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  Topic: Proceedings of the AtBC Society of Seattle, As peer-reviewed as Darwin's Black Box< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,10:48   

Last night, several of the Seattle-based regulars of AtBC met at the 74th Street Ale House to discuss the topics of the day and get to know one another.

In attendance: clamboy, argystokes, Steviepinhead, JohnW and snoeman

Not in attendance: Tards.

Some personal trivia:

-> The group was fairly diverse in ages, ranging from (I estimate) those in their 20s to those in their 50s
-> Several professions were represented, including: A grad student in the biological sciences, an R&D analyst, a biostatistician, a trial lawyer and a sign-language interpreter
-> We come from many different places: a native Seattleite, the UK, Georgia, Massachusetts and one other place that escapes me at the moment...
-> One of us is a "Motorhead" fan
-> One of us had a baseball cap, whose brim had been curled into a nearly perfect cylinder
-> At least two of us were atheists, at least one of us is agnostic and the remaining two are undetermined.  (The atheists tried to hide the horns coming out the tops of their heads, but it was no use.)*    :D

The topics ranged over history, some politics, religion, science and - oh yeah - antievolution.  Each of us got involved in the topic at different points in time: a couple of us during KvD and others stumbling over it a few years ago in the course of researching other things.  One of us has been a veteran reader of Talk.origins since at least 1996.

Some conclusions we reached:

-> All of us are thankful for the people that consistently read UD and post the best of the Tard; none of us could stomach it on our own
-> The AFDave thread was valuable to expose a lot of lurkers to a free education in scientific areas of which they may not have been aware, and in contrast, show an example of the utter dishonesty with which creationists such as AFDave conduct themselves
-> None of us would go up in a plane piloted by AFDave
-> We agreed that characterizing the DI as a society of "professional liars" was most apt
-> We almost felt sorry for Dembski and how far he's fallen.

One thing that I don't believe we resolved was on the nature of the intellectual dishonesty of creationists.  Is it possible for someone who believes in the literal truth of the bible to accept the fact that there is an unresolvable disconnect between that belief and the evidence we observe in the world? That they can accept that they may not find out why there is a disconnect until they meet their god? Or, are their beliefs so strong (or are they so fearful) that they must resort to dishonesty and fabrication to discredit that science-based knowledge which they believe threatens them?

If I've forgotten anything, please feel free to add on or make corrections.  In any case, I know I enjoyed meeting everyone, and would enjoy doing it again.


* Some fundie will take that seriously and go, "Horns?? I knew it!"

  
ck1



Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,12:15   

And all male.  Anyone know the gender breakdown of regulars/readers of ATBC?

  
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,18:30   

Don't know about the gender breakdown, generally.

If there are any female AtBC'ers in the Seattle area, they are, of course, certainly welcome to join us. †Aside from a good deal of snickering at AFDave and the like, we were pretty restrained, overall.

Clayman arrived a little late, as he had helped a friend move for most of the day. †I stayed a little late, as I was in the process of pigging down a pitcher and a pint of cider. †After the others left, clayman and I talked about trying to arrange some scrambly hikes in the Teanaway River area, in the Cascade range to the east of the crest (over Snoqualmie Pass via I-90) and north of the little burg of Cle Elum. †This is several hours closer, but has some of the same amenities as his favorite hiking area, the Pasayten, in the NE part of the Cascades up near the border.

Argystokes intelligently refused to allow me--the well-inebriated cider hog that I was--to drive him anywhere--he had bussed and walked quite a ways to get to the 74th.

I managed to get myself home without incident and had to pound the guitar for a while to burn off some of the excess alcohol. †Good thing it was a non-week night, and I could sleep off the rest of the excess this morning!

That was fun! †We'll definitely have to do it again.

Edit: I would be remiss not to thank snoeman for his willingness to serve as "secretary" for our gathering, and for his detailed report of the proceedings, above.

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 21 2007,19:16   

Quote
After the others left, clayman and I talked about trying to arrange some scrambly hikes in the Teanaway River area, in the Cascade range to the east of the crest (over Snoqualmie Pass via I-90) and north of the little burg of Cle Elum.  This is several hours closer, but has some of the same amenities as his favorite hiking area, the Pasayten, in the NE part of the Cascades up near the border.

I went on a snowshoeing trip at Teanaway a couple years ago with the UW Wildlife Society, with the intentions of perhaps following some cougar tracks around with some professional trackers. We were surprised and delighted when we began our little tracking excursion, as one of the trackers announced they'd treed a cougar and we could watch them take it down and microchip it. Definitely one of the cooler experiences in my life...


--------------
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,00:05   

Quote (ck1 @ Jan. 21 2007,12:15)
And all male. †Anyone know the gender breakdown of regulars/readers of ATBC?

Arden in male on Tuesdays and Wednesdays, hermaphrodite Thursdays through Saturday and all woman Sunday and Monday.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Renier



Posts: 276
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,00:47   

*turns nasty acid green*....

Sounds like you guys had great fun!

  
Russell



Posts: 1082
Joined: April 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,17:43   

What were the beverage preferences of the Seattle Five?

--------------
Must... not... scratch... mosquito bite.

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,17:51   

Hey, I'll be in Seattle in 8(?) weeks, or something like that.  If the Seattle AtBC meetings continue, I would love to attend one.  I'll pay my dues (and buy beer).  As an added bonus, I will have met DaveScot by then and will be happy to share.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,18:05   

Quote (blipey @ Jan. 22 2007,17:51)
As an added bonus, I will have met DaveScot by then and will be happy to share.

Assuming you both survive.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,19:34   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 22 2007,18:05)
Quote (blipey @ Jan. 22 2007,17:51)
As an added bonus, I will have met DaveScot by then and will be happy to share.

Assuming you both survive.

As I once told DaveTard, my superior footspeed will allow me to bob and weave his tard.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,19:55   

Russell inquired:
 
Quote (Russell @ Jan. 22 2007,17:43)
What were the beverage preferences of the Seattle Five?

With one exception, all of us had local ales.  Steviepinhead stuck with Dry Blackthorn Cider.

snoeman:  Mac & Jack's Amber
argystokes: Hale's Cream Ale
JohnW: A local IPA (don't remember the brewer)
clamboy: A local dark winter ale (also don't remember the brewer)

Blipey asked:
Quote
Hey, I'll be in Seattle in 8(?) weeks, or something like that.  If the Seattle AtBC meetings continue, I would love to attend one.  I'll pay my dues (and buy beer).  As an added bonus, I will have met DaveScot by then and will be happy to share.


We've not scheduled the next meeting, but I'll bet that we could make ourselves available for an ad hoc session.  :)

  
Faid



Posts: 1143
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 22 2007,20:03   

Daaaamn! My reasons to visit Seattle keep piling up!

If only it wasn't on the other side of the *&%$#I&* planet...

--------------
A look into DAVE HAWKINS' sense of honesty:

"The truth is that ALL mutations REDUCE information"

"...mutations can add information to a genome. †And remember, I have never said that this is not possible."

  
clamboy



Posts: 221
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,11:15   

One small correction to the minutes: while it is true that I have been lurking for, like, friggin' ever at talk.origins, it has been since about 1998 or so, not '96. All I know is, McCoy was there when I arrived, and hasn't said *one new thing* since!

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,14:26   

Quote (snoeman @ Jan. 22 2007,19:55)
With one exception, all of us had local ales. †Steviepinhead stuck with Dry Blackthorn Cider.

Is that the same as cider in the UK? Just that in the USA I found cider= non alcoholic apple juice. In the UK  Blackthorn is aprox 6% ABV IIRC and is quite nice on a summers day.

If Stevie likes that, he should definately consider a trip to Cornwall and Devon in the UK. Cider heaven (the real head-banging mad sruff).

  
JohnW



Posts: 2839
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,14:36   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 23 2007,14:26)
Quote (snoeman @ Jan. 22 2007,19:55)
With one exception, all of us had local ales. †Steviepinhead stuck with Dry Blackthorn Cider.

Is that the same as cider in the UK? Just that in the USA I found cider= non alcoholic apple juice. In the UK †Blackthorn is aprox 6% ABV IIRC and is quite nice on a summers day.

If Stevie likes that, he should definately consider a trip to Cornwall and Devon in the UK. Cider heaven (the real head-banging mad sruff).

"Cider" in the US usually means unfermented apple juice, unless it's "hard cider".  Steviepinhead was drinking the imported Taunton stuff.

I warned him about the "real' West Country stuff - it's not real cider if you're not picking bits out from between your teeth.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,15:07   

Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 23 2007,14:36)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 23 2007,14:26)
Quote (snoeman @ Jan. 22 2007,19:55)
With one exception, all of us had local ales. †Steviepinhead stuck with Dry Blackthorn Cider.

Is that the same as cider in the UK? Just that in the USA I found cider= non alcoholic apple juice. In the UK †Blackthorn is aprox 6% ABV IIRC and is quite nice on a summers day.

If Stevie likes that, he should definately consider a trip to Cornwall and Devon in the UK. Cider heaven (the real head-banging mad sruff).

"Cider" in the US usually means unfermented apple juice, unless it's "hard cider". †Steviepinhead was drinking the imported Taunton stuff.

I warned him about the "real' West Country stuff - it's not real cider if you're not picking bits out from between your teeth.

No, no, no. That stuff with pickings in is Scrumpy. Avoid at all costs, it may just destroy the brain.

Cider alone punches above its ABV. As does our good "real ale" bitters. By Jove, I live in a land of alcohol that is beyond compare. That is not even including our stouts, milds, browns and IPAs.

Truly a land of plenty when it comes as beer choices.

  
JohnW



Posts: 2839
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,15:49   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 23 2007,15:07)
Quote (JohnW @ Jan. 23 2007,14:36)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 23 2007,14:26)
 
Quote (snoeman @ Jan. 22 2007,19:55)
With one exception, all of us had local ales. †Steviepinhead stuck with Dry Blackthorn Cider.

Is that the same as cider in the UK? Just that in the USA I found cider= non alcoholic apple juice. In the UK †Blackthorn is aprox 6% ABV IIRC and is quite nice on a summers day.

If Stevie likes that, he should definately consider a trip to Cornwall and Devon in the UK. Cider heaven (the real head-banging mad sruff).

"Cider" in the US usually means unfermented apple juice, unless it's "hard cider". †Steviepinhead was drinking the imported Taunton stuff.

I warned him about the "real' West Country stuff - it's not real cider if you're not picking bits out from between your teeth.

No, no, no. That stuff with pickings in is Scrumpy. Avoid at all costs, it may just destroy the brain.

Cider alone punches above its ABV. As does our good "real ale" bitters. By Jove, I live in a land of alcohol that is beyond compare. That is not even including our stouts, milds, browns and IPAs.

Truly a land of plenty when it comes as beer choices.

But isn't scrumpy just a subset of cider?  Scrumpy is cider, but cider isn't necessarily scrumpy?

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
MidnightVoice



Posts: 380
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,16:51   

Scrumpy is not really scrumpy unless there is more than 50% of one dead rat in the barrel  :D

--------------
If I fly the coop some time
And take nothing but a grip
With the few good books that really count
It's a necessary trip

I'll be gone with the girl in the gold silk jacket
The girl with the pearl-driller's hands

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,18:45   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 23 2007,15:07)
Truly a land of plenty when it comes as beer choices.

That's because it's always cloudy and cold, and the only things to DO are (1) drink beer and (2) make more Britons.


;)


-edit-  Come to think of it, that sounds like Seattle, too.   ;)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,21:23   

Quote
-edit-  Come to think of it, that sounds like Seattle, too.   ;)


They make Britons in Seattle?

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,21:59   

Quote (blipey @ Jan. 23 2007,21:23)
Quote
-edit-  Come to think of it, that sounds like Seattle, too.   ;)


They make Britons in Seattle?

Well heck, there must be SOME.

They go there for the climate.

;)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 23 2007,23:36   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 23 2007,21:59)
 
Quote (blipey @ Jan. 23 2007,21:23)
 
Quote
-edit-  Come to think of it, that sounds like Seattle, too.   ;)


They make Britons in Seattle?

Well heck, there must be SOME.

They go there for the climate.

;)

I resent that.  Our three weeks of summer are the nicest you'll find anywhere. ;)

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2007,11:44   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 23 2007,18:45)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 23 2007,15:07)
Truly a land of plenty when it comes as beer choices.

That's because it's always cloudy and cold, and the only things to DO are (1) drink beer and (2) make more Britons.


;)


-edit- †Come to think of it, that sounds like Seattle, too. † ;)

So tell me what is wrong with that!
Is there a better way to live than beer and sex?

If cloudy weather is the cause then I shall pray for rain. Seems a bit pointless though when it rains anyway.

Perhaps it would be better to concentrate on beer and sex.

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2007,17:46   

Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 24 2007,11:44)
So tell me what is wrong with that!
Is there a better way to live than beer and sex?

None that I can think of.  Certainly I enjoy beer and sex, particularly together.

But it'd be nice to have some SUNSHINE, so the beer and sex can move outdoors at any time of the year.  

;)

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 24 2007,19:37   

Quote ("Rev Dr" Lenny Flank @ Jan. 24 2007,15:46)
Quote (Stephen Elliott @ Jan. 24 2007,11:44)
So tell me what is wrong with that!
Is there a better way to live than beer and sex?

None that I can think of.  Certainly I enjoy beer and sex, particularly together.

But it'd be nice to have some SUNSHINE, so the beer and sex can move outdoors at any time of the year.  

;)

Pansy-ass southerner. Real Seattle Men drink beer and have sex in the rain. :angry:

--------------
"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 27 2007,16:01   

Yes, but is it possible to enjoy beer and sex (or, okay, cider and sex) in the rain and still be intellectually honest?

  
Steviepinhead



Posts: 532
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,18:05   

Getting back to the bureaucratic procedural type stuff--

Do we want to schedule another meeting between now and blipey's visit?

Or do we want to kick back, enjoy the frost on our windshields, and wait for blipey to instigate another round of drinking and IDiot-plonking?

Any distaff Seattle AtBC'ers out there are, of course, more than welcome to shimmy on down.

My only requirement, needless to say, being that the said establishment serves the said cider!  But that's actually a fair few places now, including such spots as the Reading Gaol, the Hilltop, Bick's, ... not to mention the aforesaid 74th St.

Heck, even the Barking Dog has Asphall's, or something o' that ilk, though it's awful flippin' expensive...!

  
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,23:17   

Quote (Steviepinhead @ Feb. 01 2007,18:05)
Getting back to the bureaucratic procedural type stuff--

Do we want to schedule another meeting between now and blipey's visit?

Or do we want to kick back, enjoy the frost on our windshields, and wait for blipey to instigate another round of drinking and IDiot-plonking?

Any distaff Seattle AtBC'ers out there are, of course, more than welcome to shimmy on down.

My only requirement, needless to say, being that the said establishment serves the said cider!  But that's actually a fair few places now, including such spots as the Reading Gaol, the Hilltop, Bick's, ... not to mention the aforesaid 74th St.

Heck, even the Barking Dog has Asphall's, or something o' that ilk, though it's awful flippin' expensive...!

I am, in principle, always in favor of more beer.

What about the 17th? (Saturday)

The 74th St. Alehouse works well for me.

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 01 2007,23:33   

boy, as a total contrast to typical Seattle, i live in Palm Springs (CA), where we get about .25 inches of rain a year, and today it was a balmy 72 degrees and sunny.

unfortunately, i doubt there are too many science fans around this neck of the woods.

golf, yes.

science, no.

However, should there be an interest in beer, sex, or general conversation in a guaranteed sunny environ...

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
snoeman



Posts: 109
Joined: April 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 02 2007,00:04   

Quote (Ichthyic @ Feb. 01 2007,23:33)
boy, as a total contrast to typical Seattle, i live in Palm Springs (CA), where we get about .25 inches of rain a year, and today it was a balmy 72 degrees and sunny.

unfortunately, i doubt there are too many science fans around this neck of the woods.

golf, yes.

science, no.

However, should there be an interest in beer, sex, or general conversation in a guaranteed sunny environ...

Actually, our weather has been exactly the same as Palm Springs over the last several days... except for the "72 degrees" and "balmy" parts.

You'll be happy to know, by the way, that despite the depressing state of science education in the US, one of my colleague's nieces has really committed herself to become an ichthyologist, primarily because she thinks sharks are really cool.

  
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