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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 17 2012,23:13   

man i aint gonna lie i went over there to talkrat and huffed some of the real shit a few good times.  thanks  for the old sk00l

there really should be a top dave tard thread. is there one?

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Amadan



Posts: 1240
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,01:47   

Is Dave aware of the unique distinction he has been accorded?

Isn't it unfair to keep him in the dark about it? Surely someone here is a TR regular.

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
The whole truth



Posts: 973
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,02:21   

Quote (raguel @ Sep. 17 2012,19:33)
For you afdave fans, he recently said wild animals don't get sick:

http://www.talkrational.org/showthr....1915314

 
Quote
The way to deal with the antibiotic resistance problem is to live our lives as closely as possible to the way the Creator intended. Deer, turkey, raccoons, opossums and such live far closer to the way the Creator intended than humans in "civilized" society do. These wild creatures do not have problems with bacterial infections and all the other problems that "civilized" humans have, thus there is no problem with antibiotic resistance because no antibiotics are ever needed at all.

I'm not familiar with afdave but anyone who spews that level of tard surely deserves a special place in the tard hall of shame.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1237
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,08:47   

Quote (raguel @ Sep. 17 2012,21:33)
For you afdave fans, he recently said wild animals don't get sick:

http://www.talkrational.org/showthr....1915314

 
Quote
The way to deal with the antibiotic resistance problem is to live our lives as closely as possible to the way the Creator intended. Deer, turkey, raccoons, opossums and such live far closer to the way the Creator intended than humans in "civilized" society do. These wild creatures do not have problems with bacterial infections and all the other problems that "civilized" humans have, thus there is no problem with antibiotic resistance because no antibiotics are ever needed at all.

Probably because animals don't get legitimately infected.  Source: Todd Akin ®

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, youíre taking refuge in what we see in the world." †PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2594
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,13:13   

Quote
KF: {REMOVED FOR CIVILITY VIOLATION PER WARNING AT 93, AND WILLFUL CONTINUATION IN THE TEETH OF A KNOWN REQUIREMENT. ONLOOKER KNOWS THE WRONG HE DID AND THE APOLOGY REQUIRED TO COMMENT IN ANY THREAD I AM OWNER OF. I WILL NOT PERMIT DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOUR, ON ANY EXCUSE. KF}

Heh.

Quote
Mung: Well, onlooker, it looks like you need to find a different thread.


--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2594
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,13:19   

Warning in 93:

Quote
kairosfocus: ONLOOKER: Kindly observe the warning in 83 above. I will not repeat the warning. KF

So to 83 then.

Quote
onlooker: Please excuse me joining this thread late. I just returned from a long weekend and found this very interesting topic...

Are you referring to the CSI described by Dembski in Specification: The Pattern That Signifies Intelligence? ...

Can you either describe here an example of calculating CSI for an object, or provide a link to an existing example? The reason I ask is that there is a thread at The Skeptical Zone where it is claimed that CSI, by Dembskiís definition, can be created by evolution. If your method for calculation differs from his, it would be interesting to apply a similar test.

Onlooker asked for clarification, and an example. How dare he!!

Quote
onlooker: {ONLOOKER: For cause of willfully and insistently disruptive behaviour you have been warned not to post in UD threads where I am owner. It is more important to have civil behaviour in threads than to have any given commenter in them. So, kindly either apologise for previous disruptions and indicate an intent to make amends, or else leave this thread. I am sure you and your confederates have ample places to make your views known. I will not repeat the warning. KF}

Is kairosfocus mad because onlooker was late to the thread. You should never be late to a sit-down thread.

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There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3268
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,13:26   

Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 18 2012,13:19)
Is kairosfocus mad because onlooker was late to the thread. You should never be late to a sit-down thread.

So asking questions and asking for evidence is forbidden and will result in removal of all posts.

I think we all knew that already, but thanks for the assistance KF.  I'm sensing a new diary entry...

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
REC



Posts: 555
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,13:29   

Onlooker asks to continue his polite discussion:

Quote
95 onlooker September 18, 2012 at 9:33 am
kairosfocus,

I am having a discussion with gpuccio, not with you. I am quite willing to not respond to your comments, but surely you donít want to shut down open and mutually consensual communication between other participants.

[ALLOWED TO STAND TO DOCUMENT WILLFUL CIVILITY VIOLATION. ONLOOKER KNOWS WHAT HE DID, AND WHY I HAVE INSTRUCTED THAT HE EITHER APOLOGISES FOR DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOUR, OR ELSE CEASES FROM PARTICIPATING IN ANY THREAD I AM OWNER OF. KF]


Quote
109 onlooker September 18, 2012 at 10:48 am
[REMOVED FOR CIVILITY VIOLATION PER WARNING AT 93, AND WILLFUL CONTINUATION IN THE TEETH OF A KNOWN REQUIREMENT. ONLOOKER KNOWS THE WRONG HE DID AND THE APOLOGY REQUIRED TO COMMENT IN ANY THREAD I AM OWNER OF. I WILL NOT PERMIT DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOUR, ON ANY EXCUSE. KF]


What does KF think onlooker did?

Edited by REC on Sep. 18 2012,13:31

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,13:35   

Apparently onlooker is banned from all threads that KF starts. Not that KF ever exercises mod powers or anything.

--------------
Ēletís not make a joke of ourselves.Ē

Pat Robertson

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 495
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,14:20   

Gpuccio comes clean

 
Quote
Finally, the designer has heavy restraints. He cannot do anything.

(whistle ... workin' in a quote mine, goin' down, down, down ...)

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,14:39   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Sep. 18 2012,14:20)
Gpuccio comes clean

Quote
Finally, the designer has heavy restraints. He cannot do anything.

(whistle ... workin' in a quote mine, goin' down, down, down ...)

GP's Designer is just semi-omnipotent. Able to maintain a library of all the possible protein coding sequences and all the possible regulatory sequences, indexed according to function. A database with approximately 10^3000 entries. Not to mention the index that cross references ecological interactions.

Able to intervene inconspicuously in evolution, visiting earth every million years or so to insert a new protein. (Very patient.)

But for all that, constrained by the need to make it look like stochastic variation, selection, and common descent.

Whoever got that job must have really pissed off the management.

--------------
Ēletís not make a joke of ourselves.Ē

Pat Robertson

  
onlooker



Posts: 17
Joined: Sep. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,16:07   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 18 2012,13:35)
Apparently onlooker is banned from all threads that KF starts. Not that KF ever exercises mod powers or anything.

Indeed. †kairosfocus is demonstrating his respect for open discussion by banning me from his threads at UD. †Apparently pointing out his hypocrisy and intellectual cowardice is grounds for him to demonstrate, well, hypocrisy and intellectual cowardice.

In any case, if gpuccio is reading here or if anyone can still post in this thread, hereís what I wrote:

Quote
gpuccio,

Quote
Quote
Are your concepts of functional complexity and dFSCI intended to be used to identify design where it is not known to have taken place or merely to tag design where it is known to have happened?

Obviously the first option.

In that case, I think you have a fundamental problem because you are defining dFSCI such that only "non-deterministic" mechanisms can create it. Just so Iím clear, do you consider evolution (random mutations of various types, differential reproductive success, neutral drift, etc.) to be deterministic? If so, dFSCI doesnít distinguish between "designed" and "non-designed" but between "known to be designed", "known not to be designed", and "unknown".

And just to be further painfully clear, would you agree that deterministic mechanisms can create functional complexity of more than 500 bits, by your definition? †


Also, if anyone can get my similar post out of the noob filter at TSZ, it might increase the odds of a UDer seeing it.

Thanks,

onlooker

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,16:09   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 18 2012,15:39)
[quote=Soapy Sam,Sep. 18 2012,14:20]Gpuccio comes clean
<ip-snay/ >
But for all that, constrained by the need to make it look like stochastic variation, selection, and common descent.

Whoever got that job must have really pissed off the management.

There must be a screen capture from 'Time Bandits' that can illustrate that idea!

...and how did they piss off management? Making comments like "17 kinds of parrot... Nipples... for men!"

--------------
Iím referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
Iím not an evolutionist, Iím a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
onlooker



Posts: 17
Joined: Sep. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,16:13   

Quote (REC @ Sep. 18 2012,13:29)
Onlooker asks to continue his polite discussion:

 
Quote
95 onlooker September 18, 2012 at 9:33 am
kairosfocus,

I am having a discussion with gpuccio, not with you. I am quite willing to not respond to your comments, but surely you donít want to shut down open and mutually consensual communication between other participants.

[ALLOWED TO STAND TO DOCUMENT WILLFUL CIVILITY VIOLATION. ONLOOKER KNOWS WHAT HE DID, AND WHY I HAVE INSTRUCTED THAT HE EITHER APOLOGISES FOR DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOUR, OR ELSE CEASES FROM PARTICIPATING IN ANY THREAD I AM OWNER OF. KF]


 
Quote
109 onlooker September 18, 2012 at 10:48 am
[REMOVED FOR CIVILITY VIOLATION PER WARNING AT 93, AND WILLFUL CONTINUATION IN THE TEETH OF A KNOWN REQUIREMENT. ONLOOKER KNOWS THE WRONG HE DID AND THE APOLOGY REQUIRED TO COMMENT IN ANY THREAD I AM OWNER OF. I WILL NOT PERMIT DISRUPTIVE BEHAVIOUR, ON ANY EXCUSE. KF]


What does KF think onlooker did?

"The wrong" I did?

I pointed out that kairosfocus was being hypocritical by continuing to participate at UD while Joe was there but refusing to participate at The Skeptical Zone because people who post there were rude (by his standards) on completely different sites (no doubt this infamous den of iniquity).

You want an apology, kairosfocus?  I'm really very sorry that you're such a thin-skinned hypocrite.  I'm even more sorry that you have the ability at UD to interfere with a conversation in which you were not a participant.  I am overwhelmingly sorry that I bothered to offer even a modicum of respect to such a pretentious, dishonest blowhard by responding to you politely.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 18 2012,16:13   

welcome onlooker, i had assumed you were already here, but i gotta say that making that unctuous twat, Gordon Mullings, address "onlooker" when he really imagines that he is addressing "onlookers" is a pretty hilarious and subtle poke in the monacled eye of the child pornography collector king of manjack heights, montserrat

Edited by Erasmus, FCD on Sep. 19 2012,12:39

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Tracy



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,11:27   

[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/design-inference/it-seems-that-tsz-objector-to-design-af-insists-on-the-long-since-corrected-canard-that-de

sign-is-a-default-inference/#comment-433744]Joe adds to his legend:[/URL]

 
Quote
I can hit a 95 MPH fastball.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,11:49   

Quote (Tracy @ Sep. 19 2012,11:27)
[URL=http://www.uncommondescent.com/design-inference/it-seems-that-tsz-objector-to-design-af-insists-on-the-long-since-corrected-canard-that-de


sign-is-a-default-inference/#comment-433744]Joe adds to his legend:[/URL]

Quote
I can hit a 95 MPH fastball.

With his big fat arse, maybe.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1006
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,11:59   

More likely:
Quote
I can hit have been hit in the head by a 95 MPH fastball.


--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2594
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,12:53   

Quote
CLAVDIVS: I actually canít think of anything Iím reasonably certain is an artifact where we donít have some clues as to how and when it was made. Do you have any examples in mind?
Quote
Mung: The Smithsonian has numerous such.

We have your answer right here.

Just trying to be helpful.

--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,14:23   

Quote
Probably, if and when we will undesrtand how the operating procedures are coded in the genome, the linguistic componente will be much more apparent, like in any complex coded software.


Gpuccio, explaining how design will be a piece of cake once we crack the small problem of emergence. Obviously there is a hidden grammar and syntax in coding sequences,. We just need to be able to read and write the language.

Of course if that is true, it makes the 500 bit barrier somewhat moot. The argument from isolated islands depends on the combination lock analogy.

--------------
Ēletís not make a joke of ourselves.Ē

Pat Robertson

  
keiths



Posts: 2040
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,16:21   

Lewontin!

Edited by keiths on Sep. 19 2012,14:23

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. †-- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that donít belong there and thoughts into my mind that donít belong there. -- KF

  
sparc



Posts: 1676
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,22:48   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 19 2012,14:23)
Quote
Probably, if and when we will undesrtand how the operating procedures are coded in the genome, the linguistic componente will be much more apparent, like in any complex coded software.


Gpuccio, explaining how design will be a piece of cake once we crack the small problem of emergence. Obviously there is a hidden grammar and syntax in coding sequences,. We just need to be able to read and write the language.

Of course if that is true, it makes the 500 bit barrier somewhat moot. The argument from isolated islands depends on the combination lock analogy.

EN&V also declares the gene dead:
Quote
[...]it is quite clear that the unit "gene" is no more. That is to say, the "gene" is to morphogenesis what "phlogiston" is to chemistry and physics....an obsolete concept. And with the former void of content, the framework of evolutionary/population genetics is, well, gone. That's right: Gone. What do we inherit, then? A phenotype (= RNA sequences; transcripts).
(emphasis mine)
Poor Dr. Dembski. All his effort and the ridicule for nothing.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4465
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,23:25   

Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 19 2012,12:53)
Quote
CLAVDIVS: I actually canít think of anything Iím reasonably certain is an artifact where we donít have some clues as to how and when it was made. Do you have any examples in mind?
Quote
Mung: The Smithsonian has numerous such.

We have your answer right here.

Just trying to be helpful.

They must be using the universe as an annex to hold them all by now.

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on Sep. 19 2012,23:25

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
fnxtr



Posts: 2092
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 19 2012,23:48   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 19 2012,21:25)
Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 19 2012,12:53)
Quote
CLAVDIVS: I actually canít think of anything Iím reasonably certain is an artifact where we donít have some clues as to how and when it was made. Do you have any examples in mind?
† †
Quote
Mung: The Smithsonian has numerous such.

We have your answer right here.

Just trying to be helpful.

They must be using the universe as an annex to hold them all by now.

That. Was. Delicious.
Thanks, Wes.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2012,00:02   

Not only is the gene dead, but apparently children can scribble all over the code without dimishing its function. That's some robust code.

--------------
Ēletís not make a joke of ourselves.Ē

Pat Robertson

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1653
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2012,00:12   

Quote (keiths @ Sep. 19 2012,16:21)
Lewontin!
And a fine one it is, too! †Gordon is in good form today. †You can almost feel the spittle landing on your face. †Here's a sample: † †
Quote
This is of course an attempt to drag a red herring across the track of the mounting up pile of evidence pointing to the evident fine-tuning of the observed cosmos that sets it to an operating point that facilitates C-chemistry, aqueous medium, cell based life. The red herring is then led out to a convenient ďGod of the GapsĒ strawman, duly set alight to the delight of the ideological atheists and their fellow travellers. (Cf. also here on building a sound worldview.)
Ahhhh... †That's the Good Stuff!

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities. † Edward Feser

ĎAnything is a ďreal possibilityĒ in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious.í Ė William J Murray

  
Soapy Sam



Posts: 495
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2012,02:53   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 19 2012,22:48)
† † †
Quote (midwifetoad @ Sep. 19 2012,14:23)
† † † †
Quote
Probably, if and when we will undesrtand how the operating procedures are coded in the genome, the linguistic componente will be much more apparent, like in any complex coded software.


Gpuccio, explaining how design will be a piece of cake once we crack the small problem of emergence. Obviously there is a hidden grammar and syntax in coding sequences,. We just need to be able to read and write the language.

Of course if that is true, it makes the 500 bit barrier somewhat moot. The argument from isolated islands depends on the combination lock analogy.

EN&V also declares the gene dead: † † † †
Quote
[...]it is quite clear that the unit "gene" is no more. That is to say, the "gene" is to morphogenesis what "phlogiston" is to chemistry and physics....an obsolete concept. And with the former void of content, the framework of evolutionary/population genetics is, well, gone. That's right: Gone. What do we inherit, then? A phenotype (= RNA sequences; transcripts).
(emphasis mine)
Poor Dr. Dembski. All his effort and the ridicule for nothing.

What a fucking moron. Where does he think a transcript comes from? One set of studies and he sees fit to redefine a science's concepts for them.

He evidently doesn't know the difference between morphogenetic and evolutionary concepts.

The pop-geneticist's 'gene' is a length of DNA. I think we still inherit chunks of that, despite the ENV discovery that there is also something called a 'phenotype'.

The biochemist's gene is slightly different - a length of DNA that codes for a discrete product: protein or RNA. I think such units are still alive and kicking also.

The phenotypically visible gene is different again - the distinguishable result of particular stretches of DNA, including their RNA transcripts, regulatory sequences and their binding status, activity control, and all that emergent shit.

[eta: Just read more carefully, and he derives his licence from the authors of the ENCODE papers. But they are writing for a literate audience, who hopefully know the difference between evolutionary and genome-organisational concepts.]

Edited by Soapy Sam on Sep. 20 2012,03:04

--------------
Evolutionists trust entropy for creation of life but are like men who horse a crocodile to get across a river - niwrad.

The organism could already metabolize citrus. Joe G

  
k.e..



Posts: 2841
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2012,05:26   

Quote (fnxtr @ Sep. 20 2012,07:48)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 19 2012,21:25)
† †
Quote (Zachriel @ Sep. 19 2012,12:53)
† † †
Quote
CLAVDIVS: I actually canít think of anything Iím reasonably certain is an artifact where we donít have some clues as to how and when it was made. Do you have any examples in mind?
† † † †
Quote
Mung: The Smithsonian has numerous such.

We have your answer right here.

Just trying to be helpful.

They must be using the universe as an annex to hold them all by now.

That. Was. Delicious.
Thanks, Wes.

That must be the

Smithsonian Carnard Wing



--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
sparc



Posts: 1676
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2012,05:56   

Quote (Soapy Sam @ Sep. 20 2012,02:53)

[eta: Just read more carefully, and he derives his licence from the authors of the ENCODE papers. But they are writing for a literate audience, who hopefully know the difference between evolutionary and genome-organisational concepts.]

I must second Larry Moran†who doubts that the leading heads of ENCODE do exactly that.

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
BillB



Posts: 354
Joined: Aug. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 20 2012,07:14   

Thought I would embrace ID and start trying to produce a testable model. Here is my first bit of code:
Code Sample
repeat
{
† if(gap) gap = god;
}
until faith == 0;

  
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