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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Steverino



Posts: 407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,13:00   

Quote (dmso74 @ Jan. 06 2009,11:12)
Jerry issues a throwdown:

 
Quote
So I suggested to Sal Gal (and to anyone else) to go through the OV site and bring the best arguments here to debate.

Is there any anti ID advocate that is willing to take up this challenge? My guess is that none will be forthcoming. For all those who claim that ID is bogus, give it a shot or as they say “forever hold your peace.”


very brave, offering to duel in an arena where the opposing side is consistently banned or held up in moderation for hours/days so that their statements get buried. has anyone ever seen jerry comment anywhere but in the UD womb?

How about an offer to "Jerry" to come here where opposing viewpoints won't be banned based on the position???

Can we bring'em here???

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2777
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,13:22   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,12:54)
My interpretation of Fuller is that he's an academic, and he sees what he's doing as an academic exercise.  So how this would play out in the real, political, world isn't so interesting to him.  He wants to show how ID an advance as a science.  Which is fine, and very funny to see how it's being resisted.

Then he's even dumber than I thought (despite his nationality). Everybody knows that nobody in the real ID "community" wants to have it "advance as a science". It's a culture war, and a sociologist should know that better than most of the UDiots!

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,13:25   

Actually, a peaceful exchange with the participation of Zachriel, myself, gpuccio, and kairosfocus has been going on for the last few days at Mark Frank's blog.  KF has already flounced once and returned.

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,13:27   

found at ISCID Brainstorms:

Quote
DaveScot
Member
Member # 1545

Icon 1 posted 05. January 2009 12:10      Profile for DaveScot   Email DaveScot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post  Dear John,

Uh huh. They (Myers, Elsberry, et al) fear you. You're very very scary.

Sign up for UD yourself. You won't last as long as you did when I was the moderator. They're less tolerant of assholes than I was.

[ 05. January 2009, 12:11: Message edited by: DaveScot ] IP: Logged

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,13:49   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2009,11:27)
found at ISCID Brainstorms:

 
Quote
DaveScot
Member
Member # 1545

Icon 1 posted 05. January 2009 12:10      Profile for DaveScot   Email DaveScot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post  Dear John,

Uh huh. They (Myers, Elsberry, et al) fear you. You're very very scary.

Sign up for UD yourself. You won't last as long as you did when I was the moderator. They're less tolerant of assholes than I was.

[ 05. January 2009, 12:11: Message edited by: DaveScot ] IP: Logged

Oh come on, you HAVE to quote Javison's reply!

 
Quote
I have repeatedly tried to register at UD and I have asked both you and O'Leary to provide me with a user name and password. O'Leary refuses and you call me an "asshole." Thanks for remaining in perfect character by calling me an "asshole." It doesn't get any better than this.

Both you and O'Leary are scared to death of me and my sources as well. Why else would you prevent me from participating?

Don't try to respond to this message because you can't without making yourself look even worse than you already have, as if that were conceivable.

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison

P.S. Now everybody knows what the A stands for.
You are beautiful Springer, just beautiful.

I love it so!


"Now everybody knows what the A stands for." Too cool!

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:06   

Also at your ISCID link from a previous page:

From Davison:

"Did you ever notice that they hardly ever mention me or my sources at After The Bar Closes, while they have whole threads dedicated to Dembski, O'Leary, Uncommon Descent and especially DaveScot on whom they heap abuse with great abandon? I think it is hilarious for you to ask me why I enjoy abuse when you get vastly more of it than I do. "

Well, maybe we should start a thread for JAD to heap abuse on him too, I think he would Love It So.

What holds me back is that picking on JAD would feel like picking on a kid that rides the short bus, and as a result would not be as much fun as picking on WAD, DaveScot and O'Leary, who can take care of themselves. Sort of.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:15   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 07 2009,06:22)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,12:54)
My interpretation of Fuller is that he's an academic, and he sees what he's doing as an academic exercise.  So how this would play out in the real, political, world isn't so interesting to him.  He wants to show how ID an advance as a science.  Which is fine, and very funny to see how it's being resisted.

Then he's even dumber than I thought (despite his nationality). Everybody knows that nobody in the real ID "community" wants to have it "advance as a science". It's a culture war, and a sociologist should know that better than most of the UDiots!

You would think that being a philosopher that he would be interested in the cultural underpinnings of the entire creationist movement.

I do find it hard to focus after a paragraph or two, but I think that Steve Fuller's message is changing as he thinks it through. I give it another few posts before he declares that ID is not science.

  
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:19   

Quote (olegt @ Jan. 07 2009,06:25)
Actually, a peaceful exchange with the participation of Zachriel, myself, gpuccio, and kairosfocus has been going on for the last few days at Mark Frank's blog.  KF has already flounced once and returned.

Interesting and very clear explanation of why CSI doesn't work. The ID replies seem to boil down to:

"I don't need to calculate CSI because the value is obvious. The values for proteins are based on them being randomly put together in one go because I don't believe your science."

I don't know how you can be so patient with these guys.

  
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:20   

Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 06 2009,15:06)
Well, maybe we should start a thread for JAD to heap abuse on him too, I think he would Love It So.

Don't we have one already?

   
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:23   

Quote (bystander @ Jan. 06 2009,15:19)
I don't know how you can be so patient with these guys.

I'm a private tutor. Not a schoolteacher, but I know many teachers. One thing they tend to have is vast quantities of patience.

   
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:28   

Quote (bystander @ Jan. 06 2009,15:19)
"I don't need to calculate CSI because the value is obvious."

For every problem there is a solution which is simple, obvious, and wrong.

--Einstein

IDers are very good at finding, and committing to, such answers.

   
American Saddlebred



Posts: 111
Joined: May 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:29   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2009,14:20)
 
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 06 2009,15:06)
Well, maybe we should start a thread for JAD to heap abuse on him too, I think he would Love It So.

Don't we have one already?

I thought so too.  If I recall correctly, he was restricted to one thread...I'm having trouble finding a thread about him that exceeds 4 pages...perhaps he was restricted to the bathroom wall?

<edit> "Let the monkey rattle his cage."  That was associated with the JAD thread in some way.  Possibly as a subheading?

   
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:36   

Quote (American Saddlebred @ Jan. 06 2009,15:29)
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2009,14:20)
 
Quote (J-Dog @ Jan. 06 2009,15:06)
Well, maybe we should start a thread for JAD to heap abuse on him too, I think he would Love It So.

Don't we have one already?

I thought so too.  If I recall correctly, he was restricted to one thread...I'm having trouble finding a thread about him that exceeds 4 pages...perhaps he was restricted to the bathroom wall?

<edit> "Let the monkey rattle his cage."  That was associated with the JAD thread in some way.

No, we don't have any threads for him to debate here, he's one of the few who are banned. I think he spammed PT a thousand too many times or something. We have a few JAD-themed threads where we can talk about him, is all.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:36   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 06 2009,19:22)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,12:54)
My interpretation of Fuller is that he's an academic, and he sees what he's doing as an academic exercise.  So how this would play out in the real, political, world isn't so interesting to him.  He wants to show how ID an advance as a science.  Which is fine, and very funny to see how it's being resisted.

Then he's even dumber than I thought (despite his nationality). Everybody knows that nobody in the real ID "community" wants to have it "advance as a science". It's a culture war, and a sociologist should know that better than most of the UDiots!

Correct. One would expect a sociologist to know better. Hell, one would expect even a yoghurt to know better.

Your previous slurring of the entirety of the UK by false association with Fuller has now been compensated for. Your Evil Atheist Conspiracy* privileges** have now been reinstated.

Louis

* Which, of course, does not exist. Helicopters...black...your house...approaching...ignore them.

** May or may not involve the kicking of puppies and use of company jet. Cheaper mortgage rates and the flayed skins of christian babies for Ed Gein style lampshades also included....possibly.

--------------
Bye.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,14:55   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 06 2009,14:36)
Your previous slurring of the entirety of the UK by false association with Fuller has now been compensated for. Your Evil Atheist Conspiracy* privileges** have now been reinstated.

Hey now!  We just birthed and edumacated him.  You Brits gave him tenure.  He's yours now.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,15:06   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 06 2009,13:22)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,12:54)
My interpretation of Fuller is that he's an academic, and he sees what he's doing as an academic exercise.  So how this would play out in the real, political, world isn't so interesting to him.  He wants to show how ID an advance as a science.  Which is fine, and very funny to see how it's being resisted.

Then he's even dumber than I thought (despite his nationality). Everybody knows that nobody in the real ID "community" wants to have it "advance as a science". It's a culture war, and a sociologist should know that better than most of the UDiots!

Yeah, this is the bit I don't really understand either.  I can only guess that he's stuck too far up his ivory tower.

--------------
ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,15:37   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Jan. 06 2009,20:55)
Quote (Louis @ Jan. 06 2009,14:36)
Your previous slurring of the entirety of the UK by false association with Fuller has now been compensated for. Your Evil Atheist Conspiracy* privileges** have now been reinstated.

Hey now!  We just birthed and edumacated him.  You Brits gave him tenure.  He's yours now.

We don't have a tenure system in the UK.

Well it's not precisely not a tenure system, for example, we don't use the word "tenure"....

To be fair we did make him live in Warwick.* Surely that should count for something.

Anyway, he came over here of his own volition. What's the passport uptake rate in the USA? Like 2% or something ridiculous? You need a better screening process, it's your fault for letting him out.

Now enough comedy, I have work to do!

Louis

*Residents of Warwick, no offence meant...ok, some offence meant...ok, apart from the castle it's a shitehouse, get over it. Oh all right, it's not that bad...in fact I quite like it...I love it...it's great! Ahh Statler and Waldorf where would we be without you?**

**In better hotels for starters.

--------------
Bye.

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,15:43   

Quote (Louis @ Jan. 06 2009,13:37)
Anyway, he came over here of his own volition. What's the passport uptake rate in the USA? Like 2% or something ridiculous? You need a better screening process, it's your fault for letting him out.

This reminds me of a joke.

Q: Why are Austrians the cleverest people in Europe?

A: They convinced the whole world that Beethoven was Austrian and Hitler was German.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1950
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,16:07   

Quote (bystander @ Jan. 06 2009,12:15)
You would think that being a philosopher that he would be interested in the cultural underpinnings of the entire creationist movement.

I do find it hard to focus after a paragraph or two, but I think that Steve Fuller's message is changing as he thinks it through. I give it another few posts before he declares that ID is not science.

Interesting problem for Fuller, as he merely considers science as one of many equally valid "ways of knowing." This is because science is ultimately about language- how we describe things to one another.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2593
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,17:59   

Quote
dgosse: To spell the word “evolution,” obtaining the nine letters in order, each having a 1/26 probability, you have a probability of 1 in 5,429,503,678,976. This, as you will realize, comes from multiplying 26 by itself, using the figure 9 times. If every five seconds day and night a person drew out one letter, he could expect to succeed in spelling the word “evolution” about once in 800,000 years!
http://www.creationsafaris.com/epoi_c02.htm

But if you have a population of words that evolve, starting with the single-letter word "O", selecting for perfect spelling, then some nine-letter word or other will evolve in a tiny fraction of the time.

Beware a war of words
Ere you err.


--------------
There is only one Tard. The Tard is One.

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5374
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,18:35   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 06 2009,14:49)
Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2009,11:27)
found at ISCID Brainstorms:

   
Quote
DaveScot
Member
Member # 1545

Icon 1 posted 05. January 2009 12:10      Profile for DaveScot   Email DaveScot   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post  Dear John,

Uh huh. They (Myers, Elsberry, et al) fear you. You're very very scary.

Sign up for UD yourself. You won't last as long as you did when I was the moderator. They're less tolerant of assholes than I was.

[ 05. January 2009, 12:11: Message edited by: DaveScot ] IP: Logged

Oh come on, you HAVE to quote Javison's reply!

 
Quote
I have repeatedly tried to register at UD and I have asked both you and O'Leary to provide me with a user name and password. O'Leary refuses and you call me an "asshole." Thanks for remaining in perfect character by calling me an "asshole." It doesn't get any better than this.

Both you and O'Leary are scared to death of me and my sources as well. Why else would you prevent me from participating?

Don't try to respond to this message because you can't without making yourself look even worse than you already have, as if that were conceivable.

"A past evolution is undeniable, a present evolution undemonstrable."
John A. Davison

P.S. Now everybody knows what the A stands for.
You are beautiful Springer, just beautiful.

I love it so!


"Now everybody knows what the A stands for." Too cool!

Janie's been calling him Dohn Asswipe Javison for years.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,19:09   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,16:06)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 06 2009,13:22)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,12:54)
My interpretation of Fuller is that he's an academic, and he sees what he's doing as an academic exercise.  So how this would play out in the real, political, world isn't so interesting to him.  He wants to show how ID an advance as a science.  Which is fine, and very funny to see how it's being resisted.

Then he's even dumber than I thought (despite his nationality). Everybody knows that nobody in the real ID "community" wants to have it "advance as a science". It's a culture war, and a sociologist should know that better than most of the UDiots!

Yeah, this is the bit I don't really understand either.  I can only guess that he's stuck too far up his ivory tower.

I haven't read the Fuller stuff, just what you guys have written here. It sounds like he's telling them, you know, real talk about design--did the Incas make this? Is this tire from the Indianapolis factory? Did Bobby have the means to push Louis down those stairs? Is this the result of a CAD bug?--always necessarily involves having some details of a designer in chosing between hypotheses. Something somewhere did something sometime does not a scientific theory make. If that's what he's saying, he's quite right on that point. It's why the loud-and-proud creationists have published 9 issues of their 'research journal' since the Dover decision, and the ID creationists have published zero. Captain Mustard in the dining room with a chainsaw you can argue about. Something in the somewhere with a something is intellectually sterile.

The IDers are objecting strenuously to Fuller because they know they can't start talking about specifics of the designer without admitting this is just creationism. The whole point of ID is to hide the christian god under a pseudonym and try to sneak past the courts. It was a dumb, dumb idea, and it failed.

   
olegt



Posts: 1378
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,19:17   

StephenB tells Fuller: how can we know anything about the designer?      
Quote
For all I know, ID technology may someday go beyond the design inference and advance to a level that reflects a deeper understanding of the designer and his attributes. Indeed, some scientists have already concluded that, by simply observing God’s handiwork, we can infer not only his intelligence but also his wisdom. We have hints of that already. The Catholic Church, during its canonization process, calls on medical science to help determine whether seemingly miraculous healings attributed to the intervention of a saint are really miraculous. Still, I can’t imagine how ID could ever detect the designer’s identity unless the designer makes another guest appearance. His last visit did not go so well.

You just can't make this up!

--------------
If you are not:
Galapagos Finch
please Logout »

  
stevestory



Posts: 8824
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,19:43   

LOL. "Your honor, as chief forensics scientist, maybe someday forensics will advance to the point that I can identify the murderer, who by the way is Curt Johnson of 162 Blue Ridge rd, Cary, NC, but as for now, we just can't tell you who it is."

If there's some kind of Nobel Prize in Dumb, that comment would be the odd-on favorite.

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3545
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,19:52   

Quote
His last visit did not go so well.


That's true, assuming it gave us creationists.

Does this belong on FSTDT?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 986
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,21:38   

Shorter StephenB:  2000 years ago someone, somewhere died on a cross.  Won't someone invent something we can use to stand up for him?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
khan



Posts: 1479
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 06 2009,21:58   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 06 2009,20:09)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,16:06)
Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Jan. 06 2009,13:22)
 
Quote (Bob O'H @ Jan. 06 2009,12:54)
My interpretation of Fuller is that he's an academic, and he sees what he's doing as an academic exercise.  So how this would play out in the real, political, world isn't so interesting to him.  He wants to show how ID an advance as a science.  Which is fine, and very funny to see how it's being resisted.

Then he's even dumber than I thought (despite his nationality). Everybody knows that nobody in the real ID "community" wants to have it "advance as a science". It's a culture war, and a sociologist should know that better than most of the UDiots!

Yeah, this is the bit I don't really understand either.  I can only guess that he's stuck too far up his ivory tower.

I haven't read the Fuller stuff, just what you guys have written here. It sounds like he's telling them, you know, real talk about design--did the Incas make this? Is this tire from the Indianapolis factory? Did Bobby have the means to push Louis down those stairs? Is this the result of a CAD bug?--always necessarily involves having some details of a designer in chosing between hypotheses. Something somewhere did something sometime does not a scientific theory make. If that's what he's saying, he's quite right on that point. It's why the loud-and-proud creationists have published 9 issues of their 'research journal' since the Dover decision, and the ID creationists have published zero. Captain Mustard in the dining room with a chainsaw you can argue about. Something in the somewhere with a something is intellectually sterile.

The IDers are objecting strenuously to Fuller because they know they can't start talking about specifics of the designer without admitting this is just creationism. The whole point of ID is to hide the christian god under a pseudonym and try to sneak past the courts. It was a dumb, dumb idea, and it failed.

Given that Fuller is a philosopher/sociologist(?) posting to a tard pit
...
how many of the tards have any idea of the terms/ideas he is posting about?

I am having trouble following his thoughts and I have a bit of education in what he posts about.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1648
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2009,00:10   

Quote
(Queen Liz Voice) We sent the convicts and excessively religious to the colonies years ago for a reason. Cease and desist your returning of them forthwith, if not, indeed, fifthwith or I'll set the corgis on you and have Phillip made the Ambassador to the USA.


Centuries ago, England conducted a vast social experiment.  It sent all of its thieves, pickpockets and murderers to Australia and all of its surplus lawyers and religious whackadamia nuts to America.  

For over a century, the world's most prominent sociologists, criminologists and philosophers have examined the results and they have now come to a unanimous conclusion:

Australia had first choice.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.   Edward Feser

‘Anything is a “real possibility” in the mind of one seeking to deny the obvious.’ – William J Murray

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 212
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2009,01:16   

Dembski personality traits and priorities on display:

 
Quote
1

    P.S. I own intelligentevolution.org.


He forgot to say "FIRST!!!!!"

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

  
KCdgw



Posts: 367
Joined: Sep. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 07 2009,05:52   

An Englishman applying for a visa to Australia was asked if he had a criminal record. "My Goodness", he replied, "Is that still a requirement?"

KC

Edited by KCdgw on Jan. 07 2009,05:52

--------------
Those who know the truth are not equal to those who love it-- Confucius

  
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