Joined: Jan. 2006
Wow, stepped away to watch a movie and then watch the Colts kick the crap out of the Eagles (fell asleep late in the fourth quarter) and all sorts of stuff gets posted here.
Who went and decided it was ok for you guys to voice opinions without my permission? Bastards.
Ok lemme start at the top....
|Quote (Louis @ Nov. 26 2006,12:07)|
|I hope people understand what I'm driving at there).|
I think you and I are on the same page, Louis. Not surprising as we share such a great name.
|Quote (Louis @ Nov. 26 2006,12:07)|
|P.S. Liked the Lenny quote|
I doubt one can ever go seriously wrong quoting the good Rev. Dr.
As for snakes... snakes are very cool, but ever since the incident wherein one decided in the middle of the night to share my sleeping bag whilst I was on military maneuvers, I confess that I prefer them on the other side of some very thick glass. You will, I hope, forgive me this small idiosyncrasy.
|Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 26 2006,12:08)|
|They followed me to a certain extent into freedom because they were drawn to my joie de vivre, if I may say so myself, but then wanted me to settle down and sit in church and give up this and that part of my individuality until I ended up looking like every other church lady.|
Always good to see your smiling face, Kristine. Please don't ever become a church lady. I fear we godless bastards would stand no chance against you.
|Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Nov. 26 2006,12:39)|
|Religion is the root of all evil? Bollocks! Just about everything mankind has come up with has been used for both bad and good.|
While religion may not be the Root of all evil, it is certainly the kludge of a great many evil doers. A disproportionately large amount of them, I dare say. That being said, let me reiterate my contention that I don't give a flying fig about anyone's religious opinions, so long as they are not being pushed on anyone else.
Again, the heart of this particular fight is that they are being pushed on everyone else.
While I have no problem with saying "Science has nothing to say about your supernatural god fellow," I do see a problem with "Science can accommodate your supernatural god fellow". That shoe is on the wrong foot.
|Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 26 2006,14:31)|
|My father believed that everyone who didn't accept Jesus Christ as his/her savior didn't go to heaven. My uncle told me that if I believed in evolution I was going to ####. |
Kristine, I don't wish to upset you in any way, but tangentially, it seems to me that going around threatening children with everlasting torture and pain if they don't think along the party lines is abusive. But that is another fight, which has been taken up in this AtBC thread, a while back.
|Quote (someotherguy @ Nov. 26 2006,15:05)|
|I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that's bothered by this massive cluster fuck of an argument.|
Indeed you are not. Take comfort in that.
|Quote (Russel @ Nov. 26 2006,15:36)|
|Wanna know my opinion?|
Of course you do! Who wouldn't?
Yes, of course we do! Seriously, an interesting proposal, and one which I shall keep in mind henceforth. Thank you for that.
|Quote (the egregiously misnomered skeptic @ anytime he has ever said anything, it's really all the same shit repeated ad nauseum)|
|blah blah blah|
Please do not construe my policy of ignoring your comments in their entirety to in any way be related to the fact that you are religious. It is not. It is, however, a direct result of the fact that you are an unentertaining idiot.
|Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Nov. 26 2006,15:45)|
|I am arguing that people should be judged on their actions and not beliefs.|
Quite. It is the actions that matter. In this case, it is specifically the actions of people who would see their superstitions taught in my children's science class. I'm also vehemently opposed to being forced to live my life according to those superstitions. Different fight, same enemy.
guthrie, you begin your comment with
|Quote (guthrie the first part @ Nov. 26 2006,15:46)|
|I cant come up with any particular sensible thing to say about this.|
and yet you say
|Quote (guthrie the second part @ Nov. 26 2006,15:46)|
|HHMMmm, so maybe the two sides are really going to get married and live happily ever after? |
I doubt it. But it seems to me that there is a similar amount of talking past each other going on here.
which is rather sensible from my seat here by the light of my brand new flat LCD monitor. (I just had to brag on my wife who bought me a new computer!
Further, you mentioned
|Quote (guthrie in conclusion @ Nov. 26 2006,15:46)|
|I think in MY ideal world, I would have teleported into the rooms that the people who are involved in this are in, and slugged them with some "perspective juice" to bring them down from their hobby horses.|
I do hope you would include me in such an adventure.
As this comment is getting boringly long and it is now nearly 4AM, I suppose I shall finish (for now)with this...
|Quote (The Good Reverend Dr. Lenny Flank @ Nov. 26 2006,16:04)|
THAT is the crux of the matter.
|Quote (Lou FCD @ Nov. 26 2006,11:13)|
|Personally, as long as the superstitious don't bother me or the education of my children or the law of my country, I don't give a flying fig what they believe.|
Herein lies the crux of the matter.
They do. At least a certain very vocal subset of them do.
It is indeed a very small subset. And indeed, most of the theists in the US are helping us *fight against that small subset*.
Do we welcome their help, or do we refuse to associate with people whose religious opinions we don't like.
I welcome their help and am happy to fight alongside them against our mutual enemy.
Others simply can't tolerate having a theist of any sort anywhere within smelling distance.
And that is what the whole "fight" is about.
While I admit to a certain immodest penchant for "hearing" my own "voice", it is a special occasion to be quoted by the esteemed good Dr. and I freely admit a large cranial swelling occurs in such rare instances.
But if I may, please allow me a small addendum to your comment. There are, in fact, some of us who are simply rubbed the wrong way when we feel like we have been shoved behind the curtain to make room at the public lectern for a theistic ally. It does seem sometimes that the stage becomes inexplicably small at their arrival.
My utter lack of scientific qualifications notwithstanding, is there truly no room for me upon the stage?
More plainly, I believe that at least some of this internal dispute might be resolved if the likes of Drs. Dawkins and Myers weren't made to feel that they were unceremoniously dismissed to allow for the dog and pony show of the likes of Dr. Miller.
I cast no dispersion on the qualifications of Dr. Miller, and certainly not based on his theism. I certainly welcome his help, his voice, which carries much more weight than my own. Indeed that is the point. But in our efforts to reason with the reasonable theists and say "Hey lookee here, you can be a scientist AND a theist", it does seem that Drs. Dawkins and Myers sometimes get treated as our "dirty little secret". Perhaps this is the source of at least some of their rancor.
So yes, Lenny. Of course I personally welcome Ken Miller's help. I just don't want Richard Dawkins to be shoved away in the process.
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. - carlsonjok - deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman - Wolfhound
Seduction by Louis, my NSFW new photography website.