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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Zachriel



Posts: 2595
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2012,18:51   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 07 2012,09:18)
I have a hard time standing up for someone who isn't willing to stand up for themselves, unless they're unable to for some reason, but I really don't think that EL is unable to. I would think that she should realize that showing any weakness to those arrogant god-wannabes is not going to do any good.

If you react to their rancor, then they will point at you and say "See how unreasonable she is!" Everyone has their own style and each of us brings something a little different to the party. Elizabeth gives others the benefit of the doubt and is willing to overlook transgressions. While you may well recoil in horror, she is shielded with courtesy and reasonableness, and her attackers just look petty.

Nor should trading insults ever be attempted by those without proper training: Sir, your nose is ... hmm ... it is ... very big!

No matter what, you should avoid staying too long near red herrings led away to strawmen soaked in ad hominems and ignited through snidely or crudely incendiary rhetoric to cloud, confuse, poison and polarise the atmosphere...    It's not healthy.

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2595
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2012,18:51   

Quote (eigenstate @ Feb. 07 2012,13:40)
 
Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 07 2012,09:46)

In short: Elizabeth is a fucking ninja.


This.

That.

--------------
Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2012,23:31   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 08 2012,12:18)
     
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 07 2012,11:05)
Weikert:
       
Quote
If Stephens and Giberson had written their book a century earlier, they could have blasted conservative evangelicals for rejecting the eugenics movement and compulsory sterilization for the disabled, which many secular intellectuals considered progressive and scientific. Secular intellectuals do not agree among themselves on many issues, especially moral issues, so why are we required to embrace whatever is the majority view of the secular elite at any given time?


Shorter Weikert:"Accept assertion - me historian! Why listen to thinkers?"

In fact, the Eugenics programs were supported by conservative Evangelicals, and conservative politicians.

See for example  Stefan Küehl's "The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National
Socialism" (2002 Oxford University Press), or Jonathan Peter Spiro's “Defending the Master Race: Conservation, Eugenics, and the Legacy of Madison Grant” (2008 Univ. of Vermont Press).

And in Canada, eugenicists, conservative politicians and evangelicals were one and the same.  No less an authority than Denyse O'Leary had three articles on UD interviewing Jane Harris Zsovan about her book, "Eugenics and the Firewall".

Here's the first part.  Part 2  Part 3

As Jane says, "You bet! Eugenics was widely accepted by the business, academic, medical and political establishment. Preachers – in evangelical and mainline churches – even preached it from the pulpit."

In the book itself, Zsovan details the long sordid history of eugenics in Canada where it was lead by radio evangelist William Aberhart and his protege, Ernest Manning, another evangelist, who became Premier of Canada.

The Christian S.O.B.s sterilized close to 3000 people between 1928 and 1972.

Of course, all this is largely left out of those three articles.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2012,23:37   

Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 08 2012,12:36)
     
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 08 2012,13:31)
anybody "lurking" over there is either one of us or drank the kool aid.  

But, but, but kairosfocus assures me that there are many onlookers!

Okay, you're right.  I'll add another reason to the list:

c) Some of us are exhibiting a character flaw similar to that of school children who make fun of their classmates who ride the short bus.

I don't think so.  Most of the UD regulars volunteered for the short bus because they think that's where all the cool, smart and holy kids sit.  This makes them eminently laughable. 

(Apologies to non-UD short bussers everywhere.)

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 08 2012,23:45   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Feb. 08 2012,15:49)
 
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 08 2012,15:41)
 
Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 08 2012,16:24)
   
Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 08 2012,10:36)
   
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 08 2012,13:31)
anybody "lurking" over there is either one of us or drank the kool aid.  

But, but, but kairosfocus assures me that there are many onlookers!

Okay, you're right.  I'll add another reason to the list:

c) Some of us are exhibiting a character flaw similar to that of school children who make fun of their classmates who ride the short bus.

This.

I see the ATBC/UD relationship as a sign of the forward march of civilisation.  Three hundred years ago, if you wanted to laugh at the mentally ill, you had to go to Bethlehem Hospital (aka Bedlam) and pay the admission charge.  Now we can do it for free.

with lolcats!  Fuck You, Herbert Butterfield!

We fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them here.


Parts of that cat were found in the next county.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,00:18   

A few more quotes from the third part of Denyse's interview with Jane Harris Zsovan, author of "Eugenics and the Firewall":  
Quote
Christians and women social reformers were targeted for indoctrination simply because their ideal society was a lot what the eugenics envisioned: no poverty, no crime, no vice. They tended to favour positive eugenics – education, well baby clinics, and temperance. In fact, the negative eugenics movement had to sugar coat their agenda to appeal these people. If you read Baptist preacher`s, Tommy Douglas`s university paper, `The Problems of the sub-normal Family“ you can see that Douglas is motivated by the idea of relieving poverty, eliminating vice and preventing suffering as he makes the argument for allowing sterilization.
 
Quote
Aberhart, was a Baptist, just like Douglas. Both men would probably have called themselves progressives, but they also were social conservatives when it came to moral issues.
 
Quote
It`s not our progressive heritage that made the eugenics scandal possible. It`s the dark side of populism. The self-righteous pack mentality, that allows the grassroots to demand that the rights of the socially, morally or economically defective be violated by the government. Or that turns its back when it sees these rights violated. That mindset made the Sexual Sterilization Act a political necessity under the UFA and the Social Credit administrations. It allowed it to exist for forty years. It also made racial segregation and forced sterilization of defectives and `criminals`thrive in the United States for decades. And it turned a blind eye when Hitler disbanded the German Parliament and began his holocaust of innocents.


--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 883
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,01:37   

Bruce David is continuing to defend his claim that people regularly break the 2nd law of thermodynamics:
 
Quote
Well, my goodness. I go away for 24 hours and find that I’ve generated quite a discussion. Let me try to get caught up.

It's full of tard, of course, but here's my favorite bit:

(Responding to champignon who has said "I can assure you that no one has found a single macroscopic violation of the second law by any system")
 
Quote
The reason no one has found a single violation in spite of the fact that the earth itself is one massive violation of the Second Law is because they are simply unwilling to see it. “There are none so blind as those who will not see.”

Added emphasis, I believe, is not necessary.

--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2110
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,02:15   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2012,21:31)
Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 08 2012,12:18)
       
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 07 2012,11:05)
Weikert:
         
Quote
If Stephens and Giberson had written their book a century earlier, they could have blasted conservative evangelicals for rejecting the eugenics movement and compulsory sterilization for the disabled, which many secular intellectuals considered progressive and scientific. Secular intellectuals do not agree among themselves on many issues, especially moral issues, so why are we required to embrace whatever is the majority view of the secular elite at any given time?


Shorter Weikert:"Accept assertion - me historian! Why listen to thinkers?"

In fact, the Eugenics programs were supported by conservative Evangelicals, and conservative politicians.

See for example  Stefan Küehl's "The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National
Socialism" (2002 Oxford University Press), or Jonathan Peter Spiro's “Defending the Master Race: Conservation, Eugenics, and the Legacy of Madison Grant” (2008 Univ. of Vermont Press).

And in Canada, eugenicists, conservative politicians and evangelicals were one and the same.  No less an authority than Denyse O'Leary had three articles on UD interviewing Jane Harris Zsovan about her book, "Eugenics and the Firewall".

Here's the first part.  Part 2  Part 3

As Jane says, "You bet! Eugenics was widely accepted by the business, academic, medical and political establishment. Preachers – in evangelical and mainline churches – even preached it from the pulpit."

In the book itself, Zsovan details the long sordid history of eugenics in Canada where it was lead by radio evangelist William Aberhart and his protege, Ernest Manning, another evangelist, who became Premier of Canada.

The Christian S.O.B.s sterilized close to 3000 people between 1928 and 1972.

Of course, all this is largely left out of those three articles.

WTF? Ernest Manning, Premier of Canada?

"Ernest Charles Manning, PC, CC, AOE (September 20, 1908 – February 19, 1996), a Canadian politician, was the eighth Premier of Alberta between 1943 and 1968 for the Social Credit Party of Alberta." -- wiki. (my bold)


Our national head of state is the Prime Minister, just like jolly old.  (insert nit-pick about Governer-General here)

His son, Preston The Loon, helped eliminate the "progressive" from the national Progressive Conservative Party.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
The whole truth



Posts: 979
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,02:17   

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 08 2012,10:52)
Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 08 2012,12:13)
Just a few things to consider for now:

If UD, and what is said there by the IDiots, are unimportant, why does this site exist, why does this thread exist, and why are threads about UD the most popular ones on this site? And, why are there many other sites that focus a lot of attention on UD and what the IDiots say there?

Silly Truth. UD exists because without it logic would have no meaning.
:p

But seriously, I don't think UD's existence is indicative of anything more than some folks want a place to rant about their pet peeve and some of us who have discovered it love to mock their ranting.

ETA: Correction: This is how UD sees "Atheistic Darwinists".

Seymour is how the folks at UD see themselves.

Hi Robin, those comic strips are funny, and fitting.

The reason I brought up importance is partly due to some comments by you and others and partly due to this question from Erasmus:

"who gives a fuck what they think?"

I think it's fair to say that most or all people here (at ATBC) care about what's said at UD (and elsewhere) by the IDiots (and by their opponents). Otherwise they likely wouldn't be here, or at least wouldn't stick around for long. The level of importance from one person to another undoubtedly varies, but I don't think that anyone here can honestly say that what the IDiots do or say (or "think") is completely unimportant.

I realize that we all have our own way of dealing with things, and I'm not trying to 'make' any ID opponents change their methods. I'm just speaking up about something that bugs me and hoping to influence EL to consider some things. I do feel strongly about it but I know that she can, and will, ultimately do whatever she wants.

To prevent any misunderstanding, by "this site" I meant ATBC.

--------------
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Soapy Sam



Posts: 502
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,03:50   

Quote (Henry J @ Feb. 08 2012,16:22)
       
Quote (eigenstate @ Feb. 08 2012,13:40)
       
Quote (noncarborundum @ Feb. 08 2012,10:27)
           
Quote (eigenstate @ ,)

Biology is sun-powered.

Well, except where it's thermal-vent powered.  Not that that changes the situation re:SLoT.

Yes, good point.

On the other hand, a large fraction of geothermal presumably comes from the sun, even if it's indirectly. ( I guess some of it comes from radioactive decay as well.)


Well, it ain't about the warmth so much as the energy. Life is electron-powered. Energetic electrons roll down the thermodynamic gradient and do work, or lock the energy in bonds to do work later. Light gets them up there in the first place, or electrons already high on the thermodynamic gradient (such as in hydrogen sulphide in thermal vents), can be rolled downhill too. The latter mechanism probably came first. The energy in those molecules came from the star prior to the Sun.

Amazing that ID-ers still peddle that 2LoT shit.  Violations of the 2LoT would involve electrons going up the energetic gradient without some kind of energetic input. Life doesn't do that (though I have no EVIDENCE for my position :D).

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,04:43   

fnxtr    
Quote
WTF? Ernest Manning, Premier of Canada?

"Ernest Charles Manning, PC, CC, AOE (September 20, 1908 – February 19, 1996), a Canadian politician, was the eighth Premier of Alberta between 1943 and 1968 for the Social Credit Party of Alberta." -- wiki. (my bold)

Sorry, I don't have her book with me (it's not available on Kindle) and don't remember all the details.  It's well worth reading, though.  I wish Denyse would read it.  She apparently saw "Eugenics" in the title and interviewed the author.  She seemed somewhat surprised at what she "learned", but I'm sure she has since been able to put any inconvenient facts out of her mind.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,05:06   

Quote (Ptaylor @ Feb. 09 2012,01:37)
Bruce David is continuing to defend his claim that people regularly break the 2nd law of thermodynamics:
         
Quote
Well, my goodness. I go away for 24 hours and find that I’ve generated quite a discussion. Let me try to get caught up.

It's full of tard, of course, but here's my favorite bit:

(Responding to champignon who has said "I can assure you that no one has found a single macroscopic violation of the second law by any system")
         
Quote
The reason no one has found a single violation in spite of the fact that the earth itself is one massive violation of the Second Law is because they are simply unwilling to see it. “There are none so blind as those who will not see.”

Added emphasis, I believe, is not necessary.

That whole thread is weird, starting with the OP:      
Quote
Inasmuch as the paranormal and spiritism are “personal”, possessing the characteristics of contingent personality, then it is dangerous to study them as a machine.
...
More precisely, the Bible condemns even the exploration of the occult, because of its parasitic relationship to persons.
...
Inasmuch as the paranormal is personal, it is forbidden for the same reason that the occult is forbidden–it infects our mind.


--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,06:23   

Chas D sets Bruce straight on his weapons-grade 2lotard.

He ends the lesson thus:
 
Quote
Your car runs on the fossil light of an ancient sun, trapped in a disordered molecular soup.

*applause*

--------------
After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,06:29   

And I would like to congratulate myself for inventing the term "2lotard".

Please donate $10 to your favorite charity upon future usage of term.

--------------
After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:03   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 09 2012,02:17)
The reason I brought up importance is partly due to some comments by you and others and partly due to this question from Erasmus:

"who gives a fuck what they think?"

I think it's fair to say that most or all people here (at ATBC) care about what's said at UD (and elsewhere) by the IDiots (and by their opponents). Otherwise they likely wouldn't be here, or at least wouldn't stick around for long. The level of importance from one person to another undoubtedly varies, but I don't think that anyone here can honestly say that what the IDiots do or say (or "think") is completely unimportant.

I realize that we all have our own way of dealing with things, and I'm not trying to 'make' any ID opponents change their methods. I'm just speaking up about something that bugs me and hoping to influence EL to consider some things. I do feel strongly about it but I know that she can, and will, ultimately do whatever she wants.

To prevent any misunderstanding, by "this site" I meant ATBC.

I agree for the most part, though I could quibble with you about your choice of the word "important". I certainly don't find what goes on at UD important in a strict sense of the term:

Quote
Adjective:

   1. Of great significance or value; likely to have a profound effect on success, survival, or well-being: "important habitats for wildlife".
  2.  (of a person) Having high rank or status.


For me, UD is more compelling than important. The discussions and behavior there are indicative of a mindset that I find a little shocking, a little frightening at times, and unbelievable, but also fascinating. I'll engage in discussions there every so often just to see how they defend what I see as an obviously ignorant and erroneous claim.

Still, I agree with you in principle - a lot of us would not come to AtBC if not for UD, so clearly most of us care about UD...at least in the sense that we care enough about what they say and how they behave to gather and comment on it.

I am still curious though - what do you think one of the UD folks "pouncing" on a weak Lizzie would look like? What do you think would happen that would be significant in some way?

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
k.e..



Posts: 2876
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:11   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 08 2012,23:41)
Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 08 2012,16:24)
Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 08 2012,10:36)
 
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 08 2012,13:31)
anybody "lurking" over there is either one of us or drank the kool aid.  

But, but, but kairosfocus assures me that there are many onlookers!

Okay, you're right.  I'll add another reason to the list:

c) Some of us are exhibiting a character flaw similar to that of school children who make fun of their classmates who ride the short bus.

This.

I see the ATBC/UD relationship as a sign of the forward march of civilisation.  Three hundred years ago, if you wanted to laugh at the mentally ill, you had to go to Bethlehem Hospital (aka Bedlam) and pay the admission charge.  Now we can do it for free.

with lolcats!  Fuck You, Herbert Butterfield!

wot about poking Lous?

and punfests?

HOMOS!

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
k.e..



Posts: 2876
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:15   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 09 2012,10:15)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2012,21:31)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 08 2012,12:18)
       
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 07 2012,11:05)
Weikert:
         
Quote
If Stephens and Giberson had written their book a century earlier, they could have blasted conservative evangelicals for rejecting the eugenics movement and compulsory sterilization for the disabled, which many secular intellectuals considered progressive and scientific. Secular intellectuals do not agree among themselves on many issues, especially moral issues, so why are we required to embrace whatever is the majority view of the secular elite at any given time?


Shorter Weikert:"Accept assertion - me historian! Why listen to thinkers?"

In fact, the Eugenics programs were supported by conservative Evangelicals, and conservative politicians.

See for example  Stefan Küehl's "The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National
Socialism" (2002 Oxford University Press), or Jonathan Peter Spiro's “Defending the Master Race: Conservation, Eugenics, and the Legacy of Madison Grant” (2008 Univ. of Vermont Press).

And in Canada, eugenicists, conservative politicians and evangelicals were one and the same.  No less an authority than Denyse O'Leary had three articles on UD interviewing Jane Harris Zsovan about her book, "Eugenics and the Firewall".

Here's the first part.  Part 2  Part 3

As Jane says, "You bet! Eugenics was widely accepted by the business, academic, medical and political establishment. Preachers – in evangelical and mainline churches – even preached it from the pulpit."

In the book itself, Zsovan details the long sordid history of eugenics in Canada where it was lead by radio evangelist William Aberhart and his protege, Ernest Manning, another evangelist, who became Premier of Canada.

The Christian S.O.B.s sterilized close to 3000 people between 1928 and 1972.

Of course, all this is largely left out of those three articles.

WTF? Ernest Manning, Premier of Canada?

"Ernest Charles Manning, PC, CC, AOE (September 20, 1908 – February 19, 1996), a Canadian politician, was the eighth Premier of Alberta between 1943 and 1968 for the Social Credit Party of Alberta." -- wiki. (my bold)


Our national head of state is the Prime Minister, just like jolly old.  (insert nit-pick about Governer-General here)

His son, Preston The Loon, helped eliminate the "progressive" from the national Progressive Conservative Party.

teh GG ?


Oh that's right teh QUEEN OF ENGLAND is ur head of state....hehehehehe

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:17   

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 09 2012,09:03)
For me, UD is more compelling than important. The discussions and behavior there are indicative of a mindset that I find a little shocking, a little frightening at times, and unbelievable, but also fascinating. I'll engage in discussions there every so often just to see how they defend what I see as an obviously ignorant and erroneous claim.

I'll agree with that hands down.  "Compelling" precisely because it is so risibly stupid, not threatening.  UD is a pisspot for scientifically and philosophically literate people with SIWOTI syndrome.  And thank the sun for that because i laugh my balls off at those buffoons regularly.

But nothing that occurs there is "important".  ID is deader than a mastodon bacculum, there is no chance that anything stemming from UD will have any influence on any aspect of science or education or law ever.  

That is not necessarily true for the rest of the creationists, for sure, but UD is not the DI and anyone of that lot with a scintilla of good machiavellian sense has distanced themselves from that shitbin.

These fuckfaces have painted themselves into a cave.  Why not shovel shit over the mouth of that cave while gordon e mullings soliloquizes?  N.O.T.H.I.N.G. that febble can say to that shitstack will ever change his behavior or opinions, so it really doesn't matter what tone she takes over there.  it's like writing graffiti on the reichstag

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:20   

Quote (k.e.. @ Feb. 09 2012,09:11)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 08 2012,23:41)
Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 08 2012,16:24)
 
Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 08 2012,10:36)
 
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 08 2012,13:31)
anybody "lurking" over there is either one of us or drank the kool aid.  

But, but, but kairosfocus assures me that there are many onlookers!

Okay, you're right.  I'll add another reason to the list:

c) Some of us are exhibiting a character flaw similar to that of school children who make fun of their classmates who ride the short bus.

This.

I see the ATBC/UD relationship as a sign of the forward march of civilisation.  Three hundred years ago, if you wanted to laugh at the mentally ill, you had to go to Bethlehem Hospital (aka Bedlam) and pay the admission charge.  Now we can do it for free.

with lolcats!  Fuck You, Herbert Butterfield!

wot about poking Lous?

and punfests?

HOMOS!

now i has a sad, haven't seen louis since his epic flounceout but i am sure he would agree with me!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:40   

ya'll managed to piss louis off enough to flounce out?

how interesting.

have louis and o'leery ever been spotted simultaneously?

anyone have a link to the flounce?

  
Quack



Posts: 1751
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:55   

Quote
Well, it ain't about the warmth so much as the energy. Life is electron-powered. Energetic electrons roll down the thermodynamic gradient and do work, or lock the energy in bonds to do work later. Light gets them up there in the first place, or electrons already high on the thermodynamic gradient (such as in hydrogen sulphide in thermal vents), can be rolled downhill too. The latter mechanism probably came first. The energy in those molecules came from the star prior to the Sun.

Amazing that ID-ers still peddle that 2LoT shit.  Violations of the 2LoT would involve electrons going up the energetic gradient without some kind of energetic input. Life doesn't do that (though I have no EVIDENCE for my position :D

I am no good at math, but the way I see it, wouldn't violating the LoT entail an increase in the amount of energy in the universe, in addititon to being a violation of 'there's no such thing as a free lunch'? It seems to me that since energy and matter are interchangeable, the effect would be an increase ex nihilo to one of the absolute, fixed parameters of the universe.

--------------
YEC creationists denigrate science without an inkling of what their lives would be without it. YEC creationism is an enrageous, abominable insult to the the human intellect.
                                                         Me.

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,08:59   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Feb. 09 2012,03:50)
Well, it ain't about the warmth so much as the energy. Life is electron-powered. Energetic electrons roll down the thermodynamic gradient and do work, or lock the energy in bonds to do work later. Light gets them up there in the first place, or electrons already high on the thermodynamic gradient (such as in hydrogen sulphide in thermal vents), can be rolled downhill too. The latter mechanism probably came first. The energy in those molecules came from the star prior to the Sun.

Amazing that ID-ers still peddle that 2LoT shit.  Violations of the 2LoT would involve electrons going up the energetic gradient without some kind of energetic input. Life doesn't do that (though I have no EVIDENCE for my position :D).

This is precisely what 99.99% of IDers/Creationists/most laymen don't get. Most folks think that entropy is about cluttered desks, not where electrons or other atomic particles sit on some theoretical thermodynamic energy gradient. They just simply don't get this and thus they make erroneous third grade claims about 2LOT having no actual understanding of what they are talking about.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1237
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,09:06   

Quote (fnxtr @ Feb. 09 2012,02:15)
Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2012,21:31)
 
Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 08 2012,12:18)
       
Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ Feb. 07 2012,11:05)
Weikert:
         
Quote
If Stephens and Giberson had written their book a century earlier, they could have blasted conservative evangelicals for rejecting the eugenics movement and compulsory sterilization for the disabled, which many secular intellectuals considered progressive and scientific. Secular intellectuals do not agree among themselves on many issues, especially moral issues, so why are we required to embrace whatever is the majority view of the secular elite at any given time?


Shorter Weikert:"Accept assertion - me historian! Why listen to thinkers?"

In fact, the Eugenics programs were supported by conservative Evangelicals, and conservative politicians.

See for example  Stefan Küehl's "The Nazi Connection: Eugenics, American Racism, and German National
Socialism" (2002 Oxford University Press), or Jonathan Peter Spiro's “Defending the Master Race: Conservation, Eugenics, and the Legacy of Madison Grant” (2008 Univ. of Vermont Press).

And in Canada, eugenicists, conservative politicians and evangelicals were one and the same.  No less an authority than Denyse O'Leary had three articles on UD interviewing Jane Harris Zsovan about her book, "Eugenics and the Firewall".

Here's the first part.  Part 2  Part 3

As Jane says, "You bet! Eugenics was widely accepted by the business, academic, medical and political establishment. Preachers – in evangelical and mainline churches – even preached it from the pulpit."

In the book itself, Zsovan details the long sordid history of eugenics in Canada where it was lead by radio evangelist William Aberhart and his protege, Ernest Manning, another evangelist, who became Premier of Canada.

The Christian S.O.B.s sterilized close to 3000 people between 1928 and 1972.

Of course, all this is largely left out of those three articles.

WTF? Ernest Manning, Premier of Canada?

"Ernest Charles Manning, PC, CC, AOE (September 20, 1908 – February 19, 1996), a Canadian politician, was the eighth Premier of Alberta between 1943 and 1968 for the Social Credit Party of Alberta." -- wiki. (my bold)


Our national head of state is the Prime Minister, just like jolly old.  (insert nit-pick about Governer-General here)

His son, Preston The Loon, helped eliminate the "progressive" from the national Progressive Conservative Party.

Yet great historian Weikert assumes that conservative back then means the same political belief system as now - IDiot!  

Or if he knows better - Liar!

Quelle surprise.

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2595
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,09:17   

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 09 2012,08:59)
 
Quote (Soapy Sam @ Feb. 09 2012,03:50)
Well, it ain't about the warmth so much as the energy. Life is electron-powered. Energetic electrons roll down the thermodynamic gradient and do work, or lock the energy in bonds to do work later. Light gets them up there in the first place, or electrons already high on the thermodynamic gradient (such as in hydrogen sulphide in thermal vents), can be rolled downhill too. The latter mechanism probably came first. The energy in those molecules came from the star prior to the Sun.

Amazing that ID-ers still peddle that 2LoT shit.  Violations of the 2LoT would involve electrons going up the energetic gradient without some kind of energetic input. Life doesn't do that (though I have no EVIDENCE for my position :D).

This is precisely what 99.99% of IDers/Creationists/most laymen don't get. Most folks think that entropy is about cluttered desks, not where electrons or other atomic particles sit on some theoretical thermodynamic energy gradient. They just simply don't get this and thus they make erroneous third grade claims about 2LOT having no actual understanding of what they are talking about.

People often confuse the analogy (e.g. shuffled and sorted cards) with the thing itself (entropy). If you want to harness the thermodynamic order in playing cards, set them on fire.



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Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2110
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,09:41   

Quote (rhmc @ Feb. 09 2012,06:40)
ya'll managed to piss louis off enough to flounce out?

how interesting.

have louis and o'leery ever been spotted simultaneously?

anyone have a link to the flounce?

I was kinda wondering about that myself.

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,09:58   

it was on the BW during the feminazi war, maybe not so much a flounce but a "screw you guys i am going home".  i think after someone compared him to KF for typing too much or something.  a pity, i would read it even if i disagreed simply because that fella really knew how to swear

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,10:24   

Robert Sheldon admits to being uncommonly dense:
Quote
The derivative of a function has different properties than the function, which was a mistake that I made in the first paper I wrote after getting my PhD. (I had assumed that if f(0)–>0, then df/dx(0)–>0. It took the referee a year to straighten me out. The only time I can say that peer review worked.)


This guy used to be an associate professor of physics at the University of Alabama Huntsville.  If that quote is typical, I think we know why he isn't any more.

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1954
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,10:36   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Feb. 08 2012,22:18)
A few more quotes from the third part of Denyse's interview with Jane Harris Zsovan, author of "Eugenics and the Firewall":    
Quote
Christians and women social reformers were targeted for indoctrination simply because their ideal society was a lot what the eugenics envisioned: no poverty, no crime, no vice. They tended to favour positive eugenics – education, well baby clinics, and temperance. In fact, the negative eugenics movement had to sugar coat their agenda to appeal these people. If you read Baptist preacher`s, Tommy Douglas`s university paper, `The Problems of the sub-normal Family“ you can see that Douglas is motivated by the idea of relieving poverty, eliminating vice and preventing suffering as he makes the argument for allowing sterilization.

Darwin's clearest statement on eugenics I know of was his 1873 letter to Francis Galton, January 4th.

Quote
"I am not, however, so hopeful as you. Your proposed Society would have awfully laborious work, and I doubt whether you could ever get efficient workers. As it is, there is much concealment of insanity and wickedness in families; and there would be more if there was a register. But the greatest difficulty, I think, would be in deciding who deserved to be on the register. How few are above mediocrity in health, strength, morals and intellect; and how difficult to judge on these latter heads. As far as I see, within the same large superior family, only a few of the children would deserve to be on the register; and these would naturally stick to their own families, so that the superior children of distinct families would have no good chance of associating much and forming a caste. Though I see so much difficulty, the object seems a grand one; and you have pointed out the sole feasible, yet I fear utopian, plan of procedure in improving the human race. I should be inclined to trust more (and this is part of your plan) to disseminating and insisting on the importance of the all-important principle of inheritance. I will make one or two minor criticisms. Is it not possible that the inhabitants of malarious countries owe their degraded and miserable appearance to the bad atmosphere, though this does not kill them, rather than to "economy of structure"? I do not see that an orthognathous face would cost more than a prognathous face; or a good morale than a bad one. That is a fine simile (page 119) about the "chip of a statue form from a rude block"; but surely Nature does not more carefully regard races than individuals, as (I believe I have misunderstood what you mean) evidenced by the multitude of races and species which have become extinct. Would it not be truer to say that Nature cares only for the superior individuals and then makes her new and better races? But we ought both to shudder in using so freely the word "Nature" after what De Candolle has said. Again let me thank you for the interest received in reading your essay.  

...

I doubt whether you have made clear how the families on the Register are to be kept pure or superior, and how they are to be in course of time still further improved."


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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Raevmo



Posts: 235
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,10:42   

Quote (keiths @ Feb. 09 2012,10:24)
Robert Sheldon admits to being uncommonly dense:
   
Quote
The derivative of a function has different properties than the function, which was a mistake that I made in the first paper I wrote after getting my PhD. (I had assumed that if f(0)–>0, then df/dx(0)–>0. It took the referee a year to straighten me out. The only time I can say that peer review worked.)


This guy used to be an associate professor of physics at the University of Alabama Huntsville.  If that quote is typical, I think we know why he isn't any more.

Amazing. A smooth curve can only cross the origin horizontally? And it took him a year to see that is not necessarily true? He has a PhD in physics?

Wait a minute... That is a miracle! Praise Jesus!

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After much reflection I finally realized that the best way to describe the cause of the universe is: the great I AM.

--GilDodgen

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 09 2012,10:47   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 09 2012,10:58)
it was on the BW during the feminazi war, maybe not so much a flounce but a "screw you guys i am going home".  i think after someone compared him to KF for typing too much or something.  a pity, i would read it even if i disagreed simply because that fella really knew how to swear

Things that might get Lous to post again:

5 - invidious comparison of rugby and (American) football
4 - lolcat involving a Welsh goat in estrus
3 - lolcat involving Lous' Mum and Tarden Chatterbox
2 - revival of Mornington Crescent thread
1 - bonafide FtK posting

I realize that 4 and 3 overlap significantly.

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I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
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