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  Topic: The Long Term Looks Good< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
stevestory



Posts: 8990
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,14:48   

I don't consider ID/Creationism a real threat to science. The Discovery Institute can shoot off all the press releases they want, and hold fake scientific conferences, and publish fake papers in their journal, and thereby fool a fraction of the religious laymen, but that's about it. All the clueless ID bloggers in the world can't unpublish any of the thousands of evolution research papers from last year, can't defund any of the thousands of biology labs across the country, can't rewrite the genetic code or the geologic column or the isotope ratios. While it's easy to get worked up about day-to-day things, the long term trends are good.

More people are going to college now, and being exposed to science, and it's having an effect:




http://scienceblogs.com/cortex....n_g.php

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10305
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,15:01   

http://www.pollingreport.com/religion.htm

Is a goldmine of bad news for UDudes.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
jeannot



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(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,15:03   

The long term looks good... it depends.

When UD, OE and other comedic sites are shut down, ATBC will get a little boring.
Think about the loss of entertaining value, for christ sake! :angry:

Seriously, from my (French) point of vue, ID is just that. I never considered it as a threat, just a curiosity.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10305
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,15:06   

Quote (jeannot @ April 16 2007,15:03)
The long term looks good... it depends.

When UD, OE and other comedic sites are shut down, ATBC will get a little boring.
Think about the loss of entertaining value, for christ sake! :angry:

I too am conflicted by this. I've written about the golden age of tard before. I'm encouraged by DaveTard's expansion into DCA, Global Warming and size 48 pants.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



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Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,15:30   

One reason is that evidence pours in at a dramatic rate these days. The rate of scientific discovery increases with time. It's easy to count the number of ID papers published last year, zero, but it would take me hours to estimate how many thousands of evolution papers were published in 2006. Additionally, people are way more exposed to science than they used to be. It seems like every day new evolution-related discoveries are made and reported in the popular press.   (NCSU WOOT WOOT!) Also I think the Flynn effect has something to do with it. Evolution is a multi-part process and the evidence for it runs across many scientific fields. It stands to reason that as intelligence increases, the ability to understand evolution will too.

   
Fross



Posts: 71
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,16:13   

there's still a large misconception about what evolution is.  For instance, most everyone I know accepts it, but they'll commonly say things that are closer to the cartoon version of evolution than the real thing.  (Cartoon version being something you'd see on the movie Evolution or in a Star Trek episode.)

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"For everything else, there's Mastertard"

   
Richardthughes



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(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,16:21   

EVILUTION = ATHEISM / SATANISM.

Duh!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



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(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,16:33   

Quote (Richardthughes @ April 16 2007,15:06)
 
Quote (jeannot @ April 16 2007,15:03)
The long term looks good... it depends.

When UD, OE and other comedic sites are shut down, ATBC will get a little boring.
Think about the loss of entertaining value, for christ sake! :angry:

I too am conflicted by this. I've written about the golden age of tard before. I'm encouraged by DaveTard's expansion into DCA, Global Warming and size 48 pants.

I think the only real solution will be Dave getting his own blog.

 
Quote
there's still a large misconception about what evolution is.  For instance, most everyone I know accepts it, but they'll commonly say things that are closer to the cartoon version of evolution than the real thing.  (Cartoon version being something you'd see on the movie Evolution or in a Star Trek episode.)


The American commitment to education being what it is, that's probably the best we can hope for. As long as the bulk of the American public doesn't share the opinions of, say, Ken Ham, we're more or less okay.

(Way to set the bar LOW, Arden!!;)

Quote
The rate of scientific discovery increases with time. It's easy to count the number of ID papers published last year, zero, but it would take me hours to estimate how many thousands of evolution papers were published in 2006.


Yes, and there aren't too many ways to expand on 'Goddidit' or 'why do we still have apes?'  ;)

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
guthrie



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(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,17:43   

Quote (stevestory @ April 16 2007,15:30)
One reason is that evidence pours in at a dramatic rate these days. The rate of scientific discovery increases with time.

I wouldn't say that, exactly.  I recall a few years ago someone did some calculations and worked out that the rate of discovery of important breakthroughs and stuff had actually decreased over the past few decades.

What we have a great deal of is filling in the gaps, which makes a nice wide and high and very solid wall for Creationists to run their motorbike into at high speed.

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,18:35   

Quote (stevestory @ April 16 2007,14:48)
I don't consider ID/Creationism a real threat to science.

It never was.  (shrug)

What it WAS, though, was a real theocratic POLITICAL threat to democracy and the rule of constitutional law.

Fortunately, ID/creationists couldn't organize their way out of a wet paper bag, so they made spectacular public failures of themselves.

Now, they are no longer a real political threat (and the rest of their Religious Right compadres show every sign of following them down to oblivion and political irrelevance).  So now I simply consider them to be free entertainment.  I find it great fun to yank their chains and listen to them howl madly at the moon.  

Like FTK does.

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



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Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 16 2007,18:41   

Quote (jeannot @ April 16 2007,15:03)
When UD, OE and other comedic sites are shut down, ATBC will get a little boring.
Think about the loss of entertaining value, for christ sake! :angry:

Don't worry, they'll be back.  Different name, but same old shit.  

Some of us here have been in this game long enough to remember the big slump that happened in 1987, after the creationuts lost the Supreme Court case in Louisiana and retired from the field to lick their wounds -- leaving us as a heavily armed and highly motivated group of hunters with no more targets to shoot at.

Fortunately, within a few years, ID was born, and the target shooting once again commenced with gusto.


Give the fundies a few years.  As soon as they think up a nice new name for their same old scam, they'll be back in force.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
Chris Hyland



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(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2007,05:39   

An atendee to the design conference speaks to a DI fellow:
Quote
I asked him how many of these conferences were planned by the Discovery Institute, and he seemed hesitant, telling me that he didn't know if any more of them were going to be possible, since the costs were too high for the Institute to handle. He mentioned something about it costing $70,000, although I don't recall if that was the amount to produce the Dallas event alone, or if that was the current cost for the whole series thus far (the only previous event being in Knoxville). He complained that there had been virtually no money allocated for advertising, the sole contribution being $1000 paid to Scott Wilder for an "interview" of Stephen Meyer a week previously. He then told me (quite openly, also, which I thought was odd) that the financial situation of the Discovery Institute was grim, and that they were "bleeding money" and were "barely able to keep the lights on in Seattle."

  
keiths



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2007,06:40   

Chris,
Do you have a link for that?

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Chris Hyland



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Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2007,07:46   

Here's the link: http://goosetheantithesis.blogspot.com/2007....el.html

What really puzzles me about the whole thing is that even if it is just an excuse to evangelize for Jesus, assuming that ID proponents actually believe what there saying, it should have been pretty easy to get some positive results from research. What has always surprised me is that no one can even say what ID research would be in any detail. You'd think they would at least try.

  
stevestory



Posts: 8990
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2007,08:49   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ April 18 2007,08:46)
What really puzzles me about the whole thing is that even if it is just an excuse to evangelize for Jesus, assuming that ID proponents actually believe what there saying, it should have been pretty easy to get some positive results from research.

That's the basis of my questions to FtK. You could put together a High School science club which would get far more research done than is found in the ID 'journal'.

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 18 2007,18:19   

Quote (Chris Hyland @ April 18 2007,07:46)
What really puzzles me about the whole thing is that even if it is just an excuse to evangelize for Jesus, assuming that ID proponents actually believe what there saying, it should have been pretty easy to get some positive results from research. What has always surprised me is that no one can even say what ID research would be in any detail. You'd think they would at least try.

Why bother?  They've already lost in court.  There is simply no need anymore to maintain the "ID is science" deception.

Just like the post-1987 creation 'scientists', the IDers will now make their living by openly preaching to the faithful.  (shrug)

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Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
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