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fnxtr



Posts: 2501
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 05 2014,18:49   

Quote (stevestory @ Aug. 05 2014,11:02)
Quote

What I found equally interesting, though, is Stephen Meyer’s remarks about the direction of Discovery’s Science and Culture research. He believes that the basic argument against neo-Darwinism has been won in the peer-reviewed literature, though not in the popular literature such as Cosmos. He based this on recent articles by people like Koonin and Shapiro, plus the formation of the Third Way group. The math is simply overwhelming standard evolutionary explanations.


as usual, the question becomes, delusional, or liar?

Not necessarily an XOR function.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 363
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2014,00:10   

Quote (sparc @ Aug. 05 2014,14:08)
EN&V display photographs from the trip.



EN&V...Bad at math or seeing things that aren't there?

You be the judge.

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

"You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

  
sparc



Posts: 1959
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2014,05:17   

Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Aug. 06 2014,00:10)
   
Quote (sparc @ Aug. 05 2014,14:08)
EN&V display photographs from the trip.



EN&V...Bad at math or seeing things that aren't there?

You be the judge.
Some people just count differently. I guess they count four persons in the picture below too.


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
k.e..



Posts: 3809
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2014,08:58   

Quote (sparc @ Aug. 06 2014,13:17)
Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Aug. 06 2014,00:10)
   
Quote (sparc @ Aug. 05 2014,14:08)
EN&V display photographs from the trip.



EN&V...Bad at math or seeing things that aren't there?

You be the judge.
Some people just count differently. I guess they count four persons in the picture below too.

Hahaha

Quote
Once, Stalin met a delegation of workers from the Urals. When the workers left, Stalin looked around for his pipe but did not see it. He called Beria and said, ‘Lavrentiy, my pipe disappeared after the visit of those workers.’
‘Yes, Yosif Vissarionovich, I'll immediately take proper measures.’
Ten minutes later, Stalin pulled out a drawer in his desk and saw his pipe. He struck a match, puffed out a ring of smoke, and dialed Beria's number.
‘Lavrentiy, my pipe's been found.’
‘What a pity," Beria said. "All of them have just confessed.’


--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Henry J



Posts: 4603
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2014,10:52   

Maybe the person taking the picture was included in the list?

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2014,12:18   

Shhhhhhhh, George is invisible.

  
rossum



Posts: 228
Joined: Dec. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 06 2014,16:21   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Aug. 06 2014,12:18)
Shhhhhhhh, George is invisible.

So, the DI's big secret is finally out.  Their invisible designer is ... George Gilliand! :D

--------------
The ultimate truth is that there is no ultimate truth.

  
k.e..



Posts: 3809
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 08 2014,00:25   

Quote (rossum @ Aug. 07 2014,00:21)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Aug. 06 2014,12:18)
Shhhhhhhh, George is invisible.

So, the DI's big secret is finally out.  Their invisible designer is ... George Gilliand! :D

Skip George? Could be a family thing.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
DiEb



Posts: 271
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 14 2014,03:07   

On Aug 13, 2014, Dr. Dembski gave a talk in the University of Chicago's Computations in Science Seminars, titled "Conservation of Information in Evolutionary Search".

Jerry Coyne's warnings fell on deaf ears, and it seems that the event enfolded as everyone of us has feared: Dembski made his speech to an uninformed audience which didn't know how much of his ideas have been already refuted.

Evolution News & Views is over the moon: Even I as a foreigner can see how badly written its article Dembski Speaks at the University of Chicago; Mathematician Leo Kadanoff Says Darwinists Need to "Deal with These Questions" is, perhaps because it was penned in haste by its anonymous author (Dembski himself?).

Leo Kadanoff's phrase is not only quoted in the title, but twice in the article:

"I think the ball is in the court of people who believe in evolution. They have to deal with these questions. ...Bill has made his case and we should all go home and think."

" Dr. Kadanoff, a member of the National Academic [sic] of Sciences, says Darwinists need "to deal with these questions" raised by a leading intelligent-design theorist. The ball is in their court."

Unfortunately we don't get any of the question of the Q&A section other than this summary the talk itself and the Q&A afterward, which were at a pretty high level, went very well. There were no disruptions, and Dembski handled the questions from the audience with his accustomed ease.

I'd love to hear from anyone who attended the talk - other than Dr. Dembski...

Edited by DiEb on Aug. 14 2014,09:08

   
DiEb



Posts: 271
Joined: May 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2014,00:52   

Quelle surprise! Leo Kadanoff's phrase is becoming a new favorite at EN&V: while complaining that a couple of five-star reviews of Stephen Meyer's book "Darwin's Doubt" was taken down by amazon (as part of the great Darwinistic conspiracy), the unknown author states:
Quote
No words could be more appropriate than those of Coyne's University of Chicago colleague, mathematician Leo Kadanoff, in thanking William Dembski for his presentation there yesterday:
Quote
I think the ball is in the court of people who believe in evolution. They have to deal with these questions. ...Bill [Dembski] has made his case and we should all go home and think.
So...that was yesterday, and hours later someone is trying to sweep the positive reviews off the Amazon page for Darwin's Doubt. No doubt a coincidence.

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 15 2014,08:38   

Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 15 2014,00:52)
Quelle surprise! Leo Kadanoff's phrase is becoming a new favorite at EN&V: while complaining that a couple of five-star reviews of Stephen Meyer's book "Darwin's Doubt" was taken down by amazon (as part of the great Darwinistic conspiracy), the unknown author states:
 
Quote
No words could be more appropriate than those of Coyne's University of Chicago colleague, mathematician Leo Kadanoff, in thanking William Dembski for his presentation there yesterday:
Quote
I think the ball is in the court of people who believe in evolution. They have to deal with these questions. ...Bill [Dembski] has made his case and we should all go home and think.
So...that was yesterday, and hours later someone is trying to sweep the positive reviews off the Amazon page for Darwin's Doubt. No doubt a coincidence.

In other words, they still don't understand the concepts of "burden of proof", "science", and "supporting evidence".

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
stevestory



Posts: 10212
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 16 2014,07:35   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Aug. 15 2014,09:38)
Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 15 2014,00:52)
Quelle surprise! Leo Kadanoff's phrase is becoming a new favorite at EN&V: while complaining that a couple of five-star reviews of Stephen Meyer's book "Darwin's Doubt" was taken down by amazon (as part of the great Darwinistic conspiracy), the unknown author states:
 
Quote
No words could be more appropriate than those of Coyne's University of Chicago colleague, mathematician Leo Kadanoff, in thanking William Dembski for his presentation there yesterday:  
Quote
I think the ball is in the court of people who believe in evolution. They have to deal with these questions. ...Bill [Dembski] has made his case and we should all go home and think.
So...that was yesterday, and hours later someone is trying to sweep the positive reviews off the Amazon page for Darwin's Doubt. No doubt a coincidence.

In other words, they still don't understand the concepts of "burden of proof", "science", and "supporting evidence".

Don't be mean you guys! If you take away their mildly supportive anonymously reported sentence from an academic in a different field, what are you leaving them with?!?!?! That's basically their only progress in 20 years.

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2014,11:16   

WTF is *this* shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2014,11:26   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,11:16)
WTF is *this* shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

Looks like a nearly complete collection of creationist memes.... and stupid... lots of stupid.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
N.Wells



Posts: 1736
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2014,11:52   

Quote (k.e.. @ Aug. 08 2014,00:25)
Quote (rossum @ Aug. 07 2014,00:21)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Aug. 06 2014,12:18)
Shhhhhhhh, George is invisible.

So, the DI's big secret is finally out.  Their invisible designer is ... George Gilliand! :D

Skip George? Could be a family thing.

Googling suggests that Skip is George's nickname, so the caption writer presumably wrote both versions and forgot to delete one of them.

  
Amadan



Posts: 1332
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 18 2014,12:26   

Quote (DiEb @ Aug. 14 2014,09:07)
On Aug 13, 2014, Dr. Dembski gave a talk in the University of Chicago's Computations in Science Seminars, titled "Conservation of Information in Evolutionary Search".

Jerry Coyne's warnings fell on deaf ears, and it seems that the event enfolded as everyone of us has feared: Dembski made his speech to an uninformed audience which didn't know how much of his ideas have been already refuted.

Evolution News & Views is over the moon: Even I as a foreigner can see how badly written its article Dembski Speaks at the University of Chicago; Mathematician Leo Kadanoff Says Darwinists Need to "Deal with These Questions" is, perhaps because it was penned in haste by its anonymous author (Dembski himself?).

Leo Kadanoff's phrase is not only quoted in the title, but twice in the article:

"I think the ball is in the court of people who believe in evolution. They have to deal with these questions. ...Bill has made his case and we should all go home and think."

" Dr. Kadanoff, a member of the National Academic [sic] of Sciences, says Darwinists need "to deal with these questions" raised by a leading intelligent-design theorist. The ball is in their court."

Unfortunately we don't get any of the question of the Q&A section other than this summary the talk itself and the Q&A afterward, which were at a pretty high level, went very well. There were no disruptions, and Dembski handled the questions from the audience with his accustomed ease.

I'd love to hear from anyone who attended the talk - other than Dr. Dembski...

Sweepstakes are now open on how long before it's described as 'peer-reviewed'.

I bags 1 week

Edited by Amadan on Aug. 18 2014,18:27

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2501
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,00:00   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,09:16)
WTF is *this*, shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

FTFY.

And yes.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,11:19   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,11:16)
WTF is *this* shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

It's a creationist coprolite.

The author, Alvin Barry, according to the InterWebs died in 2001.  Unfortunately, not taking his ideas with him!

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,11:28   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Aug. 19 2014,11:19)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,11:16)
WTF is *this* shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

It's a creationist coprolite.

The author, Alvin Barry, according to the InterWebs died in 2001.  Unfortunately, not taking his ideas with him!

The Missouri Synod has forwarded my blog post to the  
Quote
theology staff for them to review
.

Which is the entire problem...

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1445
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,13:20   

Quote (Doc Bill @ Aug. 19 2014,11:19)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,11:16)
WTF is *this* shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

It's a creationist coprolite.

The author, Alvin Barry, according to the InterWebs died in 2001.  Unfortunately, not taking his ideas with him!

If a creationist would write something after he/she had died, then I'd be impressed.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
Occam's Aftershave



Posts: 1774
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 19 2014,18:13   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Aug. 19 2014,13:20)
Quote (Doc Bill @ Aug. 19 2014,11:19)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Aug. 18 2014,11:16)
WTF is *this* shit?

http://lcms.org/Documen....id=1103

It's a creationist coprolite.

The author, Alvin Barry, according to the InterWebs died in 2001.  Unfortunately, not taking his ideas with him!

If a creationist would write something after he/she had died, then I'd be impressed.

How about L. Ron Hubbard?  He was still churning out books a good decade after he kicked the bucket.  :D

--------------
"Science is what got us to the humble place we’re at, and what hard-won progress we might realize comes from science, with ID completely flaccid, religious apologetics bitching from the sidelines." - Eigenstate at UD

  
sparc



Posts: 1959
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2014,13:21   

Quote (sparc @ Feb. 11 2014,23:02)
If according to his CV Dembski's sole employment is at the DI why does Faith Bible Church still announce him as �      
Quote
the Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor of Culture and Science at Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, where he helps head its Institute of Scientific Apologetics.
. (dead link in the original)



To a degree their agenda is kind of honest by not only listing pseudoscientific sessions but also        
Quote

Sunday Morning services (9 & 10:40am) at Faith Bible Church
The Return of the God Hypothesis - Dr. Stephen Meyer

Thanks to IDquest you can watch all presentations at youtube.

ETA: including THE WEASEL !!!

I am afraid I could not stand it.
I cannot stand it.

Edited by sparc on Aug. 22 2014,13:30

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
fnxtr



Posts: 2501
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2014,21:19   

Quote (sparc @ Aug. 22 2014,11:21)
Quote (sparc @ Feb. 11 2014,23:02)
If according to his CV Dembski's sole employment is at the DI why does Faith Bible Church still announce him as �        
Quote
the Phillip E. Johnson Research Professor of Culture and Science at Southern Evangelical Seminary in Charlotte, North Carolina, where he helps head its Institute of Scientific Apologetics.
. (dead link in the original)



To a degree their agenda is kind of honest by not only listing pseudoscientific sessions but also        
Quote

Sunday Morning services (9 & 10:40am) at Faith Bible Church
The Return of the God Hypothesis - Dr. Stephen Meyer

Thanks to IDquest you can watch all presentations at youtube.

ETA: including THE WEASEL !!!

I am afraid I could not stand it.
I cannot stand it.

This poster needs to be retitled:

FLOGGING.
The damp space where a dead horse used to be.

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4820
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Aug. 22 2014,22:36   

It's amazing how little Dembski has learned about evolutionary computation since I introduced the phrase "genetic algorithm" to him in 1997.

Dembski goes on about Dawkins' "weasel", but I've never heard him address the example I challenged him with back in 1997, which was to explain how a genetic algorithm could find a close-to-optimal path for the Traveling Salesman Problem given that his stance was that functions and algorithms could not generate information.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
sparc



Posts: 1959
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 01 2014,22:58   

Please note that the DI has updated its webpages. In the course of doing so they have blown up their list of what they claim to be "Peer-Reviewed Articles Supporting Intelligent Design" to a total of 81 pages, no less!
It's not decided yet whether they will print the next edition in pocket bible size or if they will double the font size and the line spacing.

Edited by sparc on Sep. 01 2014,23:02

--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
stevestory



Posts: 10212
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 02 2014,08:30   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 01 2014,23:58)
Please note that the DI has updated its webpages. In the course of doing so they have blown up their list of what they claim to be "Peer-Reviewed Articles Supporting Intelligent Design" to a total of 81 pages, no less!
It's not decided yet whether they will print the next edition in pocket bible size or if they will double the font size and the line spacing.

That's a slick new website! It really makes me want to attend their next conference, so I can pay money to go to Idaho and listen to Casey Luskin discuss origins science!

...said no one ever in history! Seriously, come september 20th I'm gonna want to see some crowd photos.

   
sparc



Posts: 1959
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2014,01:19   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 02 2014,08:30)
     
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 01 2014,23:58)
Please note that the DI has updated its webpages. In the course of doing so they have blown up their list of what they claim to be "Peer-Reviewed Articles Supporting Intelligent Design" to a total of 81 pages, no less!
It's not decided yet whether they will print the next edition in pocket bible size or if they will double the font size and the line spacing.

That's a slick new website! It really makes me want to attend their next conference, so I can pay money to go to Idaho and listen to Casey Luskin discuss origins science!

...said no one ever in history! Seriously, come september 20th I'm gonna want to see some crowd photos.

Just wondering why nowhere on their web pages the DI uses the full name of the place the meeting will take place: It's not just the "Ray and Joan Kroc Center" but rather "The Salvation Army Ray & Joan Kroc Corps Community Center". Maybe it even Discoveroids feel that it sounds somehow inappropriate for something the want to sell as a "Science & Human Origins Conference".

On the other hand they cannot make the center's "What we believe page go away. It says:    
Quote
The Christian Walk
The Christian life is not easy. The Apostle Peter warns us of the sufferings and painful trials that are ahead (1 Peter 4:12). But there is rejoicing to be had because, even in our sufferings, we know that we will be rewarded on the day when Christ returns (2 Timothy 4:7). So spread the word and follow the great commission, telling all creatures (whether you like them or not) of the good news to be had in Christ Jesus (Mark 16:15). Take confidence in knowing that the scriptures are God's word (2 Timothy 3:16) and be ready to give account (1 Peter 3:15). Be strong in your faith for the enemy is cunning and waiting around the corner to strike you down (1 Peter 5:8). Know that there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1) and "as for God, his way is perfect, the word of the Lord is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in Him" (Psalm 18:30).


--------------
"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
stevestory



Posts: 10212
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2014,11:44   

Quote (sparc @ Sep. 03 2014,02:19)
Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 02 2014,08:30)
     
Quote (sparc @ Sep. 01 2014,23:58)
Please note that the DI has updated its webpages. In the course of doing so they have blown up their list of what they claim to be "Peer-Reviewed Articles Supporting Intelligent Design" to a total of 81 pages, no less!
It's not decided yet whether they will print the next edition in pocket bible size or if they will double the font size and the line spacing.

That's a slick new website! It really makes me want to attend their next conference, so I can pay money to go to Idaho and listen to Casey Luskin discuss origins science!

...said no one ever in history! Seriously, come september 20th I'm gonna want to see some crowd photos.

Just wondering why nowhere on their web pages the DI uses the full name of the place the meeting will take place: It's not just the "Ray and Joan Kroc Center" but rather "The Salvation Army Ray & Joan Kroc Corps Community Center". Maybe it even Discoveroids feel that it sounds somehow inappropriate for something the want to sell as a "Science & Human Origins Conference".

On the other hand they cannot make the center's "What we believe page go away. It says:      
Quote
The Christian Walk
The Christian life is not easy. The Apostle Peter warns us of the sufferings and painful trials that are ahead (1 Peter 4:12). But there is rejoicing to be had because, even in our sufferings, we know that we will be rewarded on the day when Christ returns (2 Timothy 4:7). So spread the word and follow the great commission, telling all creatures (whether you like them or not) of the good news to be had in Christ Jesus (Mark 16:15). Take confidence in knowing that the scriptures are God's word (2 Timothy 3:16) and be ready to give account (1 Peter 3:15). Be strong in your faith for the enemy is cunning and waiting around the corner to strike you down (1 Peter 5:8). Know that there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1) and "as for God, his way is perfect, the word of the Lord is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in Him" (Psalm 18:30).

why are you evilutionists always trying to make it about religion? Intelligent Design is a purely scientific field with no connection to creationism.


   
fnxtr



Posts: 2501
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2014,21:37   

Quote (stevestory @ Sep. 03 2014,09:44)
why are you evilutionists always trying to make it about religion? Intelligent Design is a purely scientific field with no connection to creationism.


Which reminds me: whoever used the black helicopter last, you forgot to gas up.  :angry:

--------------
"But it's disturbing to think someone actually thinks creationism -- having put it's hand on the hot stove every day for the last 400 years -- will get a different result tomorrow." -- midwifetoad

"I am in a rush to catch up with science work." -- Gary Gaulin

  
Henry J



Posts: 4603
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Sep. 03 2014,22:27   

Quote
why are you evilutionists always trying to make it about religion? Intelligent Design is a purely scientific field with no connection to creationism.

Amen?

  
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