Joined: Jan. 2006
Many people, myself included, have delicately requested our reemergent contributor Avocationist to please discuss his/her ID ideas etc in a thread seperate from the LUCA/UD/etc threads.
To that noble end, I humbly invite Avocationist to educate we humble few in this dedicated thread.
Avocationist I thank you for your contributions in advance. Some cut and pasted remarks are included below. We can discuss the postive evidence that Avocationist has for ID, or the banning of Dave Springer, or indeed the religious foundations of ID (or not), or even fundamentalism at ATBC as we wish. Avocationist the
flaw* floor is yours
*ADDED IN EDIT: Oops, Freud, you naughty boy!
All quotes from Avocationist.
|So on that note, I'm curious as to why Dave Scot got banned from here?|
|Who is supposed to have written the Wedge, and for whom?|
I really can't know that the author meant by traditional doctrines of creation. That God created the world I think all Christians should believe. But that it might have been a long and natural process they can also believe. But not naturalistic in the sense often meant here, as in no intentional input. My guess is that they want the churches to stop wimping out and assess the situation a little better. It appears that a lot of nonfundie churches go along with Darwinist teachings without looking too hard. In school, kids are taught that there is no purpose to evolution. That really isn't compatible with theism. Even Miller believes the universe was designed by God, he just thinks that complex system could evolve by unguided processes. So in that sense, there is a divide between his understanding of evolution, and Dawkins'.
|You know, Lenny, I understand that this thread is generally lighthearted and dedicated for the abuse of of UD, so it's true that this ought to be moved, but you are proving yourself to be a bear of very little brain, and one dedicated to gratuitous belligerance as well. |
Obviously, to you, any religious person is a fundamentalist. Whereas, I fear fundamentalists, and I got news for you - you are one.
|I believe you mistook my meaning. So I'll clear it up. I meant that I agreed there is a strong streak of fundamentalism at UD, but I also see it here|
|In my opinion, nothing. In my opinion, God is everything, so there is no process or for that matter, material, separate from God. But generally, people have the idea that matter is something separate from God. So God set up a system, and it's running along on its own, or mostly on its own. Like you might wind up a top and let it go on the floor. But the evolution of life just doesn't look like something that could happen on its own. On the other hand, getting to the point where you have matter, a universe, organization into galaxies and planets, and various laws of nature such that there is a planet with weather, also does not look too probable. Your question is about like asking whether a mouse can scratch his ear without the assist of God.|
|I mean, your questions are just absolutely trite. Why bother to eat? Why not just pray for sustenance? And of course there are emotional/spiritual components to disease causation|
|Aren't you ashamed to provide this level of discourse? |
You've made a lot of ass-umptions. I'm barely tolerated at UD. Is your position really so weak that you have to paint everyone with the same brush? Some ID people are fundies, some are religious but nonfundies, and some are not categorizable.
Your refutation of the Wedge document disclaimer was filled with fear and paranoia. Some of the things they said and do say I agree with. There is no humanity without a metaphysical worldview. Right now, the atheists have got the floor. I agree with the DI that the purposeless worldview being taught is depressing and disheartening to humanity. I also don't think it's true. I don't know whether it might backfire if the Christians got their way, but I don't see why it should. Our country was freer in the last century than it is now and Christianity was not particularly oppressive. What I see coming, a totalitarian regime, will be by the corporate elite, not the fundies, although they will use the fundies.
There are a lot of fundie elements in our society, and they absolutely should be kept in check. There are Christians who want to implement Old Testament Biblical law. But I really, really don't see that as happening.
When I see all the fear and loathing in your arguments, it makes me skeptical that you can evaluate for truth. Fear is a decreaser of consciousness and reason.
And so on and so forth.