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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 3, The Beast Marches On...< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2010,20:13   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 19 2010,18:11)
(75 times.)

ETA: I double checked: every link is unique. KF reproduces this paragraph no fewer than 10 times in one lengthy thread.

Apt commentary on the state of UD and ID.

Research Post Of The Year.

Get your passport in order, and I hope Stockholm will have good weather for your visit.*



* Trip should be funded by The Templeton Foundation.
Or the Montserrat Tourist Board.  Just sacrifice a bull to Zeus that you don't get a seat next to GEM of Linkzilla.

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,03:17   

Behe, defending a creationist textbook:
 
Quote
it is also important to keep in mind that being generally accepted by the scientific community is no guarantee that a concept or purported fact is correct, and that while general features or concepts might be widely accepted, critical details of those concepts may be severely controverted. For example, in the 19 th century the physics community widely believed that outer space was filled with "ether", a medium that was then thought necessary to conduct light waves. Modern physics discounts the ether. Some modern physicists think the universe contains "dark energy" which drives an accelerating expansion; others dispute this. In biology, it had been thought that the demise of dinosaurs in the distant past coincided with the diversification of mammalian species; a recent paper, however, disputes that. And while most biologists think that Darwin's basic theory can account for the most important features of life, others dispute that. Thus the very concept of "knowledge generally accepted by the scientific community" is problematic, requiring a person to ignore the history and philosophy of science.


Turgid stuff. The funny thing is that I'm sure ID proponents would jump at the chance to teach ID in schools, but would they also want students to critically analyse ID? I doubt they'd want that to happen given that it's creationism in a suit which becomes obvious just from the outline alone!

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,03:36   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 19 2010,16:11)
(75 times.)

ETA: I double checked: every link is unique. KF reproduces this paragraph no fewer than 10 times in one lengthy thread.

Apt commentary on the state of UD and ID.

It'd almost be worth it to have an "Official Kairosfocus Lewontin Count" Thread. I shudder to think how many times the oil-of-ad-hominem-soaked strawman has appeared.

POTMFW.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Henry J



Posts: 5463
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,10:45   

Quote
Quote
And while most biologists think that Darwin's basic theory can account for the most important features of life, others dispute that.

I think it's not so much that it accounts for the specific features, it's that it accounts for the pattern that all the features fall into - i.e., that pesky nested hierarchy thing.

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,10:54   

Quote (J-Dog @ Oct. 19 2010,20:13)
* Trip should be funded by The Templeton Simpleton Foundation.

poast fixed.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,10:57   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 20 2010,10:54)
Quote (J-Dog @ Oct. 19 2010,20:13)
* Trip should be funded by The Templeton Simpleton Foundation.

poast fixed.

And WHERE have YOU been?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,11:04   

Someone remembers me :-) Rich!  I been around the world and ay ya ya. I can't find my baby..Oh wait, not really.

Man I have just been busier than all get out and the whole ID thing got boring (for me) sometime after Dover.  These days I just read the many Gnu atheist blogs and such and don't find time to participate in the many groovy forums like this one.

I am glad folks still find humor and irony at UD but ever since Davescot left it has lost it's maniacal zest, and now it's just tards leading the tards.  

I think this December will be the 6th anniversary of yet not one single scientific IDC experiment post Dover, yes?  What has the bible teacher Dembski been doing with his time?

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,11:13   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Oct. 20 2010,11:04)
Someone remembers me :-) Rich!  I been around the world and ay ya ya. I can't find my baby..Oh wait, not really.

Man I have just been busier than all get out and the whole ID thing got boring (for me) sometime after Dover.  These days I just read the many Gnu atheist blogs and such and don't find time to participate in the many groovy forums like this one.

I am glad folks still find humor and irony at UD but ever since Davescot left it has lost it's maniacal zest, and now it's just tards leading the tards.  

I think this December will be the 6th anniversary of yet not one single scientific IDC experiment post Dover, yes?  What has the bible teacher Dembski been doing with his time?

Gordon Mullings and Joe G just don't cut it - it's true. Plus they've given up pretending to be about science, it Lewis this and Chesterton that...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,11:22   

I dropped bu Heddle's hovel the other day and he said some funny stuff to say about UD and a commenter or two.  I had not been to his blog in years.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 525
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,14:25   

Interesting news: I just found out the Dembski has pretty unequivocably stated that he is a Biblical inerrantist, that he believes in a six day creation, the universal flood, and no common descent between humans and other creatures.  He has been non-committal and or waffled on these positions in the past.

In a statement called "Clarification Regarding My Book The End of Christianity", quoted in "A Reply to Tom Nettles’ Review of William A. Dembski’s The End of Christianity: Finding a Good God in an Evil World," by Dr. David L. Allen, The Center for Theological Research February 2010, Dembski has written,

Quote
In writing The End of Christianity today, I would also underscore three points: (1) As a biblical inerrantist, I accept the full verbal inspiration of the Bible and the conventional authorship of the books of the Bible. Thus, in particular, I accept Mosaic authorship of Genesis (and of the Pentateuch) and reject the Documentary Hypothesis. (2) Even though I introduce in the book a distinction between kairos (God’s time) and chronos (the world’s time), the two are not mutually exclusive. In particular, I accept that the events described in Genesis 1– 11 happened in ordinary space-time, and thus that these chapters are as historical as the rest of the Pentateuch. (3) I believe that Adam and Eve were real people, that as the initial pair of humans they were the progenitors of the whole human race, that they were specially created by God, and thus that they were not the result of an evolutionary process from primate or hominid ancestors. (William A. Dembski)"


Might be interesting, if the opportunity arise, for someone to mention this over at UD.

Links:

http://www.sbts.edu/resourc....er-2009

http://www.baptisttheology.org/documen....ity.pdf

P.S - or maybe this is old news?

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,14:31   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Oct. 20 2010,14:25)
Interesting news: I just found out the Dembski has pretty unequivocably stated that he is a Biblical inerrantist, that he believes in a six day creation, the universal flood, and no common descent between humans and other creatures.  He has been non-committal and or waffled on these positions in the past.

In a statement called "Clarification Regarding My Book The End of Christianity", quoted in "A Reply to Tom Nettles’ Review of William A. Dembski’s The End of Christianity: Finding a Good God in an Evil World," by Dr. David L. Allen, The Center for Theological Research February 2010, Dembski has written,

Quote
In writing The End of Christianity today, I would also underscore three points: (1) As a biblical inerrantist, I accept the full verbal inspiration of the Bible and the conventional authorship of the books of the Bible. Thus, in particular, I accept Mosaic authorship of Genesis (and of the Pentateuch) and reject the Documentary Hypothesis. (2) Even though I introduce in the book a distinction between kairos (God’s time) and chronos (the world’s time), the two are not mutually exclusive. In particular, I accept that the events described in Genesis 1– 11 happened in ordinary space-time, and thus that these chapters are as historical as the rest of the Pentateuch. (3) I believe that Adam and Eve were real people, that as the initial pair of humans they were the progenitors of the whole human race, that they were specially created by God, and thus that they were not the result of an evolutionary process from primate or hominid ancestors. (William A. Dembski)"


Might be interesting, if the opportunity arise, for someone to mention this over at UD.

Links:

http://www.sbts.edu/resourc....er-2009

http://www.baptisttheology.org/documen....ity.pdf

Oh, Today just got interesting...

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,14:38   

ETA: Looks like Jack beat me to it.

Fun reading:

HOW OLD? Age of Earth debated among SBC scholars

Some choice excerpts:
Quote
[Dembski] also argued that Noah’s flood likely was limited to the Middle East rather than being global in scope. However, he later retracted that claim in a statement released by Southwestern.

Quote
Southwestern Seminary president Paige Patterson told the Witness that while he disagrees with Dembski’s assessment of the earth’s age, he is confident of his character, Christian commitment and adherence to the Baptist Faith & Message.

Patterson said that when Dembski’s questionable statements came to light, he convened a meeting with Dembski and several high-ranking administrators at the seminary. At that meeting, Dembski was quick to admit that he was wrong about the flood, Patterson said.

“Had I had any inkling that Dr. Dembski was actually denying the absolute trustworthiness of the Bible, then that would have, of course, ended his relationship with the school,” he said.

Quote
[Patterson] noted that even Southern Baptists who disagree with Dembski on the age of the earth should appreciate his contribution toward defeating naturalism.

“This is the man who has gone all over the United States debating the evolutionists successfully to the point that it’s almost impossible to get one of them to have a public debate with him now,” he said of Dembski.

Dembski's retraction appears here:
Quote
Yet, in a brief section on Genesis 4–11, I weigh in on the Flood, raising questions about its universality, without adequate study or reflection on my part. Before I write on this topic again, I have much exegetical, historical, and theological work to do. In any case, not only Genesis 6–9 but also Jesus in Matthew 24 and Peter in Second Peter seem clearly to teach that the Flood was universal. As a biblical inerrantist, I believe that what the Bible teaches is true and bow to the text, including its teaching about the Flood and its universality.


Evidently, Billy will say anything to hold on to his cafeteria privileges at SWBTS.

P.S. Hi, Mr. C!

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And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,14:42   

ID: Don't let facts get in the way of you Dogma Preconceptions Research.

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 525
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,14:58   

Hi Keith - I posted a bit before you because you actually read stuff, and I just passed on the news: maybe we got this from the same source?

Anyway, it's pretty interesting - follow the evidence wherever it leads. Yeah, right.

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:00   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Oct. 20 2010,12:42)
ID: Don't let facts get in the way of you Dogma Preconceptions Research desire to not get fired.

Fixed.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:01   

O'Leary is having a whine abooooooowt Peer Review.

http://www.uncommondescent.com/peer-re....se-days

As we've just learned, clearly 'Bible Preview' is where it's at.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:25   

Quote
He also argued that Noah’s flood likely was limited to the Middle East rather than being global in scope. However, he later retracted that claim in a statement released by Southwestern.

This is perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read in relation to ID. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin again?

I can't wait until the next court case!

EDIT:
 
Quote
“This is the man who has gone all over the United States debating the evolutionists successfully to the point that it’s almost impossible to get one of them to have a public debate with him now,” he said of Dembski.


What a bunch of delusional muppets.

EDIT EDIT: I can't actually read that article in one go. It's unbearable.

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:31   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 20 2010,15:25)
How many angels can dance on the head of a pin again?

How many pin-heads can dance with angels?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:32   

Nice work PZ:

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/10/are_we_at_all_surprised.php

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:33   

PZ is on the case

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/10/are_we_at_all_surprised.php

How long until this gets mentioned at UD I wonder...

--------------
I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:33   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Oct. 20 2010,15:25)
Quote
He also argued that Noah’s flood likely was limited to the Middle East rather than being global in scope. However, he later retracted that claim in a statement released by Southwestern.

This is perhaps the funniest thing I've ever read in relation to ID. How many angels can dance on the head of a pin again?

I can't wait until the next court case!

EDIT:
 
Quote
“This is the man who has gone all over the United States debating the evolutionists successfully to the point that it’s almost impossible to get one of them to have a public debate with him now,” he said of Dembski.


What a bunch of delusional muppets.

While I suspect that he made that statement just to keep his job, it certainly puts the final nail in the coffin of "ID is science."  You have to reject pretty much all of modern science to claim that a global flood actually occurred or that Adam and Eve were historical figures.

  
MichaelJ



Posts: 462
Joined: June 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,15:52   

Poor Bill,

Obviously the ID biz doesn't pay enough to tell the college to FO. He must be worried about being Expelled.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,16:01   

Evolution is the least of Dr. Dr. Bill Dembski YEC's concerns. He should be gunning for cosmology first!

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Seversky



Posts: 442
Joined: June 2010

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,16:04   

Granted that Dembski's life was not under threat here but there are, nonetheless, chilling echoes of wayward believers being browbeaten into recanting their heretical views by the Inquisition or dissidents being forced to toe the party line in Stalinist Russia or Maoist China.

Since he affirms the literal truth of the Bible, perhaps he should be reminded of the story of Esau in Genesis who sold his birthright to his brother Jacob for a meal of lentil stew, which gave rise the saying about selling one's birthright for a mess of pottage.  Dembski has sold his scientific credibility, such as it was, for belief in a potty message.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,16:15   

Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 20 2010,16:04)
Dembski has sold his scientific credibility, such as it was, for belief in a potty message.

One can only wonder if he was self-aware enough to sell short.

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,16:22   

Oh, I'm also naming the parlance of UD, TT etc as Jebonics© before someone else comes up with it.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,16:50   

Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 20 2010,17:04)
Granted that Dembski's life was not under threat here but there are, nonetheless, chilling echoes of wayward believers being browbeaten into recanting their heretical views by the Inquisition or dissidents being forced to toe the party line in Stalinist Russia or Maoist China.

That was my impression: The Thought Police arrived to enforce right thinking, and he quickly got back into line.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11172
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,16:57   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Oct. 20 2010,16:50)
Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 20 2010,17:04)
Granted that Dembski's life was not under threat here but there are, nonetheless, chilling echoes of wayward believers being browbeaten into recanting their heretical views by the Inquisition or dissidents being forced to toe the party line in Stalinist Russia or Maoist China.

That was my impression: The Thought Police arrived to enforce right thinking, and he quickly got back into line.

Follow the Nevidence whenever it leads (to the cafeteria)

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4937
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,17:43   

Quote (Seversky @ Oct. 20 2010,16:04)
Granted that Dembski's life was not under threat here but there are, nonetheless, chilling echoes of wayward believers being browbeaten into recanting their heretical views by the Inquisition or dissidents being forced to toe the party line in Stalinist Russia or Maoist China.

Since he affirms the literal truth of the Bible, perhaps he should be reminded of the story of Esau in Genesis who sold his birthright to his brother Jacob for a meal of lentil stew, which gave rise the saying about selling one's birthright for a mess of pottage.  Dembski has sold his scientific credibility, such as it was, for belief in a potty message.

There have been a couple of ecclesiastical trials for heresy within the past fifteen years here in the USA over people not being sufficiently YEC-y. Dembski apparently wasn't willing to make it three.

That should take Dembski's 'I could live with evolution if I had to' argument right off the table.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
JohnW



Posts: 3215
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2010,17:54   

Quote (keiths @ Oct. 20 2010,12:38)
Dembski's retraction appears here:
Quote
Yet, in a brief section on Genesis 4–11, I weigh in on the Flood, raising questions about its universality, without adequate study or reflection on my part. Before I write on this topic again, I have much exegetical, historical, and theological work to do. In any case, not only Genesis 6–9 but also Jesus in Matthew 24 and Peter in Second Peter seem clearly to teach that the Flood was universal. As a biblical inerrantist, I believe that what the Bible teaches is true and bow to the text, including its teaching about the Flood and its universality.


Evidently, Billy will say anything to hold on to his cafeteria privileges at SWBTS.

P.S. Hi, Mr. C!

If he does mean what he says, this is the money shot - if Dr Dr D's beliefs are incompatible with reality, then reality must be wrong.

I wonder whether he'd be this forthright on the witness stand.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it. - Robert Byers

There isn't any probability that the letter d is in the word "mathematics"...  The correct answer would be "not even 0" - JoeG

  
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