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Albatrossity2



Posts: 2779
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2007,16:37   

I'm not sure about the group hug or the lipstick, but this has been a very enlightening conversation, at least for me. Two comments.

I wonder how many folks on the other side of this creo/evo debate actually think that atheists hate their god, using the standard definition of hate, not the theologically contrived one. That could explain a lot, even the classic put-down from FtK to Jeremy which is immortalized in Ian's current sig. Too bad we can't just wander over to her blog and ask her directly...

Point #2 is to thank Heddle for the insight, and especially the apology. Although it is not quite abject enough for Louis, I think we can all agree that changing one's mind in response to arguments can never happen on UD, Young Cosmos, ReasonableKansans, or any of the other echo chambers of the neo-creationism machine. Even without the group hug, I feel better about that, and feel even more pity for the poor sods who are trapped in a world where you can never afford to be wrong.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2007,16:39   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Aug. 15 2007,16:37)
I wonder how many folks on the other side of this creo/evo debate actually think that atheists hate their god, using the standard definition of hate, not the theologically contrived one. That could explain a lot, even the classic put-down from FtK to Jeremy which is immortalized in Ian's current sig.

Current and permenant. That was a hilarious comment from someone who claims to not hate atheists and to be, of all things, open minded.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2007,17:17   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Aug. 15 2007,17:37)
I wonder how many folks on the other side of this creo/evo debate actually think that atheists hate their god, using the standard definition of hate, not the theologically contrived one.

Many do.  And sloppy verbiage like we saw from Heddle and the original author only serve to facilitate this erroneous idea and raise the level of enmity that many theists feel for atheists.  In short, the lie that atheists hate god makes theists hate atheists.
Quote
Point #2 is to thank Heddle for the insight, and especially the apology. Although it is not quite abject enough for Louis, I think we can all agree that changing one's mind in response to arguments can never happen on UD, Young Cosmos, ReasonableKansans, or any of the other echo chambers of the neo-creationism machine.

Yes Heddle, you've shown yourself to have more integrity than many of those who comment on your blog.  For the reasons stated above, I hope that you do take more care when discussing this in the future.

  
GCT



Posts: 1001
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2007,17:19   

Quote (Louis @ Aug. 15 2007,09:45)
Sadly for you Heddle "great atheist scholars" DO say precisely that belief in god is as significant as belief in Father Christmas (etc) have you not read Russell's teapot argument? The whole point of these things is to parody the theist's claims and thus demonstrate in the absence of bias or social context that they are ridiculous.

Although Russell's argument might not have been addressed at this specifically, earlier detractors certainly did make these types of arguments.  Many of the pagans in the first couple centuries did make these arguments, and Xians actually changed the Bible in order to try and counter them.  Ehrman discusses this in his book Misquoting Jesus.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,02:08   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Aug. 15 2007,22:37)
Point #2 is to thank Heddle for the insight, and especially the apology. Although it is not quite abject enough for Louis, I think we can all agree that changing one's mind in response to arguments can never happen on UD, Young Cosmos, ReasonableKansans, or any of the other echo chambers of the neo-creationism machine.

No, no! It was more than abject enough for me, hence why I said that as a curmudgeon etc I'd accept it but I wouldn't enjoy it. I was mocking my own curmudgeonlyness not Heddle's excellent apology.

I agree with your sentiments totally.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Henry J



Posts: 4068
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,12:17   

Quote
and Xians actually changed the Bible in order to try and counter them.


Wouldn't that be a form of blasphemy?  :p

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,12:22   

Quote (Henry J @ Aug. 16 2007,20:17)
Quote
and Xians actually changed the Bible in order to try and counter them.


Wouldn't that be a form of blasphemy? ?:p

Oh no call the The Jesus Police

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,15:17   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Hey! What is up with the hoo-hoos?  Did Joel Borofsky sign up?

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,17:21   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 16 2007,14:17)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/>Hey! What is up with the hoo-hoos? ?Did Joel Borofsky sign up?

I feel sexually harassed in an intimidating online environment and I'm going to sue.

:) ?:) ?:) ?;)

That's Bobby Sue. *Unhooks leatherman*

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,17:32   

Quote (Kristine @ Aug. 16 2007,17:21)
?
Quote (carlsonjok @ Aug. 16 2007,14:17)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/>Hey! What is up with the hoo-hoos? ?Did Joel Borofsky sign up?

I feel sexually harassed in an intimidating online environment and I'm going to sue.

Don't blame me. I wasn't the one that posted the picture. I was just wondering if everyone's favorite research assistant and teen culture pundit was in the house.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
stevestory



Posts: 8909
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,18:31   

The Age of Endarkenment

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2007,22:35   

In the same vein, a review of:

HOW MUMBO-JUMBO CONQUERED THE WORLD: A SHORT HISTORY OF MODERN DELUSIONS, By Francis Wheen

here's a bit:

Quote
One quote must suffice to illustrate Wheen's grievances against post-modernism: "Although much post-modernism may be nonsense, it is nonsense with a purpose: by using quasi-scientific terminology the po-mo theologians intended to explode the `objectivity' of science itself. The fact that they knew nothing about mathematics, physics or chemistry was no obstacle . . ."



On bending reality try this for a giggle, type pfizer or CIA into

The wiki scanner

(It might be overloaded)

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,00:51   

In the absence of quality tard this tickled me ...a lot.

From Threat Level at Wired Blogs

Vote On the Most Shameful Wikipedia Spin Jobs -- UPDATED

Apart from major shenanigans by the the usual culprits my favorites are Apple employees saying Bill farts -a lot and this obscure reference.

Creation Science Foundation T/A Answers In Genesis
by Ignis


I knew it was a conspiracy

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,04:59   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,05:17   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,04:59)
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

That's far more than just disgusting Louis.

That's really just off the wall vile. Really frighteningly replusive in every possible way.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,06:06   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,11:17)
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,04:59)
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

That's far more than just disgusting Louis.

That's really just off the wall vile. Really frighteningly replusive in every possible way.

Thank you, we aim to please.

So will you aim too please.

Louis

P.S. A tad overreacting aren't we? Those gentlemen who like other gentlemen do it all the time. I am assured they do, oh yes. Well what I mean is someone told me...erm, yeah that was it!

--------------
Bye.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 17 2007,16:45   

Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,05:06)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/> ?
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,11:17)
?  
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,04:59)
? ?
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

That's far more than just disgusting Louis.

That's really just off the wall vile. Really frighteningly replusive in every possible way.

Thank you, we aim to please.

So will you aim too please.

Louis

P.S. A tad overreacting aren't we? Those gentlemen who like other gentlemen do it all the time. I am assured they do, oh yes. Well what I mean is someone told me...erm, yeah that was it!

:D Well, I thought it was a stitch, I'm sorry. I am a sick woman.

Louis, just to show my appreciation I'm going to cheat on you.

You'd love it. ;)

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,06:15   

Quote (Kristine @ Aug. 17 2007,22:45)
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,05:06)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/> ?  
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,11:17)
? ?
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,04:59)
? ?  
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

That's far more than just disgusting Louis.

That's really just off the wall vile. Really frighteningly replusive in every possible way.

Thank you, we aim to please.

So will you aim too please.

Louis

P.S. A tad overreacting aren't we? Those gentlemen who like other gentlemen do it all the time. I am assured they do, oh yes. Well what I mean is someone told me...erm, yeah that was it!

:D Well, I thought it was a stitch, I'm sorry. I am a sick woman.

Louis, just to show my appreciation I'm going to cheat on you.

You'd love it. ;)

Cheat? On me?

Girl, you CRAAAAAZY!

Smooooove L gonna rock your world if you play nice wiv him.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5378
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,14:34   

Quote (Kristine @ Aug. 17 2007,16:45)
 
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,05:06)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/> ?    
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,11:17)
?    
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,04:59)
? ?    
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

That's far more than just disgusting Louis.

That's really just off the wall vile. Really frighteningly replusive in every possible way.

Thank you, we aim to please.

So will you aim too please.

Louis

P.S. A tad overreacting aren't we? Those gentlemen who like other gentlemen do it all the time. I am assured they do, oh yes. Well what I mean is someone told me...erm, yeah that was it!

:D Well, I thought it was a stitch, I'm sorry. I am a sick woman.

Louis, just to show my appreciation I'm going to cheat on you.

You'd love it. ;)

I thought it was pretty funny, too.

Perfect timing, Louis.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,14:40   

I'm just amused by the spectacle of an Englishman calling another Englishman 'disgusting' for a change... :p

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Aardvark



Posts: 134
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,20:52   

[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]

I will pray for Jesus to save you!


:p

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2007,23:01   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 18 2007,22:40)
I'm just amused by the spectacle of an Englishman calling another Englishman 'disgusting' for a change... :p

Yes and they haven't even been introduced, wear the same school tie  or were in the same service.

I expect one of them to go off to the library and shoot oneself after such an outrageous [i]faux pas[/s] saying something like "I am just going outside and may be some time.".

It's the British thing to do after all, what.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,04:24   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 18 2007,20:40)
I'm just amused by the spectacle of an Englishman calling another Englishman 'disgusting' for a change... :p

He's not English, he's Welsh. I.e. a member of a degenerate brood of half breeds suited to close harmony singing, druidic worship and of course (this goes without saying, but I thought I'd mention just FYI) the molestation of sheep.

Frankly when you compare them to the English (a mongrel horde of illiterate, flabby, sexually deviant, violent alcoholics with a penchant for Morris dancing, casual racism and spanking. A group so vile even the sheep turned them down) we Englanders come out on top every time.

Right?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,04:33   

Quote (Kristine @ Aug. 17 2007,16:45)
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,05:06)
[Graffiti moved to Bathroom Wall. -Admin]<br/><br/> ? ?
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,11:17)
? ?  
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 17 2007,04:59)
? ? ?
Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 17 2007,10:17)
Oh god yes. This guy is unbelievably dense.

I've come across him before, the freakin' loony.

I hope you wiped it off and said sorry.

Louis

That's far more than just disgusting Louis.

That's really just off the wall vile. Really frighteningly replusive in every possible way.

Thank you, we aim to please.

So will you aim too please.

Louis

P.S. A tad overreacting aren't we? Those gentlemen who like other gentlemen do it all the time. I am assured they do, oh yes. Well what I mean is someone told me...erm, yeah that was it!

:D Well, I thought it was a stitch, I'm sorry. I am a sick woman.

Nah! You aint sick. It was bloody funny.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,04:40   

Quote (k.e @ Aug. 19 2007,05:01)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 18 2007,22:40)
I'm just amused by the spectacle of an Englishman calling another Englishman 'disgusting' for a change... :p

Yes and they haven't even been introduced, wear the same school tie ?or were in the same service.

I expect one of them to go off to the library and shoot oneself after such an outrageous [i]faux pas[/s] saying something like "I am just going outside and may be some time.".

It's the British thing to do after all, what.

Oh well, now if you want to get into the class issue:

Since neither of us (AFAIK) served in the Guards, I'm sure the service affiliation can be ignored. I don't think (although I am happy to be corrected) that Ian attended a Headmasters Conference Public school, Oxford or Cambridge or even just a Russell Group University. I doubt he is even clubbable. I however have done the lot, so therefore I, and one so hates to brag but one has to on occasion, am of a superior class. I have the ties, handshakes and badges to prove it, as if my snooty air of self satisfaction didn't already accomplish this footling task.

What this means, you servile little collection of colonials and proles, is that when I say "fuck" I do it with a certain insouciant espieglerie that endears one to my rather effete superiority. In addition, when there is any form of war on, I get to sit hundreds of miles away wearing a smoking jacket and a moustache net whilst sipping mint julips and occasionally buggering my catamite or adjutant, whomsoever is most at hand. I am, by law, entitled to herd sheep across the bridges of my choosing, wear spats, petition dear old Auntie Liz for a swan supper, and shoot foreigners and Welshmen at whim. I can also smoke opium, wear taupe, have my own native bearer or bag wallah as the situation demands. According to the dictates of my class I have foisted legions of bastards upon my servants and scullery maids in a variety of nations and am a haemophiliac.

I embody the very epitome of this noble isle, this Albion. The bulldog spirit, the desire for minor breeds of facism and the innate knowledge of superiority. And to use the wise words of Kipling I do indeed thank God for I have won the great lottery of life by being born an Englishman.

Hurrah!

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
IanBrown_101



Posts: 927
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,07:31   

Quote (Louis @ Aug. 19 2007,04:24)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 18 2007,20:40)
I'm just amused by the spectacle of an Englishman calling another Englishman 'disgusting' for a change... :p

He's not English, he's Welsh. I.e. a member of a degenerate brood of half breeds suited to close harmony singing, druidic worship and of course (this goes without saying, but I thought I'd mention just FYI) the molestation of sheep.

Frankly when you compare them to the English (a mongrel horde of illiterate, flabby, sexually deviant, violent alcoholics with a penchant for Morris dancing, casual racism and spanking. A group so vile even the sheep turned them down) we Englanders come out on top every time.

Right?

Louis

He's HALF Welsh.

--------------
I'm not the fastest or the baddest or the fatest.

You NEVER seem to address the fact that the grand majority of people supporting Darwinism in these on line forums and blogs are atheists. That doesn't seem to bother you guys in the least. - FtK

Roddenberry is my God.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,08:07   

So Louis, Ian is only half Welsh?

Well, Thats almost as bad as this* guy suggesting after the regimental dinner that he would be in to spank the buttucks of the departing "firm bodied young amazon women" soon.

Right Louis I think you know what you have to do.

*Ripping Yarns ---Louis of the Raj

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,08:20   

Quote (IanBrown_101 @ Aug. 19 2007,13:31)
Quote (Louis @ Aug. 19 2007,04:24)
Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Aug. 18 2007,20:40)
I'm just amused by the spectacle of an Englishman calling another Englishman 'disgusting' for a change... :p

He's not English, he's Welsh. I.e. a member of a degenerate brood of half breeds suited to close harmony singing, druidic worship and of course (this goes without saying, but I thought I'd mention just FYI) the molestation of sheep.

Frankly when you compare them to the English (a mongrel horde of illiterate, flabby, sexually deviant, violent alcoholics with a penchant for Morris dancing, casual racism and spanking. A group so vile even the sheep turned them down) we Englanders come out on top every time.

Right?

Louis

He's HALF Welsh.

Pfffff!

That's like saying one can be a half virgin. Face it Ian, any Welshness corrupts the whole barrel. 'Tis an insidious and pernicious flaw so it is.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,08:33   

Quote (k.e @ Aug. 19 2007,14:07)
So Louis, Ian is only half Welsh?

Well, Thats almost as bad as this* guy suggesting after the regimental dinner that he would be in to spank the buttucks of the departing "firm bodied young amazon women" soon.

Right Louis I think you know what you have to do.

*Ripping Yarns ---Louis of the Raj

Yes I do, yes I bally well do!

It involves a horsewhip!

BOYYYYY!!!! BRING ME MY HORSE WHIP, MY PITH HELMET AND MY WELSHMAN TONGS*!!!

Louis

*Can't be doing with touching a Welshman, contagious you know. Never trust a Welshman, that's what Nanny told me. And she should know. She was one.

--------------
Bye.

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2007,08:42   

Just watched the whole thing.
It's almost 30 years since ripping yarns came out and they are still one of the funniest things ever put on TV.

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
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