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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,09:57   

Quote (Quack @ Jan. 25 2009,10:09)
Man is not guided by his genes and instincts only, we are the victims of heavy conditioning and indoctrination whether we like it or not.

I don't disagree, Quack. Here is my take, which I've posted before and don't think I can improve upon:

It seems axiomatic to me that any person, at any given moment, expresses three tiers of history: one’s personal history, the history of the culture in which one is embedded, and evolutionary history. These are progressively more general, yet expressed simultaneously. As I write these words, I express ideas that arise from a personal history that is in many ways contingent and idiosyncratic - as is everyone’s - hence the uniqueness and incompleteness of my subjective view of the world.  Simultaneously, these words carry forward elements of my enclosing culture, in that their lexical meanings and grammatical functions were historically established and stabilized within our language community over no more than the last 7000 years, the span over which languages as diverse as Sanskrit, Gaelic, Latin, and Greek evolved from a common linguistic ancestor. Hence their appearance here simultaneously reflects something of my own purposing and a contingent thread of Western linguistic history, as carried forward in both writer and reader. Also reflected herein is our human evolutionary heritage. Arguably, the ability to both construct and comprehend grammatically complex speech is an evolutionary adaptation of the human species (e.g., Pinker and The Language Instinct).

Nested at still greater removes are aspects of hominid, primate, mammalian, and vertebrate organization, reflecting progressively deeper evolutionary origins and increasingly ancient expressions of chance and contingency.  

All told, each of us carries forward, and is embedded in, an astounding quantity of personal, cultural and biological history, with the result that many human psychological states often carry “the ancient alongside the new” (thank you Daniel Povinelli). On this view, there is no necessary contradiction between explanations at the individual, cultural, and evolutionary levels; all may, and oftentimes must, operate simultaneously in human behavior.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,13:10   

Quote
jerry: Pubdef,

Your arguments are fatuous. They seem more like an attempts of a disruptive toddler rather than constructive adult.

Quote
jerry: Mark Frank,

I don’t want to leave you out. So thank you too for your inane arguments.


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Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
mitschlag



Posts: 235
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,13:26   

Quote (Zachriel @ Jan. 25 2009,13:10)
 
Quote
jerry: Pubdef,

Your arguments are fatuous. They seem more like an attempts of a disruptive toddler rather than constructive adult.

 
Quote
jerry: Mark Frank,

I don’t want to leave you out. So thank you too for your inane arguments.

That's jerry.  Polite in disagreement and incisive in argument.

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"You can establish any “rule” you like if you start with the rule and then interpret the evidence accordingly." - George Gaylord Simpson (1902-1984)

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1981
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,15:19   

johnnyb complains that the University of Oklahoma is running a series of talks about evolution, but is one-sided in only inviting speakers who will talk about evolution.

sparc responds  
Quote
1

sparc

01/25/2009

4:49 am

Didn’t Dr. Dembski present his version of “The inner life of the cell” at OU just recently?

Naughty boy!

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,15:45   

Patrick offers another gem of wisdom:
 
Quote
I could artificially breed squirrels and presumably I could eventually produce a flying squirrel. But what if I could not?

I'm sure Patrick is sitting under a giant cardboard pyramid while he types his "wisdom".

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3576
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,17:12   

I could breed chihuahuas and presumably eventually produce a great Dane, but what if I could not?

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
hereoisreal



Posts: 745
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,17:38   

My dog thinks he's human but my cat thinks she's God.

--------------
360  miracles and more at:
http://www.hereoisreal.com/....eal.com

Great news. God’s wife is pregnant! (Rev. 12:5)

It's not over till the fat lady sings! (Isa. 54:1 & Zec 9:9)

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,18:16   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 25 2009,16:45)
Patrick offers another gem of wisdom:
 
Quote
I could artificially breed squirrels and presumably I could eventually produce a flying squirrel. But what if I could not?

I'm sure Patrick is sitting under a giant cardboard pyramid while he types his "wisdom".

That made me chuckle. I picture him in a tinfoil pirate hat, sitting crosslegged on the floor of his cardboard pyramid. I'm just undecided as to whether he's on his mom's living room carpet or her basement floor.

Also, did he use shipping tape or duct tape?

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Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 235
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,18:40   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Jan. 24 2009,09:06)
Always interesting to peel one of Denyse's stinking onions.

stevestory can help you slice it instead...

Long post, but a good one once I made it through. Thanks for the effort.

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"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,18:40   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 25 2009,15:12)
I could breed chihuahuas and presumably eventually produce a great Dane, but what if I could not?

let's take this theme and run with it...

I could destroy Darwinism by posting on a blog. But what if I could not?

I could out-bicycle Lance Armstrong. But what if I could not?

I could design an automobile engine that ran on salt water. But what if I could not?

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 235
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,18:46   

Denyse:
   
Quote
I am really going to miss Richard John Neuhaus, who slipped away January 8 (1936-2008), quite unexpectedly, and is NOT an example of the problem I am commenting on here.

For someone she is really going to miss, it took her long enough to notice.


[excuse me...what's that?...I have the wrong date on my check...doesn't everyone make that mistake?]

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"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

  
Tony M Nyphot



Posts: 235
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,18:49   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Jan. 25 2009,17:40)
   
Quote (midwifetoad @ Jan. 25 2009,15:12)
I could breed chihuahuas and presumably eventually produce a great Dane, but what if I could not?

let's take this theme and run with it...

I could destroy Darwinism by posting on a blog. But what if I could not?

I could out-bicycle Lance Armstrong. But what if I could not?

I could design an automobile engine that ran on salt water. But what if I could not?

[Dembski]

I could don a small sweater. But what if I could not?

[/Dembski]

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"I, OTOH, am an underachiever...I either pee my pants or faint dead away..." FTK

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1045
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,19:53   

Earlier this season there was a brilliant episode of My Name is Earl where the ex-wife tries to win a science fair by disproving evolution. Her plan:  Making a fish try to evolve legs to get the food she has placed out of reach.  Unfortunately for her she uses a tadpole.  Her conclusion on seeing the results: "I guess we don't have to go to church any more."

I very much imagine our friends at UD at that level in their efforts.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
noncarborundum



Posts: 320
Joined: Jan. 2009

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,20:17   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 25 2009,19:53)
Earlier this season there was a brilliant episode of My Name is Earl where the ex-wife tries to win a science fair by disproving evolution. Her plan:  Making a fish try to evolve legs to get the food she has placed out of reach.  Unfortunately for her she uses a tadpole.  Her conclusion on seeing the results: "I guess we don't have to go to church any more."

I very much imagine our friends at UD at that level in their efforts.

But she actually performed the experiment.  Doesn' that put her one up on the UDenizens?

--------------
"The . . . um . . . okay, I was genetically selected for blue eyes.  I know there are brown eyes, because I've observed them, but I can't do it.  Okay?  So . . . um . . . coz that's real genetic selection, not the nonsense Giberson and the others are talking about." - DO'L

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1045
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,20:46   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 25 2009,20:17)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 25 2009,19:53)
Earlier this season there was a brilliant episode of My Name is Earl where the ex-wife tries to win a science fair by disproving evolution. Her plan:  Making a fish try to evolve legs to get the food she has placed out of reach.  Unfortunately for her she uses a tadpole.  Her conclusion on seeing the results: "I guess we don't have to go to church any more."

I very much imagine our friends at UD at that level in their efforts.

But she actually performed the experiment.  Doesn' that put her one up on the UDenizens?

I'll go sit in the corner and think about what I did.

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,20:58   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 25 2009,18:16)

Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,21:15   

Quote (Maya @ Jan. 25 2009,21:58)
[quote=Lou FCD,Jan. 25 2009,18:16][/quote]
Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

Thank you, Maya.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
khan



Posts: 1483
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,21:15   

Quote (Maya @ Jan. 25 2009,21:58)
[quote=Lou FCD,Jan. 25 2009,18:16][/quote]
Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

I didn't want to feed his ego with too much admiration.

--------------
"It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall

That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,21:20   

Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2009,22:15)
Quote (Maya @ Jan. 25 2009,21:58)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 25 2009,18:16)

Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

I didn't want to feed his ego with too much admiration.

Thank you for keeping me grounded, Khan.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,21:54   

Quote (Maya @ Jan. 25 2009,18:58)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 25 2009,18:16)

Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

Trust me, the picture is way too flattering. I happen to know for a fact that this is a much more accurate picture of what Lou really looks like:



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
stevestory



Posts: 8959
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,22:11   

Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 25 2009,21:17)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 25 2009,19:53)
Earlier this season there was a brilliant episode of My Name is Earl where the ex-wife tries to win a science fair by disproving evolution. Her plan:  Making a fish try to evolve legs to get the food she has placed out of reach.  Unfortunately for her she uses a tadpole.  Her conclusion on seeing the results: "I guess we don't have to go to church any more."

I very much imagine our friends at UD at that level in their efforts.

But she actually performed the experiment.  Doesn't that put her one up on the UDenizens?

LOL yep. They would just sit around and blog about what would happen.

   
tsig



Posts: 322
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,23:15   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 25 2009,21:20)
Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2009,22:15)
Quote (Maya @ Jan. 25 2009,21:58)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 25 2009,18:16)

Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

I didn't want to feed his ego with too much admiration.

Thank you for keeping me grounded, Khan.

Is that what they're calling it now?

  
tsig



Posts: 322
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,23:17   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 25 2009,22:11)
Quote (noncarborundum @ Jan. 25 2009,21:17)
Quote (Texas Teach @ Jan. 25 2009,19:53)
Earlier this season there was a brilliant episode of My Name is Earl where the ex-wife tries to win a science fair by disproving evolution. Her plan:  Making a fish try to evolve legs to get the food she has placed out of reach.  Unfortunately for her she uses a tadpole.  Her conclusion on seeing the results: "I guess we don't have to go to church any more."

I very much imagine our friends at UD at that level in their efforts.

But she actually performed the experiment.  Doesn't that put her one up on the UDenizens?

LOL yep. They would just sit around and blog about what would happen.

They would let her do the experiment and then quote mine the result claiming that ID predicted it all along.

  
stevestory



Posts: 8959
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2009,23:47   

The inimitable StephenB

Quote
Would anyone care to clone human beings as sex slaves? Step right up, our scientists are ready.

   
CeilingCat



Posts: 1671
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2009,00:51   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 25 2009,23:47)
The inimitable StephenB

   
Quote
Would anyone care to clone human beings as sex slaves? Step right up, our scientists are ready.

Jeezus!  I was thinking of Deneyse and suddenly that message came up.

Must ... wash ... in ... fire .........

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Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
stevestory



Posts: 8959
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2009,01:47   

How long before this shows up at UD as proof of ID?

   
utidjian



Posts: 185
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2009,02:29   

Quote (stevestory @ Jan. 26 2009,01:47)
How long before this shows up at UD as proof of ID?

Why? Because Abbie uses "machinery'? (and we all know that "machines" are "designed" by an "intelligence")

Woah!! What a head rush.... I think I am coming down with the tard. I feel sick :puke:

-DU-

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Being laughed at doesn't mean you're progressing along some line. It probably just means you're saying some stupid shit -stevestory

  
stevestory



Posts: 8959
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2009,04:23   

Allen MacNeill tries to teach the UD cretins basic biology. As usual, the ID types are several decades late to the party, and wrong to boot.

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2009,07:18   

Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 26 2009,03:20)
Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2009,22:15)
Quote (Maya @ Jan. 25 2009,21:58)
Quote (Lou FCD @ Jan. 25 2009,18:16)

Lou,

Just in case you haven't been receiving admiring private email, I love the new avatar.

All the boys (except Arden) here are no doubt too jealous and homophobic (except Arden) to note it.

Maya

I didn't want to feed his ego with too much admiration.

Thank you for keeping me grounded, Khan.

{ahem}

Speaking of keeping you grounded, I think I did my part. Mind you, I may have overdone it just a teeeeeeeeeeeeeeensy bit.

I have the number of a very good therapist if you're having self esteem issues....

;-)

Louis

--------------
Bye.

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2598
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Jan. 26 2009,07:47   

Quote
djmullen: Let’s use an extremely small bacteria, one with only a single protein gene... Dembski and Marks seem to think the bacteria has to find this sequence via some sort of a search process, which starts with every conceivable DNA sequence that will fit into the gene and rejects all but the single sequence of DNA bases that will produce the correct protein... What the bacteria does instead is much simpler - it merely makes an exact copy of its DNA, including the section that codes for that protein, and hands that copy down to its offspring... Suppose that a single base-pair in one of the 500 protein genes gets mutated during reproduction. That means that the other 499 protein genes are good ones because they didn’t mutate and are identical to their parent’s. So the bacteria isn’t chosing a point in the search space at random, it’s choosing a point that is so close to where it started from that 499 out of 500 protein genes are known to be correct.

JayM: That was an incredibly lucid explanation, thank you.

I would agree. I would only emphasize that we're talking about a population. So even if a particular bacteria suffers a significantly deleterious mutation, there are plenty of sisters that have the original complement of genes. Some variations can have both beneficial and deleterious effects, and in a changing environment, there may be an ebb-and-flow. Indeed, a natural population typically consists of many competing varieties.

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Tard Acquisition and Repository Department

   
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