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  Topic: Uncommonly Dense Thread 2, general discussion of Dembski's site< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,13:21   

More StephenB:
   
Quote
We know that, according to our experience, functionally complex specified information always indicates design. Not often, not once in a while, but always. Science proceeds on the assumption that we live in a rational universe and that laws, chance, and design are all part of the overall operation of the cosmos.

Given that fact, ...

Sometimes I get the feeling that in reality there're two parallel universes, one in which people like StephenB live, and ours. It's only by some glitch in the fabric of the universe that we can read UD.

Tribune7
   
Quote
If you find something not designed that has CSI, Dembski’s null hypothesis is false.

Now tell me, how would you know that something that exhibits CSI was not designed if your only proposed "method" to identify design is looking for CSI?

Enquiring minds want to know.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,13:51   

Quote (JLT @ Dec. 04 2008,19:21)
Sometimes I get the feeling that in reality there're two parallel universes, one in which people like StephenB live, and ours. It's only by some glitch in the fabric of the universe that we can read UD.

Do you suggest some sort of tardum tunneling phenomenon? That given enough energy, tard may tunnel through a rationality potential barrier instead of bouncing back into the UD echo chamber.

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1991
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:11   

[quote=dogdidit,Dec. 04 2008,11:55]
Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 04 2008,09:34)
 
Wrote a textbook on statistics and is apparently a Zapatista:    
Quote
Olofsson: Basta!

Basta is Swedish for sauna.

Over here in Finland it is well known that basta is of inferior quality, and so we should feel sorry for Prof. Olofsson.

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:16   

The one time I read a Densye O'Leary post, I had to follow the link farm, I find out that I missed a lecture by Dr. Egnor on where eugenics came from (Darwin, of course).  My loss! :D

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:20   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 04 2008,14:11)
 
Quote (dogdidit @ Dec. 04 2008,11:55)
   
Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 04 2008,09:34)
 
Wrote a textbook on statistics and is apparently a Zapatista:        
Quote
Olofsson: Basta!

Basta is Swedish for sauna.

Over here in Finland it is well known that basta is of inferior quality, and so we should feel sorry for Prof. Olofsson.

And of course "sauna" as we all know is from the latin phrase mens sauna in corpore sano, which loosely translates to "The men's sauna is off limits to corporate crazies".

edited to fix that wacky iB code schtuff

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:26   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Dec. 04 2008,20:11)
Basta is Swedish for sauna.

Over here in Finland it is well known that basta is of inferior quality, and so we should feel sorry for Prof. Olofsson.

<know-it-all-jerk>
Basta is the verb form, that is "to use a sauna". Bastu is the noun.
</know-it-all-jerk>

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 197
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:39   

[quote=Bob O'H,Dec. 04 2008,14:11]  
Quote (dogdidit @ Dec. 04 2008,11:55)
   
Quote (Zachriel @ Dec. 04 2008,09:34)
 
Wrote a textbook on statistics and is apparently a Zapatista:        
Quote
Olofsson: Basta!

Basta is Swedish for sauna.

Over here in Finland it is well known that basta is of inferior quality, and so we should feel sorry for Prof. Olofsson.

Bastu is swedish for sauna, not basta.

Some day I'll show you how to go to sauna, the traditional style.


--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
Amadan



Posts: 1264
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:44   



Say it’s not true! The Filter Explanat’ry
No longer will feature in Dembski’s inanity.
Exquisitely tuned to rule out coarse reality
Its meaningless jargon bejewelled his banality.
DaveTard who once proudly the filter did bruit
Now firmly maintains that he always saw through it.
Denyse never managed to work out the numbers
But she knew it was right, and so onward she lumbers.
And the rest of the sheep meekly follow their lead,
And patiently wait for the Doctor’s next screed –
A Bayesian search for Noah’s lost Ark,
Which it finds in the Baylor Cafeteria Car Park.



Edited by Lou FCD on Dec. 04 2008,16:00

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:45   

Quote (dnmlthr @ Dec. 04 2008,19:51)
   
Quote (JLT @ Dec. 04 2008,19:21)
Sometimes I get the feeling that in reality there're two parallel universes, one in which people like StephenB live, and ours. It's only by some glitch in the fabric of the universe that we can read UD.

Do you suggest some sort of tardum tunneling phenomenon? That given enough energy, tard may tunnel through a rationality potential barrier instead of bouncing back into the UD echo chamber.

Maybe if the tard is sufficently denyse it disturbs the spacetime continuum and tardwholes open up.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
JohnW



Posts: 2294
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:50   

Quote (Amadan @ Dec. 04 2008,12:44)


Say it’s not true! The Filter Explanat’ry
No longer will feature in Dembski’s inanity.
Exquisitely tuned to rule out coarse reality
Its meaningless jargon bejewelled his banality.
DaveTard who once proudly the filter did bruit
Now firmly maintains that he always saw through it.
Denyse never managed to work out the numbers
But she knew it was right, and so onward she lumbers.
And the rest of the sheep meekly follow their lead,
And patiently wait for the Doctor’s next screed –
A Bayesian search for Noah’s lost Ark,
Which it finds in the Baylor Cafeteria Car Park.

Post of the week.  Also post of last week and next week.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,14:59   

Quote (JohnW @ Dec. 04 2008,14:50)
 
Quote (Amadan @ Dec. 04 2008,12:44)


Say it’s not true! The Filter Explanat’ry
No longer will feature in Dembski’s inanity.
Exquisitely tuned to rule out coarse reality
Its meaningless jargon bejewelled his banality.
DaveTard who once proudly the filter did bruit
Now firmly maintains that he always saw through it.
Denyse never managed to work out the numbers
But she knew it was right, and so onward she lumbers.
And the rest of the sheep meekly follow their lead,
And patiently wait for the Doctor’s next screed –
A Bayesian search for Noah’s lost Ark,
Which it finds in the Baylor Cafeteria Car Park.

Post of the week.  Also post of last week and next week.

HOMOS. I NEW IT WAS POST OF THE WEEK AT FIRST GLANTS. IN FACT, I KNEW THAT LAST WEEK, SO IT WILL BE POST OF NEXT WEEK IF WE MAKE IT POST OF THE WEEK THIS WEEK. GOT THAT? RIGHT THAT DOWN

- DAVETARD

--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4511
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,15:09   

Vindication

Back at the February 1997 NTSE conference, when I brought up the "traveling salesman problem" solved by genetic algorithm as an example that countered Dembski's EF, he responded that his logic was sound and his premises were true, therefore his conclusion followed. Dembski in that instant dismissed empirical data as having any bearing on his work. It only took the better part of twelve years for Dembski to repudiate the soundness of his logic presented then.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4511
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,15:14   

The tombstone should be 1996-2008, though.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Maya



Posts: 702
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,15:17   

Quote (JLT @ Dec. 04 2008,14:45)
Quote (dnmlthr @ Dec. 04 2008,19:51)
   
Quote (JLT @ Dec. 04 2008,19:21)
Sometimes I get the feeling that in reality there're two parallel universes, one in which people like StephenB live, and ours. It's only by some glitch in the fabric of the universe that we can read UD.

Do you suggest some sort of tardum tunneling phenomenon? That given enough energy, tard may tunnel through a rationality potential barrier instead of bouncing back into the UD echo chamber.

Maybe if the tard is sufficently denyse it disturbs the spacetime continuum and tardwholes open up.

So does that make Davey the tardhole or the mentally slow janitor lazily sweeping up the anti-tard particles to prevent them from accumulating and blocking it?

  
Amadan



Posts: 1264
Joined: Jan. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,15:24   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 04 2008,15:14)
The tombstone should be 1996-2008, though.

Voilá!



With glorious labours of shock-artists from Bakh-Byondov Air-Brush and Turnip-Canning Kollektiv, History is always ideologically korrect!

--------------
"People are always looking for natural selection to generate random mutations" - Densye  4-4-2011
JoeG BTW dumbass- some variations help ensure reproductive fitness so they cannot be random wrt it.

   
carlsonjok



Posts: 3324
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,15:32   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 04 2008,15:14)
The tombstone should be 1996-2008, though.

BWHAHAHAHA.

The first line at that link reads:
Quote
What is science going to look like once Intelligent Design succeeds?




--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4368
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,16:29   

Quote (Amadan @ Dec. 04 2008,14:44)
Say it’s not true! The Filter Explanat’ry
No longer will feature in Dembski’s inanity.
Exquisitely tuned to rule out coarse reality
Its meaningless jargon bejewelled his banality.
DaveTard who once proudly the filter did bruit
Now firmly maintains that he always saw through it.
Denyse never managed to work out the numbers
But she knew it was right, and so onward she lumbers.
And the rest of the sheep meekly follow their lead,
And patiently wait for the Doctor’s next screed –
A Bayesian search for Noah’s lost Ark,
Which it finds in the Baylor Cafeteria Car Park.


Could this be POTY at UD too?

Anyone have a puppet that they are willing to sacrifice for posterity?  Anyone?

Amadan - excellent!  Post Of The Year so far...

--------------
Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
steve_h



Posts: 533
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,17:24   

This EF news is bound to give an almighty shock to all of the fire investigators, policemen, art forgery experts,  and judges who have been using Dembski's design detection techniques all these years. And many people who have been sent to the electic chair are going to need retrials !!!1

ETA: and many more will be concerned that Dembski is to concentrate on the CSI part of the EF as that was the one bit that nobody knew how to use (apart from the ol' "read Dembski's book and all become clear" bluff)

  
dheddle



Posts: 530
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,18:04   

Has anyone addressed the ramifications for the more tested Nixplanatory Filter?

--------------
Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3590
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,18:15   

Quote
This EF news is bound to give an almighty shock to all of the fire investigators, policemen, art forgery experts,  and judges who have been using Dembski's design detection techniques all these years. And many people who have been sent to the electic chair are going to need retrials !!!1


I'm not aware that Dembski invented forensic science, nor the techniques used to detect human manufacture of artifacts.

What Dembski seems to have invented is a technique for the detection of unspecified actions performed by unspecified agents having unspecified capabilities and motives, acting at unspecified times and places.

And calling the result specified complexity.

Oddly enough, producing a nested hierarchy, the fingerprint of human design.

Not.

--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3590
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,20:05   

Quote (dheddle @ Dec. 04 2008,18:04)
Has anyone addressed the ramifications for the more tested Nixplanatory Filter?

I do believe anyone trying to mock Dembski regarding his failure to consider unknown sequences of events should consider the following dictum:

Quote
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know.


--------------
”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
Hermagoras



Posts: 1260
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,20:26   

[peeking in]

Damn, this Olofsson smackdown is the best thing on UD in years.  How long can it play out?  Will Olofsson lose patience before he's banned?  

[ducking out]

--------------
"I am not currently proving that objective morality is true. I did that a long time ago and you missed it." -- StephenB

http://paralepsis.blogspot.com/....pot.com

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4244
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,20:37   

Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 04 2008,21:05)
Quote (dheddle @ Dec. 04 2008,18:04)
Has anyone addressed the ramifications for the more tested Nixplanatory Filter?

I do believe anyone trying to mock Dembski regarding his failure to consider unknown sequences of events should consider the following dictum:

Quote
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know.

I'm still trying to work out the quadrant in which there are knowns that I don't know that I know.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
stevestory



Posts: 8992
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,21:06   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Dec. 04 2008,21:26)
[peeking in]

Damn, this Olofsson smackdown is the best thing on UD in years.  How long can it play out?  Will Olofsson lose patience before he's banned?  

[ducking out]

If I may give the benefit of 3-4 years of following UD: When an expert in a field shows up, banning is virtually inevitable. The expert simply points out too many basic errors and sloppy arguments. He has to go. Olofsson is virtually guaranteed a banning if he doesn't leave first.

   
keiths



Posts: 2041
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,21:27   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Dec. 04 2008,18:37)
 
Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 04 2008,21:05)
 
Quote (dheddle @ Dec. 04 2008,18:04)
Has anyone addressed the ramifications for the more tested Nixplanatory Filter?

I do believe anyone trying to mock Dembski regarding his failure to consider unknown sequences of events should consider the following dictum:
Quote
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know.

I'm still trying to work out the quadrant in which there are knowns that I don't know that I know.

That would be the fact that you know how to do needlepoint, but don't realize it.

--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number.  -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5379
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,22:00   

Quote (keiths @ Dec. 04 2008,22:27)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Dec. 04 2008,18:37)
 
Quote (midwifetoad @ Dec. 04 2008,21:05)
   
Quote (dheddle @ Dec. 04 2008,18:04)
Has anyone addressed the ramifications for the more tested Nixplanatory Filter?

I do believe anyone trying to mock Dembski regarding his failure to consider unknown sequences of events should consider the following dictum:
Quote
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns—the ones we don’t know we don’t know.

I'm still trying to work out the quadrant in which there are knowns that I don't know that I know.

That would be the fact that you know how to do needlepoint, but don't realize it.

Yes, but now that he knows he doesn't know he knows, it's no longer in that quadrant.

--------------
Lou FCD is still in school, so we should only count him as a baby biologist. -carlsonjok -deprecated
I think I might love you. Don't tell Deadman -Wolfhound

Work-friendly photography
NSFW photography

   
Henry J



Posts: 4098
Joined: Mar. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 04 2008,22:20   

"Now that I know there's something to know, I can't not know just because I'm afraid somebody'll know I know, you know?" - Willow Rosenberg.

Henry

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1681
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2008,00:08   

Quote
...Our son was refused prayer twice because he didn't look the part, and he was told to wait still longer for a prayer that would never have been offered. And even those who looked the part seemed to look no better after Bentley's prayer -- the exodus from the arena of people bound in wheelchairs was poignant.
I read an account of a televised healing service a few years ago, written by a skeptic.  One thing that's always stuck in my mind - all the hopeless wheel-chair bound cases with serious disorders that were never going to be cured by anything were stuck in the back of the room, far from the lights and tv cameras.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
k.e..



Posts: 2997
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2008,00:26   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Dec. 04 2008,23:09)
Vindication

Back at the February 1997 NTSE conference, when I brought up the "traveling salesman problem" solved by genetic algorithm as an example that countered Dembski's EF, he responded that his logic was sound and his premises were true, therefore his conclusion followed. Dembski in that instant dismissed empirical data as having any bearing on his work. It only took the better part of twelve years for Dembski to repudiate the soundness of his logic presented then.

How much time before he has to the the same with "CSI"?   ....spits out side of mouth

Considering Dembski and his lackluster sycophants vacant inability to define any of the terms used beyond his own privately held very flexible neologism.

Once he is pinned down to an even remotely recognizable metric that has a common meaning amongst scientists he is shot.

So far it is just a huge word game, one that can go on for another 12 years if he so chooses.

Or he can dream up a new scientifical sounding logos for the Gospel of John ...GoJ perhaps? .....all he has to do put the right words to the acronym write a book about and wait for the money to roll in.

Bill .....try Graphical Ontological Juxtaposition an new logic that explains earthquakes....hey everything else has worked and a little obsolescence is a good thing it sells new models...OK?

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 1681
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 05 2008,00:45   

Denyse speaks regarding the Reality-based community's response to "Expelled":  
Quote
The Darwinists have all the pop science journalists on auto dial. They need only ring them up and bitch. Indeed, that is precisely what Richard Dawkins did. One might have expected a professor of the public understanding of science (Dawkins’s most recent job) to prefer a life in science rather than in soap opera, but people do what they can, not what they can’t.
Actually, as the Charles Simonyi Professor for Public Understanding of Science at Oxford University, countering pseudo-scientific BS is exactly what Dawkins is supposed to be doing.

--------------
Like every other academic field, philosophy of religion has its share of hacks and mediocrities.  Edward Feser

  
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