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Dr.GH



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2009,19:22   

Ouch. Intelligent Design Guys Put the Sleeperhold on Darwin's Defenders.

I watched Schermer screw-up against Hovind some years ago. I hope they at least got a lot of money.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
someotherguy



Posts: 367
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2009,20:10   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Dec. 01 2009,19:22)
Ouch. Intelligent Design Guys Put the Sleeperhold on Darwin's Defenders.

I watched Schermer screw-up against Hovind some years ago. I hope they at least got a lot of money.

Gary, check the PT front page.  Prothero, Shermer's co-debator, has a guest post up about the event.

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Evolander in training

  
Jasper



Posts: 76
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2009,20:10   

I wouldn't believe anything that Robert Crowther has written about a debate that included a couple of his DI brethren.

Methinks he doth boast too much.

I'll wait for the video to surface.

  
RDK



Posts: 229
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2009,23:03   

This part really had me in stitches:

Quote
Some of the best points came later in the debate, when Sternberg slammed Prothero with factual put down after factual put down, citing the current literature time and again. His command of the subject matter — from population genetics to junk DNA — was so far and above beyond Shermer and Prothero's knowledge, so far above their pay grade, that it was almost painful to watch him school them point after point.


You really can't write this stuff, people.  It has to just flow freely with the TARDwinds.

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‘‘I was like ‘Oh my God! It’s Jesus on a banana!’’  - Lisa Swinton, Jesus-eating pagan

  
afarensis



Posts: 1001
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2009,23:11   

I don't know, I found this quite hysterical:

 
Quote
His Darwinian motivational rant went on about how the Cambrian explosion was really a "slow fuse," not an explosion. Amazingly, he claimed that almost all the major phyla had ancestors 50 million years before the Cambrian. Alas, he was so far wrong that it wasn't all that much effort to point it out, completely discredit him, and then let him hang himself with his twisted rope of unearned arrogance and condescension. If you're going to be arrogant, you'd better be able to back it up with something better than, "I climbed some rocks in Russia and read an article in The New Scientist." emphasis mine - afarensis


What Prothero really said:

 
Quote
...then a quick run through the Pre-Cambrian fossil record, focusing on why it is not the “Cambrian explosion” but the Cambrian “slow fuse” (and pointing out that I’m a paleontologist, I’ve actually seen and collected these outcrops, and neither of my opponents had).


Edit to add: Prothero must have gotten a rise out of them as Crowther, Luskin, and Wells have all wrote posts specifically singling him out.

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Church burning ebola boy

FTK: I Didn't answer your questions because it beats the hell out of me.

PaV: I suppose for me to be pried away from what I do to focus long and hard on that particular problem would take, quite honestly, hundreds of thousands of dollars to begin to pique my interest.

   
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 01 2009,23:42   

this shit reads like a postmodern "Sword of the Lord"

Quote
The great debate over the adequacy of evolution continues. Sort of. The latest head to head meeting had Dr. Stephen Meyer and Dr. Richard Sternberg debating Dr. Michael Shermer and Dr. Donald Prothero. Heading into the debate I was quite excited; these aren't lightweights, after all. The defenders of evolution are well known in science circles and to followers of the overall debate. Indeed, we've blogged a fair amount on Dr. Prothero who has, shall we say, a colorful and cavalier way with the facts. He is known more for polemical bromides and spurious personal attacks than for any serious science.


Facts here is a link to an older hysterical screed  
Quote
MSNBC’s Birthday Present to Charles Darwin: Puff-Pieces on Evolution (Part 3)


which had this crap

Quote
Buying Prothero's Arguments? Caveat Emptor!*
First, Prothero’s book--which forms the basis of authority for the MSNBC puff-piece--is hard to take seriously because it reads more like a polemic than a serious academic treatment. Consider these statements from Prothero's book:

Quote
“[T]he creationist political pressure, propaganda, and lies are not restricted to public schools. In many smaller colleges … the professors are just as intimidated by creationist bullies who are eager to disrupt class.” (Prothero, p. 354; Note: it's amusing that Prothero provides no documentation to back his anecdotal claim.)


* how lame

that ellipsis made me wonder... of course....

i googled it

found this earlier limp impotent whine from Lacey Cuskin

with this

Quote
Exploding Shermer's Cambrian Argument
While attacking Stephen Meyer's article in Proceedings for the Biological Society of Washington, Shermer briefly discusses the Cambrian Explosion, a major topic in Meyer's paper. Shermer states that the explosion is just an illusion because "according to paleontologist Donald Prothero, in his 2007 magisterial book Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why it Matters (Columbia University Press): "The major groups of invertebrate fossils do not all appear suddenly at the base of the Cambrian but are spaced out over strata spanning 80 million years — hardly an instantaneous 'explosion'! Some groups appear tens of millions of years earlier than others. And preceding the Cambrian explosion was a long slow buildup to the first appearance of typical Cambrian shelled invertebrates." Is that correct? Prothero's book is hard to take seriously because, as we shall see, it reads more like a polemic than a serious academic treatment. Consider these statements from Prothero's book:
Quote
"[T]he creationist political pressure, propaganda, and lies are not restricted to public schools. In many smaller colleges — the professors are just as intimidated by creationist bullies who are eager to disrupt class." (Prothero, pg. 354; Note that Prothero provides zero documentation here of this anecdotal evidence.)


Sounds familiar?  cut and paste the stupid

what about the ellipse.... to ---  I wonder what the fuck is in the middle of that quote.  

there is another phrase in the next paragraph

Prothero’s book sounds like one with an agenda that clearly falls short of a calm, collected, objective scientific analysis.

where "sounds like" is replaced by "is" in crowther's piece

these dumb fucks are phoning the shit in.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,00:04   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Dec. 01 2009,21:42)
these dumb fucks are phoning the shit in.

I honor your Googlefu.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3323
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,06:51   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Dec. 01 2009,23:42)
Sounds familiar?  cut and paste the stupid

Proof that duplication does not create any new information.

QED. ID wins.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 995
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,08:32   

Don't look now but the DI's pulled out the Big Gun:  Jonny "the Brush" Wells.

And what does Jonny do?  He Haeckel's Prothero.

It just "illustrates" how low Jonny will go.  Check it out over at Evo Lies and Snooze.

Does a Dragon Fly?

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2775
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,10:38   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 02 2009,08:32)
Don't look now but the DI's pulled out the Big Gun:  Jonny "the Brush" Wells.

And what does Jonny do?  He Haeckel's Prothero.

Prothero must have really gotten under their skin (or slime, or whatever Wells has on the outside). Good job!

Will they sic Egnor on him next? Can Paul Nelson be far behind?

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1232
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,10:54   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Dec. 02 2009,10:38)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 02 2009,08:32)
Don't look now but the DI's pulled out the Big Gun:  Jonny "the Brush" Wells.

And what does Jonny do?  He Haeckel's Prothero.

Prothero must have really gotten under their skin (or slime, or whatever Wells has on the outside). Good job!

Will they sic Egnor on him next? Can Paul Nelson be far behind?

If I was Prothero I would be quaking in my boots at the prospect of all of the ID scientists being against me.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
RDK



Posts: 229
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,11:00   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Dec. 02 2009,10:38)
 
Quote (Doc Bill @ Dec. 02 2009,08:32)
Don't look now but the DI's pulled out the Big Gun:  Jonny "the Brush" Wells.

And what does Jonny do?  He Haeckel's Prothero.

Prothero must have really gotten under their skin (or slime, or whatever Wells has on the outside). Good job!

Will they sic Egnor on him next? Can Paul Nelson be far behind?

I can only imagine how that would go.  Probably something along the lines of Egnor yelling his head off at Prothero about genetics being one big tautology.

Or he could just go the Joseph route and complain that houses are not composed of the bricks that make them, therefore evolution is wrong, therefore Jebus.

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If you are not:
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‘‘I was like ‘Oh my God! It’s Jesus on a banana!’’  - Lisa Swinton, Jesus-eating pagan

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,13:20   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Dec. 01 2009,19:22)
Ouch. Intelligent Design Guys Put the Sleeperhold on Darwin's Defenders.

I watched Schermer screw-up against Hovind some years ago. I hope they at least got a lot of money.

*frowny face*

Wells wrote that I ran out of Meyers presentation, even though Wells wasnt there at all, even though I stayed for all of Meyers presentation, Q&A, and talked with the Trinity Baptist kids until security kicked us all out, even though I was within 2 feet of Meyer after we were all kicked out (why I now call Meyer 'HighDef'.  he looks kinda John Edwardy handsome from a distance, but up close, AAAAAAAAAAHHHHRUNAWAYAAAAAAAH!).

So why in gods name would you believe a EN&V PR piece after an official *debate*?

*FROWNY FACE*

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1946
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,13:33   

I am told that Schermer has really improved his public speaking and debate skills since the Hovind encounter.

ERV, don't frown- it gives you wrinkles, ;-}

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,14:49   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Dec. 02 2009,19:33)
I am told that Schermer has really improved his public speaking and debate skills since the Hovind encounter.

ERV, don't frown- it gives you wrinkles, ;-}

Wrinkles are an indicator of character. At least that's what I tell myself when store clerks don't recognize me on my 8 year old driver's license.

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Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1232
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 02 2009,14:58   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Dec. 02 2009,14:49)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Dec. 02 2009,19:33)
I am told that Schermer has really improved his public speaking and debate skills since the Hovind encounter.

ERV, don't frown- it gives you wrinkles, ;-}

Wrinkles are an indicator of character. At least that's what I tell myself when store clerks don't recognize me on my 8 year old driver's license.

Please tell me which state lets 8 year olds drive, so I can avoid it.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
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