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  Topic: Presidential Politics & Antievolution, Tracking the issue< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2008,17:52   

Not evilution, precisely, but ScienceDebate2008 answers from Obama!

Also:

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 30 2008,21:49   

Quote (ERV @ Aug. 30 2008,17:52)
Not evilution, precisely, but ScienceDebate2008 answers from Obama!

Also:

PERFECT!  - NAILED it!  Well, figuratively, anyway.

In my reading I came accross something else scary..
Consider Palin vs. Putin - ouch!

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3556
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2008,03:09   

The science debate looks like a good idea. I wish the networks would devote a major debate to science.

The image, however, strikes me as something that will backfire. The results of making fun of Reagan's age and senility come to mind.

The experience issue would make more sense if Biden were topping the Democrat ticket and Obama and Palin were opponents at the same level.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2008,05:57   

AiG has weighed in:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article....tionist

Quote
In 2006, then-candidate Palin indicated in a TV debate that creation should be taught alongside evolution in the state’s public schools, declaring that schools should “teach both. You know, don’t be afraid of information. Healthy debate is so important, and it’s so valuable in our schools. I am a proponent of teaching both.”3 Now, in stating this, she may have been advocating the teaching of scientific creationism, as opposed to biblical creationism4 (the latter having been deemed unconstitutional by the U.S. Supreme Court in 19875), but we don’t really know.

“I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.”In an interview the next day, Palin (if the Anchorage Daily News report is correct) appeared to backpedal somewhat, saying that she meant to say that a discussion of alternative views should be allowed but not forced on students, adding: “I don’t think there should be a prohibition against debate if it comes up in class. It doesn’t have to be part of the curriculum.” In other words, Palin was not suggesting that the teaching of creation should be mandated (perhaps realizing that her statement the day before came across as arguing that creation must be in the science curriculum).

The Anchorage newspaper also reported her as saying she would not push the state’s board of education (governors in Alaska appoint board members, and the legislators confirm them) to add creationist alternatives to evolution to the state’s curriculum. The paper asked for her personal view on evolution, and she said, “I believe we have a creator.”


She's clearly a YEC but just wont admit it.

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2008,09:29   

There seems to be some dominionist connections possible.

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/08/be_afraid_1.php#comments

These groups make Huckabee look mainstream.

  
Peter Henderson



Posts: 298
Joined: Aug. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 31 2008,10:06   

And there's more:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

  
Amadan



Posts: 1244
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,06:16   

It seems to me that there's a bit of over-hyping going on here. What it seems to boil down to is that Palin avoids offending The Core in her statements on education and would probably go along with Teaching the Controversy™ more out of sympathy than conviction. She said "I believe we were created" or words to that effect. Big deal. So do all the theistic evos.

Is she a dominionist trojan horse? The evidence (?) is that her pastor is a bit of a nut-job who associates with the osculospumatory fringe.

Rev. Wright, anyone?

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,09:30   

Quote (Peter Henderson @ Aug. 31 2008,10:06)
And there's more:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

This is absurd. The only thing I knew about the dailyKos until the Palin announcement is that darkSyde wrote for them, and I like darkSyde. But in the last two days I see that dailyKos is a) “reporting” that Palin’s Down child is actually her grandchild, and now b) Palin is a hardcore dominionist. I dunno. Maybe being a sort of apolitical centrist helps me to see that many in either camp will accept crap uncritically, as long as it is crap from their side. I don’t see any difference at all between “Palin is a dominionist” and “Obama is a Moslem.” And the dailyKos, I must conclude, is a worthless World Net Daily sort of rag.

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4482
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,10:36   

There is a disparity in sourcing of political crap, it seems to me. We've got bloggers at DailyKos being weird. I didn't like guilt-by-way-too-tenuous-association when dished up by John Stormer, and it doesn't seem to have improved. On the other side, we've seen Karl Rove do his business as part of the campaigning and administration. I doubt we'll see a negative campaign out of the Obama camp that comes anywhere near the Rovian "black love child" stunt used against McCain in 2000.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,12:39   

Even if Palin is covering up for her daughter's pregnancy, it would only matter if she were a Dem.  The fundies will howl and moan if it is true and Palin will apologize to god and they will all get along because the fundies need the Reps. and the Reps. need the fundies.

Isn't that why McCain went a courtin' at Bob Jones and Liberty Universities?  Didn't he also make overtures towards ID in schools?  He's willing to do or say anything to get elected (maverick my arse) and if supporting ID would get him there, he would do it.  If polls say that 51% of Americans want ID taught in schools, do you think he would speak against it?

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,12:55   

Quote (GCT @ Sep. 01 2008,12:39)
Even if Palin is covering up for her daughter's pregnancy, it would only matter if she were a Dem.  The fundies will howl and moan if it is true and Palin will apologize to god and they will all get along because the fundies need the Reps. and the Reps. need the fundies.

Isn't that why McCain went a courtin' at Bob Jones and Liberty Universities?  Didn't he also make overtures towards ID in schools?  He's willing to do or say anything to get elected (maverick my arse) and if supporting ID would get him there, he would do it.  If polls say that 51% of Americans want ID taught in schools, do you think he would speak against it?

I predict that it will eventually be revealed that Rove et al. planted the story about Palin's daughter (remember that Rover learned his political ethics as a Nixon operative in the days of CREEP). This results in a  distraction for the left and mobilizes the troops on the right.

As long as the country falls for these "issues" about personalities and possible peccadilloes, the Republicans win. They won't win on the issues, and this allows the issues to be ignored.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,13:40   

Heads up, people.

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"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,13:47   

Quote (Ftk @ Sep. 01 2008,13:40)
Heads up, people.

Why are you whoring your blog here FTK? What's up, clicks down to single figures? Interest in ID waning? Desperate for a bit of attention.

Yeah, big whoop. Real blogs had the news hours ago in any case.

What do you think about the fact that Palen went on record as opposed to "explicit" sex education when abstinence education could be given instead?

Do you think their situation is somehow related to that?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,17:04   

Obama's response is appropriate and stands in stark contrast to McCain's attack on Chelsea Clinton in 1998

Quote
"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."


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The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
JAM



Posts: 503
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,17:30   

Quote (Quidam @ Sep. 01 2008,17:04)
Obama's response is appropriate and stands in stark contrast to McCain's attack on Chelsea Clinton in 1998

   
Quote
"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly?
Because her father is Janet Reno."

Your guy McCondo$ is a class act, eh, FTK?

Do you share his "family values," like the one that says it's cool to dump your wife for a filthy-rich beer heiress because:

1) she was crippled in a car accident, and
2) you were a POW?

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,17:47   

Um, perhaps you can point out where I suggested that McCain is a class act?    I've toyed around with idea of not voting at all in the Presidential election.   I find Palin interesting, but as yet know next to nothing about her.  

I think McCain was an ass to leave his his first wife.  Period.  Leaving her to marry a millionaire several times over doesn't impress me much either, but then none of us are without fault which makes it difficult to throw stones.

I still don't know for sure where I stand in this campaign, but I do feel like this Palin chick has more in common with the average joe than some of these folks on capital hill.  

BTW, you'll probably remember Obama's words where he stated that if his girls "made a mistake" he wouldn't want them "punished" by having a child.  I prefer to believe that he didn't think that comment through, as a child should never be considered a "punishment" regardless of what the situation is.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4362
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,17:59   

Quote (dheddle @ Sep. 01 2008,09:30)
 
Quote (Peter Henderson @ Aug. 31 2008,10:06)
And there's more:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29/163234/559/495/579213

This is absurd. The only thing I knew about the dailyKos until the Palin announcement is that darkSyde wrote for them, and I like darkSyde. But in the last two days I see that dailyKos is a) “reporting” that Palin’s Down child is actually her grandchild, and now b) Palin is a hardcore dominionist. I dunno. Maybe being a sort of apolitical centrist helps me to see that many in either camp will accept crap uncritically, as long as it is crap from their side. I don’t see any difference at all between “Palin is a dominionist” and “Obama is a Moslem.” And the dailyKos, I must conclude, is a worthless World Net Daily sort of rag.

Daily Kos is a self-moderated (read:  not moderated)blog.  As such, it attracts more than its share of nutters.  In fact, I would suspect that there are a great numbers of Repubs masquerading as "loyal liberals".

So, Heddle anad others, don't get your knickers in a twist.  It's the old "good bloggers at bad sites, and bad bloggers at good sites" meme.

Obama and Dems have reiterated "families are off limits", and I have seem more condemnations of scurilous attacks by kos bloggers than distatesful posts.

On a lighter note:

Here is a link to   FTK's   Sarah Palin's blog about being a candidate.



FTK / Sarah Palin's Blog

edited for extremely bad spelling

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,18:02   

Of course, the rest of the world is jealous of our freedoms.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
JAM



Posts: 503
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,18:04   

Quote (Ftk @ Sep. 01 2008,17:47)
Um, perhaps you can point out where I suggested that McCain is a class act?

Um, perhaps you can point out where I claimed that you did?
 
Quote
I've toyed around with idea of not voting at all in the Presidential election.   I find Palin interesting, but as yet know next to nothing about her.

I find her to be a predictably, profoundly dishonest Christianist scumbag. Did you hear that she's already lawyered up for the Troopergate scandal?  
 
Quote
I think McCain was an ass to leave his his first wife.  Period.

So why are so many of your fellow fundies cool with it?
 
Quote
Leaving her to marry a millionaire several times over doesn't impress me much either, but then none of us are without fault which makes it difficult to throw stones.

Jesus Christ spoke against hypocrisy, didn't He? I don't recall him saying anything about homosexuality or abortion or evolution, though.
 
Quote
I still don't know for sure where I stand in this campaign, but I do feel like this Palin chick has more in common with the average joe than some of these folks on capital hill.

But not in a good way. I want my leaders to be exceptional people. Why don't you? 
 
Quote
BTW, you'll probably remember Obama's words where he stated that if his girls "made a mistake" he wouldn't want them "punished" by having a child.  I prefer to believe that he didn't think that comment through, as a child should never be considered a "punishment" regardless of what the situation is.

Yep, and I see how you are dishonestly twisting them, too. The child herself is not the punishment, bearing and caring for the child is the punishment. Of course, you're probably too blinded by racism to see how you used the straw man fallacy there.

How about that abstinence-based sex education BS Palin endorses?

How about the idea that a 44-year-old woman (high-risk on the basis of age alone) who travels in her third trimester, has contractions (not B-H) and amniotic fluid leakage, yet remains in Texas to give a speech, flies through Seattle, drives through Anchorage and its NICUs, to give birth ~12 hours later in a suburban hospital with NO facilities for high-risk mothers or babies?

Did you know that her physician is a family practicioner, not OB-GYN?

Did you know that her physician has privileges at at least one of the Anchorage hospitals with an NICU? Why didn't she just meet them there?

You can't explain a single one of these actions as those of someone who views her baby's life as precious, FTK. On top of that, her decision to accept McCondo$'s offer and put her pregnant daughter in the spotlight was incredibly selfish. Her daughter has been punished like no child deserves to be punished.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,18:07   

It occurs to me, Sarah Palin reminds me a lot of FTK, or at least, what I think FTK aspires to.

And again, I bet it'll be revealed that Sarah Palin was Karl Rove's bright idea. It's far too fucked up and cynical a choice to have been thought up by anyone else.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,18:44   

Quote (JAM @ Sep. 01 2008,18:04)
Quote (Ftk @ Sep. 01 2008,17:47)
Um, perhaps you can point out where I suggested that McCain is a class act?

Um, perhaps you can point out where I claimed that you did?

Well, you did say:
Quote
Your guy McCondo$ is a class act, eh, FTK?

By referring to McCain as "her guy" you are implying that he has the FtK Seal of Approval.  I have no recall of FtK ever stamping McCain, or any of the other Republican contenders, with her imprimatur.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,19:18   

Apparently Palin is pretty well clueless about American history too.  She thinks the founding fathers wrote the pledge of allegiance with the "under god" part in it. :O

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4482
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,19:20   

Quote (GCT @ Sep. 01 2008,19:18)
Apparently Palin is pretty well clueless about American history too.  She thinks the founding fathers wrote the pledge of allegiance with the "under god" part in it. :O

If true, that is too precious. Link?

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,19:30   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 01 2008,20:20)
Quote (GCT @ Sep. 01 2008,19:18)
Apparently Palin is pretty well clueless about American history too.  She thinks the founding fathers wrote the pledge of allegiance with the "under god" part in it. :O

If true, that is too precious. Link?

Oh yeah, sorry.  Here it is.

It's question number 11.

ETA:  The other questions help to give an idea of some of her other positions.

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,19:58   

Quote (Ftk @ Sep. 01 2008,17:47)
I still don't know for sure where I stand in this campaign, but I do feel like this Palin chick has more in common with the average joe than some of these folks on capital hill.

And that, as we have learned, is surely an excellent reason to vote for the average joe to be president...

As you may not know, former Nebraska senator Roman Hruska is also in this camp. He was most famous for his defense of mediocrity, a la FtK. When Nixon nominated average-joe G. Harold Carrswell to the Supreme Court, Hruska defended him thusly.    
Quote
'Even if he were mediocre, there are a lot of mediocre judges and people and lawyers. They are entitled to a little representation, aren't they, and a little chance? We can't have all Brandeises, Frankfurters and Cardozos.

A mediocracy is definitely my idea of good government (not).

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,20:37   

I wouldn't call Pallin Ftk. Although I disagree with most of her politics, it sounds like she is strong willed and stands by her convictions. Ftk, on the otherhand twists and turns when confronted by anything she *implies* she believes in.

You would think after all these years that Brown would be elevated from someone who's idea's are more than *interesting*.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10114
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,20:48   

Quote (GCT @ Sep. 01 2008,19:30)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Sep. 01 2008,20:20)
 
Quote (GCT @ Sep. 01 2008,19:18)
Apparently Palin is pretty well clueless about American history too.  She thinks the founding fathers wrote the pledge of allegiance with the "under god" part in it. :O

If true, that is too precious. Link?

Oh yeah, sorry.  Here it is.

It's question number 11.

ETA:  The other questions help to give an idea of some of her other positions.

Not so good to start with a gaff..

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=palin+founding+fathers

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10114
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,20:59   

Bonus:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
JAM



Posts: 503
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,21:03   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2008,18:44)
Quote (JAM @ Sep. 01 2008,18:04)
Quote (Ftk @ Sep. 01 2008,17:47)
Um, perhaps you can point out where I suggested that McCain is a class act?

Um, perhaps you can point out where I claimed that you did?

Well, you did say:
Quote
Your guy McCondo$ is a class act, eh, FTK?

By referring to McCain as "her guy" you are implying that he has the FtK Seal of Approval.  I have no recall of FtK ever stamping McCain, or any of the other Republican contenders, with her imprimatur.

Gee, maybe you should have a look at her blog. She's gushing about McCondo$'s choice of Palin:

Quote
So, I'm officially getting back into the race.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2008,21:13   

Quote (JAM @ Sep. 01 2008,21:03)
Quote (carlsonjok @ Sep. 01 2008,18:44)

By referring to McCain as "her guy" you are implying that he has the FtK Seal of Approval.  I have no recall of FtK ever stamping McCain, or any of the other Republican contenders, with her imprimatur.

Gee, maybe you should have a look at her blog. She's gushing about McCondo$'s choice of Palin:

I did and I see nothing to support your statement that McCain is "her guy."  It is typically FtK; as in noncommittal. There is nothing to indicate who she will vote for, only that the race is shaping up to be interesting to her.  The following statement of hers implies that she has yet to make up her mind yet.
Quote
For the first time in history, we'll have either an African American or a Female in the Presidential or VP position. Seriously cool.

Indeed, I do remember at least once in the past that FtK indicated that she might not vote GOP in this election. But, do carry on venting your spleen at her.  I am sure you are right about who FtK will vote for. It is just a shame the poor dear hasn't caught up with you yet.  ;)

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
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