SLP
Posts: 136 Joined: Dec. 2002
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Funny, Joey must have missed this:
[quote=Joe G,Nov. 04 2009,10:55][/quote] [quote=SLP,Nov. 04 2009,10:50] Quote (Joe G @ Nov. 04 What is the mechanism of ID?
Please do not say 'design', for 'design' is only the plan. What is the mechanism of the implementation of the plan, and what is the actual evidence for it?
For example, the mechanism for the implementation of human design can be seen in the scraps and left over materials, tools, etc.
Please, floor us with your acumen.[/quote) | Design is a mechanism Scott.
Just look up the two words:
A mechanism is a a process, technique, or system for achieving a result-
Design is to create, fashion, execute, or construct according to plan.
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When I look up "design", I get this:
–verb (used with object) 1. to prepare the preliminary sketch or the plans for (a work to be executed), esp. to plan the form and structure of: to design a new bridge. 2. to plan and fashion artistically or skillfully. 3. to intend for a definite purpose: a scholarship designed for foreign students. 4. to form or conceive in the mind; contrive; plan: The prisoner designed an intricate escape. 5. to assign in thought or intention; purpose: He designed to be a doctor. 6. Obsolete. to mark out, as by a sign; indicate.
–verb (used without object) 7. to make drawings, preliminary sketches, or plans. 8. to plan and fashion the form and structure of an object, work of art, decorative scheme, etc.
–noun 9. an outline, sketch, or plan, as of the form and structure of a work of art, an edifice, or a machine to be executed or constructed. 10. organization or structure of formal elements in a work of art; composition. 11. the combination of details or features of a picture, building, etc.; the pattern or motif of artistic work: the design on a bracelet. 12. the art of designing: a school of design. 13. a plan or project: a design for a new process. 14. a plot or intrigue, esp. an underhand, deceitful, or treacherous one: His political rivals formulated a design to unseat him. 15. designs, a hostile or aggressive project or scheme having evil or selfish motives: He had designs on his partner's stock. 16. intention; purpose; end. 17. adaptation of means to a preconceived end.
I don't see anything about design being "create, fashion, execute, or construct according to plan", in all of the applicable definitions, I see 'design' as the PLAN.
And the definiton of 'mechanism' doesn't help, either:
–noun 1. an assembly of moving parts performing a complete functional motion, often being part of a large machine; linkage. 2. the agency or means by which an effect is produced or a purpose is accomplished. 3. machinery or mechanical appliances in general. 4. the structure or arrangement of parts of a machine or similar device, or of anything analogous. 5. the mechanical part of something; any mechanical device: the mechanism of a clock. 6. routine methods or procedures; mechanics: the mechanism of government. 7. mechanical execution, as in painting or music; technique. 8. the theory that everything in the universe is produced by matter in motion; materialism. Compare dynamism (def. 1), vitalism (def. 1). 9. Philosophy. a. the view that all natural processes are explicable in terms of Newtonian mechanics. b. the view that all biological processes may be described in physicochemical terms. 10. Psychoanalysis. the habitual operation and interaction of psychological forces within an individual that assist in interpreting or dealing with the physical or psychological environment.
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I see nothgin there that indicates that the "plan" is the means by which something is accomplished.
"Design" is a plan. The "mechanism" is the means by which the plan is implemented.
So where is the evidence for the means by which the plan is inmplemented?
Quote | A plan is a process, technique, or system for achieving a result.
Therefor design is a mechanism. |
No, 'design' is a plan. It is not the mechanism by which the plan is implemented.
Or do you really believe that the assembly instructions that came in the box with a child's toy is the mechanism by which the toy is put together, and that the use of tools and the physical putting-together of the parts is just part of the 'design'?
If that is truly your highly unorthodox idiosyncratic 'definition' of 'intelligent design', then you are still left with the main point - what is the evidence for it?
Using the child's toy example, if 'design' is both the plan for putting it together as well as the actual act of putting it together, we are left with evidence that the plan was implemented.
We have the actual written instructions, we have the packing material, we have the tools.
Where is anything analogous to that in, say, the 'design' of the bacterial flagellum?
Will you say in the genes? If that is so, then we are left asking who wrote the instructions. For in the toy analogy, we can certainly find out.
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It is a very simple and basic thing to understand.
As a matter of fact the only people who don't think that design is a mechansim are uneducated people.
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If only I could have earned a BS in electronics engineering like you, I guess I would be smart.
By the way - you never did answer the question regarding your claim to having been injured in Iraq asked on TT - someone looked up the injury reports and there were no such reports on the day or in the place you claimed to have been injured digging toilets or whatever you want people to think you did...
Quote | That said there are specific design mechanisms-
One is a targeted search such as the "weasel" program. |
This is a human contrivance.
Only an uneducated person would really think that looking at human activity would be evidence that Intelligent Design exists in nature such that the flagellum was the product of design, not natural processes.
Further, we could find out who the designer of the program is, we could discover the means by which the design was implemented, we could find 'evidence' for the process.
Not so with biological 'design.' Quote |
Another is "built-in responses to environmental cues" ala Dr Spetner in 1997. |
Spetner the Hebrew creationist who believes that Yahweh created 365 kinds of bird and 365 kinds of beast and the millions we have today magically evolved when nobody was looking in less than 4,500 years? That wizard? Quote |
Then there is artificial selection.
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Which is another human activity. Quote |
There you have it design mechanisms. |
Yes - human ones (I won't count Spetners nonsense).
Are you people saying that humans designed the flagellum?
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