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Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4774
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2013,11:13   

John Freshwater lost his appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court. The court's majority decision was that the Mount Vernon schools properly terminated his teaching contract for insubordination.

The dissenting opinions are notable for their bald assertion that shoving IDC into science classes is appropriate.

This brings to a close a long, contentious, and expensive process that should never have taken as much time and resources away from education as it did.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Robin



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Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2013,11:51   

I am stunned that the verdict came out 4-3 and that the three dissenters all think that religion in science is perfectly OK. It does show that such a legal course for the ID folk may one day pay off. Yikes...

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Glen Davidson



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Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2013,12:20   

Close--but yes, cigar!

Glen Davidson

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3636
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 19 2013,12:43   

Quote (Robin @ Nov. 19 2013,11:51)
I am stunned that the verdict came out 4-3 and that the three dissenters all think that religion in science is perfectly OK. It does show that such a legal course for the ID folk may one day pay off. Yikes...

There's a really interesting article at thinkprogress about the change in the conservative judiciary.  I am not offering it for discussion as it is wildly off topic, but interested parties may find some value: http://thinkprogress.org/justice....diciary

I too am pleased by the OH SC decision, but we are far from ending the problem.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

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Lou FCD



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 20 2013,06:49   

Quote (Robin @ Nov. 19 2013,12:51)
I am stunned ...that the three dissenters all think that religion in science is perfectly OK.

I'm not.

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
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Cubist



Posts: 451
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 20 2013,12:55   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Nov. 19 2013,11:13)
John Freshwater lost his appeal to the Ohio Supreme Court. The court's majority decision was that the Mount Vernon schools properly terminated his teaching contract for insubordination.

The dissenting opinions are notable for their bald assertion that shoving IDC into science classes is appropriate.

This brings to a close a long, contentious, and expensive process that should never have taken as much time and resources away from education as it did.

It's not over 'til it's over. Yes, the Ohio Supreme Court has ruled on this case… but there's at least one more Court to which Freshwater could appeal, that being the US Supreme Court. Considering the historical record of this case, it's pretty clear that Freshwater is absolutely willing to go to any lengths whatsoever on behalf of his invisible friend, and that Freshwater will therefore regard the Ohio Supremes' decision as nothing more than a temporary obstruction to his (Freshwater's) crusade. Of course, there may or may not be some practical obstacles in the was of Freshwater's willingness to pursue (what he regards as) Justice…
The biggest question is whether or not Freshwater can find a lawyer willing to push his sad case up to the US Supremes; given the existence of such fine barristers as make up the Thomas More Legal Center and the Rutherford Institute, it would be imprudent to presume that Freshwater cannot now find an advocate for his case.
The second-biggest question is whether or not the US Supremes would be willing to take this case. I suspect that Scalia, at the very least, would be more than willing, and he's hardly alone in his support for religious indoctrination in Constitutionally-inappropriate settings.
Yes, it looks like Freshwater's case is now closed. All I'm sayin' is, Freshwater is a god-besotted zealot, and it's never a good idea to underestimate the fervor of a god-besotted zealot.
And don't overlook the fact that a significant chunk of the Ohio Supremes agreed that ID is A-OK for science classes. Regardless of whether or not this particular battle is over, the war is definitely going to continue.

  
midwifetoad



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Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 20 2013,13:14   

The OSC chose wisely. They ruled on grounds that offer no incentive for appeal, and nothing that might interest the USSC.

The he said she said employment dispute is not Supreme Court material. There are no constitutional issues.

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Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3636
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 20 2013,15:21   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Nov. 20 2013,13:14)
The OSC chose wisely. They ruled on grounds that offer no incentive for appeal, and nothing that might interest the USSC.

The he said she said employment dispute is not Supreme Court material. There are no constitutional issues.

That's what I was about to say.  The OH SC ruled only that he was lawfully terminated for insubordination.  That's the only thing the US SC can rule on (provided that my 12th government class is being recalled correctly).  And they have bigger fish to fry.

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Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
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