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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,08:21   

J-Dog-- Its a possibility.  I wasnt in on it-- but an individual contacted me several months ago for Harvard/XVIVOs contact information... Thats is all I know.  So it is a possibility.  Its also possible they changed it to 'Unlocking the Mysteries of Life' animation, like they did with 'Design of Life'.

Nomad-- was it a flagella lighting up like a video game?  Twirling and flashing lights?  Nice looking, but kinda mid-1990s-ish?  'Unlocking'.  Super smooth resolution, quick changes from one part of the cell to another, lots of action?  'Inner Life'.

Just a refresher, cause now Im interested again:
http://endogenousretrovirus.blogspot.com/2007....sm.html

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,09:14   

Nomad, you're my hero!  Did they mention if any mainstream theaters are going to show the film or will it all be church basements and strip malls?

Chris

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
deejay



Posts: 113
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,09:29   

Nomad-

Great report!  I think you did the right thing by focusing on the whole "event" of the screening rather than going into the details of the movie itself.  It's no surprise to hear that much of the substance of the movie is the same old, same old.  It was good to hear the critical questions some members of the audience asked.  Those questions are quite telling: the reason this movie will be a flop is that a decent enough percentage of the intended audience will see right through it.  

ERV-

That's a great idea about contacting the ADL.  My pessimistic side takes a Lenny Flank view on this one; Lenny always liked to say that people who support ID weren't persuaded by the science, so it's futile to try to dissuade them through the science.  Similarly, I have serious doubts that anyone who is sympathetic to the movie's message will be persuaded by the anti-Semitism angle, so it follows that debunking the anti-Semitism angle will only go so far.  Still, I like the idea of people here taking on the science while others, like the ADL, take on the philosophy.  If Stein gives a TV interview promoting the movie, it can be tough to pin him down on the science in that format.  But it would be very easy to make him squirm by being able to point out that the ADL rejects the argument that makes up a huge percentage of the movie.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4465
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,10:08   

Quote

but I doubt anyone would bother to lie


There are instances where movies are offered as torrents where you not only get some other movie given a bunch of different titles, but are told to install a special codec to decrypt the movie. The codec is very likely to be spyware at the least and may be malware.

There's plenty of lying in the peer-to-peer networking world.

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"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
JohnW



Posts: 2206
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,11:18   

Many thanks, Nomad - outstanding report.  I hope most of your neurons survived.

I think the silly "security" and air of paranoia you experienced is part of a deliberate marketing campaign.  We all know this movie will be disappearing from real cinemas and heading for the DVD-in-church-basement circuit after a week - if they can blame this on the nefarious doings of the Church-Burnin' Ebola Boys, so much the better.  A large chunk of their target audience already thinks the Great Atheist Conspiracy is responsible for, well, everything.  "See the movie THEY tried to stop" is going to work like a charm.

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,11:25   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 19 2008,10:08)
Quote

but I doubt anyone would bother to lie


There are instances where movies are offered as torrents where you not only get some other movie given a bunch of different titles, but are told to install a special codec to decrypt the movie. The codec is very likely to be spyware at the least and may be malware.

There's plenty of lying in the peer-to-peer networking world.

Please - everyone listen to the man!

It took me 2 weeks of going crazy trying to finally clean my system after I made the mistake of clicking on a SNL Celebrity Jeopardy link.  

I have to say that the genius of  "So's your mother Trebeck" almost made it worth it though.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,12:05   

Quote (J-Dog @ Mar. 19 2008,11:25)
Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 19 2008,10:08)
 
Quote

but I doubt anyone would bother to lie


There are instances where movies are offered as torrents where you not only get some other movie given a bunch of different titles, but are told to install a special codec to decrypt the movie. The codec is very likely to be spyware at the least and may be malware.

There's plenty of lying in the peer-to-peer networking world.

Please - everyone listen to the man!

It took me 2 weeks of going crazy trying to finally clean my system after I made the mistake of clicking on a SNL Celebrity Jeopardy link.  

I have to say that the genius of  "So's your mother Trebeck" almost made it worth it though.

Yeah, indeed.

FYI if you have a piece of video in a unknown (or you are suspicious of the codec you are asked to download to play it) format then try to play it with VLC

www.videolan.org/vlc/

It comes pre-installed with every codec you'll likely ever need (and all self-contained so it won't contaminate your system with alternate versions of codecs you don't need).

If VLC can't play it it's likely not worth playing! It replaced media player years ago for me! :)

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,12:08   

Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 19 2008,12:05)
If VLC can't play it it's likely not worth playing! It replaced media player years ago for me! :)

Mac and my PC!  VLC is all I use for DVD watching and everything (though I have some old RealMedia files it wont recognize).

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,12:42   

Quote (ERV @ Mar. 19 2008,12:08)
Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Mar. 19 2008,12:05)
If VLC can't play it it's likely not worth playing! It replaced media player years ago for me! :)

Mac and my PC!  VLC is all I use for DVD watching and everything (though I have some old RealMedia files it wont recognize).

Thanks for the experience comment Abbie - And I forgot to say thanks for calling the JDL too - I was posting at the time and didn't even see your comment till later.  

Let us know if /when you hear back from them.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 1956
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,13:17   

I suspect the animation is also the one used in this Pat Robertson report.  I would strongly advise turning your sound off before watching.

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ID theorists don’t postulate a designer for their arguments. - Crandaddy
There is no connection between a peppered moth, natural selection, and religion that I can see. - FtK

   
Louis



Posts: 6436
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,13:23   

I wonder how long it will be before FTK crows about "Teh Impending Waterloo Caused By Expelled Flunked" or to defend its "innocent" makers from the horrid exposures of their vile and dishonest ways.

Some of us are, after all, atheists on at least a quarterly basis.

Louis

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Bye.

  
Kristine



Posts: 3037
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,13:40   

Quote (Nomad @ Mar. 19 2008,00:14)
Well.. that was an experience.  *snip*

Yeah, well, my recording jokes aside, I would agree that it's not legal to record the whole (or probably any part of) thing. But were you asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement? I'm not clear on how screenings like this are supposed to generate publicity for a film that no one can subsequently talk about.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,14:07   

Quote (Kristine @ Mar. 19 2008,13:40)
Quote (Nomad @ Mar. 19 2008,00:14)
Well.. that was an experience.  *snip*

Yeah, well, my recording jokes aside, I would agree that it's not legal to record the whole (or probably any part of) thing. But were you asked to sign a non-disclosure agreement? I'm not clear on how screenings like this are supposed to generate publicity for a film that no one can subsequently talk about.

They are getting favorable publicity this way, though.  Preachers and other religious folk that they're targeting are putting out rave "reviews" which say little (apparently staying within the confidentiality rule), but which assure the faithful that it is a great film.  And this is just what I see on the web.

I'm guessing that a whole lot of them are preaching about what a wonderful film it is, telling the sheep in meetings that they must go, signing up schools to have "mandatory" field trips, and downloading fliers and the like to plaster their schools and churches with (I did run across one poster on the web who said little posters for Expelled were all over his church).

It's a world that most of us don't know much about, and that operates according to different rules than we use.  They don't need for a lot of details to come out, they just need to pump up preachers and other religious folk regarding the "connections" between "Darwinism" and all of the ills of society.  In that market, I suspect that they're really doing just fine with their publicity.

Oh, and thanks much for that report on your experience, Nomad.

Glen D

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http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,18:26   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ Mar. 19 2008,10:08)
Quote

but I doubt anyone would bother to lie


There are instances where movies are offered as torrents where you not only get some other movie given a bunch of different titles, but are told to install a special codec to decrypt the movie. The codec is very likely to be spyware at the least and may be malware.

There's plenty of lying in the peer-to-peer networking world.

I found a supposed Expelled torrent with a related problem. Could be the one oldman saw. They want me to sign up for some site to get a password and further instructions, which has never lead good places in my experience. This wasn't displayed directly but was "hidden" in a readme in the original torrent, which I grabbed in advance because I felt like checking if it was real before I downloaded the huge video file. Between that and the rarity of real pre-release torrent leaks, I don't think it's the genuine article.

Re: Paranoia, I don't think it's part of the marketing. People "stealing" the movie is a production company's sort of fear, not a persecuted scientist's fear. If they were doing it solely for the audience's benefit, I think they'd have gone for a malicious, censorious enemy without instead of aiming their night-visioned paranoia at their guests.

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"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
JohnW



Posts: 2206
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,18:44   

Quote (Annyday @ Mar. 19 2008,16:26)
Re: Paranoia, I don't think it's part of the marketing. People "stealing" the movie is a production company's sort of fear, not a persecuted scientist's fear. If they were doing it solely for the audience's benefit, I think they'd have gone for a malicious, censorious enemy without instead of aiming their night-visioned paranoia at their guests.

I'm not sure.  I don't know what's normal practice at pre-release screenings, but I suspect some sort of non-disclosure agreement may be standard.  The sort of police-state shenanigans described by Nomad sound well beyond the pale, although I'm willing to be proved wrong if anyone knows more about the industry.

Remember, they're selling a film with a paranoid premise to an audience which likes paranoia.  Again, this is speculation, but I suspect most of the audience didn't mind being watched with night-vision goggles.  "They're not looking for us, they're looking for them!  Church-Burnin' Ebola Boys!  They're everywhere!"

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Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,19:03   

Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 19 2008,18:44)
I'm not sure.  I don't know what's normal practice at pre-release screenings, but I suspect some sort of non-disclosure agreement may be standard.  The sort of police-state shenanigans described by Nomad sound well beyond the pale, although I'm willing to be proved wrong if anyone knows more about the industry.

Well, I worked at a movie theater for my entire teenage years (ran it myself for a year--small town).  I got to watch 'Lord of the Rings'/'Phantom Menace'/etc weeks before everyone else.  No non-disclosure agreements.

I dont think EXPELLED>>Lord of the Rings.

EXPELLED>>Phantom Menace is possible...

  
lkeithlu



Posts: 321
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,19:24   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 19 2008,13:17)
I suspect the animation is also the one used in this Pat Robertson report.  I would strongly advise turning your sound off before watching.

Nauseating.
Even with the sound off.

  
Mister DNA



Posts: 466
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,19:26   

Quote (ERV @ Mar. 19 2008,19:03)
Quote (JohnW @ Mar. 19 2008,18:44)
I'm not sure.  I don't know what's normal practice at pre-release screenings, but I suspect some sort of non-disclosure agreement may be standard.  The sort of police-state shenanigans described by Nomad sound well beyond the pale, although I'm willing to be proved wrong if anyone knows more about the industry.

Well, I worked at a movie theater for my entire teenage years (ran it myself for a year--small town).  I got to watch 'Lord of the Rings'/'Phantom Menace'/etc weeks before everyone else.  No non-disclosure agreements.

I dont think EXPELLED>>Lord of the Rings.

EXPELLED>>Phantom Menace is possible...

The heightened precautions reek of an old-school marketing ploy, like those old Z-Grade horror movies that would include warnings that heart patients and pregnant women shouldn't watch the movie.

To listen to people like FtK and other UD commenters, Expelled is supposed to be the final nail (in a long line of final nails) in Evolution's coffin. Expelled's target audience is likely to be more convinced by night vision goggle-wearing guards than by... oh, stuff like actual evidence.

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CBEB's: The Church Burnin' Ebola Blog
Thank you, Dr. Dembski. You are without peer when it comes to The Argument Regarding Design. - vesf

    
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2777
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,20:22   

Quote (Annyday @ Mar. 19 2008,18:26)
 Re: Paranoia, I don't think it's part of the marketing. People "stealing" the movie is a production company's sort of fear, not a persecuted scientist's fear. If they were doing it solely for the audience's benefit, I think they'd have gone for a malicious, censorious enemy without instead of aiming their night-visioned paranoia at their guests.

You need to remember, just like book sales and lecture fees for Dr. Dr. D and Dr. Behe, for Ben Stein, this movie is all about the money. Converts? Who needs 'em? They want a big box office take, at least during the opening days, and then they don't really care if it tanks. After that it will play in church basements for a dozen years or so, but the big money is made during that first weekend. So keeping it sequestered from real critics, and pumping it up among the church-going, makes sense solely from the money-making perspective.

It won't make money if it gets bit-torrented, and it won't make money if it gets reviewed by real critics. As Deep Throat said to Bob Woodward - "Follow the money". This is all about getting money from the rubes and turning it into Ben Stein's money, and they want to maximize that.

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Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,23:10   

The question is whether it will follow the box office pattern of "Passion" or of "Gods and Generals."

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
ndt



Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 19 2008,23:12   

I wonder if they got permission to use "Another Brick in the Wall part 2"? Somehow I doubt it.

  
Nomad



Posts: 303
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,01:18   

Okay, trying to respond to a bunch of comments at once here..

First off, no non disclosure agreement.  They explained that they just had to get our information because they movie wasn't in final form and because of the piracy threat.  It wasn't really a legal form, and unless I somehow forgot this part I don't think the form even had a place for a signature, just for printing your name and phone number and such.

About the cell animation, I just don't know.  There was no flagellum (no talk of it at all, also no talk of IC, the movie made nearly zero mention of any actual fact or scientific argument except a bunch of ID "scientists" saying that mainstream science has no explanation for a bunch of unspecified stuff).  I'm not up on my biology, so I can't tell you what it was that was shown in the animation, but one of the memorable bits was similar to something  I'd seen on the XVIVO animation.  It was similar to the scene where you see what looks like an almost cartoonish pair of walking feet walking along a tube, pulling a large blob attached to them by a tether.  But it was different in the version used in the movie, the feet weren't so much walking as sort of sliding along the tube like they were running along a rail.  It also had scenes of structures disassembling themselves, breaking up into a cascade of small pieces, but again it doesn't appear identical to the XVIVO piece that I'm looking at to refresh my memory although similar sequences appear.

I hope I didn't imply that I was accusing them of stealing it, I felt it was unlikely given the attention that the previous theft attracted and the fact that this will (theoretically) get a nationwide commercial release.  But the similarity was striking, I was just waiting for someone to start talking about the cell as a city.  I should have watched for CG credits at the end.

As far as the extent of the theatrical release, they had no specific info.  One of the other members of the audience asked how many theaters it would be released in and the rep said he didn't know.  I have to wonder if the reason he didn't know was that they're having trouble getting it into any theater, they only got it into this one by renting it out and apparently using their own equipment.  The digital projector itself looked like they might have brought it, after the movie started it shifted slightly as they tried to straighten it out, it had been a bit crooked and they made it perhaps slightly more crooked by messing with it.


Regarding their usage of the Pink Floyd song.. I think they got permission somehow or another.  It wasn't the original Pink Floyd performance, it was played solely on string instruments.  I don't know the details, but I think the law is different about using a musical composition but recording a new version yourself.  It's still protected, but perhaps not to the same degree or something.  I just don't think they'd steal a song and use it on a movie intended or at least hoped to be released to a nationwide audience.  Unless the commercial release is a hoax and they never intended to get it out to anyone other than these carefully selected audiences.


I'm not entirely certain if the point of this movie is to make money.  When you look at some of the details, like the plans to pay schools to force their students to go see it, it starts sounding fishy.  I start wondering if the whole thing is meant more as a promotional stunt than a means to rake in the money.  They make motions of intending to release to theaters nationwide and keep pushing the date back and then finally they could announce that the evil conspiracy is keeping them from getting into the theaters.  Maybe the producers could get some cash from charging for churches to show it in their basements, but in that scenario the movie is more like a large scale advertising campaign.
They could still make some money by releasing it on DVD, in fact one member of the audience asked when the DVD would be out.  But judging by the getexpelled site (which was the one referred to as being for people of faith and includes information for people who want to set up an expelled debate at their school) they're trying to convince their target demographic that they're part of a grass roots campaign to defend freedom and liberty.  I don't think this is a cynical attempt to profit off of the religiously minded.  I think it is an even more cynical attempt to manipulate the religiously minded who aren't already fixated on taking over schools and forcing their beliefs on the entire country to start doing just that.


Oh, and one final note about something that I feel I should have been clearer on regarding the treatment of the holocaust.  What they did in the movie was refer to the instances where the Nazis gathered up and executed the...  I don't know how to say it, the disabled.  The "physically inferior".  They got a German tour guide of the structure where the people had been killed to state that the people were killed because of Darwin.  I wanted to ask the filmmakers if they were familiar with the traditional way for ancient Spartans to deal with the birth of such a child, and if they believed that the evil of darwinsim extends backwards in time as well.

They then attempted to suggest that that sort of thinking was behind the entire holocaust.  This is tricky to talk about because I feel like I'm trying to defend part of it, but the campaign to exterminate the Jews was different.  It was racial scapegoating, it was a traditional tactic arguably as old as religion itself.

And I'm still furious that Ben Stein played off his Jewish Heritage and ignored all those details to blame it all on science.  I still can't figure out Ben's motive behind all this.  He can't have been paid enough.  The filmmakers can proceed to make more drivel like this, they'll always have an audience.  But can Ben be counting on becoming the next bizarre conservative religious spokesperson in the style of Kirk Cameron or Chuck Norris?  Perhaps his recent financial advice screwups were the result of him phoning in his last days as a financial guru before he moves on to Liars for Jesus inc?  Is a Fox News guest commenter relationship on the horizon?

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,04:06   

Quote (Annyday @ Mar. 19 2008,18:26)
I found a supposed Expelled torrent with a related problem. Could be the one oldman saw. They want me to sign up for some site to get a password and further instructions, which has never lead good places in my experience. This wasn't displayed directly but was "hidden" in a readme in the original torrent, which I grabbed in advance because I felt like checking if it was real before I downloaded the huge video file. Between that and the rarity of real pre-release torrent leaks, I don't think it's the genuine article.

It's all fake! Turns out any word that people are searching for they make up a torrent for it (fake) and fill it with malware (most likely the storm bot worm).

Wow, I've not used torrents for some time and it appears I'm out of the loop! Avoid!

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
Reed



Posts: 274
Joined: Feb. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,05:52   

Thanks for the report.
             
Quote (Nomad @ Mar. 19 2008,23:18)
Regarding their usage of the Pink Floyd song.. I think they got permission somehow or another.  It wasn't the original Pink Floyd performance, it was played solely on string instruments.

Ben Stein has been around the industry long enough that I would expect him (or his people) to know how to do such things by the book.
     
Quote

I'm not entirely certain if the point of this movie is to make money.  When you look at some of the details, like the plans to pay schools to force their students to go see it, it starts sounding fishy.  I start wondering if the whole thing is meant more as a promotional stunt than a means to rake in the money.

I'd guess there's a True Believer camp and an in it for the money camp. The latter need not make their money in the box office, as many of the former are very wealthy and think this is Gods Work.

The money for schools to see it appears to come from outside organizations, not out of Ben Steins Money ;)

See for http://www.getexpelled.com/scholarships.php example. The ticket stub deal is only $10,000 to the group that collects the most.

They also have a pretty good guaranteed audience among fundie groups, and a large grass roots promotional network who will not only think work for free, but think it is their moral duty to do so.
Quote
Perhaps his recent financial advice screwups were the result of him phoning in his last days as a financial guru before he moves on to Liars for Jesus inc?  Is a Fox News guest commenter relationship on the horizon?

It has been suggested he wants to set himself up as the Michael Moore of the right.

Prediction: The next film will be about global warming.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,09:03   

Quote (Reed @ Mar. 20 2008,05:52)
Prediction: The next film will be about global warming.

What Global Warming? :(

I'm betting it's gonna be more on the War On The White Male Oppressed Republican Minority.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
blader



Posts: 5
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,09:47   

Nomad, perhaps I missed it, but can you please describe how one can go about getting a pass to see a screening?

I see they have one planned at a theater near me, and I'd like to see it for myself (I think).  I mean, it sounds so bad it might actually be funny..or not.

  
blader



Posts: 5
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,10:28   

Quote (Nomad @ Mar. 20 2008,02:18)
And I'm still furious that Ben Stein played off his Jewish Heritage and ignored all those details to blame it all on science.  I still can't figure out Ben's motive behind all this.  He can't have been paid enough.  The filmmakers can proceed to make more drivel like this, they'll always have an audience.  But can Ben be counting on becoming the next bizarre conservative religious spokesperson in the style of Kirk Cameron or Chuck Norris?  Perhaps his recent financial advice screwups were the result of him phoning in his last days as a financial guru before he moves on to Liars for Jesus inc?  Is a Fox News guest commenter relationship on the horizon?

When I first heard about this project, my first reflex was to assume it was a parody....until it became clear who are the producers.  Then I looked into Stein's pedigree a bit further.

My best guess is that what mostly motivates Stein is he is one of those people who make their living by working to get exposure and recognition so he'll be considered for the next gig that comes down the line.  He's just out there shilling, trying to get work.  

What is more interesting is to speculate why a group of self-styled fundamentalist christian leaders appear to have quite purposely chosen a jewish entertainer to serve as their standard bearer during what I think is quite clearly something they see as the next phase of their culture war.

I don't think it is at all accidental that Stein was selected for the project rather than someone else.  I'm pretty convinced that by recruiting Stein, they hoped to deflect any charges that their culture movement is essentially based upon a religious proposition.  As if to say, "Look!  How can you possibly accuse us of being an anti-intellectual religious-based when our key spokesman is actually a holywood/ivy league elitist wunderkind jew?!?"

It seems to me you can always expect the DI to do the crass and tasteless and the clumsy.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall listening to them congratulate themselves for the brilliance of choosing Stein.

  
ndt



Posts: 5
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,10:28   

Regarding Stein's motivation, I'd like to offer an additional possibility besides True Believer and In It For The Money. I think it's possible that he sees the religious right as a useful, easily manipulated voting bloc, much the way Nixon regarded southern racists. This whole exercise could be an attempt to keep them voting for the Nixon-style "conservatives" whose views Stein agrees with.

  
J-Dog



Posts: 4360
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,10:34   

Quote (blader @ Mar. 20 2008,09:47)
Nomad, perhaps I missed it, but can you please describe how one can go about getting a pass to see a screening?

I see they have one planned at a theater near me, and I'd like to see it for myself (I think).  I mean, it sounds so bad it might actually be funny..or not.

In case Nomad is still recovering his recently assaulted brain cells, here is a link so that you can book your screening:

http://rsvp.getexpelled.com/events/special/expelled

BTW - What city are you in?

Unless you want to get bombarded with Marketing junk, I would suggest setting  up a special email account.  They also ask for a Title when you sign up - Pastor, or Youth Group Leader would get you instant credibility.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 3551
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 20 2008,11:01   

Quote
It seems to me you can always expect the DI to do the crass and tasteless and the clumsy.  I'd love to be a fly on the wall listening to them congratulate themselves for the brilliance of choosing Stein.


I was a bit surprised to see Stein assume the Monica position, but I'm not convinced he is being hypocritical. Evolution and ID are a bit like the vase and two women optical illusion. You see one aspect or the other.

I know lots of people who "accept" evolution, even argue for it on the web, but who don't understand it as a universal tendency. They cannot, for example, see the parallel between biological evolution and learning.

This deficiency of imagination is not confined to the right wing. Noam Chomsky was pretty much in the design camp. When pushed against the wall, he gave lip service to biological common descent, but he considered language and the language faculty to be irreducibly complex and not reachable by stepwise modification.

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”let’s not make a joke of ourselves.”

Pat Robertson

  
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