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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,13:59   

Quote (xinit @ June 24 2011,19:32)
Has there been any discussion with what might be done / could be done with the rights and materials should they be acquired? Might be interesting if all the extra non-movie pieces could be made available freely for CC derivative works...

An XXX Parody.

Has to be. Has. To. Be.

I have a scene in mind for the Dembski sweater....you really, really do not want to know, suffice to say it will become an internet meme.

Louis

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Bye.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,14:11   

Quote (Louis @ June 24 2011,13:59)
I have a scene in mind for the Dembski sweater....you really, really do not want to know, suffice to say it will become an internet meme.



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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
sparc



Posts: 1698
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,14:43   

I hope you get EXPELLED! but I will happily appreciate if you use my few Euros for another purpose.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,16:12   

Quote (Louis @ June 24 2011,13:59)
Quote (xinit @ June 24 2011,19:32)
Has there been any discussion with what might be done / could be done with the rights and materials should they be acquired? Might be interesting if all the extra non-movie pieces could be made available freely for CC derivative works...

An XXX Parody.

Has to be. Has. To. Be.

I have a scene in mind for the Dembski sweater....you really, really do not want to know, suffice to say it will become an internet meme.

Louis

Well, frankly, the first thing I would do would be to catalog them and preserve them, like any good archivist/museum specialist. Then, documents and images could be digitized.

I fear that items could be shredded/destroyed, even as we speak...

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,18:04   

Your suspicion/paranoia about what you will find is laughable, Kristine. Prepare to be massively disappointed with the lack of scandal. I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property. Nothing at all to hide.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,18:29   

Well, if the TOAF is successful and those transcripts become our property, we'll post them whether they are "disappointing" or not.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,18:54   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 24 2011,18:04)
Your suspicion/paranoia about what you will find is laughable, Kristine. Prepare to be massively disappointed with the lack of scandal. I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property. Nothing at all to hide.

Careful examination of evidence has never been a creationist forté.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,18:55   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 25 2011,09:04)
Your suspicion/paranoia about what you will find is laughable, Kristine. Prepare to be massively disappointed with the lack of scandal. I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property. Nothing at all to hide.

Even if nothing extra is found there are enough lies in the movie that an annotated version would be embarrassing enough. How about we include a door stop interview with Kevin and ask him how as a committed Christian he knowingly lied about Steinberg.

However, a number of people who were interviewed have blogged about it and we know there is a lot of stuff that ended up on the cutting room floor.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1245
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,19:09   

I think a few musical cut-scenes would be a good way to get across some snarky commentary about the original content.

[Rubs hands eagerly, reaches for rhyming dictionary]

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,19:20   

Kevin, you never did answer me.

Where is Steinberg working now?  I know, do you?

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
xinit



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,19:21   

Quote (Kristine @ June 24 2011,16:12)
Well, frankly, the first thing I would do would be to catalog them and preserve them, like any good archivist/museum specialist. Then, documents and images could be digitized.

I fear that items could be shredded/destroyed, even as we speak...

The nice bit about this is that it's being sold by the bankruptcy trustees, so this should all be out of the hands of the kooks

  
xinit



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,19:24   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 24 2011,18:04)
Your suspicion/paranoia about what you will find is laughable, Kristine. Prepare to be massively disappointed with the lack of scandal. I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property. Nothing at all to hide.

While I'm sure there are no amazing secret documents, having the full video for the "interviews" to correct the lies inherent in the film itself would be handy.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,19:32   

Hey, Kevin, do you have any further information about how the "Expelled" property is even more worthless to a potential buyer than it looks at first glance? I'm all for scaring away more of the bidding pool before Tuesday.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,19:53   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 24 2011,18:04)
Your suspicion/paranoia about what you will find is laughable, Kristine. Prepare to be massively disappointed with the lack of scandal. I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property. Nothing at all to hide.

Really, Kevin? Including the all the rehearsals of that "Pepperdine University student body" comprising of paid film extras?

Footage of Ben Stein practicing his speech? And being made up, while Expelled showed only Dawkins having make-up applied?

Memos regarding the disappearance of the song "Bad to the Bone"?

If there is nothing to hide, why your strident tone?

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:09   

Quote (Amadan @ June 25 2011,10:09)
I think a few musical cut-scenes would be a good way to get across some snarky commentary about the original content.

[Rubs hands eagerly, reaches for rhyming dictionary]

How about a take off of Python's Brave Sir Robin but calling it Honest Sir Kevin? You could show scenes of the movie and then say what really happened.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:11   

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 24 2011,19:20)
Kevin, you never did answer me.

Where is Steinberg working now?  I know, do you?

Even better, what was Meyer's paper about again?

Quote
“The paper ignited a firestorm of controversy merely because it suggested intelligent design might be able to explain how life began.” (Ben Stein, Expelled)


I don't think so! :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:11   

Quote (xinit @ June 24 2011,13:32)
Has there been any discussion with what might be done / could be done with the rights and materials should they be acquired? Might be interesting if all the extra non-movie pieces could be made available freely for CC derivative works...

Bill Dembski may have some spare farty noises he'd be willing to sell.

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:13   

Wouldn't you love to be a lawyer and have to come up with the following:


That certain feature-length motion picture ("Picture") entitled "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" and all collateral, allied, ancillary, subsidiary and merchandising rights therein and thereto, and all properties and things of value pertaining thereto (as used in this paragraph, the term "Picture" shall mean and include the Picture, all of the aforesaid rights and the rights set forth in subparagraphs (i) through (iii) below), including, without limitation: (i) All rights of every kind and nature (including, without limitation, copyrights) in and to any literary, musical, dramatic or other literary material of any kind or nature upon which, in whole or in part, the Picture is or may be based, or from which it is or may be adapted or inspired or which may be or has been used or included in the Picture, including, without limitation, the Screenplay, the characters and all other scripts, scenarios, screenplays, bibles, stories, treatments, novels, outlines, books, titles, concepts, manuscripts or other properties or materials of any kind or nature, in whatever state of completion and all drafts, versions and variations thereof (all of the foregoing herein collectively referred to as the "Literary Property"); (ii) All physical properties of every kind or nature of or relating to the Picture and all versions thereof, to the extent now or hereafter in existence, including, without limitation, exposed film, developed film, positives, negatives, prints, answer prints, special effects, pre-print materials (including interpositives, negatives, duplicate negatives, internegatives, color reversals, intermediates, lavenders, fine grain master prints and matrices, and all other forms of pre-print elements which may be necessary or useful to produce prints or other copies or additional pre-print elements, whether now known or hereafter devised), soundtracks, recordings, audio and video tapes and discs of all types and gauges, cutouts, trims and any and all other physical properties of every kind and nature relating to the Picture in whatever state of completion, and all duplicates, drafts, versions, variations and copies of each thereof (all of the foregoing herein collectively referred to as the "Physical Property"); (iii) All rights in and to all copyrights and renewals and extensions of copyrights, domestic and foreign, heretofore or hereafter obtained in the Picture or the Literary Property or any part thereof. The sale will be “AS IS, WHERE IS without warranty except for the transfer of title through Trustee.” The Picture may be subject to certain distribution and manufacturing rights held by Vivendi Entertainment. Vivendi Entertainment maintains an inventory of manufactured compact discs and has continued to distribute the Picture for the benefit of the bankruptcy estate of Premise Media Distribution, L.P.


Bibles?

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:14   

Creationist professional prevaricator sez:

Quote
Nothing at all to hide.


Remind us K-11 just for old times sake, was Sternberg fired from the Smithsonian?

Hmmmmm?

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:29   

Paranoia? :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:33   

Quote (MichaelJ @ June 24 2011,20:13)
Wouldn't you love to be a lawyer and have to come up with the following:


That certain feature-length motion picture ("Picture") entitled "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed" and all collateral, allied, ancillary, subsidiary and merchandising rights therein and thereto, and all properties and things of value pertaining thereto (as used in this paragraph, the term "Picture" shall mean and include the Picture, all of the aforesaid rights and the rights set forth in subparagraphs (i) through (iii) below), including, without limitation: (i) All rights of every kind and nature (including, without limitation, copyrights) in and to any literary, musical, dramatic or other literary material of any kind or nature upon which, in whole or in part, the Picture is or may be based, or from which it is or may be adapted or inspired or which may be or has been used or included in the Picture, including, without limitation, the Screenplay, the characters and all other scripts, scenarios, screenplays, bibles, stories, treatments, novels, outlines, books, titles, concepts, manuscripts or other properties or materials of any kind or nature, in whatever state of completion and all drafts, versions and variations thereof (all of the foregoing herein collectively referred to as the "Literary Property"); (ii) All physical properties of every kind or nature of or relating to the Picture and all versions thereof, to the extent now or hereafter in existence, including, without limitation, exposed film, developed film, positives, negatives, prints, answer prints, special effects, pre-print materials (including interpositives, negatives, duplicate negatives, internegatives, color reversals, intermediates, lavenders, fine grain master prints and matrices, and all other forms of pre-print elements which may be necessary or useful to produce prints or other copies or additional pre-print elements, whether now known or hereafter devised), soundtracks, recordings, audio and video tapes and discs of all types and gauges, cutouts, trims and any and all other physical properties of every kind and nature relating to the Picture in whatever state of completion, and all duplicates, drafts, versions, variations and copies of each thereof (all of the foregoing herein collectively referred to as the "Physical Property"); (iii) All rights in and to all copyrights and renewals and extensions of copyrights, domestic and foreign, heretofore or hereafter obtained in the Picture or the Literary Property or any part thereof. The sale will be “AS IS, WHERE IS without warranty except for the transfer of title through Trustee.” The Picture may be subject to certain distribution and manufacturing rights held by Vivendi Entertainment. Vivendi Entertainment maintains an inventory of manufactured compact discs and has continued to distribute the Picture for the benefit of the bankruptcy estate of Premise Media Distribution, L.P.


Bibles?

Producers of TV shows use the term "show bible" to refer to a guidebook written by a show's creator that lays out all the information the writers will need to know in order to maintain consistency from episode to episode.  I don't know how exactly this would apply to a "documentary" film, but I strongly suspect the term is used here in connection with this kind of "bible", not the other kind.  

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"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,20:41   

Some of the commenters at TalkRational Forum seem to strongly disagree with trying to bid on "Expelled".

Each stage in the religious antievolution movement's evolution is a progressive camouflaging of their motivations. The *only* protection for keeping science in the classroom and the religious antievolution arguments out is continuing to prove that, yes, it really still is just religious antievolution and not some form of science or advancing "academic freedom". It's possible that there is no "Wedge Document 2" awaiting in what's up for auction, but I'd be irresponsible if there were and I hadn't tried my best to get it. Besides which, there is no intention of restricting access to "Expelled". If anything, we want to provide more information in it, i.e., add in the true stuff that Miller and Stein cut out.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,21:19   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 25 2011,11:41)
Some of the commenters at TalkRational Forum seem to strongly disagree with trying to bid on "Expelled".

Each stage in the religious antievolution movement's evolution is a progressive camouflaging of their motivations. The *only* protection for keeping science in the classroom and the religious antievolution arguments out is continuing to prove that, yes, it really still is just religious antievolution and not some form of science or advancing "academic freedom". It's possible that there is no "Wedge Document 2" awaiting in what's up for auction, but I'd be irresponsible if there were and I hadn't tried my best to get it. Besides which, there is no intention of restricting access to "Expelled". If anything, we want to provide more information in it, i.e., add in the true stuff that Miller and Stein cut out.

With the hard core IDers we will look bad no matter what happens but I think that for those who are less rusted-on googling expelled and finding 100 satirical you-tube videos can only help.
Buyers will come in four camps
1. Us to use for education
2. Creationist organisations as a money stream.
3. Somebody like Ben Stein or the DI who wants to bury it or to stop 1 happening
4. insane

2/ I was wondering how much money is left to make out of it? Most of the people who want to see it will have seen it or bought the DVD. There probably already unsold stock already in the distribution channels.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,21:28   

I essentially don't expect any monetary return on value from "Expelled". I think I've seen it in program listings once in the past several months, and as Kevin Miller helpfully noted, there's an existing distribution agreement that's ongoing (and didn't stave off bankruptcy for Premise Media, so it can't be delivering much). The value of the materials associated with "Expelled" lies elsewhere for me and hopefully many others interested in fending off religious antievolution encroachments disguised as "academic freedom".

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4491
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,21:35   

I see that Michael Egnor noticed the announcement of TalkOrigins' involvement and chalked it up to atheists seeking to "bury" the movie. Olegt noted that I'm not an atheist in a reply.

I thought that I would mention that back in 2002, I attended the AMNH "intelligent design" debate and got pretty complete tape recordings (yes, tape) of the proceedings. I put MP3s of those up on the server for anyone to download. Dembski got all bent out of shape and insisted that AMNH make me take them down. So if Egnor or any other IDC advocate would care to compare records on exposing the debate, I think my reputation is quite up to that. There was "buud", too... he probably doesn't want to know about that.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,21:36   

Kelvin 11 boasted:

Quote
I have all of the interview transcripts on my computer, and I would gladly make them available online if they were actually my property.


Srsly, dood, why do you haz other people's property on your computer?  Isn't that theft?  Not that ethics matter to a creationist propagandist.  At least you've proven that much!

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,22:19   

Whatever happened to Kevin Miller's film about Kent Hovind? :)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2123
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,22:24   

"lavenders"???

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3305
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,22:24   

Meh, Miller is a liar.  We all know that.  Either he has the transcripts/notes (in which case he's stealing and if he doesn't turn them over to whomever buys the movie, then he's guilty of breaking several other laws including contract law and bankruptcy law as well) OR he doesn't have the transcripts/notes in which case, he's just being a tool.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
MichaelJ



Posts: 455
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,23:04   

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 25 2011,13:24)
Meh, Miller is a liar.  We all know that.  Either he has the transcripts/notes (in which case he's stealing and if he doesn't turn them over to whomever buys the movie, then he's guilty of breaking several other laws including contract law and bankruptcy law as well) OR he doesn't have the transcripts/notes in which case, he's just being a tool.

Not necessarily. As an IT consultant I have copies of most of the code I've written and notes of meetings etc. I'm just not allowed to break confidentiality.

I assume that this is the case with Kevin.

I have been on projects where I have been asked to remove all traces. This wasn't a trust issue more to protect people if our computers get seized by the guv'mnt.

  
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