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  Topic: Feminism, Discussion on feminism and concepts< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,10:23   

Quote (Louis @ Nov. 04 2011,09:42)
* Where's the foetus going to gestate? In a box?

In the Jesus shaped hole in your soul.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,10:32   

Quote (Louis @ Nov. 04 2011,09:42)
Answer me this, since the claim that men and women are possessed of equal traits (i.e. equality of type) is such an obviously untrue claim, men can't have babies for example, why even attribute it to feminism?

And I suppose this is one of the questions that really interests me in any discussion about feminism: why these objections?

I don't mean to pick on you personally Robin, or anyone here for that matter, but I am genuinely interested in the objections to feminism that have arisen in just one page of this thread.

Why am I interested, well before Carlson has hysterics and accuses me of wanting to call everyone misogynists, I'll tell you: Because they were/are exactly the same objections I had. They were/are MY knee jerk objections. So I'm not being sanctimonious, I'm being selfish! Biiig difference! Hee hee.

Why do we...well okay to be strict I'm not sure anyone but me has/had them...why did/do I have these very simplistic, actually quite hostile objections to a straw feminism that is contradicted by a quick read of what is actually there?

If I'm coming across as mean, I apologise for that is not my intention. I'm genuinely curious as to why this subject causes suspiciously simplistic objections from intelligent people. Me included. I think it's possibly an important hurdle to discussion on the topic. Perhaps if we can understand this we'll understand other things. I guess I just don't know. Indulge me this navel gaze.

I'm not saying this is the case here for anyone, even me perhaps, but I'll make an analogy. Look at Forastero on the other thread. He chucks out technical sounding claims but it is abundantly clear his objections are not technical or intellectual, they are ideological or personal. The form those objections take is dressed in pseudo-intellectual garb to pass superficial scrutiny. Semantic or philosophical quibbles can be innocent and valuable, but they aren't always. Complaints about exclusion can be true, but they aren't always. Painting with a broad brush can represent reality, but it doesn't always. All together with a few other things....well that rings alarm bells. That's rarely an innocent combination. It instantly makes me think of my post signature. If and when I catch myself doing these things I try to think about how I am fooling myself. So given that the objections I've had are identical to the objections raised here by yourself and others, how, if this is the case, am I/have I been fooling myself and why?

Is it clear what I'm trying to do with this?

Louis

* Where's the foetus going to gestate? In a box?

First, a clarification - I didn't say anything about objecting to feminism. I said I dislike using the term equality in that context. It's a semantic thing with me, nothing more.

I fully agree that women and men should be treated as having the same type of brains and thought capability all other characteristics being neutral and/or unknown. That is to say that two qualified (on paper) candidates for a job, one a man and one a woman, should both be given the same exactly level of consideration based on the job qualifications and requirements and not initially evaluated as one having a penis and one having a vagina (unless the job calls for one or the other of course).

When I noted the assumption of attributes for one category over the other, I was thinking about things like assuming that the category "women" includes the attribute of "emotional". I think that is a false assumption and that assuming such about "all women" as a category falls under the category of sexism and I disagree in principle with that thinking. This isn't to say I'm not guilty of sexism in other ways; I'm sure I'm ignorant and assume things about people based on their sex that just are not true. But in principle I try not to evaluate people based on sex.

So in answer to your question, I wasn't trying to attribute equality of traits to feminism specifically - it's just that based on some things I've read the concept of what constitutes "equality" isn't equal.


* It's symbolic of his struggle against reality.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,10:42   

This entry from Wiki rather sums up my issue with the term equality:

Quote
"Feminism makes claims for a rebalancing between women and men of the social, economic, and political power within a given society, on behalf of both sexes in the name of their common humanity, but with respect for their differences."[32] When feminism and related words began being widely used in the 1890s in Europe and the Western Hemisphere and continuing into modern times, the terms' relationship to equality was often unclear. "Then, as now, many parties used the terms polemically, as epithets, rather than analytically; then, as now, the words were not used by everyone to mean the same thing. And, as the study of their history reveals, they referred far more often to the 'rights of women' than to 'rights equal to those of men.' This is a subtle but profound distinction. Even then the vocabulary of feminism connoted a far broader sociopolitical critique, a critique that was woman-centered and woman-celebratory in its onslaught on male privilege."[33]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....quality

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,10:43   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Nov. 04 2011,15:08)
I can only morn that the poor quality of tard at UD has left you all with too much time on your hands.

Ah but this could bring real disagreement. And who doesn't want that?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,10:43   

Robin,

Bugger, was I wrong again? Twice in one lifetime. This is becoming a habit.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,11:43   

BTW, does adhering to the principles of feminism mean I have to objectify both men and women equally. Because I really don't want to do that.

Oh wait...nevermind...



:p

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2080
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,13:03   

An acquaintance in a former circle had a male->female sex change. I was only around for hir preliminary "testing of the waters" (nails, hair, etc.), but it really brought home to me how differently I respond to men and women, generally speaking.  Yes, we are all individuals (they all shouted together), and individuals'  interactions are all unique, but I think there is a certain common experience history in growing up boy or growing up girl.  Kind of like growing up straight or gay, city mouse or country mouse, and so on...

Talking about the nebulous concept of equality is an interesting excersize, I suppose, but what specific concrete pragmatic and so on examples can one point to?

Like I said, I think I'm coming from "Of course we're all equal, aren't we past that yet?", but I may be deluding myself.

eta this book: http://www.amazon.ca/Debatin....5313845 gets 5 fnkstars for balance and thoughtful discussion; contributions range from McKinnon to pornfem Lisa Palac.

Bought it, read it, lent it, lost it. :-(  From now on I'm putting RFID's in all my books.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,13:41   

Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 04 2011,13:03)
Talking about the nebulous concept of equality is an interesting excersize, I suppose, but what specific concrete pragmatic and so on examples can one point to?

Like I said, I think I'm coming from "Of course we're all equal, aren't we past that yet?", but I may be deluding myself.

Here' an example of why I have difficulty with the term "equal".

When Dan O'bannon wrote the script for Alien, he envisioned the role of Lt. Ripley being played by a man. He explicitly wrote scenes with Ripley as a man in mind (most of which were cut). However, he also explicitly didn't give any characters first names in his script feeling that it was important that the sex of the character make no difference from a casting perspective. However, since the implied premise of the alien's life cycle is one of rape and since the Ripley overcomes such a violent force and situation was such a powerful message, Ridley Scott felt that Ripley should be a woman. Interestingly, Scott not only scripted and filmed a sex scene to give Weaver's Ripley more femininity, his first ending had Ripley killed. The movie ran too long to keep the sex scene and test audiences hated the bleak ending with no survivors.

The long and short of it is, Ripley as a man would not equal Ripley as a woman. It is a completely different situation/story just by changing the sex of the main character. Would it still be a good story? Sure. Would it be equivalent? Probably. Would it would not be equal? No.

Just sayin'...

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,20:00   

Quote (Dr.GH @ Nov. 04 2011,10:08)
I can only morn that the poor quality of tard at UD has left you all with too much time on your hands.

Not me! I just walked up to a guy bigger than me at my library and told him to

1) not to have more than two people at a computer (our policy)
2) not to use the words (which he subsequently proclaimed) "I'm going to kick her white cracker ass" in my library
3) that I was sorry that I touched him (yes, I pulled away his earphone from his ear when he refused to acknowledge me when I whirled upon my heel after hearing the "kick white cracker ass" comment) but that this was his first warning and that we don't use that language in our library.

He said he was leaving, and he left. His friends later roughoused and laughed at me as they left, but I just fixed them with a stare.

Power is complicated. He was a man and much bigger than me. But he was not white and I am. He was not in a position of authority, and I am. Plus, when I went back to the desk and told other staff what happened, I announced, "I wonder if people know I can look up their names and records from their computer reservations?" and did so. Yes, his friends turned and looked at me when I did that, and yes, I wrote down their names (I usually greet assholes pleasantly by name the next time I see them in the library), and yes, I told staff that I had no problem using a little fear with patrons who roughouse, raise their voices, use profanity, and especially threaten the librarian, which happened to me.

Was this sexual harassment? You're darn tootin'! My point is, feminism seems to have turned into wringing one's hands. I don't have time for that. It does not help me.

I have a job to do. Feminism should help me to do that. If it does not, then screw it - I'm calling myself "liberated" from now on.

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 04 2011,23:16   

Quote (Robin @ Nov. 03 2011,12:03)
   
Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 03 2011,13:49)
     
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Nov. 03 2011,13:42)
Apologies if that makes me look like I think only women can be experts on Feminism, but that would at least limit the risk to attract "faux-feminists"...

No worries. We need more chickadees around here anyways.

GOD NO!

Chickadees happen to be one of the most territorial passerine species and some of the most violent birds! Couldn't we attract some...say...turtle doves?

(/nerd off)

Either one is better than a bunch of old cockatoos and turkeys.

 Present company excepted, of course

ETA: and loons!  Can't forget the loons.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2011,12:53   

Offered with no further comment.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2080
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2011,02:03   

Quote (Louis @ Nov. 05 2011,10:53)
Offered with no further comment.

Louis

and immediately below on that very page:
 
Quote

More in Commentators »
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--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2011,11:09   

And NOW we know why Our Very Own Dear Louis just luuuurvs PZ's gang sooooo much!  Turncoat bastard!*

Molly Award

*congrats**

** you wanker

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2011,11:44   

Quote (Wolfhound @ Nov. 06 2011,17:09)
And NOW we know why Our Very Own Dear Louis just luuuurvs PZ's gang sooooo much!  Turncoat bastard!*

Molly Award

*congrats**

** you wanker

I'm sure glad we don't practice guilt by association around here.

Congrats, Louis!*





*You jerk-off!



:p

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2011,15:24   

Quote (Wolfhound @ Nov. 06 2011,16:09)
And NOW we know why Our Very Own Dear Louis just luuuurvs PZ's gang sooooo much!  Turncoat bastard!*

Molly Award

*congrats**

** you wanker

Heyyyyyy baby, don't worry baby, there's room for more than one blog/forum in my heart*. She's got nothing on you baby, it's a one time thing.

Not sure how I got that to be honest. Bit of a shock. But I don't luuuurve PZ et al soooo much, I just don't hate them. I lurve some of them, just like I lurve some of you.

Louis

*Not much, it's a cold and blackened thing.

ETA: I won't be wearing my OM, it changes nothing. I will still take the piss and agree/disagree as is my want.

--------------
Bye.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2011,21:28   

If a Molly Award is the miniskirt of the internet, then Louis owes us all a shimmy in drag. :)

Call it gender reparations. Just don't horn in on my Ann Miller act, you show-off you.

BURN HIM HE'S A WITCH! And thus I pass the (sequined) mantel.

And behave yourself in my frakkin' library! :D

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2011,03:02   

1) OH NOES I AM TEH WITCH! DON'T BURN ME , BRO!

2) Will Drag-Shimmy at earliest opportunity.

3) Behave in your library? Ma'am yes, ma'am!

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2011,08:50   

Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 04 2011,23:16)
Quote (Robin @ Nov. 03 2011,12:03)
   
Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 03 2011,13:49)
       
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Nov. 03 2011,13:42)
Apologies if that makes me look like I think only women can be experts on Feminism, but that would at least limit the risk to attract "faux-feminists"...

No worries. We need more chickadees around here anyways.

GOD NO!

Chickadees happen to be one of the most territorial passerine species and some of the most violent birds! Couldn't we attract some...say...turtle doves?

(/nerd off)

Either one is better than a bunch of old cockatoos and turkeys.

 Present company excepted, of course

ETA: and loons!  Can't forget the loons.

How 'bout boobies?









Oh c'mon! Blue Footed!! This is a classy thread people!

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 07 2011,08:54   

Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 06 2011,21:28)
If a Molly Award is the miniskirt of the internet, then Louis owes us all a shimmy in drag. :)

Call it gender reparations. Just don't horn in on my Ann Miller act, you show-off you.

BURN HIM HE'S A WITCH! And thus I pass the (sequined) mantel.

And behave yourself in my frakkin' library! :D

Heh heh! She said "horn"! Heh heh...



(/butthead)

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 10 2011,16:24   

Wow. *thumbs up*

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Robin



Posts: 1427
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 11 2011,12:59   

So this is just stunning to me.

--------------
we IDists rule in design for the flagellum and cilium largely because they do look designed.  Bilbo

The only reason you reject Thor is because, like a cushion, you bear the imprint of the biggest arse that sat on you. Louis

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10064
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 11 2011,13:53   

ALRIGHT SHUT UP AND LISTEN COS I'M TALKING. I'M HEAR TWO TRIVIALIZE YOUR SENSATIVE ISSUE.

SRSLSY, WAHT IS RONG WITH IT?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2080
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 13 2011,12:59   

Chicks, man. Go figure.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,16:16   

For this "right," suffragettes marched. And I don't think this was meant as Spinal Tapesque satire. :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2080
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 14 2011,17:07   

Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 14 2011,14:16)
For this "right," suffragettes marched. And I don't think this was meant as Spinal Tapesque satire. :p

Well it's nice to know there are no gender barriers to insipid fluff reporting.

You're AmusedChild, aren't you.

Anyway it was probably a weather balloon reflecting swampgas from Venus. (FLASH)

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2011,12:51   

Quote (fnxtr @ Nov. 14 2011,17:07)
Quote (Kristine @ Nov. 14 2011,14:16)
For this "right," suffragettes marched. And I don't think this was meant as Spinal Tapesque satire. :p

Well it's nice to know there are no gender barriers to insipid fluff reporting.

You're AmusedChild, aren't you.

Anyway it was probably a weather balloon reflecting swampgas from Venus. (FLASH)

Funny thing - I get taken for a guy on YouTube all the time. :p

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 15 2011,13:00   

So who is more bashful, men or women? :D

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
sledgehammer



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 16 2011,01:02   

Quote (Robin @ Nov. 07 2011,06:50)
 
Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 04 2011,23:16)
   
Quote (Robin @ Nov. 03 2011,12:03)
       
Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 03 2011,13:49)
           
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Nov. 03 2011,13:42)
Apologies if that makes me look like I think only women can be experts on Feminism, but that would at least limit the risk to attract "faux-feminists"...

No worries. We need more chickadees around here anyways.

GOD NO!

Chickadees happen to be one of the most territorial passerine species and some of the most violent birds! Couldn't we attract some...say...turtle doves?

(/nerd off)

Either one is better than a bunch of old cockatoos and turkeys.

 Present company excepted, of course

ETA: and loons!  Can't forget the loons.

How 'bout boobies?




Oh c'mon! Blue Footed!! This is a classy thread people!


Boobies! Yes! Of course!

Boobies are good, blue-footed or tan-lined.

Old coots favor boobies.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
Schroedinger's Dog



Posts: 1691
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 16 2011,02:57   

Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 16 2011,07:02)
Quote (Robin @ Nov. 07 2011,06:50)
   
Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 04 2011,23:16)
   
Quote (Robin @ Nov. 03 2011,12:03)
         
Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 03 2011,13:49)
           
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Nov. 03 2011,13:42)
Apologies if that makes me look like I think only women can be experts on Feminism, but that would at least limit the risk to attract "faux-feminists"...

No worries. We need more chickadees around here anyways.

GOD NO!

Chickadees happen to be one of the most territorial passerine species and some of the most violent birds! Couldn't we attract some...say...turtle doves?

(/nerd off)

Either one is better than a bunch of old cockatoos and turkeys.

 Present company excepted, of course

ETA: and loons!  Can't forget the loons.

How 'bout boobies?




Oh c'mon! Blue Footed!! This is a classy thread people!


Boobies! Yes! Of course!

Boobies are good, blue-footed or tan-lined.

Old coots favor boobies.

I once saw this couple of Great Tits.

One had a worm in its beak to feed its newly hatched youngs.

--------------
"Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G

"I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis

"The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

   
sledgehammer



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 16 2011,08:37   

Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Nov. 16 2011,00:57)
Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 16 2011,07:02)
Quote (Robin @ Nov. 07 2011,06:50)
   
Quote (sledgehammer @ Nov. 04 2011,23:16)
     
Quote (Robin @ Nov. 03 2011,12:03)
         
Quote (carlsonjok @ Nov. 03 2011,13:49)
             
Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Nov. 03 2011,13:42)
Apologies if that makes me look like I think only women can be experts on Feminism, but that would at least limit the risk to attract "faux-feminists"...

No worries. We need more chickadees around here anyways.

GOD NO!

Chickadees happen to be one of the most territorial passerine species and some of the most violent birds! Couldn't we attract some...say...turtle doves?

(/nerd off)

Either one is better than a bunch of old cockatoos and turkeys.

 Present company excepted, of course

ETA: and loons!  Can't forget the loons.

How 'bout boobies?




Oh c'mon! Blue Footed!! This is a classy thread people!


Boobies! Yes! Of course!

Boobies are good, blue-footed or tan-lined.

Old coots favor boobies.

I once saw this couple of Great Tits.

One had a worm in its beak to feed its newly hatched youngs.

I'm heron ya! I'll quit tit now.
Nevermore, quoth the raven.
Gulls just wanna have fun.

--------------
The majority of the stupid is invincible and guaranteed for all time. The terror of their tyranny is alleviated by their lack of consistency. -A. Einstein  (H/T, JAD)
If evolution is true, you could not know that it's true because your brain is nothing but chemicals. ?Think about that. -K. Hovind

  
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