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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,18:34   

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 23 2011,16:10)
I can commit $200 - if we're looking to increase the pot. Come on lurkers! maybe we could get some sort of automated mechanism?

Rich

I'll match that -- and that of two other people pledging a similar amount following this; But I do want the money back if we don't win. Is that possible ?

ETA: I just read the last post on the previous page. No refunds. I'll donate $300.
ETA: done

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,18:37   

Quote (steve_h @ June 23 2011,18:34)
Quote (Richardthughes @ June 23 2011,16:10)
I can commit $200 - if we're looking to increase the pot. Come on lurkers! maybe we could get some sort of automated mechanism?

Rich

I'll match that -- and that of one other person pledging a similar amount following this.

I just made a donation of $100.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
khan



Posts: 1486
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,18:57   

Quote (KenFair @ June 23 2011,19:06)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 23 2011,08:06)
We've got two out of three of the TalkOrigins Archive Foundation on board with making a bid, but we haven't heard back from the treasurer yet, who will be a critical participant on the final day of bidding.

We're on.

:)

Could you send an official twitter of facebook message that I (and others) could resend?

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"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

Frequency is just the plural of wavelength...
-JoeG

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4523
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,19:03   

The TalkOrigins Archive Foundation's primary mission is to support its projects (TalkOrigins, PT, TalkDesign). But we have supported other efforts as they became apparent. We can't guarantee success in getting "Expelled", but we can assure everyone that the funds will make things harder for religious antievolutionists to carry on their campaigns, just as our efforts have done to date.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4523
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,19:17   

I just tweeted the announcement with a link to our donations page and to Ken's long comment on donations.

http://twitter.com/#!/welsberr/status/84052119199547392

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,19:38   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 24 2011,02:03)
The TalkOrigins Archive Foundation's primary mission is to support its projects (TalkOrigins, PT, TalkDesign). But we have supported other efforts as they became apparent. We can't guarantee success in getting "Expelled", but we can assure everyone that the funds will make things harder for religious antievolutionists to carry on their campaigns, just as our efforts have done to date.

I'd like to see some sort of totalizer output.  Amount received so far:  200 300 600 onetyone fahsand etc, along with the planned expenditure, average running costs, amounts paid to expert  advisors(*)/the management, estimate of how long overheads are presently covered for (eg until 2011-mmm-dd without further donations),  and so on for the site.  What I currently see are some TO balance sheets from 2005. The amounts there are likely to be dwarfed by the amounts that come in now.
(*) eg. DrDr somewhere else.

  
csadams



Posts: 124
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,19:56   

Boilerplate FB:

Quote
Own a piece of history! Donate to help TalkOrigins bid on the rights to the anti-science video, "Expelled." Yes, $ bankruptcy followed the moral kind.

Among other ideas, it's been suggested that a version be produced which would point out the abundant lies and rank hypocrisy.

Donate at http://talkorigins.org/foundation/donate.html; read the fine print at the next link.


(1st comment = https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u....=28a29)

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Stand Up For REAL Science!

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,20:03   

this makes me so happy i almost believe in people again.  then i think "wait ben stein and kevin miller are people too" and i realize that you can only believe in some people.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4523
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,20:19   

I get reimbursed for payments to the TOA hosting providers, domain name registration, and I got reimbursed once for a set of Drupal books. The monthly ISP gets paid for this server, which hosts TalkDesign. We bought this server back in 2005, IIRC, and the one Reed Cartwright has just begun hosting PT on. As far as payments to principals, there aren't any. It's in our by-laws that people associated with the TOAF are unpaid. We can get reimbursed for expenses associated with running the site (as mentioned above), but there's nothing beyond that. Current annual expenses are (by my guess) in the $1,600 ballpark for the technical end of things, with the purchase every few years of a machine at somewhere upwards of $3,000. Maybe we can call it about $2,600 per year, with the hardware costs spread out over three years. There may be some financial fees that we get hit with that I don't know about. Is the above helpful?

I'm reluctant to try to do a totalizer on current donations -- that's information that we don't really want others to know before the close of the auction. Likewise the number of years of operating costs at the ~$2,600 figure above... that would let another bidder know too much. If there were to be a totalizer, it would be up to Ken. I don't have access to the PayPal numbers.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,20:36   

I was talking in general about sites soliciting donations without really saying how much they were getting or what they are spending it on.  If a site I enjoy is raising money because it's in danger of going under, that's a a different matter to one that is raising money to gold-plate its ceremonial Bugatti Veyron ™. In the latter case, I may be more motivated to spend my beloved dosh in order to reduce human rights violations or to acquire more lovely lovely cake.
eta: but the totalizer giving away any bidding advantage is understood.

  
Acipenser



Posts: 35
Joined: Jan. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,20:50   

I'm in for a $100.....

  
Cubist



Posts: 352
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,20:50   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 23 2011,15:31)
Two new docs for you guys to check out...

Considering how deceitful you've been in connection with EXPELLED, why on Earth would you expect anybody hereabouts to believe anything you say about any 'doc' you happen to be involved with? Mr. Miller, I will not tell you to go to Hell. Rather, I will simply note that if the Bible is correct about the post mortem fate God has in store for false witnesses, you are going to Hell. The Bible also says that you can avoid this fate, but in order to do so, you'll have to sincerely repent of, and atone for, your false-witness-bearing. And thus far, you haven't displayed any awareness of the fact that you have violated the Ninth Commandment, let alone acknowledged that you might actually have any need for the repent-and-atone thing.
Enjoy your stay in the lake of fire, Mr. Miller.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3046
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,21:28   

Quote (Acipenser @ June 23 2011,20:50)
I'm in for a $100.....

Me too! I wish it could be more. :)

ETA - and retweeted!

Edited by Kristine on June 23 2011,21:32

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,21:35   

Before you get too giddy: "The Picture may be subject to certain distribution and manufacturing rights held by Vivendi Entertainment. Vivendi Entertainment maintains an inventory of manufactured compact discs and has continued to distribute the Picture for the benefit of the bankruptcy estate of Premise Media Distribution, L.P."

  
Kristine



Posts: 3046
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,21:41   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 23 2011,21:35)
Before you get too giddy: "The Picture may be subject to certain distribution and manufacturing rights held by Vivendi Entertainment. Vivendi Entertainment maintains an inventory of manufactured compact discs and has continued to distribute the Picture for the benefit of the bankruptcy estate of Premise Media Distribution, L.P."

I want those frakkin' archives!

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
kevinmillerxi



Posts: 92
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,21:55   

I don't think you understand. Whoever gains the rights to those archives will likely have to abide by the current distribution deal with Vivendi.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2163
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,22:29   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 23 2011,19:55)
I don't think you understand. Whoever gains the rights to those archives will likely have to abide by the current distribution deal with Vivendi.

Doesn't Vivendi own Universal, or Sony, or some such megamedia enterprise? You think they're going to give a flying dog turd what happens to this boat anchor? Hah!

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4523
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,22:31   

I don't think that you understand Kristine: the *other* materials are of particular interest, the stuff that Vivendi has no rights to or interest in.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,22:53   

Quote (Cubist @ June 11 2011,12:35)
It would be very appropriate for a pro-science organization to acquire the rights to EXPELLED. I particularly like the thought of using it to create an "annotated version" in which all the lies and misrepresentations are called out for what they are, with concise explanations of the truth on-screen plus pointers to detailed explanations for off-screen study.
Or... hmm. Maybe two 'annotated versions'? One AV to correct the crap science, and another to identify all the logical fallacies & rhetorical gambits they used?

I would finally have something to use my other 11 pages of notes on why "Expelled" is total bullshit.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Kristine



Posts: 3046
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,22:56   

Quote (kevinmillerxi @ June 23 2011,21:55)
I don't think you understand. Whoever gains the rights to those archives will likely have to abide by the current distribution deal with Vivendi.

Oh, will they give us a timetable for the distribution of the material related to "Crossroads"? ;)

Understand me now? :D

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4523
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,23:01   

I think Kevin is making it easier for us. I mean, if the distribution is already assigned and tied up, there's not a lot of point for a bidder aiming just at making money off the property. Fewer people should be interested in bidding, and those left will bid less.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Dr.GH



Posts: 1969
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 23 2011,23:10   

Quote (KenFair @ June 23 2011,16:29)
The TalkOrigins Foundation, Inc. (a Texas non-profit corporation) is accepting donations towards this project.  The Foundation's donation link is here.


I'll chip in on the additional costs described in #2;

Quote (KenFair @ June 23 2011,16:29)
(2) The auction has an 10% fee due from the buyer at the auction's close, which would be on top of the Foundation's bid amount (should the Foundation have the winning bid). The Foundation will also need funds to transport and store whatever physical property is associated with the motion picture. Thus, the Foundation's top bid will be somewhat less than the full authorized expenditure.


But, not carte blanc as per point #4;

Quote (KenFair @ June 23 2011,16:29)
(4) As a practical matter, the Foundation will be unable to return any donations made to the donors, even if the Foundation is unsuccessful in bidding for Expelled, or the Foundation is successful and the amount donated is greater than the bid.

Kenneth Fair
Secretary/Treasurer, TalkOrigins Foundation, Inc.


I have donated in the past to standard operating costs, and probably will in the future.  If you win the bid, I'll help some more.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Doc Bill



Posts: 1006
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,00:27   

Yeah, like the current distribution channel is doing SO well they don't need to file Chapter 11 ... oh, wait ...

  
Amadan



Posts: 1268
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,06:01   

In for €50. Happy to look at any EU/UK/Irish (as if!) legal stuff related to distribution etc.

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
George



Posts: 314
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,07:46   

In for a few euro.  Would have liked to donate more, but I'm recently un- self-employed.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3350
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,08:00   

I'm in for a couple of bucks.  I'd be happy to help out with anything else related to this project or whatever else is needed.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
KenFair



Posts: 3
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,10:23   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 23 2011,20:19)
I get reimbursed for payments to the TOA hosting providers, domain name registration, and I got reimbursed once for a set of Drupal books. The monthly ISP gets paid for this server, which hosts TalkDesign. We bought this server back in 2005, IIRC, and the one Reed Cartwright has just begun hosting PT on. As far as payments to principals, there aren't any. It's in our by-laws that people associated with the TOAF are unpaid. We can get reimbursed for expenses associated with running the site (as mentioned above), but there's nothing beyond that. Current annual expenses are (by my guess) in the $1,600 ballpark for the technical end of things, with the purchase every few years of a machine at somewhere upwards of $3,000. Maybe we can call it about $2,600 per year, with the hardware costs spread out over three years. There may be some financial fees that we get hit with that I don't know about. Is the above helpful?

I'm reluctant to try to do a totalizer on current donations -- that's information that we don't really want others to know before the close of the auction. Likewise the number of years of operating costs at the ~$2,600 figure above... that would let another bidder know too much. If there were to be a totalizer, it would be up to Ken. I don't have access to the PayPal numbers.


I haven't added up the costs over the years, but Wesley's estimates sound about right. The only significant expenses we've had have been the server purchases and the annual costs of hosting the various websites (T.O Archive, Panda's Thumb, etc.).

The Foundation gets a very small amount of revenue (a few dollars per month) from people buying books through our Amazon links. We get occasional donations from people. We haven't needed to do much in the way of fundraising; between these two sources, we've generally made enough to cover the expenses Wesley listed.

Like Wesley, I'm reluctant to give donation totals in the interim, for the reason Wesley states. I will say that we've gotten a few thousand dollars in donations over the past 24 hours. I will provide a total once this process is complete.

Regarding returning donations: The Foundation's directors discussed whether this would be possible or feasible before I posted the donation request. You must understand that this possibility/opportunity of bidding on Expelled only came to our attention very recently (I only learned of it yesterday morning). If we had more time, we might have come up a different way to fund this project.

It may actually be possible to return donations if our bid is unsuccessful, and we will investigate that possibility. But we are not sure at this point that we will be able to return donations, and we did not want to make a promise we could not fulfill. Thus the disclaimer that we could not guarantee how the donated funds would be used. I don't want anyone feeling misled about what they're doing, and by all means, if you have any such concerns, I would rather that you did not donate.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10324
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,10:41   

$200 given.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
xinit



Posts: 4
Joined: June 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,13:32   

Has there been any discussion with what might be done / could be done with the rights and materials should they be acquired? Might be interesting if all the extra non-movie pieces could be made available freely for CC derivative works...

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3350
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 24 2011,13:35   

Quote (xinit @ June 24 2011,13:32)
Has there been any discussion with what might be done / could be done with the rights and materials should they be acquired? Might be interesting if all the extra non-movie pieces could be made available freely for CC derivative works...

I'm personally thinking an MST3K style play over.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
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