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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,15:09   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 09 2009,15:04)
OMG.  On the bus ads thread:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/atheism....-301659
Quote
62

mohammed.husain

01/09/2009

3:47 pm

How do you think Atheism and Darwinism have contributed to the blatant disregard for human life on the part of the Israelis in their massacre of Palestinians in Gaza?

Should we be speaking here of judaeo-fascism or American fascism for our blatant support of terror? A death toll, of over 800, more than 3,000 injured, and more than 300 women and children. And silence. Not a word.

Are Palestinians exempt from human dignity? Have they not evolved far enough as us Western people?

Isn’t it time to be objective. I’m sure Jesus would condemn this terror

That won't last long. But what has atheism to do with a Jewish state?

It doesn't, but Darwinism does.  After all, Stephen Jay Gould was Jewish. QED.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1653
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,15:59   

They're both non Christian. QED.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.   Edward Feser

‘Anything is a “real possibility” in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious.’ – William J Murray

  
RupertG



Posts: 80
Joined: Nov. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,16:42   

I've checked the Bible and the Quran. There are no atheists in either, and no smiting.

R

(One of those statements is incorrect)

--------------
Uncle Joe and Aunty Mabel
Fainted at the breakfast table
Children, let this be a warning
Never do it in the morning -- Ralph Vaughan Williams

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:07   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Jan. 09 2009,21:09)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 09 2009,15:04)
OMG.  On the bus ads thread:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/atheism....-301659  
Quote
62

mohammed.husain

01/09/2009

3:47 pm

How do you think Atheism and Darwinism have contributed to the blatant disregard for human life on the part of the Israelis in their massacre of Palestinians in Gaza?

Should we be speaking here of judaeo-fascism or American fascism for our blatant support of terror? A death toll, of over 800, more than 3,000 injured, and more than 300 women and children. And silence. Not a word.

Are Palestinians exempt from human dignity? Have they not evolved far enough as us Western people?

Isn’t it time to be objective. I’m sure Jesus would condemn this terror

That won't last long. But what has atheism to do with a Jewish state?

It doesn't, but Darwinism does.  After all, Stephen Jay Gould was Jewish. QED.

{raises hand}

Now hold on there. Jews are Darwinists (they killed Jebus after all) and Nazis are also Darwinists because they killed Jews?

These Darwinists and their infernal and convoluted schemes.

The amazing tard, it just keeps flowing.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:26   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 09 2009,17:07)
 
Quote (carlsonjok @ Jan. 09 2009,21:09)
 
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 09 2009,15:04)

But what has atheism to do with a Jewish state?

It doesn't, but Darwinism does.  After all, Stephen Jay Gould was Jewish. QED.

{raises hand}

Now hold on there. Jews are Darwinists (they killed Jebus after all) and Nazis are also Darwinists because they killed Jews?

These Darwinists and their infernal and convoluted schemes.



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
stevestory



Posts: 8831
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:44   

that kitteh actually looks like Cy Tolliver from Deadwood.

   
stevestory



Posts: 8831
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:49   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 09 2009,18:07)
These Darwinists and their infernal and convoluted schemes.

The amazing tard, it just keeps flowing.

Louis

"a-a-maaaaaa-ziiiiiiiiing tard, how sweeeeeeeeeeet, tha sound......"

One kinda wonders if our little tribe here is just going to keep growing, and thousands of years from now the After the Bar Closers will be baptising each other in the river of tard.

If that's how it's going to go down, I need at least 7 wives. There's no point in starting a cult if you aren't getting money or *****.

 :p

   
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:56   

Ahem. In this thread, a series of asterisks was used as a synonym for "Ben Stein's body". Just a friendly heads up.

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
khan



Posts: 1479
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:57   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 09 2009,18:49)
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 09 2009,18:07)
These Darwinists and their infernal and convoluted schemes.

The amazing tard, it just keeps flowing.

Louis

"a-a-maaaaaa-ziiiiiiiiing tard, how sweeeeeeeeeeet, tha sound......"

One kinda wonders if our little tribe here is just going to keep growing, and thousands of years from now the After the Bar Closers will be baptising each other in the river of tard.

If that's how it's going to go down, I need at least 7 wives. There's no point in starting a cult if you aren't getting money or *****.

 :p

I have decided I need a husband AND a wife.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,17:57   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 09 2009,17:49)
One kinda wonders if our little tribe here is just going to keep growing, and thousands of years from now the After the Bar Closers will be baptising each other in the river of tard.

If that's how it's going to go down, I need at least 7 wives. There's no point in starting a cult if you aren't getting money or *****.

Never been married, have you?  One is plenty.



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
stevestory



Posts: 8831
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,18:04   

Quote (khan @ Jan. 09 2009,18:57)
I have decided I need a husband AND a wife.

[bad joke pre-deleted]

   
Richard Simons



Posts: 425
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 09 2009,18:07   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 09 2009,15:04)
OMG.  On the bus ads thread:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/atheism....-301659  
Quote
62

mohammed.husain

01/09/2009

3:47 pm

How do you think Atheism and Darwinism have contributed to the blatant disregard for human life on the part of the Israelis in their massacre of Palestinians in Gaza?
<SNIP>

That won't last long. But what has atheism to do with a Jewish state?

My reading of it was that he was getting a dig at those at UD who consider everything evil flows from atheism or Darwin (or both), but if so, everyone missed it.

--------------
All sweeping statements are wrong.

  
Bebbo



Posts: 161
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,07:41   

Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 09 2009,09:14)
My atheist bus comment that Clive will never let see the light of day at UD -

Even if you accept that "eastern ethics" come from God, they are not being taught in the name of God. The point stands that the Golden Rule can form the basis for human relations, independent of its source.

Why is there social and altruistic behavior in nature, outside of human society? At the very least, those same principles can operate within human society. A human is not a virus.

Reading StephenB leads to an open mouthed "what the f**k" moment:

"Real goodness is inseparable from the kind of courage, humility, and wisdom that thinks beyond this life. If our short stay here is all there is, then there is no such thing as goodness, only survival. If we don’t live forever, then all goodness is wasted, all hope is misguided, and every promise is a cruel joke."

So feeding the starving, rescuing someone from peril, providing comfort and healing to the ill isn't real goodness unless the person thinks there's an eternal life??!!!!!

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2594
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,08:34   

Quote
ab: SETI makes assumptions and so does ID.

A few differences between SETI and ID.

SETI is looking, but doesn't claim to have found ETI yet.
ID has never looked, but claims to have already found ID.

SETI modifies its assumptions based on current science.
ID assumes its conclusions.

If SETI found a narrowband signal emanating from a planet orbiting another star, scientists would still be very skeptical that it was due to ETI and would seek additional means of confirmation.
ID unskeptically says it has already found ID, and explicitly repudiates the need for independent confirmation.




SETI is kinda silly, but hey, you'd hate to think you didn't look and ETI turned out to be right there flapping its tentacles.
ID is nothing but The Argument Regarding Design™.

DaveScot provides ID's best argument.

Quote
DaveScot: Are you done making yourself look stupid or will there be more forthcoming?


--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
khan



Posts: 1479
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,09:20   

Quote (Bebbo @ Jan. 10 2009,08:41)
Quote (dvunkannon @ Jan. 09 2009,09:14)
My atheist bus comment that Clive will never let see the light of day at UD -

Even if you accept that "eastern ethics" come from God, they are not being taught in the name of God. The point stands that the Golden Rule can form the basis for human relations, independent of its source.

Why is there social and altruistic behavior in nature, outside of human society? At the very least, those same principles can operate within human society. A human is not a virus.

Reading StephenB leads to an open mouthed "what the f**k" moment:

"Real goodness is inseparable from the kind of courage, humility, and wisdom that thinks beyond this life. If our short stay here is all there is, then there is no such thing as goodness, only survival. If we don’t live forever, then all goodness is wasted, all hope is misguided, and every promise is a cruel joke."

So feeding the starving, rescuing someone from peril, providing comfort and healing to the ill isn't real goodness unless the person thinks there's an eternal life??!!!!!

Truly warped.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2594
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,11:04   

Quote
tribune7: I just posted a list of quotes by great scientists ridiculing atheism... We have to recognize that we have won the science debate and start preparing for political battles.

Platonist: I share your Postmilennialism.


--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,11:16   

Steve Fuller    
Quote
Newton was preoccupied with theology throughout his career but minimized its presence in his scientific writings, largely for the same reasons ID advocates do today (i.e. fear of religious persecution). However, people managed to read between the lines and acted accordingly.



--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,13:38   

WTF?  Newton didn't need to include theology in his science writings because funnily enough, he didn't need tehology to do science...

WTF?  Newton 'inspired' the industrial evolution?  Ehhh?  Whats he smoking, I'd like some of that.  I am pretty sure that the idea that humans could and should learn about and describe nature has been around since the high medieval period; moreover the majority of the industrial evolution (Many economic historians don't call it the industrial revolution, since it actually took place over several generations) was carried forwards by artisans and scientists and businessmen without any reference to either theodicy or Newton and the idea that humans could become more like God.

Does anyone else get the impression this blog entry was written without any reference to the needs of clear communication, and it assumes a vast amount of pre-existing knowledge on the part of the reader of both history and theology?  Not to mention it makes a huge number of statements as if they are definitely correct, ignoring the nuances of the situation.

Edited to add- oldmanintheskydidntdoit has basically said all that needs to be said about the post.

  
sparc



Posts: 1676
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,14:51   

Steve Fuller  
Quote
Newton was preoccupied with theology throughout his career but minimized its presence in his scientific writings, largely for the same reasons ID advocates do today

Newton must have been foreseeing Darwin otherwise it wouldn't have made much sense to minimize the presence of theology in ones writings in the 17th century.
Anyway, if Newton managed his to publish his research by minimizing the presence of theology in his writings the same should be possible for ID proponents today.
Or did they do it already?
Jerry:
Quote
The research would not be identified as ID research or else it would not be published but the research is ID research even if the researchers say they are anti ID. They are just doing ID research without knowing it or saying it. It would be interesting to see what they would say if they are told they are supporting ID since this type of research is basic to evolutionary biology.
Maybe they are amongst us already.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1653
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,15:24   

Steve Fuller          
Quote
Newton was preoccupied with theology throughout his career but minimized its presence in his scientific writings, largely for the same reasons ID advocates do today

Fuller is more or less right about Newton - sort of.  According to Wikipedia, Newton did "...more work on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today."  (I think that may be a misprint.  They probably meant, "Newton wasted more time on Biblical hermeneutics than the natural science he is remembered for today.")

Unfortunately for the UD crowd, Newton was not a "nice" Christian.  He specifically denied the Trinity and felt that the Bible had been corrupted.  Either belief would have gotten him kicked out of his professorship, had they been known, so he kept them quiet.  Come to think of it, his beliefs would have gotten him kicked out of Uncommon Descent, too.  

He left a trunk full of religious speculations behind when he died.  John Maynard Keynes, the economist, purchased it and later said, "Newton was not the first of the age of reason: he was the last of the magicians."

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.   Edward Feser

‘Anything is a “real possibility” in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious.’ – William J Murray

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,17:03   

Yup, and Newton also spent far too much time doing Alchemy, playing with antimony and lots of other fun substances.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,17:08   

Epic fail by Stephen Morris:

Quote
What strikes me as interesting in Prof. Fuller’s imagined exchange between theodicist and sceptic is that it is the sceptic, ultimately, who falls back on a theological rather than a scientifc argument. I’ve noticed this tendency in plenty of ‘real’ exchanges of this sort: the sceptical argument boils down to “the universe is not the way I would have designed it if I had been the designer; ergo, there is no designer”.


Presumably we read different words?

PS:
There is an event on at the national library of SCotland in February:
http://www.nls.uk/events/index.html

Quote
Panel debate: Should schools teach creationism?
Writers Christopher Brookmyre and Julian Baggini debate whether our schools should teach creationism alongside evolution. In recognition of Darwin Day – a global celebration of science and reason. Organised in association with the Institute of Ideas and Humanism Scotland.

Wednesday 11 February

Given the large number of Creationists at Edinburgh uni, I feel I should go along and see what happens.  Oddly enough, I can find no evidence that either of the two people on the panel support ID in any way.  So I assume the thing is a setup to bash ID'ers.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,17:51   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 09 2009,23:49)
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 09 2009,18:07)
These Darwinists and their infernal and convoluted schemes.

The amazing tard, it just keeps flowing.

Louis

"a-a-maaaaaa-ziiiiiiiiing tard, how sweeeeeeeeeeet, tha sound......"

One kinda wonders if our little tribe here is just going to keep growing, and thousands of years from now the After the Bar Closers will be baptising each other in the river of tard.

If that's how it's going to go down, I need at least 7 wives. There's no point in starting a cult if you aren't getting money or *****.

 :p

You want money and five stars? Dude you have weird taste. I was hoping for pussy.*

Louis

*Bad joke not predeleted. Hello Bathroom Wall! Are you well? Take my mother in law....please! My dog's got no nose...(how does he smell)....terrible! Etc ad nauseum. Yadda da da da da daaaaaaaaaaah

Try the veal!

Anyway, if we're starting a cult, it's gotta have space aliens. No point in a cult without space aliens.

--------------
Bye.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,19:15   

Quote (guthrie @ Jan. 10 2009,17:08)
Epic fail by Stephen Morris:

Quote
What strikes me as interesting in Prof. Fuller’s imagined exchange between theodicist and sceptic is that it is the sceptic, ultimately, who falls back on a theological rather than a scientifc argument. I’ve noticed this tendency in plenty of ‘real’ exchanges of this sort: the sceptical argument boils down to “the universe is not the way I would have designed it if I had been the designer; ergo, there is no designer”.


Presumably we read different words?

PS:
There is an event on at the national library of SCotland in February:
http://www.nls.uk/events/index.html

Quote
Panel debate: Should schools teach creationism?
Writers Christopher Brookmyre and Julian Baggini debate whether our schools should teach creationism alongside evolution. In recognition of Darwin Day – a global celebration of science and reason. Organised in association with the Institute of Ideas and Humanism Scotland.

Wednesday 11 February

Given the large number of Creationists at Edinburgh uni, I feel I should go along and see what happens.  Oddly enough, I can find no evidence that either of the two people on the panel support ID in any way.  So I assume the thing is a setup to bash ID'ers.

Thanks for the link - I think you are right.  I didn't see any known kooks or cranks listed, so we just want to make sure that Luskin, Dembskis and Wells don't show up.

Maybe   you or Louis an "anonymous source" could drop a dime to the Home Secretary that there is a plot by skinny, crazed Americans underway to steal Scotland's Secret Deep-Fried Candy Bar Receipe...

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
stevestory



Posts: 8831
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,19:23   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 10 2009,18:51)
Anyway, if we're starting a cult, it's gotta have space aliens. No point in a cult without space aliens.

Well, we have the occasional space cadet. Daniel Smith, FtK, AFDave,...

   
keiths



Posts: 2040
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,19:59   

...and CJYman:
Quote
Furthermore, just because something breaks doesn’t mean it wasn’t designed … take a fuse for example.

Yes, and arthritis is a safety device that keeps old folks out of trouble by immobilizing them.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don’t belong there and thoughts into my mind that don’t belong there. -- KF

  
khan



Posts: 1479
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,20:06   

Quote (keiths @ Jan. 10 2009,20:59)
...and CJYman:
Quote
Furthermore, just because something breaks doesn’t mean it wasn’t designed … take a fuse for example.

Yes, and arthritis is a safety device that keeps old folks out of trouble by immobilizing them.

The frakkin arthritis et al is one of the many reasons I reject ID and god-thingy.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 879
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,20:48   

Er - I hate to break this to everybody, but tribune7 has a message for us:
   
Quote
I just posted a list of quotes by great scientists ridiculing atheism.

We have won this debate — their is a designer — on he grounds of reason, rationalism and logic.

Where we hit barriers is when we accept their unsupported premises (methodological naturalism is the arbiter of truth) and their double-standards i.e. “You have to prove this to the nth degree but we don’t have to even try to prove this” or “this is acceptable to teach while this is unconstitutional”.

We have to recognize that we have won the science debate and start preparing for political battles.
(My emphasis)
So that's it then - we (and the mainstream scientific community) have lost in the argument regarding design. Well, I'd best be moving along then. So long, everyone - it's been good knowing you.

--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2594
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,21:39   

Quote
GilDodgen: Seversky et. al.,

I’ve lost interest in posting when I’m one of the few on this forum who uses his real name. Google Gil Dodgen or GilDodgen. I accept the vitriol but will not be an anonymous Internet coward.

Give your real name or admit you’re a coward. Put up or shut up.

I scanned Seversky's comments, but didn't see any vitriol. The thread is about atheism, so Seversky's comments seem on-topic. What is GilDodgen concerned about?

--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5375
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 10 2009,22:52   

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 10 2009,22:39)
Quote
GilDodgen: Seversky et. al.,

I’ve lost interest in posting when I’m one of the few on this forum who uses his real name. Google Gil Dodgen or GilDodgen. I accept the vitriol but will not be an anonymous Internet coward.

Give your real name or admit you’re a coward. Put up or shut up.

I scanned Seversky's comments, but didn't see any vitriol. The thread is about atheism, so Seversky's comments seem on-topic. What is GilDodgen concerned about?

I agree with Gil. BA77, Ftk, SloppyGoose Finch, Tribune, Gordon Mullings kairosfucus, Uptight Bitard, angryoldfathead, and the rest of you Christofascist bozos... You heard the man. Post your real names or admit you're spineless cowards.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
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