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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
fnxtr



Posts: 2110
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2012,22:47   

He's moving his family to Iowa... where's he going?

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1476
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 27 2012,22:51   

Quote (fnxtr @ June 27 2012,22:47)
He's moving his family to Iowa... where's he going?

The DI has started a new service - the Witless Protection Program.



Edited by Lou FCD on June 29 2012,19:23

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JoeG: And by eating the cake you are consuming the information- some stays with you and the rest is waste.

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,00:47   

Quote (Patrick @ June 27 2012,18:38)
Quote (Doc Bill @ June 27 2012,16:30)
Over at Evo Snooze, old Dembski dropped that he's moving his family to Iowa.

Hmmm, I thought he had a new job at Bubba's Bible Kollege, Hair Care and Tire Emporium in North Carolina.

Change o' plans?

You neglected to mention just how badly he must have gotten spanked by Miller in that conference.

"I didn't quit from Dover, I was fired!"

Could it be that he sees his increasing irrelevance as ID continues to fade?

Ah, well, more on that later I hope!  My friend and no relation, author John Farrell, was at the conference and "witnessed" in a non-Biblical fashion the entire fracas.

Should be some fun when John, Ken Miller and Barbara Forrest put their notes together about Dembski's narrative.

More fun than a barrel of Luskins, as they say.

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,05:25   

Dembski at Evolution New and Views:  
Quote
So what were Miller's out-of-context quotes and fabrications?

he presented my "Vise Strategy," which was a tongue-in-cheek interrogation manual for cross-examining Darwinists, as a serious document and then claimed that in the Dover trial he had in fact been subjected to the Vise and had answered all serious objections to Darwinism described by the strategy.

Dembski on Uncommon Descent in the The Vise Strategy Revisited thread:  
Quote
I wrote up the Vise Strategy for the Thomas More Law Center to assist them in interrogating the expert witnesses on the other side

Dr. Dr. D. has a very convenient memory.

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,05:26   

Quote (Doc Bill @ June 27 2012,15:30)
Over at Evo Snooze, old Dembski dropped that he's moving his family to Iowa.

Hmmm, I thought he had a new job at Bubba's Bible Kollege, Hair Care and Tire Emporium in North Carolina.

Change o' plans?

I'm in Wisconsin, right next door to Iowa.

There goes the neighborhood.

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,05:30   

Dembski has a whine fest:
 
Quote
Miller devoted about twenty minutes of the talk to going after me personally, lifting dated (2005 and 2006) and out-of-context quotes from the UncommonDescent.com blog and trying to discredit me with some outright fabrications (I'll elaborate momentarily).

It's funny how using somebody's own words is now forbidden. And everything about ID is dated because nothing new has happened! And Dembski claims that some of that content was tongue in cheek - the problem is Dr Dr Dembski that it's impossible to tell the difference from "serious" to "joke" at UD because it's all a joke anyway!
 
Quote
So embracing materialism as he did demonstrates either a shameful disrespect for language or a breathtaking philosophical naiveté.

Pot, kettle?
 
Quote
And before his talk, he came up to me, all smarmy, asking about my recent move to Iowa and showing awareness of an ongoing health problem in my family. All in all it was quite a performance. I had the sense of someone who has no interest in any real conversation, no desire for a real meeting of minds, just wants to set you up and then stick in the knife.

LOL @ "meeting of minds" when they do nothing but avoid that unless the other "mind" already thinks as they do.
 
Quote
So what were Miller's out-of-context quotes and fabrications? I'll focus on just two (his talk was recorded and you should be able to view it online at the Portsmouth Institute website shortly): (1) he claimed I had withdrawn as an expert witness from the Dover v. Kitzmiller trial, with the implication that this represented a lack of willingness on my part to subject intelligent design to critical scrutiny; (2) he presented my "Vise Strategy," which was a tongue-in-cheek interrogation manual for cross-examining Darwinists, as a serious document and then claimed that in the Dover trial he had in fact been subjected to the Vise and had answered all serious objections to Darwinism described by the strategy.

That still burns huh?
 
Quote
In response, let me just say: (1) The public interest law firm that represented the Dover School Board and that had hired me, namely, the Thomas More Law Center, never received or accepted a withdrawal for the case from me. The simple fact is that they fired me -- a fact that was widely publicized. I was to be deposed by the ACLU in Waco for the trial and I was looking forward to it.

Oh? I thought he was fired because he wanted to have his own attorney present during the deposition.
 
Quote
Miller has been proclaiming the death of intelligent design ever since the Dover case as he has been misrepresenting my role in it and using his misrepresentations to discredit my work. The lesson in all this has nothing to do with the actual content of the arguments he makes but rather with the proper strategy with which to engage him and those like him. After approaching me before his talk, all friendly and earnest, he pulls out the knife and goes for the jugular, no mercy. The organizer who had invited me to this event said afterward to me that he wondered how I would get out of the hole that Miller had dug for me, but he thought I handled it very well.

Yes, it's all about the science!
 
Quote
How did I handle it? After being attacked as viciously as I was by Miller, my natural impulse was to open my talk by defending myself against his fabrications.

The guy has as many post-hoc rationalisations as required.
 
Quote
till, to let his misrepresentations stand would have significantly undercut my credibility. So, instead of responding to his attacks on me, I got right into my material (it helped that I had a nice introduction by one of my former math teachers at the school).

LOL. What credibility?

And it's nice that he, again, makes clear that ID is and is only about his chosen god:
 
Quote
My presentation was titled "An Information-Theoretic Proof of God's Existence," in which I showed how the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes, so that if we backtrack this information in time, the amount of information that needs to be accounted for only intensifies. This leads to a regress of information that naturally points to some ultimate source of information. Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? From a naturalistic perspective, such a source remains a mystery. But from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God. I made this argument in a Festschrift volume for Norman Geisler (published with IVP in 2003) and it is implicit in my book No Free Lunch (2001). I chose to speak on this topic because it provides a nice vehicle for introducing many key concepts from intelligent design and also brings in some very classical ideas about the distinction between information and matter on the one hand, and nature and design on the other.

So in No Free Lunch Dembski admits the "designer" was god!

WHAT A SURPRISE!

 
Quote
I suggested that the Thomas More Law Center was incompetent in examining Miller and that if he really wanted put both intelligent design and Darwinian evolution on the intellectual chopping block, he should get together his best three champions, I would get mine, we would each get an attorney or two from a public interest law firm (he, presumably from the ACLU), and then we would have an online dialogue that would continue until all the issues were hashed out.


Yeah. That's one idea. Or alternatively you could, you know, do some science and "hash it out" in the way that everybody else does?

 
Quote
In making this challenge, I was not engaging in a histrionic flourish. I'm perfectly serious. I would propose Michael Behe, Steve Meyer, and myself and would like to have Edward Sisson, who assisted in the Kansas State Board of Education hearings in 2005, guide the interrogation of the Darwinists. I await Miller's proposal laying out his team. As it is, after I laid out this challenge, Miller said nothing, nor did he say anything during the Q&A.


Do some science.

 
Quote
Closing thought: I often tell my students that in the debate over intelligent design, people on the other side are very unlikely to be convinced by anything you say. Your task is not to convince them but rather to speak to those in the middle who are watching the debate and wondering what to make of it. In fact, to say that our task is to convince those in the middle is a bit too strong. Given the hostility of our secular culture to ID, our task is to indicate that ID has more going for it than they previously suspected. As John Angus Campbell, a rhetorician who has done so much to advance ID, once put it, "a draw is a win." If we can continue to win the middle and debunk the overinflated rhetoric of those like Miller who want to claim that ID has collapsed, we'll see our ideas continue to gain traction and eventually win the day.


Delusional fool. ID has collapsed.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1968
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,05:41   

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 27 2012,15:33)


Classic Threads, volume XI:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/darwini....-333750

Hey, who's that in the second row looking like Bob Marks? John Peel?

Oh dear.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,06:31   

William Dembski, No Free Lunch, pg. 314  
Quote
"One of the worries about intelligent design is that it will jettison much of what is accepted in science, and that an “ID-based curriculum” will look very different from current science curricula. Although intelligent design has radical implications for science, I submit that it does not have nearly as radical implications for science education. First off, intelligent design is not a form of anti-evolutionism. Intelligent design does not claim that living things came together suddenly in their present form through the efforts of a supernatural creator. Intelligent design is not and never will be a doctrine of creation."  
 http://www.evolutionnews.org/2012/06/science_and_rel061411.html
 
Quote
From a naturalistic perspective, such a source remains a mystery. But from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God. I made this argument in a Festschrift volume for Norman Geisler (published with IVP in 2003) and it is implicit in my book No Free Lunch (2001).


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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,06:32   

But it's ok DR DR. Just say that lifting dated and out-of-context quotes does not count. Then you can go back all snoozy at your next bible bashin job.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Amadan



Posts: 1244
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,07:39   

Outdated quotes iz teh Bad?

Someone should tell Sal "Darwin Beat a Puppy" Cordova!

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"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4471
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,08:07   

I missed Dembski's claim that he was about to be deposed "by the ACLU" in Waco. Dembski is confused. Vic Walczak (ACLU-PA) was not going to depose Dembski; Stephen Harvey of Pepper Hamilton was going to depose him. TMLC knew all this stuff, why doesn't Dembski?

And if Dembski really looks forward to deposition, just let me know, and I'll see about getting a deposition funded. I'm sure Stephen, Jeff, and I would be up for it. Just make sure to have the box of correspondence from Cambridge University Press in hand for it, OK?

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Richardthughes



Posts: 10094
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,08:49   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 28 2012,08:07)
I missed Dembski's claim that he was about to be deposed "by the ACLU" in Waco. Dembski is confused. Vic Walczak (ACLU-PA) was not going to depose Dembski; Stephen Harvey of Pepper Hamilton was going to depose him. TMLC knew all this stuff, why doesn't Dembski?

And if Dembski really looks forward to deposition, just let me know, and I'll see about getting a deposition funded. I'm sure Stephen, Jeff, and I would be up for it. Just make sure to have the box of correspondence from Cambridge University Press in hand for it, OK?

And I'll pay $100 for front row seating.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,08:51   

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 28 2012,08:49)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 28 2012,08:07)
I missed Dembski's claim that he was about to be deposed "by the ACLU" in Waco. Dembski is confused. Vic Walczak (ACLU-PA) was not going to depose Dembski; Stephen Harvey of Pepper Hamilton was going to depose him. TMLC knew all this stuff, why doesn't Dembski?

And if Dembski really looks forward to deposition, just let me know, and I'll see about getting a deposition funded. I'm sure Stephen, Jeff, and I would be up for it. Just make sure to have the box of correspondence from Cambridge University Press in hand for it, OK?

And I'll pay $100 for front row seating.

$200.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
fnxtr



Posts: 2110
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,09:48   

Two hundred and fifty quatloos!

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"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

  
Patrick



Posts: 549
Joined: July 2011

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,11:44   

Quote (Richardthughes @ June 28 2012,09:49)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 28 2012,08:07)
I missed Dembski's claim that he was about to be deposed "by the ACLU" in Waco. Dembski is confused. Vic Walczak (ACLU-PA) was not going to depose Dembski; Stephen Harvey of Pepper Hamilton was going to depose him. TMLC knew all this stuff, why doesn't Dembski?

And if Dembski really looks forward to deposition, just let me know, and I'll see about getting a deposition funded. I'm sure Stephen, Jeff, and I would be up for it. Just make sure to have the box of correspondence from Cambridge University Press in hand for it, OK?

And I'll pay $100 for front row seating.

I'll pay for a front row seat and contribute to a scholarship fund to ensure that kairosfocus, JoeG, and Upright BiPed can attend.

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,11:50   

Quote
PS: One of the things that truly disgusts me over those who resort to the nastiest personal attack debate tactics that we so often see on the part of objectors to design theory, is their pretence that it is all a nice little intellectual game. Sorry, when you smear, slander, lie and besmirch, it is no longer a game. For those who need a reminder, over at Anti-Evo and other similar fever-swamps of rabid, nihilistic evolutionary materialist ideology, one word: “bydand.”

Guess who? Gordo.

And gordo,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki......._Gordon

 
Quote
BYDAND, n. The motto of the Gordon family; hence, the regimental motto and crest of the Gordon Highlanders. Bydand is the old Sc. pr.p. of Bide, v., and hence means “abiding,” “steadfast.” [?b??d?nd]
   *Bnff.(D) 1918 J. Mitchell Bydand 14:
   Fa wears “Bydand” hauds heech his head.


So, that's you is it Gordon?

I think that needs updating - "coward", "will never admit error". How about that as a motto?

The thing is Gordo, you might have "just one word" for me, but what exactly is it that I'm supposed to be worried about?

What exactly are you going to do? Perhaps you'll write another blog post about me? Or perhaps you'll update your "always linked"?

Or will you get your kilt on and come beat me around the head with a haggis?

What will actually happen, I suspect, is nothing at all. You'll keep reading this, fuming impotently then perhaps writing a comment at UD about how bad I'm going to get it just you wait.

Welcome to the internet Gordo. There's only one thing you can do to show me up and that's to engage me in an argument and prove me wrong.

There is a thread waiting. Waiting for you, you coward.

Stand and fight? Your motto? Don't make me laugh. You'll only fight strawmen. And you'll never advance the battle into enemy territory, it's too scary!


Does weasel latch? George L. Farquhar says hi!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,12:02   

Quote (Patrick @ June 28 2012,11:44)
Quote (Richardthughes @ June 28 2012,09:49)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ June 28 2012,08:07)
I missed Dembski's claim that he was about to be deposed "by the ACLU" in Waco. Dembski is confused. Vic Walczak (ACLU-PA) was not going to depose Dembski; Stephen Harvey of Pepper Hamilton was going to depose him. TMLC knew all this stuff, why doesn't Dembski?

And if Dembski really looks forward to deposition, just let me know, and I'll see about getting a deposition funded. I'm sure Stephen, Jeff, and I would be up for it. Just make sure to have the box of correspondence from Cambridge University Press in hand for it, OK?

And I'll pay $100 for front row seating.

I'll pay for a front row seat and contribute to a scholarship fund to ensure that kairosfocus, JoeG, and Upright BiPed can attend.

Oh heck yeah.  If the entire UD crew shows up, then I will to.  Tell me when and where.  Maybe we can get this done inside a building instead of a parking lot or a cafeteria?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,12:07   

Quote (OgreMkV @ June 28 2012,12:02)
Oh heck yeah.  If the entire UD crew shows up, then I will to.  Tell me when and where.  Maybe we can get this done inside a building instead of a parking lot or a cafeteria?

Then the streams would cross for sure! C'mon, you are a physicist! You should know better!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
N.Wells



Posts: 805
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,14:07   

Quote
(1) The public interest law firm that represented the Dover School Board and that had hired me, namely, the Thomas More Law Center, never received or accepted a withdrawal for the case from me. The simple fact is that they fired me

Is that supposed to be an improvement?

http://dl.dropbox.com/u....UL....ULE.pdf
So, the good Dr Dr is not scheduled to teach any courses at the Southern Evangelical Seminary this fall.

However, according to the SES Newsletter, "Intelligent Design Expert Dr. William Dembski One of Many Notables to Join Southern Evangelical Seminary Faculty: Charlotte, N.C. -  Dr. William Dembski, renowned intelligent design expert, will join the faculty at Southern Evangelical Seminary this August as the Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor of Science and Culture.", so perhaps he is not only not teaching, but doesn't actually have to grace their parking lot with his presence???

Ah, but the press release says, "In addition to teaching, Dembski will be instrumental in the advancement of Southern Evangelical Seminarys Institute of Scientific Apologetics, a relatively new facet of SESs award-winning Apologetics education."  So clearly he's out.  

What's he got going in Iowa?  Does the University of Montserrat have an extension program in corn science in Iowa?

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3553
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,14:28   

Can calling an attorney incompetent be construed as a personal attack?

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1005
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,15:55   

Quote
Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor of Science and Culture


Is that like the Clerow Wilson Junior Research Professor of What's Happenin' Now?

Only funny-peculiar instead of funny-ha-ha.

  
The whole truth



Posts: 979
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,20:56   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ June 28 2012,09:50)
 
Quote
PS: One of the things that truly disgusts me over those who resort to the nastiest personal attack debate tactics that we so often see on the part of objectors to design theory, is their pretence that it is all a nice little intellectual game. Sorry, when you smear, slander, lie and besmirch, it is no longer a game. For those who need a reminder, over at Anti-Evo and other similar fever-swamps of rabid, nihilistic evolutionary materialist ideology, one word: “bydand.”

Guess who? Gordo.

And gordo,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki......._Gordon

     
Quote
BYDAND, n. The motto of the Gordon family; hence, the regimental motto and crest of the Gordon Highlanders. Bydand is the old Sc. pr.p. of Bide, v., and hence means “abiding,” “steadfast.” [?b??d?nd]
   *Bnff.(D) 1918 J. Mitchell Bydand 14:
   Fa wears “Bydand” hauds heech his head.


So, that's you is it Gordon?

I think that needs updating - "coward", "will never admit error". How about that as a motto?

The thing is Gordo, you might have "just one word" for me, but what exactly is it that I'm supposed to be worried about?

What exactly are you going to do? Perhaps you'll write another blog post about me? Or perhaps you'll update your "always linked"?

Or will you get your kilt on and come beat me around the head with a haggis?

What will actually happen, I suspect, is nothing at all. You'll keep reading this, fuming impotently then perhaps writing a comment at UD about how bad I'm going to get it just you wait.

Welcome to the internet Gordo. There's only one thing you can do to show me up and that's to engage me in an argument and prove me wrong.

There is a thread waiting. Waiting for you, you coward.

Stand and fight? Your motto? Don't make me laugh. You'll only fight strawmen. And you'll never advance the battle into enemy territory, it's too scary!


Does weasel latch? George L. Farquhar says hi!

Since gordo constantly smears, slanders, lies, and besmirches anyone who doesn't worship his arrogant, self-righteous ass, and has been doing so for a VERY long time, he should be thoroughly disgusted with HIMSELF. Of course in his pompous, sanctimonious, deceitful, deranged mind it's not a "personal attack" to falsely accuse people of being evil, immoral, amoral, wicked, sinful, and a long list of other derogatory things just because they don't cower and grovel to him and his imaginary god.





Hey gordo, you stinking LIAR, I'm still waiting for you to produce evidence that shows that I threatened you and your family "mafioso style". You're a LIAR gordo, a chronic, blatant, willful, cowardly, disgusting LIAR.

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3553
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,21:22   

I can't help thinking abouts rodents of unusual size when I see the word Monsterrat. Which is what I see.

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
paulmc



Posts: 16
Joined: June 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,21:34   

I have reviewed Chapter 4 of the increasingly painful Science and Human Origins.

It's about junk DNA and attacking Francis Collins. But not really about Science.

I am stoked there is only one chapter left. This book is a dreadful, infuriating read.

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Paul McBride, Darwinist Hero of the Hour -- David Klinghoffer
[T]his is the red flag that tells us what is at stake for our civilisation in these debates -- Kairosfocus (in response to the question: which topic would you like to discuss?)

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3285
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 28 2012,21:37   

Quote (paulmc @ June 28 2012,21:34)
I have reviewed Chapter 4 of the increasingly painful Science and Human Origins.

It's about junk DNA and attacking Francis Collins. But not really about Science.

I am stoked there is only one chapter left. This book is a dreadful, infuriating read.

Good job.  I've been reading your work and I'm glad I don't have to read the dang thing.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
The whole truth



Posts: 979
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2012,02:20   

Quote (paulmc @ June 28 2012,19:34)
I have reviewed Chapter 4 of the increasingly painful Science and Human Origins.

It's about junk DNA and attacking Francis Collins. But not really about Science.

I am stoked there is only one chapter left. This book is a dreadful, infuriating read.

I'm sure that I'm not the only one who realizes that the god zombie IDiots fight against the idea of "junk" DNA because they believe in the 'perfection' of their chosen designer god, and that their perfect god just couldn't and wouldn't create anything that isn't perfect. Creating "junk", or anything 'non-functional', at least in 'faithful' human beings, would be out of the question.

Well, with that in mind, chimps, which are part of the alleged perfect creation, are perfect then, and so are all other organisms that have ever lived, along with everything else in the universe since it was all allegedly created by their perfect designer god. And since absolutely everything was/is perfectly created by their perfect god, and there is no "junk", the god zombie IDiots shouldn't be offended by the concept of common ancestry with chimps or anything else and they shouldn't consider humans to be superior to chimps or anything else.

If everything was/is perfectly created by a perfect designer god, then how can anything be inferior or superior to anything else? Everything would be perfectly equal, but of course that's not the way religious zombies see it. They see humans, or at least themselves, as vastly superior to not only chimps but to everything else in the entire universe. They see the universe and all other life forms as being created just for god zombie humans, to use as supplies, or to abuse, and for whatever needs or selfish desires humans may have. And if something isn't suitable as a supply, or for entertainment, it's a nuisance or a threat that must be the work of the devil.

Maybe the biggest problem they have with "junk" DNA is they will not tolerate the idea that they are or even could be partly "junk". What they really believe is that they are perfect and that no part of them is or could be "junk", or non-functional in any way. In their arrogant minds they are the perfect image of their perfect god. Every DNA molecule in them is perfect. Every atom in them is perfect. Everything in them functions perfectly and has a perfect, designed function. They are flawless and are never in error. If there are any flaws in living things or in the universe it's the fault of non-believing, non-worshiping, non-obedient, non-faithful, Satanic, evil trouble-makers who don't believe in and worship the 'right' god and only those horrible people will suffer the consequences (especially eternally) for their blasphemous thoughts and actions.

According to christian godbots, adam and eve sinned and that caused the subsequent problems in the designer god's perfect creation. Before they sinned everything was allegedly perfect, and I'm sure that the bible thumpers believe that if sinners could be eliminated or 'brought back into the fold' everything would be perfect again. Of course it will be perfect in 'heaven' once all the imperfect sinners and blasphemers are eliminated and sent to hell.

One of the things I find interesting, and irritating, is that godbots often say that all humans are sinful and imperfect, and that only god/jesus are perfect, but they also can't stand, and won't tolerate, any suggestion, implication, or assertion that THEY or their fellow religious zealots are or could be flawed in any way. They say shit like "I'm not perfect, just forgiven." but they say a lot of other things to the contrary and ACT as though they are perfect.

The word "junk" really bothers them. "Junk" implies waste, flaws, uselessness, no value, mistakes, sloppiness, deliberate imperfection, and/or ineptitude, especially when considering 'specially created in the image of a perfect god, by that perfect, omnipotent, omniscient god'. And since they won't tolerate even the slightest implication that their god isn't perfect, or that its special creations aren't perfect, they really like to blame any waste, imperfections, sin, etc., on the imaginary adam and eve or the devil or whatever/whoever else is convenient, even though, according to their own dogma, their perfect god created EVERYTHING, which includes adam, eve, the so-called devil, sin, flaws, waste, etc., etc., etc.

Have any of you ever seen an IDiot arguing that there's NO junk DNA in a slug, or a maggot, or a petunia, or a fungus? How about a chimp?

I seriously doubt that they would be offended at the suggestion, or even absolute proof, of there being "junk" DNA in 'lower life forms'. It's all about humans, well, the special-ness of 'faithful', 'chosen' humans that is.



ETA: special

Edited by The whole truth on June 29 2012,01:03

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
The whole truth



Posts: 979
Joined: Jan. 2012

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2012,03:36   

By the way, if any IDiots want to show that I could be wrong about it being about the special-ness of humans, or at least 'faithful', 'chosen' humans, I'll be looking forward to your soon to be published, multi-IDiot-authored, strictly scientific book, titled 'Science and maggot origins', with nothing at all about humans or religious beliefs mentioned, and chapters devoted to there being no "junk" DNA in slugs, petunias, and fungi.

Hey joe g, since I'm sure that you're reading this, why don't you publish a book on science and tick origins?

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Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. - Jesus in Matthew 10:34

But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. -Jesus in Luke 19:27

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1663
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2012,04:01   

Denyse has come up with a Salvador-worthy remark.  

VJ Torley has an article on UD, Beyond a Joke, where he fills in some details on ACE (Accellerated Christian Education) and their textbooks, which are now elegible for government funds in Louisiana.  They are the ones who said that the Loch Ness Monster is real and a dinosaur.

Basically, ACE is much worse than you've heard and VJ is properly shocked.  He gets a lot of information from a guy named Jonny Scaramanga, a Brit who endured four years at an ACE school before a nervous breakdown bought his freedom.  Wonder of Wonders, VJ even gives a link to Jonny's testimony on, of all places, Pharyngula!

VJ also gives a lot of other unsavory detail about ACE - their support of Apartheid, their flattering info on the Klan, etc.  (I don't think VJ realizes how much of a political power the KKK was in turn of the 20th century America.  I've seen a picture of a KKK parade through the streets of my Wisconsin city in the early 20th century, for instance.  The Klansmen were in full regalia, including hoods, and the first ranks of the parade consisted of uniformed policemen!)

Anyway, VJ has printed a good story about one of the major publishers supplying Christian schools and home schoolers.

Denyse, who brought ACE up in the first place and who didn't seem to believe it was real, then blows herself out of the water with the first reply:          
Quote
Good work, Torley! In a back-handed way, it shows the value of school vouchers. If vouchers weren’t involved, it wouldn’t have come to public attention in the same way.

Thank God for vouchers!  How else would we learn about Christian nastiness?

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1968
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2012,07:09   

Quote
Have any of you ever seen an IDiot arguing that there's NO junk DNA in a slug, or a maggot, or a petunia, or a fungus? How about a chimp?

I seriously doubt that they would be offended at the suggestion, or even absolute proof, of there being "junk" DNA in 'lower life forms'. It's all about humans, well, the special-ness of 'faithful', 'chosen' humans that is.

I remember DaveScot suggesting that junk DNA might be involved with creating consciousness. I used mildew as my counter-example. :-)

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Kattarina98



Posts: 1255
Joined: Sep. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: June 29 2012,07:29   

Summertime - when newsworthy topics get scarce and journalists have to scrape the bottom of the barrel ...

DeNews brings the dregs straight to UD:
 
Quote
Remember serial killer Jeffrey Dahmer? Darwinism played a role in his crimes too


... Add this one to the files about the Darwin-driven Columbine shooter and Finnish school shooter. And Norwegian mass murder Anders Breivik, who tumbled a generous dollop of Darwin in with the Norse gods …


Click for bottom of barrel

Edited spelling and vocabulary

Edited by Kattarina98 on June 29 2012,08:16

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Barry Arrington is a bitch.

  
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