand them more than they know.

But now I know about OCD, and that the "unforgivable sin" (which apparently is not taught to Catholics, according to Rev. Barky), which scares so many Protestants.

Do I still have nightmares of hell? OF COURSE I do! I did last night. But increasingly I have learned to put them in perspective.

"Hell" is my fear that I am not a good person - not in a legalistic sense (in either the secular legal or Christian) sense, but in the deep and human sense. In so fearing, I have come to see people that I do not agree with (esp. with regard to religion) as likewise deep and humane people. I have come to love them in a way that I do not understand.

I do understand. More than non-atheists think that I do. I have been through what has been called St. John of the Cross's pit of experience and survived.

Christianity was necessary - it was the logical outcome of paganism - but now we are at a transition point. People who are atheists, like me, who still struggle with religious fear are far ahead of those who were raised without religion, because there is a certain fear at the basis of existence.

I don't know how to put my finger on it exactly, but "hell" expresses our deepest fear, and thus our deepest humanity. There is something shallow about people who have never suffered deeply.

Christianity tells a deep truth about our fears of our own depravity. Unfortunately, it also tells a great lie about that same thing. Namely, that we are not as bad as we fear we may be.

I do think that Christianity was a necessary phase, but I wish it had been shorter, and less didactic. Christians who support ID talk of a "paradigm shift," but they do not want the BIG paradigm shift that is coming - which has to do with us forgiving ourselves of our sins, because they are human, and because they pale in comparison with the sins that we have committed in the name of "Christian morality."

Hell? I've been there. Everyone has been there. It is not a place, nor "separation from God." It is fear. And I have reached the point (even in my dreams) where I am no longer afraid.

What then?

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Henry J



Posts: 4041
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2011,09:24   

Fear leads to hate.

Hate leads to the dark side.

(But then so does the end of DST.)

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2011,10:42   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Nov. 13 2011,04:43)
Thought I'd let you folks know we just wrapped principal photography on "Hellbound?" You can read all about it here.

You may also want to check out my other two docs that are currently in release: spOILed and Sex+Money.

Didn't pay to see Expelled, won't pay to see these. Shill ineffectively elsewhere, Kevvo.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 17 2011,09:25   

Well, well, well, looky who we have here, Dr. Norman Geisler, who testified for "creation science" in McLean v. Arkansas. Atheism is Dead, eh? Well, I guess we are all in heaven, then, because we know where creation science went. :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2012,16:41   

Thought you guys may want to see some of our latest imagery for Hellbound?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
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(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2012,17:29   

Yay! Christian torture porn!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3282
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2012,17:44   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Jan. 27 2012,16:41)
Thought you guys may want to see some of our latest imagery for Hellbound?

You thought?

Really?

And the best you could come up with is sending a link to a Noe-Christian Dominist film to a bunch of hardened skeptics?

Seriously?

I used to wonder how much dumber our society could get... I am no longer surprised by the results?

Here's a fun question, Kevin, who do you prefer in the GOP primaries?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Reciprocating Bill



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Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2012,17:53   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Jan. 27 2012,17:41)
Thought you guys may want to see some of our latest imagery for Hellbound?

That is some juvenile shit, there.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Cubist



Posts: 349
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2012,18:27   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ Jan. 27 2012,16:41)
Thought you guys may want to see some of our latest imagery for Hellbound?

Speaking solely for myself, Mr. Miller, I have no interest in seeing any movie that you had anything to do with. By your own behavior, you have demonstrated yourself to be a goddamned liar-for-Jesus and a propagandist in whose mind 'truth' must always be subordinated to whatever ideology you happen to be whoring yourself out for at the time. The fact that the God you profess to worship has not smited you for your numerous violations of His Ninth Commandment—exactly none of which violations you have seen fit to even acknowledge, let alone repent for—must be considered evidence that the God you profess to worship either does not exist, or else doesn't give a shit what sort of shenanigans us humans get up to in His name.
You, Mr. Miller, had better hope that the Bible is wrong about the post mortem fate God has reserved for false witnesses. Because if the Bible is right about that, you are going to burn in a lake of fire for all eternity.

  
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