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Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,05:55   

Quote (stevestory @ June 09 2006,10:45)
We all have to go sometime. Why not go out fabulous?


The funny thing about the Uncommonly Dense appreciation of Ann Coulter is, she doesn't actually believe what she's saying. You can see her sometimes trying not to laugh. She realized there was a demand for a certain kind of showbiz performance, and she's made millions off it. Sort of like how Dembski knows he hasn't overturned or disproven evolution, but he can make millions if he pretends to have done so.

Quote
Dembski knows he hasn't overturned or disproven evolution, but he can make millions if he pretends to have done so.


Why do you think he always says "please read chapter 6 in 'no real hunch'"... It’s just the next generation of televangelism. Buy my snake oil.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,05:59   

Spock a word in your ear if I may?

Spock smiles

Would I be right in thinking that a zero energy wave is a wave with zero energy?

Close, sir.

Back in zero gravity school they told us that a wave IS actually energy.

Closer, captain.

So a zero energy wave is an oxymoron?

You earthlings are so slow

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The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
stevestory



Posts: 8884
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,06:03   

It would be fantastic if, once the bank account was full enough, Coulter or Dembski had a big public laugh at their followers, but unfortunately, as long as the royalties slowly trickle in, it's in their best interests not to do so.

It's probably in my best interests, too, as I'd die from laughing too hard.

   
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,06:09   

Quote (GCT @ June 09 2006,10:28)
So, Dembski decided the best way to push his embarrassment over the non-quote mine affair was to publish right wing political commentaries?

It would appear so.  He's been burned so often (and rightly so) for just causing entire arguments to 'disappear' (and especially since he knows that no longer works) that he just buries under a ton of marginally relevant postings any trace that he has, once again, made a colossal ass of himself.

Dembski doesn't appear to understand a very basic rule of the internet: it is not possible to bury the evidence that you are a moron.

And he is, indeed, a moron.  Not in the 'intellectual sense'; he can still compose a readable sentence.

But he really does have nothing left.  Wesley is correct: his position has gone from important (to the DI and ID advocates) with his CSI concept and the Baylor center, to irrelevant (to the same crowd) by his fumbling away the center, failing to push CSI in any kind of intellectually significant direction, and his increasingly paranoid, juvenile, and ethically questionable behavior.

It must be hard to respect yourself when the only people who respect you are ignorant idiots.  ???

  
bourgeois_rage



Posts: 117
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,06:58   

Quote
If you aren’t conscious of your religion then you are unconscious of it.


Buh?

If you can't post comments then comments can't be posted by you. You're outta here. -dt

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Overwhelming Evidence: Apply directly to the forehead.

   
stevestory



Posts: 8884
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,07:07   

LOL a few days ago Donald M, stupidly believing Dembski without checking, showed up to attack PvM:

Quote
Comment #104217

Posted by Donald M on June 7, 2006 11:08 AM (e) | kill

Pim writes (quoting Dembski):
Quote

   In the limit, a designer could therefore impart information into the universe without inputting any energy at all. Whether the designer works through quantum mechanical effects is not ultimately the issue here.

Pim here misquotes. There needs to be an ellipsis between the first and second sentence because Pim left out,oh,only about 11 paragraphs of further explanation between those two sentences. And all this time we’ve been told that it is only the “creationists” that quote mine!! Guess that myth is now finally laid to rest!! Pim, thanks for finally making clear the double standard that exists regarding the charge of “quote mining”.


You know where this is going, don't you? Pim burns Donald with a link to the quoted bits, exactly as he said it was, in

comment 104220.

Well, poor Donald never learned the first rule of holes, so he returns and trys to reimagine a new crime Pim must be guilty of:

Quote
comment 104716

Posted by Donald McLaughlin on June 9, 2006 11:24 AM (e) | kill

Pim:
Quote

   DonaldM should be able to back up his assertions that I left out 11 paragraphs of further explanations when I quoted Dembdksi

Well, since you didn’t bother to reference from where you drew the quote, like Dembski, I assumed it came from NFL, page335. Telling me that *I* should have googled the quote or something is about as disingenous as it gets, Pim. YOU should have made clear from where you drew the quote. But given the way you consistently misrepresent ID in general and Dembski in particular, I’m not surprised that you wouldn’t take the time to reference your quote in the OP.

And since the paper you quoted pre-dates NFL, the fair thing to do would be to quote the book. If an IDP did the same thing, you guys would have spared no ad hominem in attacking it. The double standards here are palpable. And you expect us to take your ‘critques’ of ID seriously??!!! You can’t be serious.

   
Quote
Is Donald now so desperate that he has to accuse people of quote mining for providing an extensive quote?


You didn’t provide the extensive quote from NFL. I suspect you knew full well that Dembski had, in fact, expanded on this paper in NFL, yet chose to use the paper instead. IN other words, Pim, you deliberately chose to misrepresent the Dembski’s argument. That is the very thing you accuse IDPs of doing all the time…quotemining.

Your deliberate subterfuge has been exposed.

   
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,08:48   

Mmmmmm...irony. So delicious.

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AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Spike



Posts: 49
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,08:53   

No flame war intended, Ichthyic, but I do admit to a little trolling.  ;)

dhogza,

You will get no argument form me that it is the neo-con faction of the conservatives who interfere in other people’s lives in the ways you list. You left out a few that apply more generally to conservatives as a whole: Putting my hard-earned money into the pockets of some of the most profitable businesses on the planet through corporate welfare, killing thousands and thousands of innocent people in “heathen” lands to protect the interests of big oil and Halliburton, building a giant wall along our southern border to keep out people who are losing their livelihood because of our government’s support of big agra…We could go on all day.

But, lest you commit the lie of omission, which should also break your honesty meter, you need to include in your list the following liberal policies that do affect how you and I live:

It is the liberals who tell me what kind of employment contract I can enter and how much I must get paid, that I have to pay for schools my kids will never attend, that I can’t smoke in a private bar or restaurant (here in WA), that I can’t build on my own land the way I see fit, that I have to pay for a train system I will never ride, and football and baseball stadiums I would never miss (here in WA), that I must participate in a government-run retirement plan that’s unlikely to pay much of anything when it’s time for me to draw, that I have to pay for the campaigns of candidates I would never vote for, and limit my choices on the ballot (well, that one goes for both sides), … We could go on all day.

One important exception to your list is the FDA, started in a liberal era, that -does- tell us what substances we can and cannot put in our bodies – for our own good. Having worked in the biopharmaceutical industry, in the quality control and quality assurance fields, my experience is that many of the rules of the FDA do not make scientific sense. They are merely barriers to entry into the market, designed to keep new companies out and protect the interests of established ones. Many FDA policies have the unintended consequence of keeping effective medicines out of the hands of patients who need them. And, remembering Vioxx, the FDA does not always prevent harmful medications from reaching the market.

There are no FDA investigators looking over the shoulders of bio-tech and pharma employees. It is only the honesty and integrity of those people on a daily basis that gives us medicines that are safe and effective.

There was a request earlier, on another thread, I think, for Wesley to open up an area for more general topics. This discussion does not belong in this thread, since it has nothing to do with UD, but we have nowhere else to put it.

If Wesley wants to dump it entirely as not pertaining to the topic of this board, fine by me. Then, prehaps dhogza can recommend another board where we can continue our discussion, and where Sir_Toejam can join us to diss my "extreme libertarianism."

  
stevestory



Posts: 8884
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,09:02   

I think it would be good to have an anything goes area, because PT has drawn a few dozen smart people who loiter around here. It would be good to enable discussion about other things.

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4474
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,09:03   

There's a "Government and Science" topic to cover the FDA issue, as well as other ways in which government and science interact.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,09:46   

Quote
and where Sir_Toejam can join us to diss my "extreme libertarianism."


actually, since Wes made that thread, it would be a good place to discuss that very thing.

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,09:48   

Based on the last thread at WAD's smile a while a lonny bin, they are getting serious about this ID to IE thing.  As if changing the name will somehow make it legit...

Too funny.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,09:53   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ June 09 2006,14:48)
Based on the last thread at WAD's smile a while a lonny bin, they are getting serious about this ID to IE thing.  As if changing the name will somehow make it legit...

Too funny.

Renaming a corpse will not bring it back to life. Plus the name change trick didn't work last time - this time it will be more obvious.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Tiax



Posts: 62
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,10:27   

You'd think that the big ruckus that went on in Dover about the Pandas text with subtle name changes from creationism to ID would teach Dembski not to openly discuss these things.  Of course, maybe he still believes ID won't need another name change in a few years.

  
Rilke's Granddaughter



Posts: 311
Joined: Jan. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,11:10   

Personally, I think he's just desperately seraching for a new way to become 'relevant' again: "Hey, that Dembski guy's sweet!  He just got a whole new name!"

After all, he can't do research; he doesn't do any relevant math (technically sound, but situationally irrelevant math games don't count); and apparently he's a pretty lousy teacher.

What's left?  Sitting around and being appreciated by Sal and Dave "butt-licker" Springer-Spaniel Scott must get rather dull after a while.

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,11:21   

Sorry, it wasn't my intent to derail the thread into a political discussion.  Just one quick point of accuracy, though...
Quote
You will get no argument form me that it is the neo-con faction of the conservatives who interfere in other people’s lives in the ways you list.

Actually, it's the Christian Right faction.

Neo-conservatives are something else altogether - from WikiPedia:

"Neoconservatism (or neocon) refers to the political movement, ideology, and public policy goals of "new conservatives" in the United States, that are relatively unopposed to "big government" principles and believe in limited restrictions on social spending.

In the context of United States foreign policy, neoconservative has another, narrower definition. Critics [citation needed] define it as interventionist with hawkish views on foreign policy. Supporters define it as advocating the use of military force, unilaterally if necessary, to replace autocratic regimes with democratic ones. This view competes with liberal internationalism, realism, and non-interventionism.

The prefix "neo" can denote that many of the movement's founders, originally liberals, Democrats or from socialist backgrounds, were new to conservatism, but can also refer to the comparatively recent emergence of this "new wave" of conservative thought, which coalesced in the early 1970s from a variety of intellectual roots in the decades following World War II. It also serves to distinguish the ideology from the viewpoints of "old" or traditional American conservatism."

Traditional American conservatives were historically isolationist, against social service, etc, in stark contrast to true neo-conservatives.

Hopefully straightening out definitions won't lead to more political discussion, I just get tired of the misuse of the word "neo-conservative".

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,11:33   

Well, Dembski is seriously suggesting that ID be renamed Intelligent Evolution.  Why?  Because ID has gotten such bad press recently.

Which brings the following from one Marcos:
 
Quote
“There is no use changing the name from “intelligent design” to “intelligent evolution”. The intractable Darwinist opposition will react to the “new” concept in exactly the same way-with relentless criticism and abuse.”

Yep. And the new sound bite would be “Intelligent Evolution is Intelligent Design in a cheap tuxedo”.


(Marcos wrote the response).

What's so funny, of course, is that Dembski's proposing a relabelling, not a "new theory".  So it would be ACCURATE to describe IE as "ID in a cheap tuxedo".

Another shot-to-the-foot by one of Dembski's admirers.

  
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,12:10   

but... ID itself was just a cheap tuxedo.

don't they get hot wearing all those layers of cheap clothes?

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,12:54   

It is just as Lenny says. They have no idea why they have lost, even when it is explained to them they just don't get it.

Here they go again. Is IE now the oficial replacement for Sudden Emergence; Or it's precursor?

They have learned marketing and think it is science. They should ask for the tuition fees back.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4474
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,12:56   

The use of "Rate My Professor" as a tool on UD to diss people is a bit ironic, given the entries there for William Dembski. I think that the odds are that the entries there about Dembski are not really from students of his. The RMP site strikes me as something that encourages the accumulation of wildly inaccurate information.

On second thought, that does make it just like a sister site to UD.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
stevestory



Posts: 8884
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,13:00   

Quote

Renaming a corpse will not bring it back to life. Plus the name change trick didn't work last time - this time it will be more obvious.


That's what makes it so damn funny. If you want to hide under an assumed name, you can't tell everyone about it.


   
argystokes



Posts: 766
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,13:04   

I for one would love the ID folks to change to IE and start including theistic evolutionists in their big tent.  Then they could really send the message, "It's not science we're fighting, it's atheism!"

Which would get them totally boned in every court case, as they have for the last 25 years.

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"Why waste time learning, when ignorance is instantaneous?" -Calvin

  
stevestory



Posts: 8884
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,13:15   


   
Ichthyic



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,13:19   

Bill should adopt the strategy of another Bill we all know and love when trying to play the denial game:

http://home.earthlink.net/~tjneal/BillDeniesIt.wav

--------------
"And the sea will grant each man new hope..."

-CC

  
thurdl01



Posts: 99
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,13:58   

Ah, I see, by calling their side "intelligent evolution" then actual biological study becomes "stupid evolution."

*eye roll*

  
Henry J



Posts: 4050
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,16:27   

Re "Captain... they're scanning us with zero wavelength energy. Our shields are useless. Logic dictates... GOD DID IT."

Nah. If that situation occurred on Star Trek they'd blame Q, not G. ;)

---

Re "If you want to hide under an assumed name, you can't tell everyone about it."

Yet one also can't do politics (or at least not effectively) while hiding. :)

Henry

  
Fross



Posts: 71
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,19:48   

Demski is known to post links to news stories with the words "intelligent design" in them to make it seem like I.D. is making headway.  (even though the articles themselves lend absolutely no support to I.D)   Changing the term to "Intelligent Evolution"  will allow him to start doing the same thing to news stories and articles on evolution.  The research supporing I.E. as opposed to I.D. will automatically increase 100 fold.


I also love the creationist way of doing science.

1.  Propose hypothesis
2.  Wait 5-10 years without testing hypothesis
3.  Rename hypothesis
4.  Wait 5-10 years without testing hypothesis
5.  Rename hypothesis

ad infinitum

--------------
"For everything else, there's Mastertard"

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 1968
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,22:06   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 09 2006,17:56)
The use of "Rate My Professor" as a tool on UD to diss people is a bit ironic, given the entries there for William Dembski.

Finance?!!

I agree that the site isn't the best way to measure a professor's courses.

Bob

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Wonderpants



Posts: 115
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 09 2006,22:07   

Quote (Tiax @ June 09 2006,15:27)
You'd think that the big ruckus that went on in Dover about the Pandas text with subtle name changes from creationism to ID would teach Dembski not to openly discuss these things.  Of course, maybe he still believes ID won't need another name change in a few years.

Luckily no one on UD, even Dembski, is too bright. Just look at the way they keep letting slip what their agenda is (rants about atheists, the first amendment being the only thing stopping ID from replacing evolution) despite doth protesting too much that it's not religion. If they ever wised up, we might have a problem.

--------------
Fundamentalism in a nutshell:
"There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

  
stevestory



Posts: 8884
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 10 2006,07:16   

Publicly suggesting another name change, which didn't work the last time and would die even harder the next time, might be Dembski just having fun with that gaggle of idiots. Maybe he's having a laugh at how dumb they are.

   
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