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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 4, Fostering a Greater Understanding of IDC< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:09   

He's doubling down on dictatorship.

Look at the difference between UD and The Skeptical Zone -

The lawyers and preachers at UD are streamlining ways to silence other opinions and reinforce group control, the scientists and philosophers at TSZ are having a very technical and enlightened conversation about TLC.

Night and day - in that order.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Freddie



Posts: 365
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:11   

Quote (REC @ Feb. 14 2012,14:57)
Quote
Petrushka February 14, 2012 at 2:37 pm
I accept the definitional foundation of logic.

I also accept the findings of physics which make the concept of physical existence rather complicated. That just means that physical is not the same as the ideal, just as a physical circle is not an ideal circle.

I thought this was something generally agreed upon. I thought it was the foundation of Plato’s thought.

But to answer the specific question, in formal logic, the moon cannot both exist and not exist.

The question faced by physics is somewhat different.

UD Moderator: That’s not “no” Petrushka. Goodbye.


<a href="URL=http://tinyurl.com/7zx6tgg" target="_blank">Wow</a>

Is it still Friday somewhere?

Looks like that's the final nail in the UD coffin.  They'll be laughing in the streets of Dover tonight ...

--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:18   

Maybe those who fail the loyalty test can simply wear the star of David as their avatars? That will make life easier for Thinkpol.

http://wiki.answers.com/Q...._Jewish

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:19   

Technically speaking, Petrushka is more of a marionette than a puppet.

But can it be both at the same time in the same sense?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:22   

Quote
5
ben hFebruary 14, 2012 at 3:17 pm

How about this for a new policy. Why don’t you just answer for them since you have no interest in what they actually have to say and will brook no nuance in the answer. You aren’t interested in finding any truths, you are just interested in scoring cheap rhetorical points. For shamre.

I am sure you will delete this comment. Have at it. I came here as an interested observer and since this is probably the last comment you will allow of mine (not that I was ever much of a participant), I will leave disallusioned.

I will however pray that God grant you the wisdom to see how your behavior is viewed by others.


--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 14 2012,15:19)
Technically speaking, Petrushka is more of a marionette than a puppet.

But can it be both at the same time in the same sense?

'Muppet' is my favourite portmanteau.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Henry J



Posts: 4015
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:22   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Feb. 14 2012,14:19)
Technically speaking, Petrushka is more of a marionette than a puppet.

But can it be both at the same time in the same sense?

Only if there's no strings attached.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:26   

Bitter Arrington:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-420380

Quote
6Barry ArringtonFebruary 14, 2012 at 3:22 pm
ben h, “yes” or “no,” can the moon exist and not exist at the same time and in the same formal relation?



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Freddie



Posts: 365
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:33   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 14 2012,15:26)
Bitter Arrington:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-420380

Quote
6Barry ArringtonFebruary 14, 2012 at 3:22 pm
ben h, “yes” or “no,” can the moon exist and not exist at the same time and in the same formal relation?


Dum Dum Dum ... another one bites the dust!

Quote
UD Moderator: That’s not “no” rhampton7. Goodbye.


--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4234
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:40   

BarryA:
 
Quote
...For that reason, I am today announcing a new moderation policy at UD.

What was the old policy?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Freddie



Posts: 365
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:40   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 14 2012,15:33)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 14 2012,15:26)
Bitter Arrington:

http://www.uncommondescent.com/intelli....-420380

   
Quote
6Barry ArringtonFebruary 14, 2012 at 3:22 pm
ben h, “yes” or “no,” can the moon exist and not exist at the same time and in the same formal relation?


Dum Dum Dum ... another one bites the dust!

 
Quote
UD Moderator: That’s not “no” rhampton7. Goodbye.

And another one's gone and another one's gone ... another one bites the dust!

 
Quote
Guess what? I answer the same way as Petrushka. How about that Horatio Barry?

UD Moderator: That’s not “no” ben h. Goodbye.


--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Ptaylor



Posts: 879
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:42   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 15 2012,08:33)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 14 2012,15:26)

Dum Dum Dum ... another one bites the dust!

 
Quote
UD Moderator: That’s not “no” rhampton7. Goodbye.

And:
UD Moderator: That’s not “no” ben h. Goodbye.

--------------
“To surrender to ignorance and call it God has always been premature, and it remains premature today.” - Isaac Asimov

"Grow up, assface" - Joe G., grown up ID spokesperson, Sandwalk, April 2014

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:42   

i would hate to be in his house tonight, i imagine he breaks something or somebody smaller

LMFAAAAAAAO

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:43   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 14 2012,15:40)
And another one's gone and another one's gone ... another one bites the dust!

   
Quote
Guess what? I answer the same way as Petrushka. How about that Horatio Barry?

UD Moderator: That’s not “no” ben h. Goodbye.

LOL. I think he just called Barry ignorant.

 
Quote

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
      - William Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act 1 scene 5


--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Freddie



Posts: 365
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:46   

Somewhere in the middle of all that there was a post by Timbo that I missed a screencap on but has since been disappeared.  I remember it was not particularly complementary, anyone catch it?

I wonder if Timbo has been similarly disappeared?

--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:49   

Quote (JohnW @ Feb. 14 2012,11:47)
   
Quote (Patrick @ Feb. 14 2012,09:30)
     
Quote (The whole truth @ Feb. 14 2012,09:50)
Just think, this unscrupulous, deluded shyster could someday be a judge:

arrington's idea of overwhelming evidence and FACT

You mean stuff like this:
     
Quote
“The problem here is that after 2,000 years, it is impossible to prove something like, say, the resurrection.”

Well, it depends on what you are willing to accept for proof. If you are willing to accept the overwhelming historical record, including hundreds of eyewitnesses, then yes the resurrection can be proved beyond a reasonable doubt.

followed by this:
     
Quote
I never said we have the testimony of hundreds of eyewitnesses. I said the record states there were hundreds of eyewitnesses.

A record written decades after the alleged events by persons unknown with political axes to grind, Barry?  This is what passes for evidence in Colorado courts?

So... if I say a thousand people saw Arrington raping a duck, that's exactly the same as a thousand people saying they saw him raping a duck.  Good to know.

 
Quote
That record, which was written during the living memory of those who saw the events in question, is the only record we have, and there is no good reason to disregard it.

Apparently it helps if you make your claim during the lifetime of the alleged witnesses of the alleged duck-raping episode.

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
JohnW



Posts: 2209
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:50   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 14 2012,13:40)
BarryA:
 
Quote
...For that reason, I am today announcing a new moderation policy at UD.

What was the old policy?

Whenever we feel like it, for no reason at all.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Freddie



Posts: 365
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:53   

Bwahahahaha - collateral damage?  
Quote
11
ScottAndrews2
February 14, 2012 at 3:38 pm

It’s been fun, but I’m not comfortable with this. While I agree that it’s absurd to argue that the moon can exist and not exist, I’m not comfortable debating someone if they are required to humiliate themselves by repeating a one-word answer. I understand the reason, but it feels too much like submission, like staring a dog in the eyes until it looks down. But I’ll keep reading all the excellent posts and comments.
   
Quote
Can the moon exist and not exist at the same time and in the same formal relation?

Yes.


--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:53   

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....thought

Quote
...

Contemporary developmentsThe law of non-contradiction is denied by paraconsistent logic. The law of the excluded middle is denied by intuitionistic logic. Thus, two of Aristotle's laws of thought, which were once considered indubitable, are today openly doubted.



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:55   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 14 2012,15:06)
so barry has distilled the arbiter of UDiness down to a nonsense proposition

Well, it is what he, and StephenB, do best.  It is pretty much how they always operate. Set up a question, but only accept answers that they are prepared to argue against.  God forbid anyone with more knowledge shows up and doesn't provide one the predefined answers.  

They are too ignorant to answer arguments about the implications of quantum mechanics, so they refuse to accept any discussion of it.  And if people refuse to play their loaded games, they throw a little hissy fit and ban them.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4234
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:56   

Make room new atheists. It's a WAR on the new dialetheists.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
JohnW



Posts: 2209
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,15:59   

The peasants are revolting!
Quote
11 ScottAndrews2 February 14, 2012 at 3:38 pm
It’s been fun, but I’m not comfortable with this. While I agree that it’s absurd to argue that the moon can exist and not exist, I’m not comfortable debating someone if they are required to humiliate themselves by repeating a one-word answer. I understand the reason, but it feels too much like submission, like staring a dog in the eyes until it looks down. But I’ll keep reading all the excellent posts and comments.

Quote
Can the moon exist and not exist at the same time and in the same formal relation?


Yes.

After he's done reading all the excellent posts and comments Barry allows, I wonder what Scott's going to do with the other 86400 seconds in the day?

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4234
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:02   

AtBC needs a qualifying question too. Candidates? I'll start:

Can a one-legged frog kick the seeds off a dill pickle?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Freddie



Posts: 365
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:04   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 14 2012,16:02)
AtBC needs a qualifying question too. Candidates? I'll start:

Can a one-legged frog kick the seeds off a dill pickle?

Errr ... aren't you supposed to also give us a list of the approved answers?

--------------
Joe: Most criticisims of ID stem from ignorance and jealousy.
Joe: As for the authors of the books in the Bible, well the OT was authored by Moses and the NT was authored by various people.
Byers: The eskimo would not need hairy hair growth as hair, I say, is for keeping people dry. Not warm.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4234
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:05   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 14 2012,17:04)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 14 2012,16:02)
AtBC needs a qualifying question too. Candidates? I'll start:

Can a one-legged frog kick the seeds off a dill pickle?

Errr ... aren't you supposed to also give us a list of the approved answers?

Bzzzzzt. Wrong question. You're outta here.

Next?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10080
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:06   

Errrrr
ErrrrRRRrrrr.
ERRRRRRRRRRRR.

*shakes uncontrollably*

"JESUS???"

This from the folks that brought you "witches float, innocents drown"©

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:07   

Quote (Freddie @ Feb. 14 2012,16:04)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 14 2012,16:02)
AtBC needs a qualifying question too. Candidates? I'll start:

Can a one-legged frog kick the seeds off a dill pickle?

Errr ... aren't you supposed to also give us a list of the approved answers?

"Fish."


[Edited to restore the post I thought wasn't showing up due the the paging bug but which apparently just went off into the ether somewhere to be alone.]

Edited by noncarborundum on Feb. 14 2012,16:11

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4234
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:09   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 14 2012,17:06)
Errrrr
ErrrrRRRrrrr.
ERRRRRRRRRRRR.

*shakes uncontrollably*

"JESUS???"

This from the folks that brought you "witches float, innocents drown"©

Bzzzzt. Low and outside. Yer out!!!!!

Next?

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:10   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Feb. 14 2012,16:02)
AtBC needs a qualifying question too. Candidates? I'll start:

Can a one-legged frog kick the seeds off a dill pickle?

HA HA THIS IS YOU (AND BARRY)



--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
eigenstate



Posts: 76
Joined: Nov. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 14 2012,16:10   

ScottAndrews2 should be credited with showing some courage and clear thinking here:

 
Quote

It’s been fun, but I’m not comfortable with this. While I agree that it’s absurd to argue that the moon can exist and not exist, I’m not comfortable debating someone if they are required to humiliate themselves by repeating a one-word answer. I understand the reason, but it feels too much like submission, like staring a dog in the eyes until it looks down. But I’ll keep reading all the excellent posts and comments.

 
Quote

Can the moon exist and not exist at the same time and in the same formal relation?


Yes.


I take it he is answering Yes because that's what he really thinks, not because he has been put in a vice by a blog admin.

But he gets to a basic problem for Barry's behavior. I didn't expect to see anything like this come up (ben h deserves some knucks for pushing back, too -- he's just new enough that I'm not sure where he's coming from... could be a sock, etc.) from the pro-ID regulars.

OnEdit: JohnW beat me to the punch on SA2, I see

Edited by eigenstate on Feb. 14 2012,16:15

  
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