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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
Lowell



Posts: 101
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2008,09:19   

Quote (Nomad @ Oct. 18 2008,20:28)
Quote (bystander @ Oct. 18 2008,17:27)
I just hit refresh and I got the 57/14/29

Woah, I got the same thing.  First I got 50/25/25, then hit refresh and got 57/14/29.

How odd.

Same here: 50%, 25%, 25%, then refreshed and 57%, 14%, 29%. Lame.

--------------
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

  
EyeNoU



Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2008,10:02   

Quote (Lowell @ Oct. 19 2008,09:19)
Quote (Nomad @ Oct. 18 2008,20:28)
 
Quote (bystander @ Oct. 18 2008,17:27)
I just hit refresh and I got the 57/14/29

Woah, I got the same thing.  First I got 50/25/25, then hit refresh and got 57/14/29.

How odd.

Same here: 50%, 25%, 25%, then refreshed and 57%, 14%, 29%. Lame.

I detect design!

  
EyeNoU



Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2008,10:04   

The intelligent component seems to be missing, though.......

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4484
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2008,10:52   

Maybe Dembski and Marks programmed their poll counter for them in Matlab...

Edited by Wesley R. Elsberry on Oct. 19 2008,10:53

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 19 2008,15:56   

unbelievable, they cannot even do an honest poll!

  
BathTub



Posts: 5
Joined: April 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2008,00:34   

Hahaha, I got 50/25/25 as well, then refreshed and 57/14/29.

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2008,16:23   

lol!  Ive tried it at a few IPs with different answers (tried yes, no, and maybe)-- 50-25-25, 57-14-29 with all of them.

heeeeeeeeehehehehehehe!

  
Nerull



Posts: 317
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2008,16:31   

Wow. Is there anything they don't lie about?

--------------
To rebut creationism you pretty much have to be a biologist, chemist, geologist, philosopher, lawyer and historian all rolled into one. While to advocate creationism, you just have to be an idiot. -- tommorris

   
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 20 2008,16:56   

Quote (ERV @ Oct. 21 2008,04:23)
lol!  Ive tried it at a few IPs with different answers (tried yes, no, and maybe)-- 50-25-25, 57-14-29 with all of them.

heeeeeeeeehehehehehehe!

A true scientist, repeat experimentation.

If they were going to fake it, you think they would put a little code in it to vary it slightly.

Note the message about no1 documentary for 2008. Shouldn't they take that down now that the other documentary has passed it?

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2008,14:44   

Someone over at ERV's noticed this in the poll code:
 
Quote

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?>
<poll>
<question/>
<answer votes="4" barColor="#66CC33">Yes</answer>
<answer votes="1" barColor="#66CC33">No</answer>
<answer votes="2" barColor="#66CC33">Maybe</answer>
</poll>


57/14 = 4.0714286
29/14 = 2.0714286

So, so sad.  In other Expelled news, I left this comment over at ERV's:
 
Quote

Did anyone notice the animated ad for Expelled merch in the upper right corner? According to that, Berlinski is going to be doing Expelled: The Book. Great: all the vacuity of Expelled combined with all the smug pomposity and tortured prose of David Berlinski. Guaranteed to be the bestselling book of whatever genre in some year.


Funnily enough, if you go to the store, Expelled: The Book has either been expelled or currently fails to exist.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4484
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2008,14:56   

Well, that settles that. The "poll" may not be meaningful, but it is iinitialized, so we need to look elsewhere besides Dembski and Marks for the authorship.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
JohnW



Posts: 2235
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 21 2008,15:58   

Quote (didymos @ Oct. 21 2008,12:44)
Funnily enough, if you go to the store, Expelled: The Book has either been expelled or currently fails to exist.

Presumably the Darwinist Nazis burned every copy.

--------------
Math is just a language of reality. Its a waste of time to know it.
- Robert Byers

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2008,03:31   

They re-rigged it.  New "results" show up as:

Yes 61%
No 28%
Maybe 11%

The poll code now looks like:

Code Sample

<poll>
<question/>
<answer votes="72" barColor="#66CC33">Yes</answer>
<answer votes="30" barColor="#66CC33">No</answer>
<answer votes="13" barColor="#66CC33">Maybe</answer>
</poll>


If you notice, the displayed results add up to 100, whereas the rigged weightings add up to 115, so there's some other code to "massage the data".

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2008,04:18   

Hmm, interesting.  If you view the Expelled site's source, you'll find this URL in there:

http://www.monarchdigimedia.com/ExpelledNew/poll.xml

So, I went there and its code read:

Code Sample

<poll>
<question/>
<answer votes="83" barColor="#66CC33">Yes</answer>
<answer votes="38" barColor="#66CC33">No</answer>
<answer votes="15" barColor="#66CC33">Maybe</answer>
</poll>


I then cleared my cache and deleted the relevant cookies, and went back to get this:

Code Sample
<poll>
<question/>
<answer votes="84" barColor="#66CC33">Yes</answer>
<answer votes="40" barColor="#66CC33">No</answer>
<answer votes="15" barColor="#66CC33">Maybe</answer>
</poll>


then did a reload and found it'd changed again to 85/41/15 and then yet again almost immediately to 86/41/15, where it's now stayed for awhile. Back over at the expelledthemovie.com domain the results changed slightly to 61/29/11 (so it now adds up to 101%), yet their copy of the poll.xml file is still at 72/30/13.  

However, over at ERV's, a couple hours ago, a commenter noted getting these results:
 
Quote
Looks like they've fiddled with it now.

Yes 62%
No 26%
Maybe 12%

refreshing to

Yes 63%
No 26%
Maybe 11%

Posted by: noncarborundum | October 22, 2008 2:11 AM


I now have no idea what's actually going on there, other than the fact that it's still rigged like a seven-masted schooner.


ETA: the ratio math (rounded off):
current poll "results"
61/11 = 5.55
29/11 = 2.64

poll.xml at expelledthemovie.com:
72/13 = 5.54
30/13 =  2.31

poll.xml at monarchdigimedia.com:
86/15 = 5.73
41/15 =  2.73

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1825
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2008,05:49   

OK, so checked in again.  It is actually counting votes now, or so it appears anyway:

poll.xml at monarchdigimedia.com
Code Sample

<poll>
<question/>
<answer votes="88" barColor="#66CC33">Yes</answer>
<answer votes="47" barColor="#66CC33">No</answer>
<answer votes="16" barColor="#66CC33">Maybe</answer>
</poll>


Total votes = 151

Yes: 88/151 = .583
No: 47/151 = .311
Maybe: 16/151 = .106

Displayed results at expelledthemovie.com:

Yes: 58%
No:  31%
Maybe: 11%

ETA: So, looks like this may be a case where a variant form of Hanlon's Razor can be applied:  "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetence."

ETAA: Someone over at ERV's figured it out too by different means. Somewhat earlier as well:
Quote

I probed about in their .swf file with a decompiler and found they're using a piece of Flash/XML/PHP called DesignersPoll to operate that poll (this). DesignersPoll stores the results in an XML file on the server; this would be the poll.xml file that Thomas and Tophe have pointed out is extremely suspect. The 4/1/2 "voting" split in the earlier file gives us the 57%/14%/29% results of earler, and the 72/30/13 must give us the results it's currently displaying.

I'd be charitable enough to go by that old "malice/incompetence" adage and say the initial problem was merely an oversight; they put a few votes in as test data but failed to give the polling software permission to write to the XML file on their server (explaining the unchanging results), but the fact that they have clearly stepped in and manually changed the number of votes stored in poll.xml while still not fixing the problem that prevents the poll actually tallying real votes raises a big red flag in the "malice" column for me. Duplicitous through-and-through.

Posted by: MPG | October 22, 2008 6:35 AM


--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Texas Teach



Posts: 1022
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 22 2008,17:01   

It's the folks behind Expelled.  How about we attribute it to malice and incompetence?

--------------
"Creationists think everything Genesis says is true. I don't even think Phil Collins is a good drummer." --J. Carr

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 1956
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2008,00:58   

Quote (Texas Teach @ Oct. 22 2008,15:01)
It's the folks behind Expelled.  How about we attribute it to malice and incompetence?

So...

They tried to cheat but then fucked it up so that we could all be amused for a few days at how stupid they are?

OK

Works for me. What a great bunch of fun (stupid fuck-up) guys.

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 23 2008,21:41   

EXPELLED is on Netflix.  You can watch it online.

Also, Kahlua now comes in French Vanilla.

  
Wolfhound



Posts: 468
Joined: June 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 24 2008,05:36   

Jeez, it's just so hard to choose between the two...

--------------
I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

  
JMax



Posts: 12
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,03:36   

Did anyone else notice that they quote Ben Stein on the cover of his own movie?


  
stevestory



Posts: 8897
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,04:00   

Is that real? That is just too much!

   
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 197
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,04:43   

I noticed early, but thought it is part of Stein's "humor".

--------------
I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4484
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,05:41   

Quote (JMax @ Oct. 27 2008,03:36)
Did anyone else notice that they quote Ben Stein on the cover of his own movie?


Unbelievable.

I mean, can anybody credit that Ben Stein would only give four stars to Ben Stein?

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4484
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,07:04   

My response to whymrhymer:

Quote

But the possibility behind "intelligent design" creationism was explored... we call it "the 19th century". Rev. Paley's proposals in his 1802 book, "Natural Theology", are the recognizable precursors to the particular arguments made by Michael Behe, William Dembski, Guillermo Gonzalez, and the rest of the "intelligent design" advocates. That's over two hundred years in which the advocates could have made a convincing case, if there were one to be made. It hasn't happened.

I was at one of the first "intelligent design" conferences sponsored by the Discovery Institute. The plain goal there was to get critics to cough up a confession that "intelligent design" qualified, <i>per se</i>, as a scientific endeavor. What we critics said there, over and over, was that we wanted to see an "intelligent design" hypothesis and a proposed means of testing it. They said that they were working on it. I have periodically asked various advocates about progress on that, and consistently have been told that they are still working on it. It seems to me that if they want to be considered to be doing science, that they should show that they are actually doing some science. It isn't a high bar to clear, if one actually has ideas that are scientific.

As for the "pure Darwinists" thing, what I tell people is that I'm not Darwin-only, I'm science-only.


--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,10:58   

I watched EXPELLED this weekend.

Wow.

That was just awful.

If it were 5 minutes longer I would have shot myself in the head.

Shit.

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2008/10/a_movie_review.php

  
k.e..



Posts: 2883
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Oct. 27 2008,13:04   

Quote (ERV @ Oct. 27 2008,18:58)
I watched EXPELLED this weekend.

Wow.

That was just awful.

If it were 5 minutes longer I would have shot myself in the head.

Shit.

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2008/10/a_movie_review.php

Woa there girl!

Vanilla Kahlua, chocolate and a visit to the "Africa Bar" in Maputo, Mozambique or the "Q-Bar" in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania should cure that!

It works for me.

.....You said you were black right? Or was that your dog named Arden? Anyway even if your not, you could still be president....as long as your not a woman....ok that could still be ok as long as you like vanilla kahlua

X k.e.

--------------
"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"Abbie Smith (ERV) who's got to be the most obnoxious arrogant snot I've ever seen except for when I look in a mirror" DAVE TARD
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 03 2008,11:53   

I left one, probably my last ever, comment on Expelled's blog, pending "moderation".  Since they do expel comments, if not nearly as much as UD does, a copy goes here:

Quote
Glen Davidson Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

November 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
If a theory claims to be able to explain some phenomenon but does not generate even an attempt at an explanation, then it should be banished. Despite comparing sequences, molecular evolution has never addressed the question of how complex structures came to be. In effect, the theory of Darwinian molecular evolution has not published, and so it should perish.

http://www.arn.org/docs/behe/mb_idfrombiochemistry.htm

Yes, it’s the prominent IDist Behe who wants to banish evolution.

Of course he’s wrong about evolution’s explanatory ability, while ID has none whatsoever. By Behe’s standard, ID definitely deserves banishment, although I would not go that far.

To be sure, an idea like ID that never has–and never could–address the origin of complex structures has no business being called science.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7


--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 05 2008,17:32   

Quote (Glen Davidson @ Nov. 03 2008,11:53)
I left one, probably my last ever, comment on Expelled's blog, pending "moderation".  Since they do expel comments, if not nearly as much as UD does, a copy goes here:

   
Quote
Glen Davidson Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.

November 3rd, 2008 at 12:41 pm
If a theory claims to be able to explain some phenomenon but does not generate even an attempt at an explanation, then it should be banished. Despite comparing sequences, molecular evolution has never addressed the question of how complex structures came to be. In effect, the theory of Darwinian molecular evolution has not published, and so it should perish.

http://www.arn.org/docs/behe/mb_idfrombiochemistry.htm

Yes, it’s the prominent IDist Behe who wants to banish evolution.

Of course he’s wrong about evolution’s explanatory ability, while ID has none whatsoever. By Behe’s standard, ID definitely deserves banishment, although I would not go that far.

To be sure, an idea like ID that never has–and never could–address the origin of complex structures has no business being called science.

Glen D
http://tinyurl.com/2kxyc7

Not that it's anything new or different, but I shouldn't let them off for not posting my comment.  It should have been #40, and two later comments have been published (at two different times) while mine was not:

http://expelledthemovie.com/blog/

It's perhaps a possibility that they might yet publish my comment, when it will be lost among enough previous posts--a smothering operation that they've used in the past when they didn't want to absolutely censor.  I do doubt it, though, especially since most of the comments on the blog are quite favorable.

They seem to be more blatant in censoring than they were in the past, probably because they're trying to sell their dishonest product, and so do not want honest comments on their site (save a few to give the illusion that they're not doing what they illegitimately condemn).

Yes, it matters little enough, for they've long showed how sleazy their characters are.  But this censorship is a fitting end to a long string of lies.

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Lowell



Posts: 101
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2008,13:38   

Glen D,

I read most of those expelled blog threads way back when. (I know, I've since learned not to mainline pure Tard like that.)

Just wanted to thank you for your herculean (or maybe sisyphean?) efforts to battle the idiocy there. You definitely helped me (a non-scientist) see through it.

--------------
The resurrection of Jesus Christ is one of the most well documented events of antiquity. Barry Arrington, Jan 17, 2012.

  
Glen Davidson



Posts: 752
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Nov. 06 2008,20:27   

Quote (Lowell @ Nov. 06 2008,13:38)
Glen D,

I read most of those expelled blog threads way back when. (I know, I've since learned not to mainline pure Tard like that.)

Just wanted to thank you for your herculean (or maybe sisyphean?) efforts to battle the idiocy there. You definitely helped me (a non-scientist) see through it.

Thanks for saying so.  I'd hate to think that only Keith Eaton and JAD had read my comments, as thought is wasted on them.

Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
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