RSS 2.0 Feed

» Welcome Guest Log In :: Register

Pages: (324) < ... 41 42 43 44 45 [46] 47 48 49 50 51 ... >   
  Topic: Joe G.'s Tardgasm, How long can it last?< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,12:26   

Nice of you to drop your muppet, Joey.  Not that he'd have the courage to come here anyway...

ID is just a Trojan Horse version of creationism, full stop.  Protest as loud and as long as you like, but that's the plain and simple truth.  It's the proverbial warthog with a lot of lipstick.

You have nothing solid upon which to build a case.  Nobody in ID has a solid case.  They never will, because they aren't interested in doing the actual legwork and labwork required.  All they have is rhetoric.  I would go so far as to call them parasites, because they build their spin by leeching off of the hard work of actual scientists whose toil, effort, and discipline deserves more reward than being ganked by a bunch of spin doctors.

But go ahead and tell yourself that you know better than people who work with this stuff day in and day out.  Shriek as many insults as are needed to assuage your puny ego.  In the end, the only thing that matters is the evidence.

This may come as a shock to you, Joey, but there's this thing called the real world.  It's the bits of life that don't vanish when you stop believing in them.  Scientists work with it, not with circles in the sky and imaginary friends (yes, even those quantum physics types who are always on about uncertainty--they have the experiments to support their weirdness).


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
Joe G



Posts: 2037
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,13:51   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 27 2010,12:19)
[quote=Joe G,Dec. 27 2010,12:11][/quote]
1- Dembski isn't ID and what he said still does not make ID religious. You don't have any idea what religion is, do you?

Who is ID then, Joe? It certainly isn't you/

No one person is ID.

>> Try and use this thought on point three where you couldn't make the leap and typed "non sequitar"

2- I have produced positive evidence for ID it is all on my blog along with a new pro-ID peer-reviewed paper

No you haven't - and you don't understand what 'positive evidence is'. It isn't bad anology, or "I don't think evolution can do that"


Yes I have and it isn't my fault that you are too stupid to understand any of it.

>> Repost you BEST positive case here. Clue - it can't contain any evolution bashing.

3- The ToE is all about the blind watchmaker- or are you saying that you know more about it than Richard Dawkins and a host of other evolutionary biologists? You are the liar.

I don't know, Joe. Per (1) are you saying you know more about ID than Dembski?

Non sequitur

>> See (1) Cupcake.

4- Junk DNA has been abandoned

I must have missed that one. So by extentension, 100% of the genome is used. Sounds like something that could be falsfied by knockout studies. Whoops, another ID fail.

Another ignorant response. No Tardo your extension is wrong and knockout studies don't show the DNA is junk.

Stratus builds redundant systems- knock out one and the system still runs.

>> Before I bend you over the barrel (I'm sure you'd like that) let's be perfectly clear. You maintain that all DNA has function? Yes or No.

5- I never said DNA is software- it contains/ stores software, that is my claim.

ID by analogy, part 3482154

Except it ain't an analogy. It is a fact.

>>Naked asserted!

6- Not one of your provided papers deals with the debate- you are clueless.

Not that you read them.

And end with a projection.

Please tell me then why hasn't any of those papers been used by Coyne et al to refute Dr Behe's recent peer-reviewed paper?

I will tell you why- because they do not support your position.

>> I've not been following Behe. I just don't find him credible anymore, and haven't since this:

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatc....and.php

Well Richtard I don't find you credible at all.

You can't support your position and can only attack straw man versions of ID.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
Joe G



Posts: 2037
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,13:54   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 27 2010,12:21)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 27 2010,12:14)
In other words, religion is compatible with modern evolutionary biology (and indeed all of modern science) if the religion is effectively indistinguishable from atheism
-------------------------------------------------------------
The frequently made assertion that modern biology and the assumptions of the Judaeo-Christian tradition are fully compatible is false
--------------------------------------------------------
Evolution is the greatest engine of atheism ever invented.

Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
As the creationists claim, belief in modern evolution makes atheists of people. One can have a religious view that is compatible with evolution only if the religious view is indistinguishable from atheism
-------------------------------------------------------------------
‘Let me summarize my views on what modern evolutionary biology tells us loud and clear … There are no gods, no purposes, no goal-directed forces of any kind. There is no life after death. When I die, I am absolutely certain that I am going to be dead. That’s the end for me. There is no ultimate foundation for ethics, no ultimate meaning to life, and no free will for humans, either.’
------------------------------------------------------------

All of those are from Will Provine

"No one person is ID." - But Will Provine IS NDE! I'm sure 1.1 billion Catholics would disagree with his statements.

I didn't say Provide was the NDE. But I know I can find more evos that agree with him than disagree.

Also I would bet most catholics do not accept the ToE. For that I was part of a poll that asked 10,000 catholics throughout New England- 7613 said they accept that God Created. Go figure.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
Joe G



Posts: 2037
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,13:57   

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Dec. 27 2010,12:26)
Nice of you to drop your muppet, Joey.  Not that he'd have the courage to come here anyway...

ID is just a Trojan Horse version of creationism, full stop.  Protest as loud and as long as you like, but that's the plain and simple truth.  It's the proverbial warthog with a lot of lipstick.

You have nothing solid upon which to build a case.  Nobody in ID has a solid case.  They never will, because they aren't interested in doing the actual legwork and labwork required.  All they have is rhetoric.  I would go so far as to call them parasites, because they build their spin by leeching off of the hard work of actual scientists whose toil, effort, and discipline deserves more reward than being ganked by a bunch of spin doctors.

But go ahead and tell yourself that you know better than people who work with this stuff day in and day out.  Shriek as many insults as are needed to assuage your puny ego.  In the end, the only thing that matters is the evidence.

This may come as a shock to you, Joey, but there's this thing called the real world.  It's the bits of life that don't vanish when you stop believing in them.  Scientists work with it, not with circles in the sky and imaginary friends (yes, even those quantum physics types who are always on about uncertainty--they have the experiments to support their weirdness).


The MadPanda, FCD

I don't have a muppet you ignorant tool.

That is the problem with you assholes. You make an unwarranted inference and you stick to it as if it has some merit.

You can say ID is just a trojan horse for Creation but you don't have anything to support the claim.

Yes the real world, which you and you ignorant minions say is just an accident (Hawking). Too bad you don't have any positive evidence for that claim nor do you have any way to test that claim.

IOW you don't have any science on your side. And you sure as hell don't have any positive evidence. Otherwise you would post it along with a hypothesis.

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,13:59   

Joey, ID is a straw man.  It has nothing behind it.  It's smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking all the way down.

There is nothing of substance to it.  It has no weight, no meat, no oomph.  It's all word games.

Let's be clear: verifiable evidence of a designer, be it someone's invisible friend or aliens, would be earth-shattering.  The discoverer would be assured not only of a Nobel (at the least) but also of everlasting fame among human scientists for overturning a huge amount of incredibly well supported work.  That nobody has yet to come forth with such an astounding find is telling.


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
Joe G



Posts: 2037
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:05   

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Dec. 27 2010,13:59)
Joey, ID is a straw man.  It has nothing behind it.  It's smoke and mirrors and wishful thinking all the way down.

There is nothing of substance to it.  It has no weight, no meat, no oomph.  It's all word games.

Let's be clear: verifiable evidence of a designer, be it someone's invisible friend or aliens, would be earth-shattering.  The discoverer would be assured not only of a Nobel (at the least) but also of everlasting fame among human scientists for overturning a huge amount of incredibly well supported work.  That nobody has yet to come forth with such an astounding find is telling.


The MadPanda, FCD

Wrong again- ID is based on observations and experiences. It can be tested.

OTOH your position has nothing but "anything but design no matter what!"

You don't have any positive evidence for your position. If you did you chumps would be posting it.

Google "The coherence of an engineered world" another pro-ID peer-reviewed paper

--------------
Chromosomes. are. all. connected. It is one long polymer. Called the DNA. - oleg t

Smilodon's Retreat is a place for ignorant cowards

Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims. (don't know why Ogre has that, but it fits IDists)

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:08   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 27 2010,13:57)
You can say ID is just a trojan horse for Creation but you don't have anything to support the claim.

Thus spake the cdesign proponentsist

http://pandasthumb.org/archives/2005/11/missing-link-cd.html



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:10   

Oooo, muppet man decided to insult!  Consider me surprised.  My baby sister can do better than that, and she does it in three languages.

Joey, just because you are ignorant of the history and evolution (hah!) of ID does not mean that it doesn't have a backstory.

Just because you lack the courage to read the Dover decision (which touched on some of that history in all it's loathesome glisten) and understand what happened does not mean that ID didn't score a major own-goal in the process.

You keep asserting that ID is real, but you have yet to provide any solid evidence.  Burden of proof is on the extraordinary claim, which at this point would be ID.  Pony up or leave the table, Joey.


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:11   

Look, Joe, Kris

I know you don't understand this, but the reason it's so hard to present the information you are requesting is not because it doesn't exist, but because there is so much of it.

Here's a starting list of papers.  Read every one of them.  Compare the results between and among papers, then we'll talk.

Keep in mind that this is just the tip of the iceberg.  Finish all these, then we'll talk about the rest.

There's no use arguing about the details of the papers.  No, there is no ONE paper that will state exactly what you want to see... of course NO scientist would expect that.  It's ALL about the details and combining the details into a coherent picture.

ID doesn't have a single detail.

[1] Appearance of novel capabilities in organisms via mutation and selection - Nylonase enzymes in Japanese Flavobacterium species (among others):

A New Nylon Oligomer Degradation Gene (nylC) On Plasmid pOAD2 From A Flavobacterium sp. by Seiji Negoro, Shinji Kakudo, Itaru Urabe, and Hirosuke Okadam, Journal of Bacteriology, 174(12): 7948-7953 (December 1992)

A Plasmid Encoding Enzymes For Nylon Oligomer Degradation: Nucleotide Sequence And Analysis Of pOAD2 by Ko Kato, Kinya Ohtsuki, Yuji Koda, Tohru Maekawa, Tetsuya Yomo, Seiji Negoro and Itaru Urabe, Microbiology, 141: 2585-2590 (1995)

Biodegradation Of Nylon Oligomers by Seiji Negoro, Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, 54: 461-466 (26th May 2000)

Birth Of A Unique Enzyme From An Alternative Reading Frame Of The Pre-eEisted, Internally Repetitious Coding Sequence by Susumu Ohno, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 81: 2421-2425 (April 1984)

DNA-DNA Hybridization Analysis Of Nylon Oligomer-Degradative Plasmid pOAD2: Identification Of The DNA Region Analogous To The Nylon Oligomer Degradation Gene by Seiji Negoro, Shunichi Nakamura and Hirosuke Okada, Journal of Bacteriology, 158(2): 419-424 (May 1984)

Emergence Of Nylon Oligomer Degradation Enzymes In Pseudomonas aeruginosa PAO Through Experimental Evolution by Irfan J. Prijambada, Seiji Negoro, Tetsuya Yomo and Itaru Urabe, Applied and Environmental Microbiology 61(5): 2020-2022 (May 1995)

Insertion Sequence IS6100 On Plasmid pOAD2, Which Degrades Nylon Oligomers by Ko Kato, Kinya Ohtsuki, Hiroyuki Mitsuda, Tetsuya Yomo, Seiji Negoro and Itaru Urabe, Journal of Bacteriology, 176(4): 1197-1200 (February 1994)

No Stop Codons In The Antisense Strands Of The Genes For Nylon Oligomer Degradation by Tetsuya Yomo, Itaru Urabe and Hirosuke Okada, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 89: 3780-3784 (May 1992)

Nylon Oligomer Degradation Gene, nylC, On Plasmid pOAD2 From A Flavobacterium Strain Encodes Endo-Type 6-Aminohexanoate Oligomer Hydrolase: Purification And Characterisation Of The nylC Product by Shinji Kakudo, Seiji Negoro, Itaru Urabe and Hirosuke Okada, Applied and Environmental Microbiology, 59(11): 3978-3980 (November 1993)

Plasmid-Determined Enzymatic Degradation Of Nylon Oligomers by Seiji Negoro, Tomoyasu Taniguchi, Masaharu Kanaoka, Hiroyuki Kimura and Hirosuke Okada, Journal of Bacteriology, 155(1): 22-31 (July 1983)

[2] Appearance of novel capabilities in organisms via mutation and selection - Antifreeze Glycoproteins in Antarctic Notothenioid fishes:

Convergent Evolution of Antifreeze Glycoproteins in Antarctic Notothenioid Fishes and Arctic Cod by Liangbiao Chen, Arthur L. deVries and Chi-Hing C. Cheng, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 94: 3817-3822 (1997)

Evolution of an Antifreeze Glycoprotein by Liangbiao Chen and Chi-Hing C. Cheng, Nature, 401: 443-444 (1999)

Evolution of Antifreeze Glycoprotein Gene from a Trypsinogen Gene in Antarctic Notothenioid Fishes by Liangbiao Chen, Arthur L. deVries and Chi-Hing C. Cheng, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 94: 3811-3816 (1997)

Functional Antifreeze Glycoprotein Genes in Temperate-Water New Zealand Nototheniid Fishes Infer An Antarctic Evolutionary Origin by Chi-Hing C Cheng, Liangbiao Chen, Thomas J Near and Yumi Jin, Journal of Molecular and Biological Evolution, 20(11): 1897-1908 (2003)

Nonhepatic Origin of Notothenioid Antifreeze Reveals Pancreatic Synthesis As Common Mechanism in Polar Fish Freezing Avoidance by Chi-Hing C Cheng, Paul A. Cziko and Clive W. Evans, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 103: 10491-10496 (2006)

[3] Speciation events observed in the laboratory:

Evidence For Rapid Speciation Following A Founder Event In The Laboratory by James R. Weinberg Victoria R. Starczak and Danielle Jörg, Evolution 46: 1214-1220 (15th January 1992)

Experimentally Created Incipient Species of Drosophila by Theodosius Dobzhansky & Olga Pavlovsky, Nature 230, 289 - 292 (2nd April 1971)

Founder-Flush Speciation In Drosophila pseudoobscura: A Large Scale Experiment by A. Galiana, A. Moya and F. J. Alaya, Evolution 47: 432-444 (1993)

Phagotrophy By A Flagellate Selects For Colonial Prey: A Possible Origin Of Multicellularity by Martin.E. Boraas, Dianne.B. Seale and Joseph .E. Boxhorn, Evolutionary Ecology 12(2): 153-164 (February 1998 )

Sexual Isolation Caused By Selection For Positive And Negative Phototaxis And Geotaxis In Drosophila pseudoobscura by E. del Solar, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 56: 484-487 (1966)

The Phagotrophic Origin Of Eukaryotes And Phylogenetic Classification Of Protozoa by Tom Cavalier-Smith, International Journal of Systematic and Evolutionary Microbiology 52: 297-354 (2002)

[4] Speciation events in nature and supporting phylogenetic evidence: Cichlid fishes

Adaptive Evolution And Explosive Speciation: The Cichlid Fish Model by Thomas D. Kocher, Nature Reviews: Genetics, 5: 288-298 (April 2004)

Cichlid Species Flocks Of The Past And Present by A. Meyer, Heredity 95: 419-420 (20 July 2005)

Drosophila paulistorum: A Cluster Of Species In Statu Nascendi by Theodosius Dobzhansky & Boris Spassky, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA., 45(3): 419-428 (1959)

Hybridisation And Contemporary Evolution In An Introduced Cichlid Fish From Lake Malawi National Park by J. Todd Streelman, S.L. Gymrek, M.R. Kidd, C. Kidd, R.L. Robinson, E. Hert, A.J. Ambali and T.D. Kocher, Molecular Ecology, 13: 2471-2479 (21 April 2004)

Major Histocompatibility Complex Variation In Two Species Of Cichlid Fishes From Lake Malawi by Hideki Ono, Colm O'hUigin, Herbert Tichy and Jan Klein, Molecular and Evolutionary Biology, 10(5): 1060-1072 (1993)

Mitochondrial Phylogeny Of The Endemic Mouthbrooding Lineages Of Cichlid Fishes From Lake Tanganyika In Eastern Africa by Christian Sturmbauer and Axel Meyer, Journal of Molecular and Biological Evolution, 10(4): 751-768 (1993)

Multilocus Phylogeny Of Cichlid Fishes (Pisces: Perciformes) : Evolutionary Comparison Of Microsatellite And Single-Copy Nuclear Loci by J. Todd Streelman, Rafael Zardoya, Axel Meyer and Stephen A Karl, Journal of Molecular and Biological Evolution, 15(7): 798-808 (1998)

Origin Of The Superflock Of Cichlid Fishes From Lake Victoria, East Africa by Erik Verheyen, Walter Salzburger, Jos Snoeks and Axel Meyer, Science, 300: 325-329 (11 April 2003)

Phylogeny Of African Cichlid Fishes As Revealed By Molecular Markers by Werner E. Mayer, Herbert Tichy and Jan Klein., Heredity, 80: 702-714 (1998)

The Species Flocks Of East African Cichlid Fishes: Recent Advances In Molecular Phylogenetics And Population Genetics by Walter Salzburger and Axel Mayer, Naturwissenschaft, 91: 277-290 (20 April 2004)

[5] Evolution of specific features in humans:

Accelerated Evolution Of The ASPM Gene Controlling Brain Size Begins Prior to Human Brain Expansion by Natalay Kouprina, Adam Pavlicek, Ganeshwaran H. Mochida, Gregory Solomon, William Gersch, Young-Ho Yoon, Randall Collura, Maryellen Ruvolo, J. Carl Barrett, C. Geoffrey Woods, Christopher A. Walsh, Jerzy Jurka and Vladimir Larionov, Public Library of Science Biology, 2(5): e126 (23rd March 2004)

Evolution Of The Human ASPM Gene, A Major Determinant Of Brain Size by Jianzhi Ziang, Genetics, 165: 2063-2070 (December 2003)

Evolution Of Olfactory Receptor Genes In The Human Genome by Yoshihito Niimua and Masatoshi Nei, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA., 100(21): 12235-12240 (14 October 2003)

Evolution Of Vertebrate Olfactory Systems by H.L. Eisthen, Brain, Behaviour and Evolution, 50(4): 222-233 (1997).

Human Brain Evolution: Insights from Microarrays by Todd M. Preuss, Mario Cáceres, Michael C. Oldham and Daniel H. Geschwind, Nature Reviews of Genetics, 5(11): 850-860 (November 2004)

Molecular Evolution Of FOXP2, A Gene Involved In Speech And Language by Wolfgang Enard, Molly Przeworski, Simon E. Fisher, Cecilia S. L. Lai, Victor Wiebe, Takashi Kitano Anthony P. Monaco and Svante Pääbo, Nature, 418: 869-872 (22 August 2002)

Molecular Evolution Of Microcephalin, A Gene Determining Human Brain Size by Yin-Qiu Wang and Bing Su, Human Molecular Genetics, 13(11): 1131-1137 (1st June 2004)

Organisation And Evolution Of Olfactory Receptor Genes On Human Chromosome 11 by J.A. Buettner, G. Glusman, N. Ben-Arie, P. Ramos, D. Lancet and G.A. Evans, Genomics 53(1): 56-58 (1 Oct 1998)

Primate Evolution Of An Olfactory Receptor Cluster: Diversification By Gene Conversion And Recent Emergence Of Pseudogenes by D Sharon, G Glusman,Y Pilpel, M Khen, F Gruetzner, T Haaf, D Lancet, Genomics, 61(1) 24-36 (1 Oct 1999)

Sequence, Structure And Evolution Of A Complete Human Olfactory Receptor Gene Cluster by Gustavo Glusman, Alona Sosinsky, Edna Ben-Asher, Nili Avidan, Dina Sonkin, Anita Bahar, André Rosenthal, Sandra Clifton, Bruce Roe, Concepción Ferraz, Jacques Demaille and Doron Lancet, Genomics, 63(2) 227-245 (15 Jan 2000).

The Evolution Of Mammalian Olfactory Genes by L. Issel-Tarver & J. Rine, Genetics, 145(1): 185-195 (January 1997)

The Human Olfactory Subgenome: From Sequence To Structure To Evolution by Tania Fuchs, Gustavo Glasman, Shirley Horn-Saban, Doron Lancet and Yitzhak Pilpel, Human Genetics, 108: 1-13 (3 January 2001)

[6] Bird evolution and feathers:

Avian Skin Development And The Evolutionary Origin Of Feathers by R.H. Sawyer & L.W. Knapp, Journal of Experimental Zoology Part B: Molecular & Devlopmental Evolution, 298(1): 57-72 (15 Aug 2003)

Bird Evolution by Julia Clarke and Kevin Middleton, Current Biology, 16(10): R350-354 (23 May 2006)

Description Of The Earliest Fossil Penguin From South America And First Paleogene Vertebrate Locality Of Tierra Del Fuego, Argentina by Julia A. Clarke, Eduard B. Olivero and Pablo Puerta, American Museum of Natural History Novitates, No 3423, pp 1-19 (9 December 2003)

Evolution Of The Morphological Innovations Of Feathers by Richard O. Prum, Journal of Experimental Zoology Part B: Molecular & Developmental Evolution, 304(6): 570-579 (15 Nov 2005)

The Evolutionary Origin And Diversification Of Feathers by Richard O. Prum and Alan H. Brush, Quarterly Review of Biology, 77(3):, 261-295 (September 2002)

When Did Theropods Become Feathered? Evidence For Pre-Archaeopteryx Feathery Appendages by Martin Kundrát, Journal of Experimental Zoology Part B: Molecular & Developmental Evolution, 302(4): 355-64 (15 July 2004)

[7] General vertebrate evolution and important associated features:

Developmental Data And Phylogenetic Systematics: Evolution Of The Vertebrate Limb by Paula M. Mabee, Journal of American Zoology, 40: 789-800 (2000)

Tetrapod Phylogeny Inferred from 18S And 28S Ribosomal RNA Sequences, And A Review Of The Evidence For Amniote Relationships by S. Blair Hedges, Kirk D. Moberg and Linda R. Maxson, Molecular Biology & Evolution, 7(6): 607-633 (1990) [NOTE: MINOR CORRECTION POSTED IN 1991]

Theropod Forelimb Design And Evolution by Kevin M. Middleton and Stephe M. Gatesby. Zoological Journal of the Linnaean Society, 128: 149-187 (2000)

[8] Phylogenetics and Molecular Phylogeny not covered in papers above, plus genetic and other insights into deep evolutionary time, including the reconstruction of ancient genes and proteins:

Crystal Structure Of An Ancient Protein: Evolution By Conformational Epistasis by Eric A. Ortlund, Jamie T. Bridgham, Matthew R. Redinbo and Joseph W. Thornton, Science, 317: 1544-1548 (14 September 2007)

Fractious Phylogenies by Thomas D Kocher, Nature, 423: 489-490 (29 May 2003)

Inferring The Historical Patterns Of Biological Evolution by Mark Pagel, Nature, 401: 877-884 (28 October 1999)

Estimating Metazoan Divergence Times With A Molecular Clock by Kevin J. Peterson, Jessica B. Lyons, Kristin S. Nowak, Carter M. Takacs, Matthew J. Wargo & Mark A. McPeek, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of America, 101(17): 6536-6541 (April 2004,)

Evolution Of Amino Acid Frequencies In Proteins Over Deep Time: Inferred Order Of Introduction Of Amino Acids Into The Genetic Code by Dawn J. Brooks, Jacques R. Fresco, Arthur M. Lesk, and Mona Singh, Molecular Biology and Evolution 19: 1645-1655 (2002)

Resurrecting Ancient Genes: Experimental Analysis Of Extinct Molecules by Joseph W. Thornton, Nature Reviews: Genetics, 5: 366-375 (5 May 2004)

Taxonomic Congruence Versus Total Evidence, and Amniote Phylogeny Inferred from Fossils, Molecules and Morphology by Douglas J. Eernisse and Arnold G. Kluge, Molecular Biology & Evolution, 10(6): 1170-1195 (1993)

The Past As The Key To The Present: Resurrection Of Ancient Proteins From Eosinophils by Steven A. Benner, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA., 99(8): 4760-4761 (16 April 2002)

The Timing Of Eukaryotic Evolution: Does A Relaxed Molecular Clock Reconcile Proteins And fossils? by Emmanuel J.P. Douzery, Elizabeth A. Snell, Eric Bapteste, Frédéric Delsuc & Hervé Philiipe, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of America,, 101(43): 15386-15391 (October 2004)

[9] Blind Cave Fishes and their relevance to the evolution of the eye, plus a special paper on eye evolution:

Adaptive Evolution Of Eye Degeneration In The Mexican Blind Cave?sh by William. R. Jeffrey, Journal of Heredity, 96(3): 185-196 (Jan 2005)

Cavefish As A Model System In Evolutionary Developmental Biology by William R. Jeffrey, Devlopmental Biology, 231:, 1-12 (1 Mar 2001)

Hedgehog Signalling Controls Eye Degeneration In Blind Cavefish by Yoshiyuki Yamamoto, David W. Stock and William R. Jeffery, Nature, 431: 844-847 (14 Oct 2004)

The Master Control Gene For Morphgenesis And Evolution Of The Eye by Walter J. Gehrig, Genes To Cells, 1: 11-15 (1996)

Why Cavefish Are Blind by N.M. Tian & D.J. Price, Bioessays, 27: 235-238 (Mar 2005)

[10] Evolution of photosynthesis:

Early Evolution Of Photosynthesis: Clues From Nitrogenase And Chlorophyll Iron Proteins by Donald H. Burke, John E. Hearst and Arend Sidow, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 90(15): 7134-7138 (1st August 1993)

Evolution: When Did Photosynthesis Emerge On Earth? by David J. Des Marais, Science, 289: 1703-1705 (8th September 2000)

Molecular Evidence For The Early Evolution Of Photosynthesis by Jin Xiong, William M. Fischer, Kazuhito Inoue, Masaaki Nakahara and Carl E. Bauer, Science, 289: 1724-1730 (8 September 2000)

Origin And Early Evolution Of Photosynthesis by Robert E. Blankenship, Photosynthesis Research, 33(2): 91-111 (August 1992)

Tracking Major Evolution Of Photosynthesis By Characterisation Of A Major Photosynthesis Gene Cluster From Heliobacillus mobilis by Jin Xiong, Kazuhto Inoue and Carl E. Bauer, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 95(25); 14581-14586 (8th December 1998)

[11] General evolutionary theory and supporting evidence:

Empirical Fitness Landscapes Reveal Accessible Evolutionary Paths by Frank J. Poelwijk, Daniel J. Kiviet, Daniel M. Weinreich and Sander J. Tans, Nature, 445: 383-386 (25 January 2007)

Evolution Of Biological Information by Thomas D. Schneider, Nucleic Acids Research, 28: 2794-2799 (2000)

Genetic Variability, Twin Hybrids And Constant Hybrids In A Case Of Balanced Lethal Factors by Hermann Joseph Müller, Genetics, 3(5): 422-499 (1918)

The Cost Of Natural Selection Revisited by Leonard Nunney, Ann. Zool. Fennici, 40: 185-194 (30 April 2003)

[12] Hominid Ancestry

A New Primate From The Early Eocene Of Myanmar And The Asian Early Origin Of Anthropoids by J.-J. Jaeger, Tin Thein, M. Benammi, Y. Chaimanee, Aung Naing Soe, Thit Lwin, Than Tun, San Wai and S. Ducrocq, Science, 286: 528-520 (15 October 1999)

Initial Sequencing Of The Chimpanzee Genome And Comparison With The Human Genome, The Chimpanzee Genome Sequencing Consortium (see paper for full list of 68 authors), Nature, 437: 69-87 (1 September 2005)

The Oldest Known Anthropoid Postcranial Fossils And The Early Evolution Of Higher Primates by D.L. Gebo, M, D'Agosto, K.C. Beard, T, Qi and J Wang, Nature, 404: 276-78 (16 March 2002)

[13] Direct Experimental Tests Of Evolutionary Concepts

A Model For Divergent Allopatric Speciation Of Polyploid Pteridophytes Resulting From Silencing Of Duplicate-Gene Expression by Charles R.E. Werth and Michael D. Windham, American Naturalist, 137(4): 515-526 (April 1991) - DEVELOPMENT OF A MODEL TO MATCH OBSERVED SPECIATION IN NATURE

A Molecular Reexamination Of Diploid Hybrid Speciation Of Solanum raphanifolium by David M. Spooner, Kenneth. J. Sytsma and James F. Smith, Evolution, 45(3): 757-764 - DOCUMENTATION OF AN OBSERVED SPECIATION EVENT

Cavefish As A Model System In Evolutionary Developmental Biology by William R. Jeffrey, Developmental Biology, 231:, 1-12 (1 Mar 2001) - contains experimental tests of hypotheses about eye evolution

Chromosome Evolution, Phylogeny, And Speciation Of Rock Wallabies, by G. B. Sharman, R. L. Close and G. M. Maynes, Australian Journal of Zoology, 37(2-4): 351-363 (1991) - DOCUMENTATION OF OBSERVED SPECIATION IN NATURE

Crystal Structure Of An Ancient Protein: Evolution By Conformational Epistasis by Eric A. Ortlund, Jamie T. Bridgham, Matthew R. Redinbo and Joseph W. Thornton, Science, 317: 1544-1548 (14 September 2007) - refers to the reconstruction of ancient proteins from extinct animals by back-tracking along the molecular phylogenetic trees and demonstrating that the proteins in question WORK

Evidence For Rapid Speciation Following A Founder Event In The Laboratory by James R. Weinberg Victoria R. Starczak and Danielle Jörg, Evolution 46: 1214-1220 (15th January 1992) - EXPERIMENTAL GENERATION OF A SPECIATION EVENT IN THE LABORATORY

Evolutionary Theory And Process Of Active Speciation And Adaptive Radiation In Subterranean Mole Rats, Spalax ehrenbergi Superspecies, In Israel by E. Nevo, Evolutionary Biology, 25: 1-125 - DOCUMENTATION OF OBSERVED SPECIATION IN NATURE

Experimentally Created Incipient Species Of Drosophila by Theodosius Dobzhansky & Olga Pavlovsky, Nature 230: 289 - 292 (2nd April 1971) - EXPERIMENTAL GENERATION OF A SPECIATION EVENT IN THE LABORATORY

Founder-Flush Speciation On Drosophila pseudoobscura: A Large Scale Experiment by Agustí Galiana, Andrés Moya and Francisco J. Alaya, Evolution 47: 432-444 (1993) EXPERIMENTAL GENERATION OF A SPECIATION EVENT IN THE LABORATORY

Genetics Of Natural Populations XII. Experimental Reproduction Of Some Of the Changes Caused by Natural Selection by Sewall Wright & Theodosius Dobzkansky, Genetics, 31(2): 125-156 (1946) - direct experimental tests of natural selection mechanisms

Hedgehog Signalling Controls Eye Degeneration In Blind Cavefish by Yoshiyuki Yamamoto, David W. Stock and William R. Jeffery, Nature, 431: 844-847 (14 Oct 2004) - direct experimental test of theories about eye evolution and the elucidation of the controlling genes involved

Initial Sequencing Of The Chimpanzee Genome And Comparison With The Human Genome, The Chimpanzee Genome Sequencing Consortium (see paper for full list of 68 authors), Nature, 437: 69-87 (1 September 2005) - direct sequencing of the chimpanzee genome and direct comparison of this genome with the previously sequenced human genome, whereby the scientists discovered that fully twenty-nine percent of the orthologous proteins of humans and chimpanzees are IDENTICAL

Origin Of The Superflock Of Cichlid Fishes From Lake Victoria, East Africa by Erik Verheyen, Walter Salzburger, Jos Snoeks and Axel Meyer, Science, 300: 325-329 (11 April 2003) - direct experimental determination of the molecular phylogeny of the Lake Victoria Superflock, including IDENTIFYING THE COMMON ANCESTOR OF THE 350+ SPECIES IN QUESTION and NAMING THAT ANCESTOR as Haplochromis gracilior

Phagotrophy By A Flagellate Selects For Colonial Prey: A Possible Origin Of Multicellularity by Martin.E. Boraas, Dianne.B. Seale and Joseph .E. Boxhorn, Evolutionary Ecology 12(2): 153-164 (February 1998 ) - direct experimental test of hypotheses about the origins of multicellularity

Pollen-Mediated Introgression And Hybrid Speciation In Louisiana Irises by Michael L. Arnold, Cindy M. Buckner and Jonathan J. Robinson, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 88(4): 1398-1402 (February 1991) - OBSERVATION OF A SPECIATION EVENT IN NATURE

Protein Engineering Of Hydrogenase 3 To Enhance Hydrogen Production by Toshinari. Maeda, Viviana. Sanchez-Torres and Thomas. K. Wood, Applied Microbiology and Biotechnology, 79(1): 77-86 (May 2008) - DIRECT EXPERIMENTAL APPLICATION OF EVOLUTION IN THE LABORATORY TO PRODUCE A NEW BIOTECHNOLOGY PRODUCT

Resurrecting Ancient Genes: Experimental Analysis Of Extinct Molecules by Joseph W. Thornton, Nature Reviews: Genetics, 5: 366-375 (5 May 2004) - direct experimental reconstruction in the laboratory of ancient proteins from extinct animals

Sexual Isolation Caused By Selection For Positive And Negative Phototaxis And Geotaxis In Drosophila pseudoobscura by E. del Solar, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 56: 484-487 (1966) - direct experimental test of selection mechanisms and their implications for speciation

Speciation By Hybridisation In Heliconius Butterflies by Jesús Mavárez, Camilo A. Salazar, Eldredge Bermingham, Christian Salcedo, Chris D. Jiggins and Mauricio Linares, Nature, 441: 868-871 (15th June 2006) - DETERMINATION OF A SPECIATION EVENT IN NATURE, FOLLOWED BY LABOARTORY REPRODUCTION OF THAT SPECIATION EVENT, AND CONFIRMATION THAT THE LABORATORY INDIVIDUALS ARE INTERFERTILE WITH THE WILD TYPE INDIVIDUALS

Speciation By Hybridization In Phasmids And Other Insects By Luciano Bullini and Guiseppe Nascetti, Canadian Journal of Zoology 68(8): 1747-1760 (1990) - OBSERVATION OF A SPECIATION EVENT IN NATURE

The Gibbons Speciation Mechanism by S. Ramadevon and M. A. B. Deaken, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 145(4): 447-456 (1991) - DEVELOPMENT OF A MODEL ACCOUNTING FOR OBSERVED INSTANCES OF SPECIATION

The Master Control Gene For Morphogenesis And Evolution Of The Eye by Walter J. Gehrig, Genes to Cells, 1: 11-15, 1996 - direct experimental test of hypotheses concerning eye evolution including the elucidation of the connection between the Pax6 gene and eye morphogenesis, and the experimental manipulation of that gene to control eye development

The Past As The Key To The Present: Resurrection Of Ancient Proteins From Eosinophils by Steven A. Benner, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA., 99(8): 4760-4761 (16 April 2002) - direct experimental reconstruction of ancient proteins from extinct animals

Now, here's a list of papers from the abiogenesis research literature:

A Combined Experimental And Theoretical Study On The Formation Of The Amino Acid Glycine And Its Isomer In Extraterrestrial Ices by Philip D. Holtom, Chris J. Bennett, Yoshihiro Osamura, Nigel J Mason and Ralf. I Kaiser, The Astrophysical Journal, 626: 940-952 (20th June 2005)

A Production Of Amino Acids Under Possible Primitive Earth Conditions by Stanley L. Miller, Science, 117: 528-529 (15th May 1953)

A Rigorous Attempt To Verify Interstellar Glycine by I. E. Snyder, F. J. Lovas, J. M. Hollis, D. N. Friedel, P. R. Jewell, A. Remijan, V. V. Ilyushin, E. A. Alekseev and S. F. Dyubko, The Astrophysical Journal, 619(2): 914-930 (1st February 2005) {Also available at arXiv.org]

A Self-Replicating Ligase Ribozyme by Natasha Paul & Gerald F. Joyce, Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA., 99(20): 12733-12740 (1st October 2002)

A Self-Replicating System by T. Tjivuka, P. Ballester and J. Rebek Jr, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 112: 1249-1250 (1990)

Activated Acetic Acid By Carbon Fixation On (Fe,Ni)S Under Primordial Conditions by Claudia Huber and Günter Wächetershäuser, Science, 276: 245-247 (11th April 1997)

An Asymmetric Underlying Rule In The Assignment Of Codons: Possible Clue To A Quick Early Evolution Of The Genetic Code Via Successive Binary Choices by Marc Delarue, The RNA Journal, 13(2): 161-169 (12th December 2006)

Attempted Prebiotic Synthesis Of Pseudouridine by Jason P. Dworkin, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 27: 345-355 (1997)

Carbonyl Sulphide-Mediated Prebiotic Formation Of Peptides by Luke Leman, Leslie Orgel and M. Reza Ghadiri, Science, 306: 283-286 (8th October 2004)

Catalysis In Prebiotic Chemistry: Application To The Synthesis Of RNA Oligomers by James P. Ferris, Prakash C. Joshi, K-J Wang, S. Miyakawa and W. Huang, Advances in Space Research, 33: 100-105 (2004)

Cations As Mediators Of The Adsorption Of Nucleic Acids On Clay Surfaces In Prebiotic Environments by Marco Franchi, James P. Ferris and Enzo Gallori, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 33: 1-16 (2003)

Chemistry for the Synthesis of Nucleobase-Modified Peptide Nucleic Acid by R. H. E. Hudson, R. D. Viirre, Y. H. Liu, F. Wojciechowski and A. K. Dambenieks, Pure Appl. Chem., 76(7-8) 1591-1598, 2004

Coevolution Of Compositional Protocells And Their Environment by Barak Shenhav, Aia Oz and Doron Lancet, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 362: 1813-1819 (9th May 2007)

Computational Models For The Formation Of Protocell Structures by Linglan Edwards, Yun Peng and James A. Reggia, Artificial Life, 4(1): 61-77 (1998)

Conditions For The Emergence Of Life On The Early Earth: Summary And Reflections by Joshua Jortner, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1877-1891 (11th September 2006)

Coupled Growth And Division Of Model Protocell Membranes by Ting F. Zhu and Jack W. Szostak, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 131: 5705-5713 (2009)

Darwinian Evolution On A Chip by Brian M. Paegel and Gerald F. Joyce, Public Library of Science Biology, 6(4): e85 (April 2008)

Early Anaerobic Metabolisms by Don E Canfield, Minik T Rosing and Christian Bjerrum, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1819-1836 (11th September 2006)

Emergence Of A Replicating Species From An In Vitro RNA Evolution Reaction by Ronald R. Breaker and Gerald F. Joyce, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 91: 6093-6097 (June 1994)

Evolution And Self-Assembly Of Protocells by Ricard V. Solé, The International Journal of Biochemistry & Cell Biology, 41: 274-284 (2009)

Evolution Of Amino Acid Frequencies In Proteins Over Deep Time: Inferred Order Of Introduction Of Amino Acids Into The Genetic Code by Dawn J. Brooks, Jacques R. Fresco, Arthur M. Lesk and Mona Singh, Molecular and Biological Evolution, 19(10): 1645-1655 (2002)

Formation Of Bimolecular Membranes From Lipid Monolayers And A Study Of Their Electrical Properties by M. Montal and P. Mueller, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 69(12): 3561-3566 (December 1972)

Formation Of Protocell-Like Structures From Glycine And Formaldehyde In A Modified Sea Medium by Hiroshi Yanagawa and Fujio Egami, Proceedings of the Japan Academy, 53: 42-45 (12th January 1977)

Formation Of Protocell-Like Vesicles In A Thermal Diffusion Column by Itay Budin, Raphael J. Bruckner and Jack W. Szostak, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 131: 9628-9629 (2009)

Generic Darwinian Selection In Catalytic Protocell Assemblies by Andreea Munteanu, Camille Stephan-Otto Attolini, Steen Rasmussen, Hans Ziock and Ricard V. Solé, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 362: 1847-1855 (2007)

Homochiral Selection In The Montmorillonite-Catalysed And Uncatalysed Prebiotic Synthesis Of RNA by Prakash C. Joshi, Stefan Pitsch and James P. Ferris, Chemical Communications (Royal Society of Chemistry), 2497-2498 (2000) [DOI: 10.1039/b007444f]

Hyperthermophiles In The History Of Life by Karl O. Stetter, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1837-1843 (11th September 2006)

Implications Of A 3.472-3.333?GYr-Old Subaerial Microbal Mat From The Barberton Greenstone Belt, South Africa, For The UV Environmental Conditions Of The Early Earth by Frances Westall, Cornel E.J de Ronde, Gordon Southam, Nathalie Grassineau, Maggy Colas, Charles Cockell and Helmut Lammer, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1857-1876 (11th September 2006)

Information Transfer From Peptide Nucleic Acids To RNA By Template-Directed Syntheses by Jürgen G. Schmidt, Peter E. Nielsen and Leslie E. Orgel, Nucleic Acids Research, 25(23): 4794-4802 (1997)

Interstellar Glycine by Yi-Jehng Kuan, Steven B. Charnley, Hui-Chun Huang, Wei-Ling Tseng, and Zbigniew Kisiel, The Astrophysical Journal, 593: 848-867 (20th August 2003)

Kin Selection And Virulence In The Evolution Of Protocells And Parasites by Steven A. Frank, Proceedings of the Royal Society of London Part B, 258: 153-161 (1994)

Ligation Of The Hairpin Ribozyme In cis Induced By Freezing And Dehydration by Sergei A. Kazakov, Svetlana V. Balatskaya and Brian H. Johnston, The RNA Journal, 12: 446-456 (2006)

Lipid Bilayer Fibres From Diastereomeric And Enantiomeric N-Octylaldonamides by Jürgen-Hinrich Fuhrhop, Peter Schneider, Egbert Boekema and Wolfgang Helfrich, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 110: 2861-2867 (1988)

"Living" Under The Challenge Of Information Decay: The Stochastic Corrector Model Versus Hypercycles by Elias Zintzaras, Mauro Santos and Eörs Szathmáry, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 217: 167-181 (2002)

Mineral Catalysis And Prebiotic Synthesis: Montmorillonite-Catalysed Formation Of RNA by James P. Ferris, Elements, 1: 145-149 (June 2005)

Molecular Asymmetry In Extraterrestrial Chemistry: Insights From A Pristine Meteorite by Sandra Pizzarello, Yongsong Huang and Marcelo R. Alexandre, Proceeding of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 105(10): 3700-3704 (11th March 2008)

Molecular Dynamics Simulation Of The Formation, Structure, And Dynamics Of Small Phospholipid Vesicles by Siewert J. Marrink and Alan E. Mark, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 125: 15233-15242 (2003)

Montmorillonite Catalysis Of 30-50 Mer Oligonucleotides: Laboratory Demonstration Of Potential Steps In The Origin Of The RNA World by James P. Ferris, Origins of Life and Evolution of the biosphere, 32: 311-332 (2002)

Montmorillonite Catalysis Of RNA Oligomer Formation In Aqueous Solution: A Model For The Prebiotic Formation Of RNA by James P. Ferris and Gözen Ertem, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 115: 12270-12275 (1993)

Nucelotide Synthetase Ribozymes May Have Emerged First In The RNA World by Wentao Ma, Chunwu Yu, Wentao Zhang and Jiming Hu, The RNA Journal, 13: 2012-2019, 18th September 2007

Nutrient Uptake By Protocells: A Liposome Model System by Pierre-Alain Monnard and David W. Deamer, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 31: 147-155 (2001)

Organic Compounds In Carbonaceous Meteorites by Mark A. Sephton, Natural Products Reports (Royal Society of Chemistry), 19: 292-311 (2002)

Peptide Nucleic Acids Rather Than RNA May Have Been The First Genetic Molecule by Kevin E. Nelson, Matthew Levy and Stanley L. Miller, Proc. Natl, Acad. Sci. USA., 97(8): 3868-3871, 11th April 2000

Peptides By Activation Of Amino Acids With CO On (Ni,Fe)S Surfaces: Implications For The Origin Of Life by Claudia Huber and Günter Wächtershäuser, Science, 281: 670-672 (31st July 1998)

Phenotypic Diversity And Chaos In A Minimal Cell Model by Andreea Munteanu and Ricard V. Solé, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 240: 434-442 (2006)

Prebiotic Amino Acids As Asymmetric Catalysts by Sandra Pizzarello and Arthur L. Weber, Science, 303: 1151 (20 February 2004)

Prebiotic Chemistry And The Origin Of The RNA World by Leslie E. Orgel, Critical Reviews in Biochemistry and Molecular Biology, 39: 99-123 (2004)

Prebiotic Materials From On And Off The Early Earth by Max Bernstein, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

Prebiotic Synthesis On Minerals: Bridging The Prebiotic And RNA Worlds by James P. Ferris, Biological Bulletin, 196: 311-314 (June 1999)

Racemic Amino Acids From The Ultraviolet Photolysis Of Interstellar Ice Analogues by Max P. Bernstein, Jason P. Dworkin, Scott A. Sandford, George W. Copoper and Louis J. Allamandola, Nature, 416: 401-403

Replicating Vesicles As Models Of Primitive Cell Growth And Division by Martin M. Hanczyc and Jack W. Szostak, Current Opinion In Chemical Biology, 8: 660-664 (22nd October 2004)

Ribozymes: Building The RNA World by Gerald F. Joyce, Current Biology, 6(8): 965-967, 1996

RNA Catalysis In Model Protocell Vesicles by Irene A Chen, Kourosh Salehi-Ashtiani and Jack W Szostak, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 127: 13213-13219 (2005)

RNA-Catalysed Nucleotide Synthesis by Peter J. Unrau and David P. Bartel, Nature, 395: 260-263 (17th September 1998)

RNA-Catalyzed RNA Polymerization: Accurate and General RNA-Templated Primer Extension by Wendy K. Johnston, Peter J. Unrau, Michael S. Lawrence, Margaret E. Glasner and David P. Bartel, Science, 292: 1319-1325, 18th May 2001

RNA-Directed Amino Acid Homochirality by J. Martyn Bailey, FASEB Journal (Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology), 12: 503-507 (1998)

RNA Evolution And The Origin Of Life by Gerald F. Joyce, Nature, 338: 217-224 (16th March 1989)

Self Replicating Systems by Volker Patzke and Günter von Kiedrowski, ARKIVOC 5: 293-310, 2007

Self-Assembling Amphiphilic Molecules Synthesis In Simulated Interstellar/Precometary Ices by Jason P. Dworkin, David W. Deamer, Scott A. Sandford and Louis J. Allamandola, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 98(3): 815-819 (30th January 2001)

Self-Assembly Of Surfactant-Like Peptides With Variable Glycine Tails To Form Nanotubes And Nanovesicles by Steve Santoso, Wonmuk Hwang, Hyman Hartman and Shuguang Zhang, Nano Letters, 2(7): 687-691 (2002)

Self-Assembly Processes In The Prebiotic Environment by David Deamer, Sara Singaram, Sudha Rajamani, Vladimir Kompanichenko and Stephen Guggenheim, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

Self-Organising Biochemical Cycles by Leslie E. Orgel, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 97(23): 12503-12507 (7th November 2000)

Self-Sustained Replication Of An RNA Enzyme by Tracey A. Lincoln and Gerald F. Joyce, ScienceExpress, DOI: 10.1126/science.1167856 (8th January 2009)

Sequence- And Regio-Selectivity In The Montmorillonite-Catalysed Synthesis Of RNA by Gözen Ertem and James P. Ferris, Origins of Life and Evolution of the Biosphere, 30: 411-422 (2000)

Simulation Of The Spontaneous Aggregation Of Phospholipids Into Bilayers by Siewert J. Marrink, Eric Lindahl, Olle Edholm and Alan E. Mark, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 123: 8638-8639 (2001)

Synchronisation Phenomena In Internal Reaction Models Of Protocells by Roberto Serra, Timoteo Carletti, Alessandro Filisetti and Irene Poli, Artificial life, 13: 123-128 (2007)

Synchronisation Phenomena In Protocell Models by Alessandro Filisetti, Roberto Serra, Timoteo Carletti, Irene Poli and Marco Villani, Biophysical Reviews and Letters, 3(1-2): 325-342 (2008)

Synthesis Of 35-40 Mers Of RNA Oligomers From Unblocked Monomers. A Simple Approach To The RNA World by Wenhua Huang and James P. Ferris, Chemical Communications of the Royal Society of Chemistry, 1458-1459 (2003)

Synthesis Of Long Prebiotic Oligomers On Mineral Surfaces by James P. Ferris, Aubrey R. Hill Jr, Rihe Liu and Leslie E. Orgel, Nature, 381: 59-61 (2nd May 1996)

Synthesising Life by Jack W. Szostak, David P. Bartel and P. Luigi Luisi, Nature, 409: 387-390 (18th January 2001)

Synthetic Protocell Biology: From Reproduction To Computation by Ricard V. Solé, Andreea Munteanu, Carlos Rodriguez-Caso and Javier Macia, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 362: 1727-1739 (October 2007)

Template-Directed Synthesis Of A Genetic Polymer In A Model Protocell by Sheref S. Mansy, Jason P. Schrum, Mathangi Krisnamurthy, Sylvia Tobé, Douglas A. Treco and Jack W. Szostak, Nature, 454: 122-125 (4th June 2008)

The Antiquity Of RNA-Based Evolution by Gerald F. Joyce, Nature, 418: 214-221, 11th July 2002

The Case For An Ancestral Genetic System Involving Simple Analogues Of The Nucleotides by Gerald F. Joyce, Alan W. Schwartz, Stanley L. Miller and Leslie E. Orgel, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 84: 4398-4402 (July 1987)

The Descent of Polymerisation by Matthew Levy and Andrew D. Ellington, Nature Structural Biology, 8(7): 580-582, July 2001

The Emergence Of Competition Between Model Protocells by Irene A Chen, Richard W. Roberts and Jack W. Szostak, Science, 305:1474-1476 (3rd September 2004)

The Generality Of DNA-Templated Synthesis As A Basis For Evolving Non-Natural Small Molecules by Zev J. Gartner and David R. Liu, Journal of the American Chemical Society, 123: 6961-6963 (2001)

The Lifetimes Of Nitriles (CN) And Acids (COOH) During Ultraviolet Photolysis And Their Survival In Space by Max P. Bernstein, Samantha F. M. Ashbourne, Scott A. Sandford and Louis J. Allamandola, The Astrophysical Journal, 601: 3650270 (20th January 2004)

The Lipid World by Daniel Segré, Dafna Ben-Eli, David W. Deamer and Doron Lancet, Origins of Life And Evolution of the Biosphere, 31: 119-145, 2001

The Miller Volcanic Spark Discharge Experiment by Adam P. Johnson, H. James Cleaves., Jason D. Dworkin, Daniel P. Glavin, Antonio Lazcano and Jeffrey L. Bada, Science, 322: 404 (17th October 2008)

The Origin And Early Evolution Of Life: Prebiotic Chemistry, The Pre-RNA World, And Time by Antonio Laczano and Stanley R. Miller, Cell, 85: 793-798 (14th June 1996)

The Origin Of Replicators And Reproducers by Eörs Szathmáry, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

The Prebiotic Molecules Observed In The Interstellar Gas by P. Thaddeus, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (7th September 2006)

The Roads To And From The RNA World[/i] by Jason P. Dworkin, Antonio Lazcano and Stanley L. Miller, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 222: 127-134 (2003)

Thermostability Of Model Protocell Membranes by Sheref S. Mansy and Jack W. Szostak, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 105(36): 13351-13355 (9th September 2008)

Toward Synthesis Of A Minimal Cell by Anthony C. Forster and George M. Church, Molecular Systems Biology (2006) doi:10.1038/msb4100090

Transcription And Translation In An RNA World by William R. Taylor, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1689-1702 (11th September 2006)

Two Step Potentially Prebiotic Synthesis Of ?-D-Cystidine-5'-Phosphate From D-Glyceraldehyde-3-Phosphate by Carole Anastasi, Michael A. Crowe and John D. Sutherland, Journal of the American Chemical Society (Communications), 129: 24-24 (2007)

Here's an incomplete list of papers dealing with "Cambrian explosion" canards, and presenting the actual science instead of creationist misrepresentations thereof:


Adaptive Walks In A Gene Network Model Of Morphogenesis: Insights Into The Cambrian Explosion by Ricard V. Solé, Pau Fernández and Stuart A. Kauffman, International Journal of Developmental Biology, 47: 685-693 (2003)

Anatomical Information Content In The Ediacaran Fossils And Their Possible Zoological Affinities by Jerzy Dzik, Integrative and Comparative Biology, 43(1): 114-126 (2003)

Bayesian Models Of Episodic Evolution Support A Late Precambrian Explosive Diversification Of The Metazoa by Stéphanie Aris-Brousou and Ziheng Yang, Molecular Biology and Evolution, 2-(12): 1947-1954 (2003)

Before Programs: The Physical Origination Of Multicellular Forms by Stewart A. Newman, Gabor Forgacs and Gerd B. Müller, International Journal of Developmental Biology, 50: 289-299 (2006)

Can Fast Early Rates Reconcile Molecular Dates With The Cambrian Explosion? by L.D. Bromham & M.D. Hendry, Proc. R. Soc. Lond. B 267: 1041-1047 (2000)

Early Animal Evolution: Emerging Views From Comparative Biology And Geology by Andrew H. Knoll and Sean B. Carroll, Science, 284: 2129-2137 (25th June 1999)

Estimating Metazoan Divergence Times With A Molecular Clock by Kevin J. Peterson, Jessica B. Lyons, Kristin S. Nowak, Carter M. Takacs, Matthew J. Wargo & Mark A. McPeek, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of America, April 2004, 101, 17, 6536-6541

Eukaryotic Organisms In Proterozoic Oceans by A. H. Knoll, E. J. Davaux, D. Hewitt and P. COhen, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 361: 1023-1038 (5th May 2006)

Evolution Of Amino Acid Frequencies In Proteins Over Deep Time: Inferred Order Of Introduction Of Amino Acids Into The Genetic Code by Dawn J. Brooks, Jacques R. Fresco, Arthur M. Lesk, and Mona Singh, Molecular Biology and Evolution 19: 1645-1655 (2002)

Fossils, Molecules And Embryos: New Perspectives On The Cambrian Explosion by J.W. Valentine, D. Jablonski & D.H. Erwin, Development, February 1998, 126(5): 851-859

Inferring The Historical Patterns Of Biological Evolution by Mark Pagel, Nature, 401: 877-884 (28 October 1999)

Interpreting The Earliest Metazoan Fossils: What Can We Learn? by Ben Waggoner, Amer. Zool., 38: 975-982

Lower Cambrian Vertebrates From South China by D-G. Shu, H-L. Lou, S. Conway Morris, X-L. Zhang, S-X. Hu, L. Chen, J. Han, M. Zhu, Y. Li and L-Z. Chen, Nature, 402: 42-46 (4th November 1999)

Major Transitions In Animal Evolution: A Developmental Genetic Perspective by Peter W. H. Holland, American Zoologist, 38: 829-842 (1998)

MicroRNAs And The Advent Of Vertebrate Morphological Complexity by Alysha M. Heimberg, Lorenzo F. Sempre, Vanessa N. Moy, Philip C. J. Donoghue and Kevin J. Peterson, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 105(8): 2946-2950 (26th February 2008)

Molecular Phylogeny Of Arthropods And The Significance Of The Cambrian "Explosion" For Molecular Systematics by Jerome C. Regier & Jeffrey W. Schultz, AMER. ZOOL., 38: 918-928 (1998)

On The Eve Of Animal Radiation: Phylogeny, Ecology And Evolution Of The Ediacaran Biota by Shuhai Xiao and Marc Laflamme, Trends in Ecology and Evolution, 24(1): 31-40 (25th October 2008)

Organic Membraneous Skeleton Of The Precambrian Metazoans From Namibia by Jerzy Dzik, Geology, 27(6): 519-522 (June 1999)

Palaeontological Evidence To Date The Tree Of Life by Michael J. Benton and Philip C. J. Donoghue, Molecular and Biological Evolution, 24(1): 26-53 (2007)

Precambrian Sponges With Cellular Structures by Chia-Wen Li, Jun-Yan Chen and Tzu-En Hua, SCIENCE 279(6) February 1998

Quality Of The Fossil Record Thorugh Time by M.J. Benton, M.A. Wills and R. Hitchin, Nature, 403: 534-537 (3 Feb 2000)

Sr And C Isotopes In Lower Cambrian Carbonates From The Siberian Craton: A Paleoenvironmental Record During The ‘Cambrian Explosion’ by L.A. Derry, M.D. Brasier, R. M. Corfield, A. Yu. Rozanov & A. Yu. Zhuralev, Earth and Planetary Science Letters 128: 671-681 (1994)

Solution To Darwin's Dilemma: Discovery Of The Missing Precambrian Record Of Life by J. William Schopf, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 97(13): 6947-6953 (20th June 2000)

Taphonomy And Anatomy Of The Ediacarans by Jerzy Dzik, Geophysical Research Abstracts, 10: EGU2008-A-01357 (2008)

Taxonomic Congruence Versus Total Evidence, And Amniote Phylogeny Inferred From Fossils, Molecules And Morphology by Douglas J. Eernisse and Arnold G. Kluge, Molecular Biology & Evolution, 10(6): 1170-1195 (1993)

Testing The Cambrian Explosion Hypothesis By Using A Molecular Dating Technique by Lindell Bromham, Andrew Rambaut, Richard Fortey, Alan Cooper and David Penny, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of America, October 1998, 95: 12386-12389

The Cambrian "Explosion": Slow Fuse Or Megatonnage? by Simon Conway Morris, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of America, April 2000, 97(9): 4426-4429

The Cambrian Fossil Record And The Origin Of The Phyla by Graham E. Budd, Integrative & Comparative Biology, 43: 157-165 (2003)

The Ediacaran Biotas In Space and Time by Ben Waggoner, Integrative & Comparative Biology, 43: 104-113 (2003)

The Ediacaran Emergence Of Bilaterans: Congruence Between The Genetic And The Geological Fossil Records by Kevin J. Peterson, James A. Cotton, James G. Gehling and Davide Pisani, Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society Part B, 363: 1435-1443 (11th January 2008)

The Fossil Record Of Early Eukaryotic Diversification by Susannah M. Porter, Palaeontological Society Papers, 10: 35-50 (2004)

The Origin Of The Mineral Skeleton In Chordates by Jerzy Dzik, Evolutionary Biology, 31: 105-154 (2000)

The Timing Of Eukaryotic Evolution: Does A Relaxed Molecular Clock Reconcile Proteins And fossils? by Emmanuel J.P. Douzery, Elizabeth A. Snell, Eric Bapteste, Frédéric Delsuc & Hervé Philiipe, Proceedings of the National Academy of Science of America, October 2004, 101, 43, 15386-15391

Two-Phase Increase In The Maximum Size Of Life Over 3.5 Billion Years Reflects Biological Innovation And Environmental Opportunity by Jonathan L. Payne, Alison G. Boyer, James H. Brown, Seth Finnegan, Michal Kowalewski, Richard A. Krause Jr., S. Kathleen Lyons, Craig R. McClain, Daniel W. McShea, Philip M. Novack-Gottshall, Felisa A. Smith, Jennifer A. Stempien and Steve C. Wang, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 106(1): 24-27 (6th January 2009)

The following list repeats a number of the earlier citations above, but this list concentrates on speciation events:

A Model For Divergent Allopatric Speciation Of Polyploid Pteridophytes Resulting From Silencing Of Duplicate-Gene Expression by Charles R.E. Werth and Michael D. Windham, American Naturalist, 137(4): 515-526 (April 1991)

A Molecular Reexamination Of Diploid Hybrid Speciation Of Solanum raphanifolium by David M. Spooner, Kenneth. J. Sytsma and James F. Smith, Evolution, 45(3): 757-764

Chromosome Evolution, Phylogeny, And Speciation Of Rock Wallabies, by G. B. Sharman, R. L. Close and G. M. Maynes, Australian Journal of Zoology, 37(2-4): 351-363 (1991)

Evidence For Rapid Speciation Following A Founder Event In The Laboratory by James R. Weinberg Victoria R. Starczak and Danielle Jörg, Evolution 46: 1214-1220 (15th January 1992)

Evolutionary Theory And Process Of Active Speciation And Adaptive Radiation In Subterranean Mole Rats, Spalax ehrenbergi Superspecies, In Israel by E. Nevo, Evolutionary Biology, 25: 1-125

Experimentally Created Incipient Species Of Drosophila by Theodosius Dobzhansky & Olga Pavlovsky, Nature 230: 289 - 292 (2nd April 1971)

Founder-Flush Speciation On Drosophila pseudoobscura: A Large Scale Experiment by Agustí Galiana, Andrés Moya and Francisco J. Alaya, Evolution 47: 432-444 (1993)

Pollen-Mediated Introgression And Hybrid Speciation In Louisiana Irises by Michael L. Arnold, Cindy M. Buckner and Jonathan J. Robinson, Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the USA, 88(4): 1398-1402 (February 1991)

Speciation By Hybridisation In Heliconius Butterflies by Jesús Mavárez, Camilo A. Salazar, Eldredge Bermingham, Christian Salcedo, Chris D. Jiggins and Mauricio Linares, Nature, 441: 868-871 (15th June 2006)

Speciation By Hybridization In Phasmids And Other Insects By Luciano Bullini and Guiseppe Nascetti, Canadian Journal of Zoology 68(8): 1747-1760 (1990)

The Gibbons Speciation Mechanism by S. Ramadevon and M. A. B. Deaken, Journal of Theoretical Biology, 145(4): 447-456 (1991)

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:15   

Joe, as I've asked you for a thousand times... why don't you tell us EXACTLY, in great excruciating detail what ID is... and then stick with your definition.

Then we don't have to argue about what it is and what it isn't.

Go ahead, we'll wait, but we won't hold our breath.  You haven't posted it yet after months of asking for it.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:20   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 27 2010,14:15)
Joe, as I've asked you for a thousand times... why don't you tell us EXACTLY, in great excruciating detail what ID is... and then stick with your definition.

Then we don't have to argue about what it is and what it isn't.

Go ahead, we'll wait, but we won't hold our breath.  You haven't posted it yet after months of asking for it.

He can't post what he doesn't have, I suppose.

Not that ignorance of a subject ever stops him.  It's a common failing.


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,14:25   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 27 2010,10:41)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 27 2010,10:33)
Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 27 2010,10:19)
Ogre you are a lying piece of shit as not one IDist has said that ID is religious.

Also I have supported the claim the the ToE posits blind, undirected chemical processes. OTOH you have never supported the claim that my claim is a straw man.

Your ignorance of the ToE is not a refutation.

So until you stop with your cowardice there isn't anything else to say.

As far as the Dembski quote. He signed (if not wrote) a document that says, "Design theory promises to reverse the stifling dominance of the materialist worldview, and to replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."

Demsbki: "If we take seriously the word-flesh Christology of Chalcedon (i.e. the doctrine that Christ is fully human and fully divine) and view Christ as the telos toward which God is drawing the whole of creation, then any view of the sciences that leaves Christ out of the picture must be seen as fundamentally deficient."
- William Dembski, Intelligent Design: The Bridge Between Science & Theology, Downers Grove, InterVarsity Press, 1999.

"Thus, in its relation to Christianity, intelligent design should be viewed as a ground-clearing operation that gets rid of the intellectual rubbish that for generations has kept Christianity from receiving serious consideration." - Intelligent Design's Contribution To The Debate Over Evolution: A Reply To Henry Morris, 2005

"But there are deeper motivations. I think at a fundamental level, in terms of what drives me in this is that I think God's glory is being robbed by these naturalistic approaches to biological evolution, creation, the origin of the world, the origin of biological complexity and diversity. When you are attributing the wonders of nature to these mindless material mechanisms, God's glory is getting robbed...And so there is a cultural war here. Ultimately I want to see God get the credit for what he's done - and he's not getting it." - address given at Fellowship Baptist Church, Waco, Texas, March 7, 2004

"Intelligent design is just the Logos theology of John's Gospel restated in the idiom of information theory." Touchstone Magazine. Volume 12, Issue4: July/August, 1999

"Intelligent Design opens the whole possibility of us being created in the image of a benevolent God."
- William Dembski quoted, Science Test, Church & State Magazine, July / August 2000.

Of course, don't forget that Dembski just came out as a Young Earth Creationist, so of course, EVERYTHING (according to him) is the direct, not indirect, result of the Judeo-Christian God.

Dembski did not come out as a YEC. You are just a moron for thinking so.

Dawkins sed that the ToE alloows one to be an intellectually fulfilled atheist.

Provine has said that the ToE leads to atheism.

JOe... joe... I never lie...

Quote
In writing The End of Christianity today, I would also underscore three points: (1) As a biblical inerrantist, I accept the full verbal inspiration of the Bible and the conventional authorship of the books of the Bible. Thus, in particular, I accept Mosaic authorship of Genesis (and of the Pentateuch) and reject the Documentary Hypothesis. (2) Even though I introduce in the book a distinction between kairos (God's time) and chronos (the world's time), the two are not mutually exclusive. In particular, I accept that the events described in Genesis 1- 11 happened in ordinary space-time, and thus that these chapters are as historical as the rest of the Pentateuch. (3) I believe that Adam and Eve were real people, that as the initial pair of humans they were the progenitors of the whole human race, that they were specially created by God, and thus that they were not the result of an evolutionary process from primate or hominid ancestors.


Dembski - http://www.baptisttheology.org/documen....ity.pdf


BTW: Joe, I loved your comment on how none of those papers answered your question.  Exactly like Behe on the witness stand at Dover.

IOW: I haven't read these papers, I don't know what they say, but I can frame my questions so the papers don't answer them.  

That's a great way to never get hit Joe.  Keep dodging and running.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 10758
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,15:28   

Quote
Well Richtard I don't find you credible at all.

You can't support your position and can only attack straw man versions of ID.


Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply, that addresses specifically nothing I've written at all. Its hard to create a strawman of ID as it's proponentists aren't sure what it is either. When someone tries to clarify it, you're keen to point out "they don't speak for ID".

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,16:07   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 27 2010,15:11)
There's no use arguing about the details of the papers.  No, there is no ONE paper that will state exactly what you want to see... of course NO scientist would expect that.  It's ALL about the details and combining the details into a coherent picture...

[lots of cites]

Theses cites aren't evidence of anything. Joe is asking for evidence that a blind, purposeless chemical process can account for something that, by definition, can't arise from a blind, purposeless chemical process. Where's your cite for that? I thought as much.

Ya see the words "blind" and "chemical" and "purposeless" don't even appear in your fancy list. I don't even see a four-eyed no-account compound up to no good.  

Besides that's all ID research.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,16:49   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Dec. 27 2010,16:07)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Dec. 27 2010,15:11)
There's no use arguing about the details of the papers.  No, there is no ONE paper that will state exactly what you want to see... of course NO scientist would expect that.  It's ALL about the details and combining the details into a coherent picture...

[lots of cites]

Theses cites aren't evidence of anything. Joe is asking for evidence that a blind, purposeless chemical process can account for something that, by definition, can't arise from a blind, purposeless chemical process. Where's your cite for that? I thought as much.

Ya see the words "blind" and "chemical" and "purposeless" don't even appear in your fancy list. I don't even see a four-eyed no-account compound up to no good.  

Besides that's all ID research.

Dude... I think you've been doing this too long.  

That was spooky.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2010,18:42   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 27 2010,15:28)
Thanks for your detailed and well thought out reply, that addresses specifically nothing I've written at all. Its hard to create a strawman of ID as it's proponentists aren't sure what it is either. When someone tries to clarify it, you're keen to point out "they don't speak for ID".


(light bulb flickers on)

Yegads, a new application of the No True Scotsman fallacy!

"No True ID-iot".

You can't make stuff this crazy up, I tell you...


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
Steverino



Posts: 411
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2010,20:37   

JoeToolBag said:

"You can say ID is just a trojan horse for Creation but you don't have anything to support the claim."

mmmmmmmm....how does "cdesign proponentsists" work for ya.

From the Disco Institutes ass, to your mouth.

Enjoy, internet tuff guy

--------------
- Born right the first time.
- Asking questions is NOT the same as providing answers.
- It's all fun and games until the flying monkeys show up!

   
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2010,21:05   

It's Joey.  He's completely impervious to things like facts, logic, actual research of any given paper trail...


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
phhht



Posts: 38
Joined: Oct. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2010,06:11   

So, rectal itch, is your definition of "information" "bits per second," or what?

--------------
Je n'avais pas besoin de cette hypothese-la.
-- Pierre Simon Laplace, explaining the absence of any mention of God in his work

  
Stephen Elliott



Posts: 1754
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,04:25   

Quote (Joe G @ Dec. 27 2010,13:57)
   
Quote (MadPanda @ FCD,Dec. 27 2010,12:26)
Nice of you to drop your muppet, Joey.  Not that he'd have the courage to come here anyway...

ID is just a Trojan Horse version of creationism, full stop.  Protest as loud and as long as you like, but that's the plain and simple truth.  It's the proverbial warthog with a lot of lipstick.

You have nothing solid upon which to build a case.  Nobody in ID has a solid case.  They never will, because they aren't interested in doing the actual legwork and labwork required.  All they have is rhetoric.  I would go so far as to call them parasites, because they build their spin by leeching off of the hard work of actual scientists whose toil, effort, and discipline deserves more reward than being ganked by a bunch of spin doctors.

But go ahead and tell yourself that you know better than people who work with this stuff day in and day out.  Shriek as many insults as are needed to assuage your puny ego.  In the end, the only thing that matters is the evidence.

This may come as a shock to you, Joey, but there's this thing called the real world.  It's the bits of life that don't vanish when you stop believing in them.  Scientists work with it, not with circles in the sky and imaginary friends (yes, even those quantum physics types who are always on about uncertainty--they have the experiments to support their weirdness).


The MadPanda, FCD

I don't have a muppet you ignorant tool.

That is the problem with you assholes. You make an unwarranted inference and you stick to it as if it has some merit.

You can say ID is just a trojan horse for Creation but you don't have anything to support the claim.


Yes the real world, which you and you ignorant minions say is just an accident (Hawking). Too bad you don't have any positive evidence for that claim nor do you have any way to test that claim.

IOW you don't have any science on your side. And you sure as hell don't have any positive evidence. Otherwise you would post it along with a hypothesis.

Hey Joe,

You do know that the book of Pandas and people was a creationist book don't you? To change it to an ID book, all that needed to be done was to delete the words creator and creation and insert designer and design? If that is not a smoking gun to you, you are an idiot.  Oh, wait...

  
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,12:23   

But Pandas and People was just a forgery made up by those eeeevil darwin-worshiping atheist types to make the True BeLIEvers (tm pat pend) look like liars.  That it was put forward by those in support of ID-is-too-Sciencey folks only goes to show how completely they were fooled by this...

Wait, no, they can't be fooled 'cause they speak the Trooth (tm pat pend), so that means they must have...but the book's a dead giveaway...

Hey, it's Joey.  He's not nearly as clever as he thinks he is, nor as creative with his insults.  In his little world, all you need to overcome actual evidence is a sufficiently strong assertion.

Pathetic.


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1447
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,13:24   

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Dec. 30 2010,12:23)
But Pandas and People was just a forgery made up by those eeeevil darwin-worshiping atheist types to make the True BeLIEvers (tm pat pend) look like liars.  That it was put forward by those in support of ID-is-too-Sciencey folks only goes to show how completely they were fooled by this...

Wait, no, they can't be fooled 'cause they speak the Trooth (tm pat pend), so that means they must have...but the book's a dead giveaway...

Hey, it's Joey.  He's not nearly as clever as he thinks he is, nor as creative with his insults.  In his little world, all you need to overcome actual evidence is a sufficiently strong assertion.

Pathetic.


The MadPanda, FCD

A sufficiently strong assertion and calling people gay.

And threatening to come to your house.

A sufficiently strong assertion, calling people gay, and threatening to come to your house, and a sock-puppet named Kris.

I'll come in again.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,17:35   

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Dec. 30 2010,12:23)
But Pandas and People was just a forgery made up by those eeeevil darwin-worshiping atheist types to make the True BeLIEvers (tm pat pend) look like liars.  That it was put forward by those in support of ID-is-too-Sciencey folks only goes to show how completely they were fooled by this...

Wait, no, they can't be fooled 'cause they speak the Trooth (tm pat pend), so that means they must have...but the book's a dead giveaway...

Hey, it's Joey.  He's not nearly as clever as he thinks he is, nor as creative with his insults.  In his little world, all you need to overcome actual evidence is a sufficiently strong assertion.

Pathetic.


The MadPanda, FCD

I'll give it a 6.5 on the sincerity scale, but you really need to work on having more incorrect grammar, spellings, increase the use of CAPS, and be a little less nice with your assertions.

Don't give up, in a few more years of the JoeG Frontal Lobotomy school, you too can be completely immune to logic, reason, empathy AND act like an ass.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,19:29   

That only counts if I'm trying to pull a Poe.  :D  

I know better than to even attempt to compete with the utter nutters when it comes to underpants-on-the-head stream-of-consciousness rantage.


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
Badger3k



Posts: 861
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,19:49   

Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Dec. 30 2010,19:29)
That only counts if I'm trying to pull a Poe.  :D  

I know better than to even attempt to compete with the utter nutters when it comes to underpants-on-the-head stream-of-consciousness rantage.


The MadPanda, FCD

If your underpants are on your head, is your stream of consciousness golden?

--------------
"Just think if every species had a different genetic code We would have to eat other humans to survive.." : Joe G

  
MadPanda, FCD



Posts: 267
Joined: Nov. 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2010,19:52   

Quote (Badger3k @ Dec. 30 2010,19:49)

If your underpants are on your head, is your stream of consciousness golden?

I've no idea.

Anybody seen FL? He'd know the answer to this one...  :p


The MadPanda, FCD

--------------
"No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,13:30   

Hey Joe

Here's a good question for you... since you are wise (ahem) in the ways of ID.

If the designer is, as Behe, suggests time-travelling cell-biologists, then who designed them?

If the designer is, as others suggest, aliens, then who designed them?

In fact, with all but two choices, we have to ask the question who designed them?

So, my question is, which is the designer?  God -or- do we live in the Matrix?

Interesting conundrum for someone who professes to not believe in God.  

Can I assume you think we are all simulations in a computer system?

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,17:22   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 05 2011,13:30)
Hey Joe

Here's a good question for you... since you are wise (ahem) in the ways of ID.

If the designer is, as Behe, suggests time-travelling cell-biologists, then who designed them?

If the designer is, as others suggest, aliens, then who designed them?

In fact, with all but two choices, we have to ask the question who designed them?

So, my question is, which is the designer?  God -or- do we live in the Matrix?

Interesting conundrum for someone who professes to not believe in God.  

Can I assume you think we are all simulations in a computer system?

Yeah. Funny how people like Joe like to claim that ToE has theological implications, but crap themselves when asked about Designers.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Texas Teach



Posts: 1447
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,17:45   

Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 05 2011,13:30)
So, my question is, which is the designer?  God -or- do we live in the Matrix?

Not to give Joe too much help, but if we lived in the Matrix, wouldn't the food be better?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

"I suspect that the English grammar books where you live are outdated" --G. Gaulin

  
OgreMkV



Posts: 3654
Joined: Oct. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 05 2011,18:02   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 05 2011,17:45)
Quote (OgreMkV @ Jan. 05 2011,13:30)
So, my question is, which is the designer?  God -or- do we live in the Matrix?

Not to give Joe too much help, but if we lived in the Matrix, wouldn't the food be better?

Naw, the designers don't know what stuff tastes like, so everything tastes like chicken.

--------------
Ignored by those who can't provide evidence for their claims.

http://skepticink.com/smilodo....retreat

   
  9690 replies since Feb. 24 2010,12:00 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

Pages: (324) < ... 41 42 43 44 45 [46] 47 48 49 50 51 ... >   


Track this topic Email this topic Print this topic

[ Read the Board Rules ] | [Useful Links] | [Evolving Designs]