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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Barrett Brown



Posts: 7
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,04:09   

My latest screed against Uncommon Descent, this time in reference to Cornelius Hunter's bizarre post on "Evolution's Legacy of Shame," may be found at this link:

http://trueslant.com/barrett....f-shame

I've tried for several minutes to hyperlink this but have given up.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,04:39   

Grats BB, A great first post for page 500! :)

Use tinyurl.com or similar for long links, the board s/w does not like links over X long...

Like so

http://tinyurl.com/lfx3f5

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2612
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,07:16   

Quote
Blue Lotus:          
Quote
1–> Drag a distractive, subject-changing red herring across the track of inconvenient truth.

2 –> Lead it out to a strawman misrepresentation of the argument being objected to.

3 –> Soak same in subtle or blatant ad hominem mischaracterisations and slanders or innuendos.

4 –> Spectacularly ignite, clouding, confusing, poisoning and polarising the atmosphere.

5 –> Thus, shift from a discussion towards the truth and constrained by fact and logic to the provocation of a fight by resort to routine incivility.

6 –> Abuse institutional power to club down those who dare differ with you in that resulting fight. (The cases of Sternberg and Gonzalez are classics.)

7 –> Turnabout blame for the confrontation, and slander the victim as the one who “hit [back] first.”

It is time to expose and demand correction of such destructive tactics. In defense of civil society.

Traditional tard-mining means removing the ore from the pit to be refined at a highly specialized facility, such as AtBC. Blue Lotus is attempting to cut away a few choice nuggets from the vein while still in the mines. The question is whether he can now get those nuggets to the surface. If he succeeds, this could mean a major innovation in tardology.

Let's watch and see...



Quote
kairosfocus: Onlookers (and Clive):

This is sad.

A glance at the above will amply demonstrate the point of identifying the routine resort to red herring to strawman to ad hominem — including blame the victim — rhetorical tactics in ever so easily observable use by all too many darwinists.

{blah, blah, blah}

Hmm. Kairosfocus has weighed Blue Lotus down with four times the weight of the nuggets. Not an extreme ratio, only two PS's, but still quite a load of malarkey. This may be more difficult than it first seemed.

Quote
Blue Lotus:  
Quote
In defense of civil society.

Yes. "In defense of civil society.".

--------------
Not joey

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2612
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,07:29   

Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2009,07:16)
 
Quote
Blue Lotus:  
Quote
1–> Drag a distractive, subject-changing red herring across the track of inconvenient truth.

2 –> Lead it out to a strawman misrepresentation of the argument being objected to.

3 –> Soak same in subtle or blatant ad hominem mischaracterisations and slanders or innuendos.

4 –> Spectacularly ignite, clouding, confusing, poisoning and polarising the atmosphere.

5 –> Thus, shift from a discussion towards the truth and constrained by fact and logic to the provocation of a fight by resort to routine incivility.

6 –> Abuse institutional power to club down those who dare differ with you in that resulting fight. (The cases of Sternberg and Gonzalez are classics.)

7 –> Turnabout blame for the confrontation, and slander the victim as the one who “hit [back] first.”

It is time to expose and demand correction of such destructive tactics. In defense of civil society.

When polished and laid out like that, tard can be very beautiful.

Oh, the tears? Must be the oily smoke of burning strawmen. That's all. Really. It can leave you all choked up.

Quote
5 –> Thus, shift from a discussion towards the truth and constrained by fact and logic to the provocation of a fight by resort to routine incivility.

Oh my.

{cough, cough}

--------------
Not joey

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3607
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,07:57   

Quote
Not to mention that with a little knowledge of "nuclear chemistry", we figured out how to make gold from lead!


The analogy fails at a more basic level. Natural processes turn energy into gold and lead and carbon and every other element without any "intelligent" intervention.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,08:04   

Quote
1–> Drag a distractive, subject-changing red herring across the track of inconvenient truth.

2 –> Lead it out to a strawman misrepresentation of the argument being objected to.

3 –> Soak same in subtle or blatant ad hominem mischaracterisations and slanders or innuendos.

4 –> Spectacularly ignite, clouding, confusing, poisoning and polarising the atmosphere.




(I know, an oldie. But who doesn't love a bonfire? Somebody hand me a marshmallow...)

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
KCdgw



Posts: 369
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,08:15   

Quote (Barrett Brown @ Sep. 04 2009,04:09)
My latest screed against Uncommon Descent, this time in reference to Cornelius Hunter's bizarre post on "Evolution's Legacy of Shame," may be found at this link:

[URL=http://trueslant.com/barrettbrown/2009/09/04/intelligent-design-advocate-mocking-of-scientist-by-other-scientists-a-century-ago-is-evol

utions-legacy-of-shame/]http://trueslant.com/barrett....f-shame[/URL]

I've tried for several minutes to hyperlink this but have given up.

Ironically, one of the reasons Kammerer garnered so much opposition wasn't just his research, but the fact he was an atheist.

--------------
Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10324
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,08:27   

Quote
3 –> Soak same in subtle or blatant ad hominem mischaracterisations and slanders or innuendos


Slander is spoken and libel is written, Gordo.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,08:38   

Quote
5 –> Thus, shift from a discussion towards the truth and constrained by fact and logic to the provocation of a fight by resort to routine incivility.


what is "logic to the provocation of a fight by resort to routine incivility"?  

in all his excitement he forgot to say what we've shifted to

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,08:44   

cornytard as noted

daisy, poed?

Quote
2
Daisy
09/04/2009
8:11 am
How disturbing… This kind of religious, dogmatic belief should have absolutely no place in the world of science. Science is supposed to be about objectivity and following the data wherever it leads, even if you don’t like the result — though it’s clear that fallible humans have repeatedly failed to live up to that standard.

As the empirical research into Intelligent Design theory continues, its supporters need to hold themselves to a higher standard, remaining constantly vigilant in order to avoid making the same mistakes the worshipers of Evolutionism did.


i call sock on that one.  just cause daisy is a good name for this daisy chain tardgang

Barbtard

Quote
3
Barb
09/04/2009
8:39 am
Science is objective; it’s the scientists who are not. It stalls science when ideology crowds out rational thinking and empirical evience.


stalls science, as in PSCID?  

erm...  what sort of science is stalled?  remote 3rd person evangelism?

some kind of cheap shiny plastic crap with jesus painted on it?

really i am dying to know just what the fuck is stalled.  i'm not so much convinced it's science that's stalled as i am that yer culture war

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3607
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,09:18   

Quote (Barrett Brown @ Sep. 04 2009,04:09)
My latest screed against Uncommon Descent, this time in reference to Cornelius Hunter's bizarre post on "Evolution's Legacy of Shame," may be found at this link:

[URL=http://trueslant.com/barrettbrown/2009/09/04/intelligent-design-advocate-mocking-of-scientist-by-other-scientists-a-century-ago-is-evol


utions-legacy-of-shame/]http://trueslant.com/barrett....f-shame[/URL]

I've tried for several minutes to hyperlink this but have given up.

Hey! That's about me.

Edit: Does Hunter ever address anything relevant, like say, the faking of evidence part?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
k.e..



Posts: 3067
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,10:05   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 04 2009,16:27)
Quote
3 –> Soak same in subtle or blatant ad hominem mischaracterisations and slanders or innuendos


Slander is spoken and libel is written, Gordo.

GORDON'S VOICES DON'T WRITE. HOMO.
HE JUST TRANSCRIBES.d.t.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,12:01   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 04 2009,08:57)
   
Quote
Not to mention that with a little knowledge of "nuclear chemistry", we figured out how to make gold from lead!


The analogy fails at a more basic level. Natural processes turn energy into gold and lead and carbon and every other element without any "intelligent" intervention.

What the hell could you possibly be talking about?



   
Quote
That image is titled Nuclear Explosion, by WTL photos and is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-No Derivative Works 2.0 Generic license.


Next thing you know, you'll be claiming that there's a constant input of energy that counters the SLoT argument...



   
Quote
That image is titled Sunny Side Up, by code poet, and is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-Noncommercial-Share Alike 2.0 Generic license.


Edited to fix the second image's title.

Edited again to add this cool link from the Bad Astronomer, from January of this year:

Supernova remnant expands as we watch

(It's a small, short flash file of shots of supernova Cassiopeia A taken in 2000, 2002, 2004, and 2007 in succession, showing the expansion of the remnant in that time.)

Edited by Lou FCD on Sep. 04 2009,13:09

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
dmso74



Posts: 110
Joined: Aug. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,13:01   

bFast explains just how much loves those yummy computers:

Quote
Secondly, Oatmeal, Gil is a world-class software developer as am I (he moreso). We have a deep, rich, thick understanding of computers, including “universal” turing machines.


do you program in heaping spoonfuls of creamy steaming nougaty code?

link

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3607
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,13:10   

Amazing how low the threshold is for being able to out-think the likes of Einstein and Wolfram.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,13:47   

Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2009,07:16)
Quote
[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blown-away-dan-peterson-reviews-dr-stephen-meyers-book-the-signature-in-the-cell-at-the-am

erican-spectator/#comment-332867]kairosfocus[/URL]: Onlookers (and Clive):
. . .

Looks like Gordon is calling for Mama Clive Baby to make the mean old Blue Lotus stop pointing out Gordon's less than honest tactics.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,14:12   

Quote (Maya @ Sep. 04 2009,13:47)
Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2009,07:16)
 
Quote
[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blown-away-dan-peterson-reviews-dr-stephen-meyers-book-the-signature-in-the-cell-at-the-am



erican-spectator/#comment-332867]kairosfocus[/URL]: Onlookers (and Clive):
. . .

Looks like Gordon is calling for Mama Clive Baby to make the mean old Blue Lotus stop pointing out Gordon's less than honest tactics.

He better be careful what he asks for. Clive moderates one of his own:
Quote

18
Clive Hayden
09/04/2009
1:51 pm

bFast,
Quote

   Oatmeal, you are a bit stupid, aren’t you.

That just landed you in the moderation pool.


--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,14:17   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 04 2009,14:12)
Quote (Maya @ Sep. 04 2009,13:47)
 
Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2009,07:16)
 
Quote
[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blown-away-dan-peterson-reviews-dr-stephen-meyers-book-the-signature-in-the-cell-at-the-am




erican-spectator/#comment-332867]kairosfocus[/URL]: Onlookers (and Clive):
. . .

Looks like Gordon is calling for Mama Clive Baby to make the mean old Blue Lotus stop pointing out Gordon's less than honest tactics.

He better be careful what he asks for. Clive moderates one of his own:
 
Quote

18
Clive Hayden
09/04/2009
1:51 pm

bFast,
 
Quote

   Oatmeal, you are a bit stupid, aren’t you.

That just landed you in the moderation pool.

Clive baby is joining the evil conspiracy of Expellers!

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10324
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,14:32   

Quote (dmso74 @ Sep. 04 2009,13:01)
bFast explains just how much loves those yummy computers:

 
Quote
Secondly, Oatmeal, Gil is a world-class software developer as am I (he moreso). We have a deep, rich, thick understanding of computers, including “universal” turing machines.


do you program in heaping spoonfuls of creamy steaming nougaty code?

link

World class? what's he done that we've heard of, then?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1995
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,14:35   

Quote (Maya @ Sep. 04 2009,14:17)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 04 2009,14:12)
Quote (Maya @ Sep. 04 2009,13:47)
 
Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 04 2009,07:16)
   
Quote
[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/education/blown-away-dan-peterson-reviews-dr-stephen-meyers-book-the-signature-in-the-cell-at-the-am





erican-spectator/#comment-332867]kairosfocus[/URL]: Onlookers (and Clive):
. . .

Looks like Gordon is calling for Mama Clive Baby to make the mean old Blue Lotus stop pointing out Gordon's less than honest tactics.

He better be careful what he asks for. Clive moderates one of his own:
 
Quote

18
Clive Hayden
09/04/2009
1:51 pm

bFast,
 
Quote

   Oatmeal, you are a bit stupid, aren’t you.

That just landed you in the moderation pool.

Clive baby is joining the evil conspiracy of Expellers!

What?  I've been a member all along.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
JohnW



Posts: 2319
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,14:53   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 04 2009,12:32)
Quote (dmso74 @ Sep. 04 2009,13:01)
bFast explains just how much loves those yummy computers:

 
Quote
Secondly, Oatmeal, Gil is a world-class software developer as am I (he moreso). We have a deep, rich, thick understanding of computers, including “universal” turing machines.


do you program in heaping spoonfuls of creamy steaming nougaty code?

link

World class? what's he done that we've heard of, then?

"World class" as defined by people who think CS Lewis is a great philosopher and Dr Dr D is the Isaac Newton of Information Theory.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,14:59   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 04 2009,14:32)
 
Quote (dmso74 @ Sep. 04 2009,13:01)
bFast explains just how much loves those yummy computers:

   
Quote
Secondly, Oatmeal, Gil is a world-class software developer as am I (he moreso). We have a deep, rich, thick understanding of computers, including “universal” turing machines.


do you program in heaping spoonfuls of creamy steaming nougaty code?

link

World class? what's he done that we've heard of, then?

World class?

I'll give you world class!

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,15:26   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Sep. 04 2009,15:32)
 
Quote (dmso74 @ Sep. 04 2009,13:01)
bFast explains just how much loves those yummy computers:

   
Quote
Secondly, Oatmeal, Gil is a world-class software developer as am I (he moreso). We have a deep, rich, thick understanding of computers, including “universal” turing machines.


do you program in heaping spoonfuls of creamy steaming nougaty code?

link

World class? what's he done that we've heard of, then?

He meant "Hello world" class.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
bfish



Posts: 267
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,15:48   

Quote

7
Andrew Sibley
09/04/2009
12:18 pm

yakky d – design is a probabilistic inference to the best explanation, as are evolutionary explanations. The problem for biology is to determine which is the best explanation, sometimes the answer is clear, sometimes it isn’t. For those who like to think that science gives absolute answers such probabilistic solutions are not very satisfactory.


Anyone here think science gives absolute answers? Anybody?

From the Dawkins-new-book thread

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,15:59   

Quote (bfish @ Sep. 04 2009,13:48)
Quote

7
Andrew Sibley
09/04/2009
12:18 pm

yakky d – design is a probabilistic inference to the best explanation, as are evolutionary explanations. The problem for biology is to determine which is the best explanation, sometimes the answer is clear, sometimes it isn’t. For those who like to think that science gives absolute answers such probabilistic solutions are not very satisfactory.


Anyone here think science gives absolute answers? Anybody?

From the Dawkins-new-book thread

Well, I remember losing points on a chemistry exam because I was not giving the "absolute" answers. And in a lab, things can blow-up if you ignore the absolutes. So, there are some correct answers, and some are wrong answers.

As the saying goes, "Creationism isn't even wrong."

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
bfish



Posts: 267
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,15:59   

Quote (Barrett Brown @ Sep. 04 2009,02:09)
My latest screed against Uncommon Descent, this time in reference to Cornelius Hunter's bizarre post on "Evolution's Legacy of Shame," may be found at this link:

[URL=http://trueslant.com/barrettbrown/2009/09/04/intelligent-design-advocate-mocking-of-scientist-by-other-scientists-a-century-ago-is-evol


utions-legacy-of-shame/]http://trueslant.com/barrett....f-shame[/URL]

I've tried for several minutes to hyperlink this but have given up.

You managed to stir up a couple of commenters over there. Some of them are really odious.

This in response to Barrett Brown's post-greeting comment about Alan Turing:

Quote

8
IRQ Conflict
09/04/2009
12:13 pm

BarrettBrown,

Are you saying we should just keep our heads in the sand and not learn from the past?

And I will let you in on a little secret. The homosexual lifestyle is a blight on society. And teaching such things to children, I have no words for those depraved idiots.

But hey! At least we aren’t in their bedrooms. Right? Why are they in ours?

There is NO shame in prosecuting someone who breaks the law. As it’s been said, if you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime!



I edited out a link he included at the end of his comment, because I don't want to propagate whatever it is.

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,16:08   

Quote

But hey! At least we aren’t in their bedrooms. Right? Why are they in ours?


Is he (I'm guessing here) in prison? That's the only way I can make even superficial sense of that statement.

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4523
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 04 2009,16:13   

It's time to start the third thread.

I'll add this one to the quick links bar.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
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