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Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,15:24   

Joe brings up the fire/arson anology in his latest tardruption.

But how do investigators really do it (If they're forgotten there CSI detecting EFs, that is)?

http://www.uis-usa.com/arson.htm

Quote
Motives
All fires fall into one of three categories: Accidental, Incendiary or Providential. Most fraudulent fires fit into the incendiary category, and where fraudulent fire occurs, a human hand is always involved. Somewhere, perhaps hidden in a maze of seemingly unimportant facts, lies a motive.

Motive may be the first indication of potential arson. Establishment of a motive also aids in identifying a potential or possible suspect. The following seven motives for incendiary fires are routine for fire investigators:

1. Fraud
2. Effort to hide another crime
3. Jealousy
4. Revenge
5. Thrill
   a. Pyromaniac
   b. Juvenile
   c. Sexual
6. Riots / Vandalism
7. Terrorism

Fraudulent fires set to defraud the insurance company are usually motivated by economics. When the corpus delicti of arson has been established, you can expect UIS to seek out and identify the motive for the fire.


Fire Scene "Red Flags" (In order of Priority)
Look for what is there that should not be and for what is not there that
should be.

Large amount of damage
Low burning
Unidentifiable point of origin
No "V" burn patterns present  
Lack of accidental causes
Separate and unconnected fires
Unusual burn patterns and high heat stress
Windows blown away from structure
Evidence of forced entry
Missing inventory
Missing personal items such as photos, bibles, yearbooks, weapons, jewelry
Evidence of a previous fire
Unkempt yard
"For sale" signs
Fuel cans
Fire extending beyond the perimeter of the structure

Claim File "Red Flags" (In order of Priority)

Fires occurring at night
Insured out of town and with solid alibi  
Recently issued policy
Recent endorsement to policy
Insured overly pushy
Insured very familiar with insurance terms  
Insured behind on mortgage payments
Previous claims by insured
Hand-delivered proof of loss
Fires occurring close to expiration date of policy
Over-insured property  
Property for sale
List of out-of-state suppliers  
Many antiques claimed as destroyed  
Sprinkler system recently de-activated
Alarm system not set
Recent decline in utility use  
Business or liquor license lost by insured
Lease with fire-termination clause
Company needing to upgrade old equipment  
Stock becoming obsolete (shoes, clothing, food products)


I don't see much ruling out chance going on. It's all about motive. So ID tards, tell us all about the designer, and what he was thinking when he made AIDS.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,15:30   

proof that he was thinking of you, big guy!

And zucchinis are proof that Teh Deisner was thinking of JoeG's cavernous bung

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 10762
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,15:32   

To be fair, they do hav e"Lack of accidental causes" 5th on one of the lists. CSI My-hammy.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Sol3a1



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,15:49   

Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Feb. 18 2011,15:30)
proof that he was thinking of you, big guy!

And zucchinis are proof that Teh Deisner was thinking of JoeG's cavernous bung

The way you guys keep reaming him, I think teh Designer made watermelons for that reason

  
JohnW



Posts: 2839
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,16:00   

Quote (Sol3a1 @ Feb. 18 2011,13:49)
Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Feb. 18 2011,15:30)
proof that he was thinking of you, big guy!

And zucchinis are proof that Teh Deisner was thinking of JoeG's cavernous bung

The way you guys keep reaming him, I think teh Designer made watermelons for that reason

No - that was to house ticks.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 370
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,20:07   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 18 2011,12:07)
Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Feb. 18 2011,13:04)
† †
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2011,15:35)
....you ignorant ball of puss.

Awesome, a mere two words separate Joe calling someone else ignorant, from his demonstration of being unable to spell "pus".

I love it so!

typo

Hmmm...a typo?

Not really little JoeyG, since you misspell it the same way a mere 11 posts later.

Ya see...a typo is like typing "muttion" instead of "mutation" and does not involve repeating the same error, unless you happen to type teh word "the" dyslexically a few times.

Please stop acting the aggrieved 2 year old and have the cojones to admit to a simple error of ignorance in spelling.

ETA: Not that I'd waste any more time looking through previous posts than I already waste, but I would bet little JoeyG has experienced the same "typo" before.

--------------
"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

"You could always wrap fresh fish in the paper you publish it on, though, and sell that." - Field Man on how to find value in Gary Gaulin's real-science "theory"

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,21:40   

if there is, carlson could find it.  by god.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,22:50   

Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Feb. 18 2011,20:07)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 18 2011,12:07)
†  
Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Feb. 18 2011,13:04)
† †
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2011,15:35)
....you ignorant ball of puss.

Awesome, a mere two words separate Joe calling someone else ignorant, from his demonstration of being unable to spell "pus".

I love it so!

typo

Hmmm...a typo?

Not really little JoeyG, since you misspell it the same way a mere 11 posts later.

Ya see...a typo is like typing "muttion" instead of "mutation" and does not involve repeating the same error, unless you happen to type teh word "the" dyslexically a few times.

Please stop acting the aggrieved 2 year old and have the cojones to admit to a simple error of ignorance in spelling.

ETA: Not that I'd waste any more time looking through previous posts than I already waste, but I would bet little JoeyG has experienced the same "typo" before.

Maybe he intended to include a "y" on the end?  I'm not sure how you get that into a ball, but, hey, I'm sure there's some Russian doing it if you look hard enough.

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 18 2011,23:13   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 18 2011,15:24)
Joe brings up the fire/arson anology in his latest tardruption.

But how do investigators really do it (If they're forgotten there CSI detecting EFs, that is)?

http://www.uis-usa.com/arson.htm

Quote
Motives
All fires fall into one of three categories: Accidental, Incendiary or Providential. Most fraudulent fires fit into the incendiary category, and where fraudulent fire occurs, a human hand is always involved. Somewhere, perhaps hidden in a maze of seemingly unimportant facts, lies a motive.

Motive may be the first indication of potential arson. Establishment of a motive also aids in identifying a potential or possible suspect. The following seven motives for incendiary fires are routine for fire investigators:

1. Fraud
2. Effort to hide another crime
3. Jealousy
4. Revenge
5. Thrill
† †a. Pyromaniac
† †b. Juvenile
† †c. Sexual
6. Riots / Vandalism
7. Terrorism

Fraudulent fires set to defraud the insurance company are usually motivated by economics. When the corpus delicti of arson has been established, you can expect UIS to seek out and identify the motive for the fire.


Fire Scene "Red Flags" (In order of Priority)
Look for what is there that should not be and for what is not there that
should be.

Large amount of damage
Low burning
Unidentifiable point of origin
No "V" burn patterns present †
Lack of accidental causes
Separate and unconnected fires
Unusual burn patterns and high heat stress
Windows blown away from structure
Evidence of forced entry
Missing inventory
Missing personal items such as photos, bibles, yearbooks, weapons, jewelry
Evidence of a previous fire
Unkempt yard
"For sale" signs
Fuel cans
Fire extending beyond the perimeter of the structure

Claim File "Red Flags" (In order of Priority)

Fires occurring at night
Insured out of town and with solid alibi †
Recently issued policy
Recent endorsement to policy
Insured overly pushy
Insured very familiar with insurance terms †
Insured behind on mortgage payments
Previous claims by insured
Hand-delivered proof of loss
Fires occurring close to expiration date of policy
Over-insured property †
Property for sale
List of out-of-state suppliers †
Many antiques claimed as destroyed †
Sprinkler system recently de-activated
Alarm system not set
Recent decline in utility use †
Business or liquor license lost by insured
Lease with fire-termination clause
Company needing to upgrade old equipment †
Stock becoming obsolete (shoes, clothing, food products)


I don't see much ruling out chance going on. It's all about motive. So ID tards, tell us all about the designer, and what he was thinking when he made AIDS.

So again no examples of chance errors being able to produce complexity?  You dipshits don't have any evidence so you attack ID proponents with your ignorant babblings.

Just because you don't understand arson investigation doesn't mean arson investigators aren't supporting ID every time they do their jobs.

Oh, and:

puss.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5402
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,00:52   

Poor Joey.

Still stupid as fuck.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,07:18   

On a similar theme to a recent post in another thread, Joe inspired me to post this image:



Stop making the kitty sad, Joe. Why do you have to make the kitty sad?

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Seversky



Posts: 441
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,07:52   

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 19 2011,07:18)
On a similar theme to a recent post in another thread, Joe inspired me to post this image:



Stop making the kitty sad, Joe. Why do you have to make the kitty sad?

Louis

Well, that does it!

I really couldn't care less that Joe is an anti-evolution blowhard.

But when he makes kitties sad that is totally beyond the pale.

If there is any justice in this Universe (which there doesn't appear to be) there should be a special Circle in Hell reserved for such people where they are forced to clean out the litter boxes for all Eternity.

  
Sol3a1



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,09:09   

Quote (Seversky @ Feb. 19 2011,07:52)
If there is any justice in this Universe (which there doesn't appear to be) there should be a special Circle in Hell reserved for such people where they are forced to clean out the litter boxes for all Eternity.

I always thought they were the things my cats left "in" the kitty box after "nature's call"

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,12:30   

I'll just leave this here.



"Healthy sexual relationship" did not turn up once.

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,13:08   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 19 2011,12:30)
I'll just leave this here.



"Healthy sexual relationship" did not turn up once.

To be fair, you can have a healthy sexual relationship with just dick and balls, even if they are on the same person...but somehow, I don't see Joe even having a healthy relationship with himself.

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,13:50   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 19 2011,18:30)
I'll just leave this here.



"Healthy sexual relationship" did not turn up once.

So Joe is all about the dick and balls?

I have spoken to the gay community. They object most strenuously. One particularly unhappy member asked if we heterosexuals could take him. I spoke for all of us, I hope you don't mind, and said no. That means Joe is forced to remain in sexual limbo and not get any, despite wanting it very, very badly. I think this will be little change for the yappy junkyard dog. I heard his hand turned him down too.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Sol3a1



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,14:19   

Quote (Louis @ Feb. 19 2011,13:50)
So Joe is all about the dick and balls?

I have spoken to the gay community. They object most strenuously. One particularly unhappy member asked if we heterosexuals could take him. I spoke for all of us, I hope you don't mind, and said no. That means Joe is forced to remain in sexual limbo and not get any, despite wanting it very, very badly. I think this will be little change for the yappy junkyard dog. I heard his hand turned him down too.

Louis

If Joe were to get (or give some) to "Tranmaw" (that moniker just lifts the imagination, expands the mind into new dimensions and sickens the hell out of you at the same time) would he be committing an act of:
homosexuality
heterosexuality
bestiality
auto-eroticism
or something far, far darker that even this pervert can't fathom?

  
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,15:01   

Quote (Sol3a1 @ Feb. 19 2011,20:19)
Quote (Louis @ Feb. 19 2011,13:50)
So Joe is all about the dick and balls?

I have spoken to the gay community. They object most strenuously. One particularly unhappy member asked if we heterosexuals could take him. I spoke for all of us, I hope you don't mind, and said no. That means Joe is forced to remain in sexual limbo and not get any, despite wanting it very, very badly. I think this will be little change for the yappy junkyard dog. I heard his hand turned him down too.

Louis

If Joe were to get (or give some) to "Tranmaw" (that moniker just lifts the imagination, expands the mind into new dimensions and sickens the hell out of you at the same time) would he be committing an act of:
homosexuality
heterosexuality
bestiality
auto-eroticism
or something far, far darker that even this pervert can't fathom?

Ahhhh one of the difficult questions, eh? I'm going to go with "It would be a beautiful expression of love, a perfect match, and I wish them both well."

I cannot imagine a description they would hate more.

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,17:24   

bwahahahaha yall too nasty. dnmlthr is doing data analysis

the thing is, tranmaw has twice what Joe has, and on each end. †but hers displeased teh Jesus so she let it grow shut.

think about it

it ain't like a earring hole, this sombitch has a keratin plug and a patch of stubble growing on top of it. †if you rolled your finger over the top of it you'd think somebody sewed a toy jack up in the space between it's disgusting ass and the stick that dwarfs all other redwoods

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell.†Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
DaveH



Posts: 49
Joined: July 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 19 2011,17:54   

Had a bit of an epiphany about JoeyG the Mussilman, the other day.
(I seem to recall that Joetard claimed to be Muslim, I can't be bothered to trawl back through his screeds to confirm it; I realise that he's a pathetic lying turd who will say anything and then immediately deny it)
Listening to one of the worst programmes on BBC Radio 4, on Monday (Beyond Belief, Podcast available HERE 14th Feb, †for our colonial cousins, but don't bother, it's embarrassing for the leftwing biased, secular BBC to even produce this crap) I heard a Muslim school-inspector (ie a Muslim, chosen to officially inspect state-funded Muslim schools in the UK, to make sure that they adhered to national standards of education) freely volunteer the tard that pupils at Muslim state schools would be taught about probability so they could pass the national exams, but would then be instructed:
"But actually, nothing happens except by God's will!!!11110ne"
So, there's JoeJosephIDguy's point: there is no such thing as a chance event, it's just that his omnipotent designer *chooses* to be constrained so that his (or His) actions are indistinguishable from a Poisson distribution.
But, ITZ ALL TEH DESGINER, OK??? Obviously ....

  
evil bfish with a goatee



Posts: 4
Joined: Jan. 2011

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,02:36   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Feb. 19 2011,12:30)
I'll just leave this here.



"Healthy sexual relationship" did not turn up once.

Could you add "ya see" and "IOW" to the list?

  
Joe G



Posts: 2040
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:30   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 18 2011,13:31)
Joe, let's look at this one step at a time.

Quote
ID is not anti-evolution you ignorant sack of puss.


OK, so ID is stand alone and has nothing to do with evolution.
Quote
You don't need to know anything about ID in order to support your position


OK, so evolution is stand alone and has nothing to do with ID.

Quote
And if you could produce evidence that supports your position then ID would be falsified.


But if ID is nothing to do with evolution and evolution is not anti-ID then how would providing evidence that supports evolution falsify ID?

Bwhahahahahahaha. Tard.

You are so fucking confused. ID is compatible with evolution. ID is incompatible with blind watchmaker evolution.

IOW ID says that evolution occurs but is guided/ directed. The ToE says that evolution is unguided:

Quote
Logically derived from confirmable evidence, evolution is understood to be the result of an unguided, unplanned process of random variation and natural selection.
38 nobel laureates in a letter to kansas.

But I have been over and over this and apparently you are just too stupid to understand any of it.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
Joe G



Posts: 2040
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:34   

Quote (Robin @ Feb. 18 2011,13:48)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 18 2011,11:59)

 
Quote (Robin @ Feb. 18 2011,11:51)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2011,15:22)
†  
Quote (Robin @ Feb. 09 2011,08:51)
† †
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 08 2011,11:45)

† † † †
Quote

IOW once again it appears that some/ most of the inernet poseurs don't even understand their own position.



Funny...seems to me that the quotes you provided from the University of Utah, Berkeley, and Nature indicate that your claim:

† † † †
Quote
According to evolutionary biologists all genetic changes are accidents/ errors/ mistakes.


is wrong. Do they indicate that "errors and "mistakes" lead to all genetic change? Why no...no they don't! Do they use the terms to describe the ToE? Why no...no they don't!

You might want to actually sit down and read through those sites and learn a little bit there Joey.

---

Edited: grammatical structure.


OK Robin, if they aren't accidents, errors nor mistakes, what are they? If they are planned then that is ID. If they are anything but errors, mistakes or accidents, that is ID.


Awwww...Joey...are you sore now?

First off, the use of terms like "mistake", "accidents", and "errors" when you chuckleheads is misleading when you post them selectively. Few scientists actually use those terms. Why? Because those (like you Joey-ID-Guy) who don't understand science think they imply that those changes weren't supposed to happen. But of course that's wrong thinking - there is no supposed to happen in biology. There are probabilistic outcomes. DNA replication produces exact copies most of the time, but not always. And when it doesn't, that's called a normal change. That terms like "error" are sometimes used to give people a simplified analogy to computer data copying systems is apparently lost on you. This would be why I asked you to define what you meant by errors, mistakes, and accidents earlier, but you of course declined.

But this is small potatoes. My actual point above that you seem to have not understood or simply failed to address is that those links from Berkley and Utah both point to other causes leading to genetic change. So your claim was factually wrong as well as contextually wrong.


Quote
Please provide a reference that supports your claim that all genetic changes are something other than "accidents, mistakes or errors".


Why? You already did. Nice own goal there!


Look asshole according to Dawkins, Mayr, Moran et al., muttions are completely in the realm of CHANCE.

 
Quote
one stage in the Darwinian process is indeed a chance process -- mutation.- Dawkins


Having reading comprehension problems again there Joey-Joe? Did you miss where I noted just that? What part of "probabilistic outcomes" did you not understand?

So, your whimper above doesn't mean anything as I actually noted that myself. And since that doesn't have address what I did note, you should really try again, dimbulb. Next!

 
Quote
Read "What Evolution Is" and you will see that Mayr echos that.


Been there, done that, but unlike you apparently I actually understood it.

 
Quote
Also I produced references that said mutations are mistakes and errors. What the fuck?


And since I've addressed why those terms were used AND noted that wasn't what you were factually wrong about, you've missed the point yet again, little wien.

 
Quote
What other causes do those sites point to?


LOL! You provided the links, but don't understand them? Why am I not surprised...

 
Quote
damage caused by mutagens? That would be an accident.


Nope. They identify specific examples that are not accidents or errors or anything like that, but apparently you can't comprehend the piece. Figures.

 
Quote
IOW Robin you don't know what you are talking about.


No Joey-joe-hoe...I'm afraid the evidence demonstrating who doesn't know what he is talking (well, writing) about is most definitive and points only at you. LOL!

Hey Robin, go fuck yourself. There isn't anything in any of the links I provided that identify specific examples that are not accidents or errors or anything like that.

All mutations are chance events. They are not planned. They are not directed.

Again if mutations are not accidents/ errors/ mistakes then that is Intelligent Design. Which means you are saying the links I provided also provided positive evidence for ID.

So please produce that part where they discuss those mutations. That way I can use it when assholes like yo say that ID doesn't have anything to support it.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
Joe G



Posts: 2040
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:41   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Feb. 18 2011,15:24)
Joe brings up the fire/arson anology in his latest tardruption.

But how do investigators really do it (If they're forgotten there CSI detecting EFs, that is)?

http://www.uis-usa.com/arson.htm

Quote
Motives
All fires fall into one of three categories: Accidental, Incendiary or Providential. Most fraudulent fires fit into the incendiary category, and where fraudulent fire occurs, a human hand is always involved. Somewhere, perhaps hidden in a maze of seemingly unimportant facts, lies a motive.

Motive may be the first indication of potential arson. Establishment of a motive also aids in identifying a potential or possible suspect. The following seven motives for incendiary fires are routine for fire investigators:

1. Fraud
2. Effort to hide another crime
3. Jealousy
4. Revenge
5. Thrill
† †a. Pyromaniac
† †b. Juvenile
† †c. Sexual
6. Riots / Vandalism
7. Terrorism

Fraudulent fires set to defraud the insurance company are usually motivated by economics. When the corpus delicti of arson has been established, you can expect UIS to seek out and identify the motive for the fire.


Fire Scene "Red Flags" (In order of Priority)
Look for what is there that should not be and for what is not there that
should be.

Large amount of damage
Low burning
Unidentifiable point of origin
No "V" burn patterns present †
Lack of accidental causes
Separate and unconnected fires
Unusual burn patterns and high heat stress
Windows blown away from structure
Evidence of forced entry
Missing inventory
Missing personal items such as photos, bibles, yearbooks, weapons, jewelry
Evidence of a previous fire
Unkempt yard
"For sale" signs
Fuel cans
Fire extending beyond the perimeter of the structure

Claim File "Red Flags" (In order of Priority)

Fires occurring at night
Insured out of town and with solid alibi †
Recently issued policy
Recent endorsement to policy
Insured overly pushy
Insured very familiar with insurance terms †
Insured behind on mortgage payments
Previous claims by insured
Hand-delivered proof of loss
Fires occurring close to expiration date of policy
Over-insured property †
Property for sale
List of out-of-state suppliers †
Many antiques claimed as destroyed †
Sprinkler system recently de-activated
Alarm system not set
Recent decline in utility use †
Business or liquor license lost by insured
Lease with fire-termination clause
Company needing to upgrade old equipment †
Stock becoming obsolete (shoes, clothing, food products)


I don't see much ruling out chance going on. It's all about motive. So ID tards, tell us all about the designer, and what he was thinking when he made AIDS.

Richtard you moron!

Accidental, Incendiary or Providential

Accidental would be the chance part dipshit. And guess what assface? You can't tell motive from the evidence. Science is not involved. Detectives are not scientists.

Providential is also something happening by chance- unless they mean "an act of God", which would be really stupid.

I have taken part in fire investigations Rich. OTOH you are a moron...

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
Joe G



Posts: 2040
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:43   

Quote (Tony M Nyphot @ Feb. 18 2011,20:07)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 18 2011,12:07)
†  
Quote (Occam's Toothbrush @ Feb. 18 2011,13:04)
† †
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 15 2011,15:35)
....you ignorant ball of puss.

Awesome, a mere two words separate Joe calling someone else ignorant, from his demonstration of being unable to spell "pus".

I love it so!

typo

Hmmm...a typo?

Not really little JoeyG, since you misspell it the same way a mere 11 posts later.

Ya see...a typo is like typing "muttion" instead of "mutation" and does not involve repeating the same error, unless you happen to type teh word "the" dyslexically a few times.

Please stop acting the aggrieved 2 year old and have the cojones to admit to a simple error of ignorance in spelling.

ETA: Not that I'd waste any more time looking through previous posts than I already waste, but I would bet little JoeyG has experienced the same "typo" before.

Yes it was a typo because my "s" key was sticking and I don't have an edit key to fix it once I posted it.

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Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:46   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 20 2011,07:30)

†You are so fucking confused.

If I'm confused it's because every time I try to find out about ID I read something different depending on what site I'm reading.

I read on TT and it seems that the version of evolution you are describing is impossible. The designer "front loaded" the first cell/whatever and let things play out however.

Yet you are saying that's not true. So no wonder I'm so fucking confused Joe!

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ID is compatible with evolution.


ID is compatible with lots of things, not only evolution. In fact that's it's problem, is so comparable it's impossible to rule out. And as such useless for anything at all.
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ID is incompatible with blind watchmaker evolution.

If evolution is guided by something please do tell what it is.
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IOW ID says that evolution occurs but is guided/ directed.

It might well say that but then the obvious questions are:

Guided towards what?
Guided from what?
Who is doing the guiding?
How is the guiding happening?
How can we tell the difference between guided evolution and unguided evolution?
Is there such a thing as unguided evolution?

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The ToE says that evolution is unguided:

Untrue, at least in one sense. A sense that you nor Dembski are unable to understand. The environment provides the "information" required to guide evolution.

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38 nobel laureates in a letter to kansas.


Why don't you write up your ideas Joe, and try for the Nobel youself?
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But I have been over and over this and apparently you are just too stupid to understand any of it.

There's an argument there that you are too stupid to explain it, not that I'm too stupid to understand it.

So why don't you start helping me understand by answering my simple questions above?

If ID says that evolution is guided, does it simply stop there?

"Evolution is guided"

Is that all ID can bring to the table? A single statement of "fact" with no supporting evidence. Just a bare assertion? LOL @ "ID" Guy.

If evolution is being guided Joe then we have the full DNA sequences of many organisms now. So it should be possible for you to identify the "target" in all that information. And as I understand ID it's all about information. And finding the "target" in DNA would go a long way to supporting the TT version of ID.

So what's stopping you Joe? Why don't you spend some of your own $$$ and go and identify the targets in the genome that you claim exist.

Or do you suppose the designer acts in real time, not setting targets but tweaking DNA replication/combination in real time?

If so, how do you know?

So, Joe, you can see that they are many simple questions that need to be answer before I can even work out what type of ID you are supporting.

Another simple one: Did the designer act once (e.g. first cell creation) or does the designer act all the time? Guided once or many times? It's seems fairly basic stuff.

Please feel free to avoid all these simple questions and run back and hide under Bradford's skirt!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:51   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 20 2011,07:34)

 Hey Robin, go fuck yourself.

Aww, the little boy made a swear! It's funny how you feel free to express your true nature at ATBC but have to watch your words over at TT huh Joe? Better not go too far or daddy Bradford might stop being so accommodating. You might not be able to creep under his dress anymore.
 
Quote
Again if mutations are not accidents/ errors/ mistakes then that is Intelligent Design.

As you've yet to show that in any way, never mind in a rigorous repeatable way that's an easy claim to make but a difficult one to support. When you get around to supporting it do wake me up.
 
Quote
Which means you are saying the links I provided also provided positive evidence for ID.

There is no positive evidence for ID, it's all based upon what evolution cannot do.
 
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So please produce that part where they discuss those mutations.

Typical ID proponent, always asking others to do the work that if they really believed in what they were saying they'd do themselves.
 
Quote
That way I can use it when assholes like yo say that ID doesn't have anything to support it.

So if you can't find anything to support ID without that information you've been talking out of your behind for these last few years then? Good to know...

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Joe G



Posts: 2040
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:55   

http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/archive/sloozeworm/mutationbg.html

That whole page talks about mistakes and damage

http://www.biologyreference.com/Mo-Nu/Mutation.html

That page more damage and spontaneous mutations

http://www.scienceclarified.com/Mu-Oi/Mutation.html
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Under most circumstances, DNA molecules are very stable. They survive in the nucleus of a cell without undergoing change, and they reproduce themselves during cell division without being damaged. But accidents do occur. For example, an X ray passing through a DNA molecule might break the chemical bond that holds two nucleotides together. The DNA molecule is destroyed and is no longer able to carry out its function.



http://www.nature.com/scitabl....ion-409
Quote
Errors Are a Natural Part of DNA Replication


--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:56   

Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 20 2011,07:43)
Yes it was a typo because my "s" key was sticking and I don't have an edit key to fix it once I posted it.

Ah, rather I see it as evidence of the intervention of your intelligent designer.

Let's look at the facts. That post you claim had a typo in consisted of at least 1000 bits of FSCI. As such an amount FSCI has never been shown to arise without intelligent intervention it's obvious that what you claim to be a random "accident" was in fact design hidden inside what on the surface looks like an accident.

The fact is that a tornado in a keyboard factory would not have been able to generate such a paragraph of text even in a million billion years of wind/factory/keyboard iterations and as such the claim that a "sticking keyboard" can generate such levels of FSCI is indeed laughable.

The fact is Joe that your typing is non-random and as such must have had an intelligent designer. And we know for a fact that the intelligence cannot be you, you've proven that quite handily over the years.

So, ruling out the contents of your head as responsible for the FSCI laden comment, we have to look elsewhere. And obviously we turn to the idea of a "guided front-loaded" search where the first cell (or not) contained the information (or not) required to generate, millions of years later, that comment with the typo you claim was the result of a sticking "s" key.

Fact is Joe you cannot prove that Intelligent Design was not responsible for that type. When you can provide evidence that ID was not responsible for that typo we might start to get somewhere. Until then, keep up the good work!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gaugerís work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Joe G



Posts: 2040
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Feb. 20 2011,07:58   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Feb. 20 2011,07:51)
Quote (Joe G @ Feb. 20 2011,07:34)

†Hey Robin, go fuck yourself.

Aww, the little boy made a swear! It's funny how you feel free to express your true nature at ATBC but have to watch your words over at TT huh Joe? Better not go too far or daddy Bradford might stop being so accommodating. You might not be able to creep under his dress anymore.
Quote
Again if mutations are not accidents/ errors/ mistakes then that is Intelligent Design.

As you've yet to show that in any way, never mind in a rigorous repeatable way that's an easy claim to make but a difficult one to support. When you get around to supporting it do wake me up.
Quote
Which means you are saying the links I provided also provided positive evidence for ID.

There is no positive evidence for ID, it's all based upon what evolution cannot do.
Quote
So please produce that part where they discuss those mutations.

Typical ID proponent, always asking others to do the work that if they really believed in what they were saying they'd do themselves.
Quote
That way I can use it when assholes like yo say that ID doesn't have anything to support it.

So if you can't find anything to support ID without that information you've been talking out of your behind for these last few years then? Good to know...

ID is not anti-evolution so it cannot be based on what evolution cannot do.

To reach a design inference first one must eliminate chance and necessity- ie the blind watchmaker.

The second part of the design inference is positive evidence and that has been explained and produced for you many times.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
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