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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
DiEb



Posts: 232
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,11:16   

FYI:
Quote

DiEb
February 27, 2012 at 10:30 am
Your comment is awaiting moderation.

     
Quote
That’s the spirit Died! Good for you.

Thanks, Darry!

     
Quote
Sadly, you are arguing at cross purposes with yourself. You assert Kant’s categorical imperative (in the original German no less; that certainly makes it sound more impressive). Then you advance a utilitarian consequentialist argument. The problem with this approach is that Kant developed the categorical imperative precisely in opposition to consquentialist arguments.  


Kant chided the utilitarians for being subjective, he had no problem with a consequentialist argument – as you may find out when you read the whole wiki-article.

     
Quote
So your utilitarian argument (i.e., it threatens society) fails to establish any sort of grounding for morality. Certainly it does not explain why we treat humans differently from apes. Finally, it assumes its conclusion. When you say rape “threatens” society that is just another way of saying rape is wrong, which is the very question to be determined in the first place.


Following the Categorical Imperative allows us to build a complex society, based on devision of labor. Acting against it is wrong.

     
Quote
This ,[i.e. the Categorical Imperative] is not quite the same as the Golden Rule, but it is pretty much the same concept. Certainly I agree that it is an excellent rule for moral behavior. Yet you have given me absolutely no reason, on materialist grounds, to follow it. Why should I follow the Golden Rule instead of the rule that says take whatever you want when you want it?


Indeed, the Golden Rule is only a part of the Categorical Imperative. Imagine the world in which everyone follows the rule take whatever you want when you want it. Would you like to live in it? I don’t think that you’ll find central heating in such a world, let alone message boards and blogs. So such a rule should not become a universal law.

     
Quote
And grounding us once again in the OP, you have not yet addressed the question of why a human should consider himself bound by the Golden Rule when we expect no such thing of a chimp. Please, please tell me Died; why does the 2% difference in genes make any moral difference at all, much less all the difference in the world?


That seems to be obvious: a chimp doesn’t understand the concepts mentioned above – like a small child (which has no difference in genes!). But a child may (and should be) educated to learn the consequences of its behavior. Would you argue that a six year old child which kills a man while playing with a shotgun should be treated like an adult?


   
DiEb



Posts: 232
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,11:22   

Joe G: insults aside - I don't see how the passage defines biological information or even biological specification. Could you give us a short definition (perhaps in your own words)? It should include
  • for which entities this information can be calculated - at least a few examples
  • how it can be calculated

If it is not possible to calculate biological information exactly (not unlike Kolmogorov complexity), perhaps the concept can at least be explained in more detail.

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,11:27   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 27 2012,11:24)
 
Quote (DiEb @ Feb. 27 2012,11:22)
Joe G: insults aside - I don't see how the passage defines biological information or even biological specification. Could you give us a short definition (perhaps in your own words)? It should include
  • for which entities this information can be calculated - at least a few examples
  • how it can be calculated

If it is not possible to calculate biological information exactly (not unlike Kolmogorov complexity), perhaps the concept can at least be explained in more detail.

What is it about those passages that you don't understand? Please be specific.

It's the bit you quote that's causing the trouble.

Here, let me help.

please define biological information and/or biological specification

Please create a list for which entities this information can be calculated - at least a few examples on how it can be calculated.

See, if you'd read the bit you quoted you'd have saved a post!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Joe G



Posts: 1384
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,11:30   

Biological information has been defined:

Quote  
Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. In virtue of their function, these systems embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them. Hence these systems are specified in the same sense required by the complexity-specification criterion (see sections 1.3 and 2.5). The specification of organisms can be crashed out in any number of ways. Arno Wouters cashes it out globally in terms of the viability of whole organisms. Michael Behe cashes it out in terms of minimal function of biochemical systems.- Wm. Dembski page 148 of NFL



In the preceding and proceeding paragraphs William Dembski makes it clear that biological specification is CSI- complex specified information.

In the paper "The origin of biological information and the higher taxonomic categories", Stephen C. Meyer wrote:

Quote
Dembski (2002) has used the term “complex specified information” (CSI) as a synonym for “specified complexity” to help distinguish functional biological information from mere Shannon information--that is, specified complexity from mere complexity. This review will use this term as well.


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Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t


BTW: Joe, our position (i.e. evolution) does NOT require that there existed a species of ape-humans with 47 chromosomes.-Kevin McCarthy, ignorant of genetics

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,11:32   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 27 2012,11:30)
Biological information has been defined:

Great. Now tell me how much "Biological information" is in a banana!

Is Biological information the same as CSI? If not, what's the difference?

Is it possible to have "biological information" but no CSI? Or CSI with no "biological information"?

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2121
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,11:40   

You gotta love the ID "Two prong" approach.

The William "Professor Irwin Corey" Dembski Prong: Make shit up, claim evolution can't do it; whine about conspiracy and persecution.

The Joe "Goon" Gallien Prong: "Bike racks, three o'clock!"



"I used to be disgusted, now I try to be amused." -- Elvis Costello.

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,12:07   

Joe G's little tantrum can be found on the BW.



Religious Vomit

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,12:49   

Another one bites the dust:

 
Quote
AletaFebruary 27, 2012 at 12:22 pm

Since you have deleted my post, and thus won’t allow any discussion that veers from the path that you dictate, I will withdraw my participation.

UD Editor: Since you refused to participate in good faith, your absence will be unlamented.


Boy...Barry really isn't into discussing anything. Is he actually POE seeking to shut UD down?

ETA: Oops...apartly Aleta has not been banninated. She's merely been told her posts that do not specifically answer Barry's strawman will be whisked away. Noting that his question is a strawman is not allowed.

Edited by Robin on Feb. 27 2012,13:34

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,12:54   

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 27 2012,12:49)
Another one bites the dust:

 
Quote
AletaFebruary 27, 2012 at 12:22 pm

Since you have deleted my post, and thus won’t allow any discussion that veers from the path that you dictate, I will withdraw my participation.

UD Editor: Since you refused to participate in good faith, your absence will be unlamented.


Boy...Barry really isn't into discussing anything. Is he actually POE seeking to shut UD down?

I love how they wont even but their own names on the posts. Shamefull.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,12:56   

Mike LaFontaine:

 
Quote
At the most basic level, it is wrong to compare humans with other animals. People are not apes. They have the unique capacity to interact with each other and consciously change their environment. Humans are not constrained by their genes in the same way as monkeys.


Ehh...I don't know about "wrong", but it's certainly ineffective and mostly erroneous. It boils down to two things:

1) Other animals do not live within the same kinds of societies as humans and don't enact the same kind of human societal structures, so holding them to our rules is erroneous.

2) We don't know the emotional/social states of animals in all situations, so there's no way to validly judge their behaviors in context.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
DiEb



Posts: 232
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,13:00   

@Joe G
 
Quote
Biological specification always refers to function. An organism is a functional system comprising many functional subsystems. In virtue of their function, these systems embody patterns that are objectively given and can be identified independently of the systems that embody them.


So, biological information (=specification) is not a function of the DNA,  but can be calculated for  functional (sub)systems.

So, how does the biological information of performing photosynthesis differ from digesting nylon ? Can they be calculated?

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,13:14   

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 27 2012,12:49)
Another one bites the dust:

 
Quote
AletaFebruary 27, 2012 at 12:22 pm

Since you have deleted my post, and thus won’t allow any discussion that veers from the path that you dictate, I will withdraw my participation.

UD Editor: Since you refused to participate in good faith, your absence will be unlamented.


Boy...Barry really isn't into discussing anything. Is he actually POE seeking to shut UD down?

Barry uses that tactic all the time. He wants to ask all the questions *and* dictate the permissible answers.  If someone has the temerity to answer the question honestly, but not within the strict set of "acceptable" answers, Barry throws a little hissy fit and bans the person.  He is like a petulant little child.  

Although most children grow out of the "you play the way I tell you to play or I'll take my toys and go home" phase by the age of 6.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,13:27   

fucking drunks

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
The whole truth



Posts: 981
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,15:05   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Feb. 27 2012,04:55)
Barry parenthetically added, on the rape thread, "or, like Jack, try to change the subject", but there is no Jack that has posted in the thread.  Any idea what this is about?  Did someone post and then get unposted???

This is a copy of the post that was deleted:

24
Jack Dumond
February 26, 2012 at 9:02 pm

Barry Arrington: "johnnyb, actually, I think I will stick with my chimp example. Over and over again we hear from Darwinists that chimps and humans share 98% of their genes. I think there are good reasons to doubt that factoid, but I am willing to assume it arguendo for purposes of this post. In fact, it actually serves my purpose. If a Darwinist agrees that the chimp is not morally culpable to force sex on an unwilling female but the human is, I want them to tell me what, exactly, in that 2% accounts for the different result.

To the Darwinists: This post has been up several hours. Are you unwilling — or just unable — to engage with us? Nick, I know you’ve been here while the post has been up. Why are you refusing to engage?"

Mr. Arrington, I’m not a Darwinist but I think it is strange that you would wonder why Darwinists are “refusing to engage” you when you recently banned most of the people whom you would describe as Darwinists and materialists.

Regarding your rape topic: The word rape is something that humans apply to humans who have non-consensual sex with another human, and statutory rape deals with sex with people who have not reached the age of consent. None of that applies to animals.

It’s not the genetic difference between chimps and humans that matters, regarding rape. It’s the culture of humans, which includes laws, that matters. Chimps are unaware of laws and their culture is not as sophisticated as that of humans. Some people ignore the unacceptability and illegality of rape within their culture and some cultures either condone rape or don’t find it very abhorrent. I really don’t see what point you’re trying to make except to demonize the people you refer to as Darwinists and materialists.

How do you feel about the following?

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

2 Samuel 12:11-14

Exodus 21:7-11

And what do you think of the rampant child rape within the Catholic Church, and of rape and other atrocities within other churches and religious groups?

I’m also curious as to what this topic has to do with science and ID?

From what I’ve read on this website it seems likely that I will be accused of being an amoral materialist, so I’ll inform you now that I am a Christian Pastor. I am intrigued by the concept of ID as a scientific concept and came here to learn more about it, but I am very disappointed by what I see here. I seriously doubt that you ID proponents will make any headway in advancing ID as a plausible scientific theory by preaching hypocritical fire and brimstone against people you see as enemies of your religion. It hurts me to see people who call themselves Christians behaving in such a non-Christian way and being so anxious to accuse others of amoral and illegal acts whether they are guilty of those acts or not. I will pray for you and ask The Lord to show you more forgiveness and mercy than you’re willing to give. I strongly suggest that all of you seek a Pastor who can help guide you toward a more positive, honest, and truly Christian life.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,15:10   

BUTTHURT FOR ARRINGTON.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Robin



Posts: 1430
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,15:18   

I must confess - I just don't see the difficulty that us "materialists" should be having with the question. It boils down to Barry assuming that materials must value all organism behavior as exactly the same based upon some human invented criteria. But if he acknowledges that humans can come up with arbitrary criteria for valuing human behavior, why wouldn't we be equally capable of coming up with different criteria for other organisms? Seems a no-brainer to me.

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we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,16:07   

barryfag:  who gives a fuck what you have to say?

so you want to justify screwing a chimp.  do you really think you can please a chimp?  i doubt you please yourself!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Tom A



Posts: 28
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,18:29   

Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 27 2012,15:05)
Quote (Jkrebs @ Feb. 27 2012,04:55)
Barry parenthetically added, on the rape thread, "or, like Jack, try to change the subject", but there is no Jack that has posted in the thread.  Any idea what this is about?  Did someone post and then get unposted???

This is a copy of the post that was deleted:

24
Jack Dumond
February 26, 2012 at 9:02 pm

Barry Arrington: "johnnyb, actually, I think I will stick with my chimp example. Over and over again we hear from Darwinists that chimps and humans share 98% of their genes. I think there are good reasons to doubt that factoid, but I am willing to assume it arguendo for purposes of this post. In fact, it actually serves my purpose. If a Darwinist agrees that the chimp is not morally culpable to force sex on an unwilling female but the human is, I want them to tell me what, exactly, in that 2% accounts for the different result.

To the Darwinists: This post has been up several hours. Are you unwilling — or just unable — to engage with us? Nick, I know you’ve been here while the post has been up. Why are you refusing to engage?"

Mr. Arrington, I’m not a Darwinist but I think it is strange that you would wonder why Darwinists are “refusing to engage” you when you recently banned most of the people whom you would describe as Darwinists and materialists.

Regarding your rape topic: The word rape is something that humans apply to humans who have non-consensual sex with another human, and statutory rape deals with sex with people who have not reached the age of consent. None of that applies to animals.

It’s not the genetic difference between chimps and humans that matters, regarding rape. It’s the culture of humans, which includes laws, that matters. Chimps are unaware of laws and their culture is not as sophisticated as that of humans. Some people ignore the unacceptability and illegality of rape within their culture and some cultures either condone rape or don’t find it very abhorrent. I really don’t see what point you’re trying to make except to demonize the people you refer to as Darwinists and materialists.

How do you feel about the following?

Deuteronomy 21:10-14

Deuteronomy 22:28-29

Deuteronomy 22:23-24

2 Samuel 12:11-14

Exodus 21:7-11

And what do you think of the rampant child rape within the Catholic Church, and of rape and other atrocities within other churches and religious groups?

I’m also curious as to what this topic has to do with science and ID?

From what I’ve read on this website it seems likely that I will be accused of being an amoral materialist, so I’ll inform you now that I am a Christian Pastor. I am intrigued by the concept of ID as a scientific concept and came here to learn more about it, but I am very disappointed by what I see here. I seriously doubt that you ID proponents will make any headway in advancing ID as a plausible scientific theory by preaching hypocritical fire and brimstone against people you see as enemies of your religion. It hurts me to see people who call themselves Christians behaving in such a non-Christian way and being so anxious to accuse others of amoral and illegal acts whether they are guilty of those acts or not. I will pray for you and ask The Lord to show you more forgiveness and mercy than you’re willing to give. I strongly suggest that all of you seek a Pastor who can help guide you toward a more positive, honest, and truly Christian life.

Very eloquent and to the point. No wonder it wasn't allowed to stand. The UD will be a wasteland if they keep this up.

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3558
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,18:44   

Barry Arrington:  pain is always bad. in fact bad is defined by pain.

Morality requires a brain that can learn abstract concepts regarding the cause of pain. For that reason, certain profoundly retarded or psychotic humans are give a pass on moral behavior.

Animals, as a general rule, are granted freedom to roam about to the extent that they are disinclined to inflict pain. This is based to some extent on our experience with species and to some extent on the behavior of individuals.

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
paragwinn



Posts: 381
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,19:17   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 27 2012,16:44)
Animals, as a general rule, are granted freedom to roam about to the extent that they are disinclined to inflict pain. This is based to some extent on our experience with species and to some extent on the behavior of individuals.

And to think we allow them to roam around naked! Those female chimps need to be taught to dress modestly or else they're just asking for it!

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All women build up a resistance [to male condescension]. Apparently, ID did not predict that. -Kristine 4-19-11
F/Ns to F/Ns to F/Ns etc. The whole thing is F/N ridiculous -Seversky on KF footnote fetish 8-20-11
The geological maps that realist use to make money are all surface maps. -forastero

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,21:04   

[quote=Bob O'H,Feb. 27 2012,07:15]
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 27 2012,08:48)
 
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 27 2012,08:32)

And I don't believe Cornell is near any of them. Church basements are also way cheaper.

Sandford is the Cornell link: he's a "Courtesy Associate Professor". This does not rule out the the symposium having been run in a church basement.

Shit, I was an "Associate Research Professor" when I was 28 yo.

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"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
sparc



Posts: 1697
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 27 2012,22:50   

Nick Matzke's take on the Springer story at the Pandasthumb.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
k.e..



Posts: 2883
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,06:14   

Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 28 2012,00:07)
barryfag:  who gives a fuck what you have to say?

so you want to justify screwing a chimp.  do you really think you can please a chimp?  i doubt you please yourself!

I'M SURE HE DOES, HOMO!


BUT HE NEVER CALLS OR WRITES....HISSELF...


I KILL ME SOMETIMES

TARD a log EX DEUS .....COURTESY DAVE tard SPRINGER

..and his evil twin k.e..

ETA fuck you barry

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
k.e..



Posts: 2883
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,06:15   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Feb. 28 2012,05:04)
[quote=Bob O'H,Feb. 27 2012,07:15]
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 27 2012,08:48)
   
Quote (Occam's Aftershave @ Feb. 27 2012,08:32)

And I don't believe Cornell is near any of them. Church basements are also way cheaper.

Sandford is the Cornell link: he's a "Courtesy Associate Professor". This does not rule out the the symposium having been run in a church basement.

Shit, I was an "Associate Research Professor" when I was 28 yo.

YEAH AND LOOK AT YOU NOW!

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
sparc



Posts: 1697
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,06:45   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 27 2012,10:56)
 
Quote (DiEb @ Feb. 27 2012,10:42)
That's the only description of the Cornell Symposium which I could find:

http://www.soulcare.org/gsinew_....ce.html

Hmm, I wonder who gave Presentation 2. And 5:
   
Quote
Session One May 31:  INFORMATION THEORY & BIOLOGY
Presentation 1 - Biological information: what is it?
Presentation 2 - A second look at the second law of thermodynamics
Presentation 3 - Biological information and thermodynamics
Presentation 4 - Multiple overlapping codes profoundly reduce the probability of beneficial mutation
Presentation 5 - A General theory of information cost incurred by successful search
Presentation 6 - Pragmatic information
Presentation 7 - Limits of chaos and progress in evolutionary dynamics
Presentation 8 - Tierra: the character of adaptation

Session Two June 1:  BIOLOGICAL INFORMATION & GENETIC THEORY
(Each presentation was followed by a time of Questions and Answers)
Presentation   9 - Not Junk after all: non-protein-coding DNA carries extensive biological information
Presentation 10 - Can biological information be sustained by purifying natural selection?
Presentation 11 - Selection threshold severely constrains capture of beneficial mutations
Presentation 12 - Computational evolution experiments reveal a net loss of  information despite selection
Presentation 13 - Using numerical simulation to test the "mutation-count" hypothesis
Presentation 14 - Can synergistic epistasis halt mutation accumulation?  Results from numerical simulation
Presentation 15 - Striking architectural similarities between higher genomes and computer executable code
Presentation 16 - Biocybernetics and biosemiosis
Presentation 17 - Computer-like systems in the cell

Session Three June 2:  THEORETICAL MOLECULAR BIOLOGY
(Each presentation was followed by a time of Questions and Answers)
Presentation 18 - Can genetic information be traced to a last universal common ancestor?
Presentation 19 - A new model of intracellular communication based on coherent, high-frequency vibrations in biomolecules
Presentation 20 - A multiplicity of memories: the semiotics of evolutionary adaptation
Presentation 21 - The cost of substitution during concurrent substitutions and the Absent-Optimal Effect
Presentation 22 - The membrane code: a carrier of essential information that is not specified by DNA and is inherited apart from it
Presentation 23 - Measuring and analyzing functional information in proteins
Presentation 24 - Getting there first: an evolutionary rate advantage for adaptive loss-of-function mutations

my guess
Presentation 2: Granville Sewell
Presentation 5: William Dembski
Presentation 9: Phillip Johnson
Presentation 19: Paul Nelson
Presentation 23: Douglas Axe

Here's the challenge: Who can do better?

Deadline March 30, 2012.

Edited by sparc on Feb. 28 2012,06:46

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
k.e..



Posts: 2883
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,08:05   

Quote (sparc @ Feb. 28 2012,14:45)
 
Quote (Bob O'H @ Feb. 27 2012,10:56)
     
Quote (DiEb @ Feb. 27 2012,10:42)
That's the only description of the Cornell Symposium which I could find:

http://www.soulcare.org/gsinew_....ce.html

Hmm, I wonder who gave Presentation 2. And 5:
     
Quote
Session One May 31:  INFORMATION THEORY & BIOLOGY
Presentation 1 - Biological information: what is it?
Presentation 2 - A second look at the second law of thermodynamics
Presentation 3 - Biological information and thermodynamics
Presentation 4 - Multiple overlapping codes profoundly reduce the probability of beneficial mutation
Presentation 5 - A General theory of information cost incurred by successful search
Presentation 6 - Pragmatic information
Presentation 7 - Limits of chaos and progress in evolutionary dynamics
Presentation 8 - Tierra: the character of adaptation

Session Two June 1:  BIOLOGICAL INFORMATION & GENETIC THEORY
(Each presentation was followed by a time of Questions and Answers)
Presentation   9 - Not Junk after all: non-protein-coding DNA carries extensive biological information
Presentation 10 - Can biological information be sustained by purifying natural selection?
Presentation 11 - Selection threshold severely constrains capture of beneficial mutations
Presentation 12 - Computational evolution experiments reveal a net loss of  information despite selection
Presentation 13 - Using numerical simulation to test the "mutation-count" hypothesis
Presentation 14 - Can synergistic epistasis halt mutation accumulation?  Results from numerical simulation
Presentation 15 - Striking architectural similarities between higher genomes and computer executable code
Presentation 16 - Biocybernetics and biosemiosis
Presentation 17 - Computer-like systems in the cell

Session Three June 2:  THEORETICAL MOLECULAR BIOLOGY
(Each presentation was followed by a time of Questions and Answers)
Presentation 18 - Can genetic information be traced to a last universal common ancestor?
Presentation 19 - A new model of intracellular communication based on coherent, high-frequency vibrations in biomolecules
Presentation 20 - A multiplicity of memories: the semiotics of evolutionary adaptation
Presentation 21 - The cost of substitution during concurrent substitutions and the Absent-Optimal Effect
Presentation 22 - The membrane code: a carrier of essential information that is not specified by DNA and is inherited apart from it
Presentation 23 - Measuring and analyzing functional information in proteins
Presentation 24 - Getting there first: an evolutionary rate advantage for adaptive loss-of-function mutations

my guess
Presentation 2: Granville Sewell
Presentation 5: William Dembski
Presentation 9: Phillip Johnson
Presentation 19: Paul Nelson
Presentation 23: Douglas Axe

Here's the challenge: Who can do better?

Deadline March 30, 2012.

...um 1. Air Force dave moar than a CXhurchil speech is noise.

2. (TWO) well that's a bit obvious HOMO! What about Newton!!!!!

3. VJT

6. Prag? FUCKING WAT? HOMO! don't u mean a new parajim JIM??????

Bueller ??? anyone?

7. Limits ..taht;s easy Dr DR  Bernstein who only hates himself

8. KF a character who can't adapt

10. HUH? Bill ru s?rious dirty angels who'd 'a thought?

11. um... sheep farming nevr what it used to be. Jesus 'effing K

12. Gill it's up to you now to save teh crew jump! man jump!

13. WHEW! ....We'll phone a friend now. Lizzie?

14. actually no.

15. Gill now is teh chance to show your frill...Bill is hoping you can keep your wits.

16 Calling Jean-Paul Sartre & Jaques Deirdre we need some semiotics NOW

17. yeah whatever homo

18 ...um.... yeah what fucking planet are you on dickhead?

20 .....see16

21 huh ...No Free lunch again eh Bill? I suggest vallium to kill teh pain

22 ?is that so.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,08:15   

that sounds like the lamest conference EVAR.  casey and sal making out to an empty room while three or four sunday school teacher stuffed suits shout down echoes

i bet craigslist was OFF THE HOOK that week!

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
k.e..



Posts: 2883
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,08:20   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 28 2012,16:15)
that sounds like the lamest conference EVAR.  casey and sal making out to an empty room while three or four sunday school teacher stuffed suits shout down echoes

i bet craigslist was OFF THE HOOK that week!

They held a vote in Smallville, they want their idiots back.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
George



Posts: 312
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,08:52   

Barry outs himself as the biggest hypocrite on the planet by complaining about vanishing posts on another blog.  I'm gobsmacked.  Really.  I had no idea anyone could lack self-awareness completely and utterly.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10116
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 28 2012,08:55   

Quote (George @ Feb. 28 2012,08:52)
Barry outs himself as the biggest hypocrite on the planet by complaining about vanishing posts on another blog.  I'm gobsmacked.  Really.  I had no idea anyone could lack self-awareness completely and utterly.

Barry's having a bad month.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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