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Antievolution.org Discussion Board > From the Panda's Thumb > After the Bar Closes... > Beyond A 'Speed Limit' On Mutations,

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,14:01    Beyond A 'Speed Limit' On Mutations, Species Risk Extinction Quote Cambridge, Mass. - October 1, 2007 - Harvard University scientists have identified a virtual "speed limit" on the rate of molecular evolution in organisms, and the magic number appears to be 6 mutations per genome per generation -- a level beyond which species run the strong risk of extinction as their genomes lose stability. iirc, the average mutation rate for the coding section in humans is what, 1 or 2 per generation? Henry

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,14:03    This was just on slashdot http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071004100013.htm   Quote eldavojohn notes an article up at Science Daily on research demonstrating that smaller animals with warmer blood evolve faster than larger, colder animals. From the article: "Across species from fish to mammals, they found that rates of protein evolution showed the same body size and temperature dependence as metabolic rate. Specifically, their mathematical model predicts that a 10-degree increase in temperature across species leads to about a 300 percent increase in the evolutionary rate of proteins, while a tenfold decrease in body size leads to about a 200 percent increase in evolutionary rates."

someotherguy Posts: 398 Joined: Aug. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,14:30    Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 04 2007,14:01) Beyond A 'Speed Limit' On Mutations, Species Risk Extinction Quote Cambridge, Mass. - October 1, 2007 - Harvard University scientists have identified a virtual "speed limit" on the rate of molecular evolution in organisms, and the magic number appears to be 6 mutations per genome per generation -- a level beyond which species run the strong risk of extinction as their genomes lose stability. iirc, the average mutation rate for the coding section in humans is what, 1 or 2 per generation? Henry Wow that is really fascinating.  Should be interesting to see what kind of responses this paper gets. -------------- Evolander in training

J-Dog Posts: 4402 Joined: Dec. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,14:38    Praise Jebus, I am sure ID predicted this. -------------- Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10 Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08 UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

qetzal Posts: 311 Joined: Feb. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,16:35    Quote (Henry J @ Oct. 04 2007,14:01) Beyond A 'Speed Limit' On Mutations, Species Risk Extinction     Quote Cambridge, Mass. - October 1, 2007 - Harvard University scientists have identified a virtual "speed limit" on the rate of molecular evolution in organisms, and the magic number appears to be 6 mutations per genome per generation -- a level beyond which species run the strong risk of extinction as their genomes lose stability. iirc, the average mutation rate for the coding section in humans is what, 1 or 2 per generation? Henry Two qualifications on this paper: 1) It's actually 6 mutations per essential part of the genome per generation. As best I can tell, the "essential part" in their model corresponds to the coding sequences for proteins that are essential to survival. 2) Their model assumes organisms reproduce independently. In other words, the calculated speed limit is only applicable to asexually reproducing organisms. Indeed, the authors compare their models only to empirical data from viruses and prokaryotes.

Henry J Posts: 5787 Joined: Mar. 2005 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 04 2007,22:36    Quote 2) Their model assumes organisms reproduce independently. In other words, the calculated speed limit is only applicable to asexually reproducing organisms. Indeed, the authors compare their models only to empirical data from viruses and prokaryotes. Then an analogous limit for sexual species hasn't been determined? I noticed that their 6 value is only a few times greater than what I recall for the average generation mutation rate of the coding DNA part of the human genome. Henry

jeannot Posts: 1201 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Oct. 05 2007,05:50    One of the benefits of sexual reproduction is the purge of deleterious mutations. So I suppose that the upper limit for mutation rates in sexual lineages is much higher. Calculating this limit must be quite hard.

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