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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Art



Posts: 69
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,06:49   

PaV now says:
 
Quote
"PO: Current Darwinian thought suggests that so-called ‘gene conversion’ is the process/mechanism by which speciation can occur, and, presumably, up to macroevolutionary changes. However, this mechanism presupposes that duplicated genes have no function, and are therefore free to neutrally evolve–something which is now being questioned since psuedogenes have been found to be involved in gene regulation. Again, without having access to the entire paper, the critical phrase seems to be ‘new function’: that is, the authors are not just talking about the rate of gene duplication, but the rate at which these new genes develop a new function. My ’simple’ calculation based on this rate points out that the rate which they measure is entirely too slow to account for major taxonomic change—macroevolution."


Well, that explains things.  Don't bother to actually read the paper before making grand proclamations about the results and their significance.

   
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,07:46   

Quote (Dr.GH @ July 28 2008,01:08)
Quote (Maya @ July 27 2008,13:12)
*blush*  Thanks!

PS:  As a rule I don't boink in public.

Hey! Public boinking will either make you rich, satisfied, or arrested. Or some combination of all three.

Satisfied and arrested I can see.  Rich?  Well, someone has a high opinion of himself....

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,07:49   

Quote (Maya @ July 28 2008,07:46)
Quote (Dr.GH @ July 28 2008,01:08)
Quote (Maya @ July 27 2008,13:12)
*blush*  Thanks!

PS:  As a rule I don't boink in public.

Hey! Public boinking will either make you rich, satisfied, or arrested. Or some combination of all three.

Satisfied and arrested I can see.  Rich?  Well, someone has a high opinion of himself....

Yes I do.


Maya, if you wish to talk to FFXL; http://patriotprodigy.blogspot.com/

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,08:18   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,07:49)
Maya, if you wish to talk to FFXL; http://patriotprodigy.blogspot.com/

Thanks, I sent him an email inviting him to respond to my post.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,09:36   

OlegT already cataloged this is the appropriate place, but:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-293183

Quote
5

William Dembski

07/28/2008

9:17 am
Bob O’H is no longer with this forum.


Sorry Bob; too much Genetics, not enough Genesis.

I wonder how Dave feels? No scientists left.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1969
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,09:43   

Quote
It would be even lovelier if the number was close to 1000. Instead, it seems to be closer to 154.

I haven't read through the paper that reports that properly, but it looks like its saying that they found 154 genes that were positively selected in humans, and 233 in the chimp lineage, so there are about 390 genes diverging between use and chimps (out of those studied).  That's still some way from 1000, though.

--------------
ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 1969
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,09:45   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,09:36)
OlegT already cataloged this is the appropriate place, but:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-293183

 
Quote
5

William Dembski

07/28/2008

9:17 am
Bob O’H is no longer with this forum.


Sorry Bob; too much Genetics, not enough Genesis.

I wonder how Dave feels? No scientists left.

*sniff*

It was a good innings.

--------------
ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
utidjian



Posts: 185
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,09:49   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 28 2008,09:45)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,09:36)
OlegT already cataloged this is the appropriate place, but:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-293183

   
Quote
5

William Dembski

07/28/2008

9:17 am
Bob O’H is no longer with this forum.


Sorry Bob; too much Genetics, not enough Genesis.

I wonder how Dave feels? No scientists left.

*sniff*

It was a good innings.

Damn sure was a good innings. I left a post at UD, right after your bannination:

"That is a shame. I rather liked reading Bobs challenges and how they were handled. I am also not so sure he was ever “with” this forum, but I get the meaning."

You will be missed but not missing it.

-DU-

--------------
Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,09:51   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 28 2008,09:43)
 
Quote
It would be even lovelier if the number was close to 1000. Instead, it seems to be closer to 154.

I haven't read through the paper that reports that properly, but it looks like its saying that they found 154 genes that were positively selected in humans, and 233 in the chimp lineage, so there are about 390 genes diverging between use and chimps (out of those studied).  That's still some way from 1000, though.

Our quotes are mined
Gonna Take You Right
Just Show Your Face
In Broad Daylight
I'm Telling You
On How I Feel
Gonna Hurt Your Mind
Don't Shoot To Kill
Come On, Come On,
Lay It On Me All Right...

I'm Giving You
On Count Of Three
To Show Your Stuff
Or Let It Be . . .
I'm Telling You
Just Watch Your Mouth
I Know Your Game
What You're About

Well They Say The Sky's
The Limit
And To Me That's Really True
But My Friend You Have
Seen Nothing
Just Wait 'Til I Get Through . . .

Because You’re Banned, You’re Banned-
Come On
(Banned Banned-Really, Really Banned)
You Know You’re Banned, You’re Banned-
You Know It
(Banned Banned-Really, Really Banned)
You Know You’re Banned, You’re Banned-
Come On, You Know
(Banned Banned-Really, Really Banned)
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
Just To Tell You Once Again,
Who's Banned . . .






Edited by Lou FCD on July 30 2008,10:32

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1969
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:01   

Thanks, Rich.  I think.  And utidjian.

The odd thing is that I can see how we could have made progress from Denyse's last comment.  She doe clarify what she was saying, and we might have been able find some common ground.  Ho hum.

--------------
ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:03   

Shamone, Bob.

Are there any scientists left at UD? Can't have the readership have their heads filled with silly "facts".

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:22   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 28 2008,10:01)
Thanks, Rich.  I think.  And utidjian.

The odd thing is that I can see how we could have made progress from Denyse's last comment.  She doe clarify what she was saying, and we might have been able find some common ground.  Ho hum.

Pffft. You never would have got anywhere with her.

I just loved how she wrote that, if scientists don't like the name "Darwinist" they should come up with their own name.  So, you suggest that "evolutionary biologist" is descriptive and accurate. And Denyse's response?  No! You no can has dat!

If she intended to maintain veto power, you would think she would have said so up front.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
dvunkannon



Posts: 1377
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:45   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,11:03)
Shamone, Bob.

Are there any scientists left at UD? Can't have the readership have their heads filled with silly "facts".

I think they still let Allen Macneill post.

--------------
I’m referring to evolution, not changes in allele frequencies. - Cornelius Hunter
I’m not an evolutionist, I’m a change in allele frequentist! - Nakashima

  
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:46   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,10:03)
Are there any scientists left at UD?

I am reminded of a hilarious (I think by accident, not design) quote from JAD after a round of DaveScot banninations. He wrote something along the lines of "Is anyone still here?" It was just perfect. (I can't find it--Recip Bill?)

Even from UD's "pathologically predisposed to perceiving persecution" perspective Bob O'H's dismissal seems just about the least defensible bannination they have performed, at least in my recollection.

On a related but different topic, I think F2XL is a near perfect amalgam of arrogance and ignorance. He is now my favorite UD commenter. The boy was born for the job. His comment after Lilley's firing:

The douche had it coming

is UD at its finest.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4238
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:50   

Quote (dheddle @ July 28 2008,11:46)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,10:03)
Are there any scientists left at UD?

I am reminded of a hilarious (I think by accident, not design) quote from JAD after a round of DaveScot banninations. He wrote something along the lines of "Is anyone still here?" It was just perfect. (I can't find it--Recip Bill?)

It happened here, coincidently following my one and only bannination from UD. That thread was a classic. And a banbath.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,10:54   

Thanks RB--Upon a second reading I see JAD intended the comment. Go JAD.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,11:13   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,09:51)
Quote (Bob O'H @ July 28 2008,09:43)
   
Quote
It would be even lovelier if the number was close to 1000. Instead, it seems to be closer to 154.

I haven't read through the paper that reports that properly, but it looks like its saying that they found 154 genes that were positively selected in humans, and 233 in the chimp lineage, so there are about 390 genes diverging between use and chimps (out of those studied).  That's still some way from 1000, though.

Our quotes are mined
Gonna Take You Right
Just Show Your Face
In Broad Daylight
I'm Telling You
On How I Feel
Gonna Hurt Your Mind
Don't Shoot To Kill
Come On, Come On,
Lay It On Me All Right...

I'm Giving You
On Count Of Three
To Show Your Stuff
Or Let It Be . . .
I'm Telling You
Just Watch Your Mouth
I Know Your Game
What You're About

Well They Say The Sky's
The Limit
And To Me That's Really True
But My Friend You Have
Seen Nothing
Just Wait 'Til I Get Through . . .

Because You’re Banned, You’re Banned-
Come On
(Banned Banned-Really, Really Banned)
You Know You’re Banned, You’re Banned-
You Know It
(Banned Banned-Really, Really Banned)
You Know You’re Banned, You’re Banned-
Come On, You Know
(Banned Banned-Really, Really Banned)
And The Whole World Has To
Answer Right Now
Just To Tell You Once Again,
Who's Banned . . .


[

Got to give this some POTW love today.  Anytime you can tie Michael Jackson to ID is a good post IMO.

Plus, I am going to be humming this under my breath for the rest of the day.

Damn you richardthughes! Damn you all to hell!





--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1365
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,11:29   

Quote (dvunkannon @ July 28 2008,05:45)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,11:03)
Shamone, Bob.

Are there any scientists left at UD? Can't have the readership have their heads filled with silly "facts".

I think they still let Allen Macneill post.

I seem to recall Allen MacNeill saying he was going into self-imposed exile from UD, because of their moderation policy, connected with this thread.

  
lcd



Posts: 137
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,11:41   

I don't understand.

Mr. Heddle, am I correct in thinking you are a Creationist of some sort?  The correlation is that you believe in God and His Works and Word, correct?

Why does it seem as you not really welcomed at UD and other Creationist sites?  Yes, I will concede that ID and IC are Creationist ideas.  What I do wish for is more science from them to prove Darwin wrong and that God is indeed the First, and I might add, only Creator.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,11:46   

I believe that Dave is fine with Evolution but is more a Cosmological ID type erm.. person.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,11:48   

Quote (lcd @ July 28 2008,11:41)
 Yes, I will concede that ID and IC are Creationist ideas.  What I do wish for is more science from them to prove Darwin wrong and that God is indeed the First, and I might add, only Creator.

I must say your god is a bit pathetic if Charles Darwin is such a threat.

What does "proving Darwin wrong" have to do either way with if your god exists or not? What if "Darwinism" never gets disproved? Does that mean you don't go to heaven? Are you not a believer at the moment then or are you waiting for Darwinism to be proven wrong before you commit yourself? Why am I even bothering!?

Nobody's going to "prove Darwin wrong" unless you think somehow the concept of "a group of organisms competing for resources and replicating" is somehow going to be invalidated.

Darwin pointed the way. Nobody's going to prove Darwin wrong in the same what that Newton and his apple is not going to be proved wrong. Not that that ever happened.

I too look forwards to "ID science". It's good of you to acknowledge that, as yet, it does not exist.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,12:32   

Quote (dheddle @ July 28 2008,10:46)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,10:03)
Are there any scientists left at UD?

I am reminded of a hilarious (I think by accident, not design) quote from JAD after a round of DaveScot banninations. He wrote something along the lines of "Is anyone still here?" It was just perfect. (I can't find it--Recip Bill?)

Even from UD's "pathologically predisposed to perceiving persecution" perspective Bob O'H's dismissal seems just about the least defensible bannination they have performed, at least in my recollection.

On a related but different topic, I think F2XL is a near perfect amalgam of arrogance and ignorance. He is now my favorite UD commenter. The boy was born for the job. His comment after Lilley's firing:

The douche had it coming

is UD at its finest.

Comment has gone...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,12:43   

Quote (lcd @ July 28 2008,11:41)
I don't understand.

Mr. Heddle, am I correct in thinking you are a Creationist of some sort?  The correlation is that you believe in God and His Works and Word, correct?

Why does it seem as you not really welcomed at UD and other Creationist sites?  Yes, I will concede that ID and IC are Creationist ideas.  What I do wish for is more science from them to prove Darwin wrong and that God is indeed the First, and I might add, only Creator.

lcd,

It is because of irreconcilable differences over the ID-as-science meme.

BTW,

for his lyrical offering, I second Richard Hughes for POTW, in spite of his unspeakable lack of propriety in bashing the world's greatest sport.

Richard

 
Quote
Comment has gone...


Oh no...even the outside chance that I may have had something to do with that will torment my soul forever...

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,12:55   

Non should profit from Bob's casting out.
How could I enjoy my PoTW when a confused lurker hath not Bob's logic and scientific knowledge to protect him from the tard at uncommon descent? Who among us could enjoy his cheezy poofs and wipe his little orange stained chipolata-like fingers on his wife beater in smug satisfaction when another Samuel Chen is being born from the creobottery of Uncommon Descent?

Today, brothers, we weep together as the endarkenment extinguished another flame.

Bob. Bob O'h. Called that because of the way he makes birds exhale with pleasant surprise. We salute you? erm, I mean, WE SALUTE YOU! Are you a man, or a myth? A Manyth, perhaps. You live in the land of Moonlanguage and ride a mighty plumed ostrich from Fjord to to windmill or whatever cliched shit they have there.

But, You will be avenged! From the depths of parody I summon thee, Sock-puppets. Fly, my pretties. Make little sense. Be agreed with. Run with scissors where intellectual self-harmers talk design.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,12:57   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,12:55)
Bob. Bob O'h. Called that because of the way he makes birds exhale with pleasant surprise.

I thought this went out in the Sixties?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,12:58   

Richtardeth
Quote
But, You will be avenged! From the depths of parody I summon thee, Sock-puppets. Fly, my pretties. Make little sense. Be agreed with. Run with scissors where intellectual self-harmers talk design.


honestly, i can't bear myself to chant the spell to conjure one these days.  i should hire some undergrads to do my sockpuppeting for me.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,12:59   

Quote (carlsonjok @ July 28 2008,12:57)
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,12:55)
Bob. Bob O'h. Called that because of the way he makes birds exhale with pleasant surprise.

I thought this went out in the Sixties?

He's like Gandalf with Birkenstocks.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,13:09   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ July 28 2008,10:50)
Quote (dheddle @ July 28 2008,11:46)
   
Quote (Richardthughes @ July 28 2008,10:03)
Are there any scientists left at UD?

I am reminded of a hilarious (I think by accident, not design) quote from JAD after a round of DaveScot banninations. He wrote something along the lines of "Is anyone still here?" It was just perfect. (I can't find it--Recip Bill?)

It happened here, coincidently following my one and only bannination from UD. That thread was a classic. And a banbath.

I'm glad to see I'm in such good company.  You, Karl, and Tom were also clearly vulgar trolls with nothing to contribute to the discussion.  Good riddance to the lot of you . . . er, us!

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,13:21   

This one can't be blamed on Darwin, so I rather doubt Dembski will be trying to make any of his patented Trenchant Social Commentary on this one, or indeed mention it at all:

 
Quote
Police: Man shot churchgoers over liberal views
By DUNCAN MANSFIELD Associated Press Writer

Jul 28th, 2008 | KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- An unemployed man accused of opening fire with a shotgun and killing two people at a Unitarian church apparently targeted the congregation out of hatred for its support of liberal social policies, police said Monday.

Knoxville Police Chief Sterling Owen IV said a signed, four-page letter written by Jim D. Adkisson, 58, was found in his small SUV in the church parking lot. Authorities said he was an apparent stranger to the Tennessee church where gunfire punctuated a children's performance based on the musical "Annie." Two people were killed and seven wounded Sunday.

"It appears that what brought him to this horrible event was his lack of being able to obtain a job, his frustration over that and his stated hatred of the liberal movement," Owen said at a news conference.

No children were hurt, but five people remained in serious or critical condition Monday. A burly usher who died is being hailed as a hero for shielding others from gunfire at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church. Witnesses said some of the church members wrestled the suspect to the ground after he pulled a shotgun from a guitar case and fired three times.

Adkisson, who is charged with one count of first-degree murder, remained jailed Monday under "close observation" on $1 million bail, authorities said. More charges were expected.

The Unitarian-Universalist church promotes progressive social work, including advocacy of women and gay rights. The Knoxville congregation also has provided sanctuary for political refugees, fed the homeless and founded a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, according to its Web site.

Owen said the letter indicated Adkisson, who neighbors said had previously worked as a truck driver, did not expect to leave the church alive. He added the man reported having no family or next-of-kin.

"He certainly intended to take a lot of casualties," Owen said. "He had 76 rounds with him."

Police said Adkisson carried a 12-gauge semiautomatic shotgun into the church in a guitar case, but it appeared no specific person was targeted. A search of his house also turned up a .38-caliber handgun, Owen added.

Owen said authorities believe the suspect had gone to the Unitarian church because of "some publicity in the recent past regarding its liberal stance on things."

Unitarians have roots in a movement that rejected Puritan orthodoxy in New England. Although individual Unitarian churches can vary dramatically in outlooks, most congregations retain a deep commitment to social justice, which has led many to embrace liberal stances on the ordination of women, civil rights and gay rights.

Adkisson lived in a surburb north of Knoxville, about a 20 minutes' drive from the Unitarian church in an established neighborhood of older homes and several other houses of worship.

The police chief said the shotgun was bought at a pawn shop about a month ago and Adkisson wrote the letter in the last week or so. But he added: "I am sure this is something that has been building a long time in terms of his anger."

He said the state recently sent a letter to Adkisson telling him food stamps he had been receiving would be reduced or eliminated.

Investigators were reviewing several video recordings of the performance by parents and church members. Owen said police would not release the videos nor Adkisson's letter until they have been entered into evidence.

The shooting started as about 200 people watched a show put on by 25 children.

Church member Mark Harmon said he was in the first row when he heard "an incredibly loud bang." He thought the noise was part of the play, then he heard another bang and saw a woman bleeding as he dove for cover.

"It seems so unreal," Harmon said.

Church members praised Greg McKendry, 60, saying he attempted to block the gunfire. Barbara Kemper said that McKendry, who died, "stood in the front of the gunman and took the blast to protect the rest of us."

Kemper said the gunman shouted before he opened fire, though police said others didn't recall him saying anything.

"It was hateful words. He was saying hateful things," she said, refusing to elaborate.

"Greg McKendry was a very large gentleman, one of those people you might describe as a refrigerator with a head," said church member Schera Chadwick. "He looked like a football player. He did obviously stand up and put himself in between the shooter and the congregation."

A second victim who died hours later was identified as Linda Kraeger, 61.

Officials said Adkisson was arraigned Sunday night and faces his next court hearing Aug. 5.

The shooting follows a December 2007 spree in which a man shot four staff members at a missionary training center near Denver, Colo., killing two, after being told he couldn't spend the night. About 12 hours later and 65 miles away in Colorado Springs, police say the 24-year-old man fatally shot a parishioner at a megachurch and wounded four others before killing himself.

———


This struck me:

Quote

He said the state recently sent a letter to Adkisson telling him food stamps he had been receiving would be reduced or eliminated.


For all his hatred of liberals, I doubt it was liberals or Unitarians who wanted to cut off his food stamps.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: July 28 2008,13:29   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 28 2008,13:21)
This one can't be blamed on Darwin

Are you sure? I am rather more optimistic that this law of nature*:

Every group of note will be named by someone as culpable for any given heinous act.

will not be violated.

* OK, OK, it's only a theory.

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Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
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