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Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,17:38   

In Sal's latest (I thought he was going to shut up for a while during his time in grad school??), he shows his extremely pathetic understanding of a theory that he rejects, and throws in an ad hominem slap just for good measure.  
Quote
I reject Darwinism because it’s a stupid theory written by a stupid pretender. Fish do not turn into birds, and birds don’t turn into cows and nor cows into whales via mechanism we see in operation today.

'Nuff said.

Link.

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
bystander



Posts: 301
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,17:42   

I'm sure he is just using hyperbole in that comment and isn't quite that stupid but doesn't he realise that once comments like that are in the public domain that we will use it against him, forever.

  
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,17:49   

Quote (bystander @ Dec. 27 2007,17:42)
I'm sure he is just using hyperbole in that comment and isn't quite that stupid but doesn't he realise that once comments like that are in the public domain that we will use it against him, forever.

No. He's. That. Stupid.

Here's more.
Quote
Finally, according to Darwin, the fittest survive. Does that mean rapists and murderers are more fit adaptations? Recently a creationist murdered a Darwinist. Does that mean that a murdering creationist is more fit than the Darwinist? I don’t think so. Shame on that dirt bag murderer for disgracing us creationists. But still, the cruel irony of Darwin’s theory that according to Darwin’s theory, that creationist is a more fit adaptation than the Darwinist he murdered. Not only is Darwin’s theory scientifically wrong it is morally reprehensible.


--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11175
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,18:00   

Sal is unemployable. I'm sure he can't wait to cry "persecution".

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
stevestory



Posts: 12679
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,21:15   

Sal's been hyperactively dumb lately.

   
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,21:44   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Dec. 27 2007,16:49)
 
Quote (bystander @ Dec. 27 2007,17:42)
I'm sure he is just using hyperbole in that comment and isn't quite that stupid but doesn't he realise that once comments like that are in the public domain that we will use it against him, forever.

No. He's. That. Stupid.

Here's more.    
Quote
Finally, according to Darwin, the fittest survive. Does that mean rapists and murderers are more fit adaptations? Recently a creationist murdered a Darwinist. Does that mean that a murdering creationist is more fit than the Darwinist? I don’t think so. Shame on that dirt bag murderer for disgracing us creationists. But still, the cruel irony of Darwin’s theory that according to Darwin’s theory, that creationist is a more fit adaptation than the Darwinist he murdered. Not only is Darwin’s theory scientifically wrong it is morally reprehensible.

Oh, yeah?

Didn't he just say that evil makes life more interesting?
 
Quote
Would we be interested in sporting matches where there were no losers? Would we rush to watch a Huxlian Utopia League with no losers and all participants are superbowl champions? I have no answers as to why we find worlds where there is a possibility of losers and winners more compelling, and dare I say more real and beautiful, than world where all troubles sanitized away, and the heroes have no chance of experiencing adversity and pain.

Would we expect a great screen writer or a great novelist to write a work where there were no problems or villains? Would we expect a composer to write great works of music with no dissonance. If he doesn’t, one will be stuck with a monotoned sine-wave. Not very beautiful or compelling.

Thus if we would expect a great novelist on the Earth to create a world full of villains, winners and losers, is it not reasonable to think the Great Novelist in the Sky to do the same. It is possible he would create a world, a story line where there are heroes and villains. A world without such drama is like Star Wars without Darth Vader. It seems a rather strange property of reality that great good and beauty are realized with the possibility of evil and loss. We may not like it, but it seems that like the laws of thermodynamics dictate, things must come at a cost, and everything of any worth must come at a great price.


Spot the contradiction in five, four, three, two...

Darwinists give meaning to the creationists' lives! So why don't they shut up already about how "mean" "we" are? It's all part of God's Plan! :D

If "we" Darth-winists didn't pick on Guillermo Gonzalez, etc., life would be boring! Etc.! :)

Now "we" have an excuse for everything! Thanks, Sal!

*edited to include "Darth-winists"*

--------------
Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
stevestory



Posts: 12679
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,21:46   

Quote (Albatrossity2 @ Dec. 27 2007,18:49)
Quote (bystander @ Dec. 27 2007,17:42)
I'm sure he is just using hyperbole in that comment and isn't quite that stupid but doesn't he realise that once comments like that are in the public domain that we will use it against him, forever.

No. He's. That. Stupid.

Here's more.  
Quote
Finally, according to Darwin, the fittest survive. Does that mean rapists and murderers are more fit adaptations? Recently a creationist murdered a Darwinist. Does that mean that a murdering creationist is more fit than the Darwinist? I don’t think so. Shame on that dirt bag murderer for disgracing us creationists. But still, the cruel irony of Darwin’s theory that according to Darwin’s theory, that creationist is a more fit adaptation than the Darwinist he murdered. Not only is Darwin’s theory scientifically wrong it is morally reprehensible.

Is Salvador really so stupid that he confuses what is with what should be?

We could just ask him, but since he's on a creationist blog he would probably delete the question.

   
Annyday



Posts: 583
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 27 2007,22:43   

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 27 2007,21:46)
Is Salvador really so stupid that he confuses what is with what should be?

Yes. Almost all creationists are.

For that matter, this particular fallacy seems to be, well, one of the most natural ways of thinking. "Is" and "ought" often do not seem to be intuitively separate.

ETA: Further, Sal's version of God would probably like Hitler more than Jesus. Jesus was, at the end of the day, a religious leader who got executed. Hitler staged a human drama of vast and amazing scope, so great that his name has become synonymous with evil. It's not hard to choose which one God, being a novelist with a flair of the dramatic and macabre, would rather let into heaven.

--------------
"ALL eight of the "nature" miracles of Jesus could have been accomplished via the electroweak quantum tunneling mechanism. For example, walking on water could be accomplished by directing a neutrino beam created just below Jesus' feet downward." - Frank Tipler, ISCID fellow

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2454
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,00:32   

Quote
Is Salvador really so stupid that he confuses what is with what should be?

We could just ask him, but since he's on a creationist blog he would probably delete the question.

Oh, he wouldn't.  It wouldn't even make it to the delete button - you have to be invited onto the blog to be able to comment.

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Albatrossity2



Posts: 2780
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,11:41   

Sal is enamored with his current gig at Johns Hopkins University and some of the faculty there, whom he apparently regards as ID proponents.
Quote
Unlike Baylor, the ID controversy is not very prominent at Johns Hopkins. Thanks be to the Intelligent Designer for that. As a result, various ID proponents and ID sympathizers have been a part of this wonderful institution.

The foremost name from my school would probably Christian Anfinsen from the Department of Biology. Anfinsen won the Nobel Prize in Chemistry in 1972 “for his work on ribonuclease, especially concerning the connection between the amino acid sequence and the biologically active conformation.” Anfinsen is one of seven Nobel Prize Winners from Johns Hopkins.

Anfinsen wrote an ensorsement for the book Not by Chance, Shattering the Modern Theory of Evolution written by his fellow Johns Hopkins professor, bio-physicist Lee Spetner. He wrote of Spetner’s ID work:

   …extremely thorough and compelling

That latter blurb is from the book jacket of Spetner's book; I'd love to read the rest of the review, but am unable to find it anywhere.

Nevertheless, Sal should also know that Anfinsen was one of the signatories of an amicus curiae brief submitted by Nobel Prize winners on the correct side of the case in Edwards v. Aguillard. That brief is of more than usual historical significance, as documented here in an article in Science, Technology and Human Values. Anfinsen was also the author of a classic (1959) biochemistry tome entitled The Molecular Basis of Evolution which I read as an undergrad.  Since Anfinsen died in 1995, he is not around to defend his reputation, but I sincerely doubt that he would be a friend of Sal's, or a supporter of ID...

--------------
Flesh of the sky, child of the sky, the mind
Has been obligated from the beginning
To create an ordered universe
As the only possible proof of its own inheritance.
                        - Pattiann Rogers

   
Richardthughes



Posts: 11175
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,11:47   

http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/154#comment-691

Quote
Reminds me of a discussion I had with my son one evening. I asked him why he thought God allowed evil to take place in the world. He said, “Without conflict, there would be nothing to write about”. Made sense to me.

It seems to me that everything in life centers around our choices, and we certainly learn the most important life lessons from mistakes we’ve made or the evil we’ve encountered. And, as you pointed out, how would we appreciate the good, if evil didn’t exist? I could go on and on about this and probably will in a post sometime soon since you have me thinking about it again.

The problem with this subject is that, in the end, we’ll never know for sure what God’s ultimate reasoning was for why and how he created the universe until we reach those pearly gates. But, then again, if we knew everything, life would be unbelievably boring. I just hope the good Lord is patient with me when I pass through those gates, because due to the personality he bestowed upon me, He is going to be bombarded with so many questions our discussion may go on for all eternity.

Comment by Ftk — December 27, 2007 @ 10:32 pm



--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3325
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,11:59   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 28 2007,11:47)
http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/154#comment-691

 
Quote
I just hope the good Lord is patient with me when I pass through those gates, because due to the personality he bestowed upon me, He is going to be bombarded with so many questions our discussion may go on for all eternity.

Comment by Ftk — December 27, 2007 @ 10:32 pm


Well for goodness sake, she can talk to God right now.

--------------
It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:00   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 28 2007,11:47)
http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/154#comment-691

 
Quote
Reminds me of a discussion I had with my son one evening. I asked him why he thought God allowed evil to take place in the world. He said, “Without conflict, there would be nothing to write about”. Made sense to me.

It seems to me that everything in life centers around our choices, and we certainly learn the most important life lessons from mistakes we’ve made or the evil we’ve encountered. And, as you pointed out, how would we appreciate the good, if evil didn’t exist? I could go on and on about this and probably will in a post sometime soon since you have me thinking about it again.

The problem with this subject is that, in the end, we’ll never know for sure what God’s ultimate reasoning was for why and how he created the universe until we reach those pearly gates. But, then again, if we knew everything, life would be unbelievably boring. I just hope the good Lord is patient with me when I pass through those gates, because due to the personality he bestowed upon me, He is going to be bombarded with so many questions our discussion may go on for all eternity.

Comment by Ftk — December 27, 2007 @ 10:32 pm


FtK's conversation with god might go something like this.



--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
Ftk



Posts: 2239
Joined: Mar. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:25   

Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 28 2007,12:00)
Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 28 2007,11:47)
http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/154#comment-691

 
Quote
Reminds me of a discussion I had with my son one evening. I asked him why he thought God allowed evil to take place in the world. He said, “Without conflict, there would be nothing to write about”. Made sense to me.

It seems to me that everything in life centers around our choices, and we certainly learn the most important life lessons from mistakes we’ve made or the evil we’ve encountered. And, as you pointed out, how would we appreciate the good, if evil didn’t exist? I could go on and on about this and probably will in a post sometime soon since you have me thinking about it again.

The problem with this subject is that, in the end, we’ll never know for sure what God’s ultimate reasoning was for why and how he created the universe until we reach those pearly gates. But, then again, if we knew everything, life would be unbelievably boring. I just hope the good Lord is patient with me when I pass through those gates, because due to the personality he bestowed upon me, He is going to be bombarded with so many questions our discussion may go on for all eternity.

Comment by Ftk — December 27, 2007 @ 10:32 pm


FtK's conversation with god might go something like this.


Bill, Dave, and a few others of you who still display an iota of sense every once in a while, please note that this post is simliar to what Sal was doing.  Taking things out of context and twisting them endlessly in order to try to make a point.

It's used as merely a means of provocation or to try to untactfully make a point (if understood as the writer intended).  I don't agree with the method and rarely use it unless provoked to the point of no return.  Then, after thinking better of it, I have to go back and apologize...hate that.

--------------
"Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11175
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:29   

Which bits do you think are twisted in the cartoon, FtK?


God should be taller, obviously.

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Rob



Posts: 154
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:30   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 27 2007,18:00)
Sal is unemployable. I'm sure he can't wait to cry "persecution".

He's already started.

--------------
-- Rob, the fartist formerly known as 2ndclass

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:33   

Quote
Reminds me of a discussion I had with my son one evening. I asked him why he thought God allowed evil to take place in the world. He said, “Without conflict, there would be nothing to write about”. Made sense to me.


So, god allows hitler to do his thing to make life more interesting.  As a parent i find this sort of rationalization highly disturbing and even more disturbing is the parent not only allows their child to hold this sick view but encourages it.

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Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:34   

Anfinsen displayed his antipathy to evolutionary theory, and particularly common ancestry, here:

a-Amylase from the Hyperthermophilic Archaebacterium
Pyrococcus furiosus

CLONING AND SEQUENCING OF THE GENE AND EXPRESSION IN ESCHERICHIA COLI

Kenneth A. Ladermant, K. Asadap, T. UemoriQ, H. Mukait, Y. TaguchiQ, I. Katot, and Christian B. Anfinsen

[from the summary on page 24407]

...Perhaps the most interesting facet of this research are the  evolutionary implications of the sequence homology between the a-amylases of P. furiosu-s and D. thermophilum. Based on molecular phylogeny using rRNA sequences, existing organisms are seen to fall into three coherent groups eukaryotes, eubacteria, and archaebacteria (Fox et al., 1980). Substantial physiological and structural differences exist between archaebacteria and eubacteria, which is evidence of their deep evolutionary separation (Woese, 1985). The phylogenetic tree prepared by Pace et al. (1986) places archaebacteria closer to the common ancestor of all the kingdoms than one or both of the other primary kingdoms, suggesting that archaebacteria are more primitive than one or both of the other lines. D.  thermophilum is a Gram-negative, obligately anaerobic, extremely thermophilic bacterium (Saiki et al., 1985). It shares with P. furiosus a low G + C content and a tolerance for extreme thermal conditions, but is a member of a different  phylogenetic kingdom. D. thermophilum has been shown to  produce three different species of cuamylase, which can be  classified into two separate classes. First, amylase A, which displays a high degree of homology with the P. furiosus aamylase, and second, amylase B and amylase C, which display  homology with Takaamylase A (Toda et al., 1982). No significant homology exists between these two classes, suggesting that they represent two independent gene families or a single family which diverged at a point so distant that no feature save enzyme activity remains as evidence of their relationship. It is possible, since archaebacteria are considered to represent a primitive kingdom, that the P. furiosus cYamylase, and therefore the D. thermophilum amylase A, may be an example of an archaic form of the enzyme which is well suited to extreme temperatures. In contrast, the D. thermophilum amylases B and C contain regions known to be well conserved in several Bacillus species, hog, mouse, and human amylases (Fukusumi et al., 1988), and they represent the common form of the enzyme, various examples of which are active over a wide range of temperatures.

(The Journal of Biological Chemistry, Vol. 268, No. 32, Issue of November 15, pp. 24402-24407, 1993)

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,12:41   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 28 2007,13:29)
Which bits do you think are twisted in the cartoon, FtK?


God should be taller, obviously.

Pretty sure Ftk has arms. Plus they way she tells it, it's gonna be Ftk driving God nuts with the questions, not the reverse. (He'll attempt patient explanations for awhile, but then...)

So this IS twisted.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 28 2007,13:35   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 28 2007,12:25)
Bill, Dave, and a few others of you who still display an iota of sense every once in a while, please note that this post is simliar to what Sal was doing.  Taking things out of context and twisting them endlessly in order to try to make a point.

It's used as merely a means of provocation or to try to untactfully make a point (if understood as the writer intended).  I don't agree with the method and rarely use it unless provoked to the point of no return.  Then, after thinking better of it, I have to go back and apologize...hate that.

FtK, like it or not, you are a living caricature of everything that's wrong about religion in general and creationism in particular.  You've been good enough to buttress that contention by avoiding the issues raised by your comments about conversations with god and that particular comic strip, and just wah-wahing about "provocation."

If your god exists, you might have some uncomfortable questions to answer about biblical exegesis and hypocrisy, for starters.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2007,14:24   

Sal:  
Quote
I reject Darwinism because it’s a stupid theory written by a stupid pretender. Fish do not turn into birds, and birds don’t turn into cows and nor cows into whales via mechanism we see in operation today.


Whoa! A Finnish creationist got that very same "argument" printed in an opinion piece in a newspaper today. It is filled with the usual garbage: no transitional fossils, naturalism limits science, etc. I'm currently writing a reply to it, as I've done several times before.

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I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2007,20:03   

Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 26 2007,18:53)
Madeline Murry O'Hair deserved to be murdered, says Sal:

 
Quote
These bad apples have caused the general public to form a stereotype in their mind that atheists are mean-spiritied amoral people like Madeline Murry O’Hair. O’Hair regularly courted criminals as her cronies and was punished by God through cruel death.


http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/151

(Linked from Pharyngula)

Edit: Madalyn Murray O'Hair, not Madeline Murry O'Hair. Should have known better than to trust Sal's English, long known to be poor.

was jesus punished by god too?  his death was pretty cruel, at least if you believe the christian snuff film produced by mel gibson.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2007,20:06   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 28 2007,12:29)
Which bits do you think are twisted in the cartoon, FtK?


God should be taller, obviously.

And He should lose the beard. He looks like a goddamn hippie.  :angry:

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2007,20:11   

Quote (Ftk @ Dec. 28 2007,12:25)
 
Quote (Jim_Wynne @ Dec. 28 2007,12:00)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 28 2007,11:47)
http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/154#comment-691

     
Quote
Reminds me of a discussion I had with my son one evening. I asked him why he thought God allowed evil to take place in the world. He said, “Without conflict, there would be nothing to write about”. Made sense to me.

It seems to me that everything in life centers around our choices, and we certainly learn the most important life lessons from mistakes we’ve made or the evil we’ve encountered. And, as you pointed out, how would we appreciate the good, if evil didn’t exist? I could go on and on about this and probably will in a post sometime soon since you have me thinking about it again.

The problem with this subject is that, in the end, we’ll never know for sure what God’s ultimate reasoning was for why and how he created the universe until we reach those pearly gates. But, then again, if we knew everything, life would be unbelievably boring. I just hope the good Lord is patient with me when I pass through those gates, because due to the personality he bestowed upon me, He is going to be bombarded with so many questions our discussion may go on for all eternity.

Comment by Ftk — December 27, 2007 @ 10:32 pm


FtK's conversation with god might go something like this.


Bill, Dave, and a few others of you who still display an iota of sense every once in a while, please note that this post is simliar to what Sal was doing.  Taking things out of context and twisting them endlessly in order to try to make a point.

It's used as merely a means of provocation or to try to untactfully make a point (if understood as the writer intended).  I don't agree with the method and rarely use it unless provoked to the point of no return.  Then, after thinking better of it, I have to go back and apologize...hate that.

You guys are taking this totally out of context! You're worse than Sal!
:angry:

 
Quote
14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
14:27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sitteth not down first, and counteth the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it?
14:29 Lest haply, after he hath laid the foundation, and is not able to finish it, all that behold it begin to mock him,
14:30 Saying, This man began to build, and was not able to finish.
14:31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, sitteth not down first, and consulteth whether he be able with ten thousand to meet him that cometh against him with twenty thousand?
14:32 Or else, while the other is yet a great way off, he sendeth an ambassage, and desireth conditions of peace.
14:33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.


 
Quote
18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
18:19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God.
18:20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
18:21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.


--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2007,20:15   

Quote (Mr_Christopher @ Dec. 29 2007,20:03)
 
Quote (stevestory @ Dec. 26 2007,18:53)
Madeline Murry O'Hair deserved to be murdered, says Sal:

   
Quote
These bad apples have caused the general public to form a stereotype in their mind that atheists are mean-spiritied amoral people like Madeline Murry O’Hair. O’Hair regularly courted criminals as her cronies and was punished by God through cruel death.


http://www.youngcosmos.com/blog/archives/151

(Linked from Pharyngula)

Edit: Madalyn Murray O'Hair, not Madeline Murry O'Hair. Should have known better than to trust Sal's English, long known to be poor.

was jesus punished by god too?  his death was pretty cruel, at least if you believe the christian snuff film produced by mel gibson.

So why did the Disembodied Frontloading Entity punish O'Hair with a cruel death but allowed Stalin and Mao to live long, destructive lives, uninterrupted?*

Oh yes, I forgot: cuz it's interesting.

I guess where O'Hair screwed up is that she was boring.

(*Also, I can't help but notice that Little Old Adolf died by his own hand at 56.)

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
rhmc



Posts: 340
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 29 2007,20:24   

thanks for the "russells teapot".   what a hoot.

  
olegt



Posts: 1405
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2007,10:41   

Sal explains, half-jokingly, that young-universe apologetics is the Chewbacca defense, a fictional legal strategy used in the South Park episode "Chef Aid".  The aim of the argument is to deliberately confuse the jury.  

I am not making it up.

Quote
I seriously think YEC has a chance, but I used the term "Chewbacca Defense of YEC" to humorously describe the process of defending YEC by criticizing the Big Bang since such a line of argumentation is a bit unsporting.


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Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2007,14:20   

Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 27 2007,18:00)
Sal is unemployable. I'm sure he can't wait to cry "persecution".

I can't imagine what Sal thinks he's accomplishing. It's like he's made a conscious decision to never be taken seriously by anyone again, and he's deliberately settling into some gross parody of a YEC'er. All I can figure is that he wants to be Guillermo Gonzalez or Richard Sternberg when he grows up. Score your 'martyrdom' credentials, then settle into a cozy sinecure with the DI.

Can't help but wonder what his MA or PhD committees will think of his street theater. I suspect they'll take a dimmer view of it than he realizes.

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2007,14:32   

Since he is an expert in misrepresentation, he may be able to fool a committee long enough to jump through a few hoops.  The question is who would want to be associated with such a student?  I wouldn't.

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You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
Kristine



Posts: 3061
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Dec. 30 2007,15:04   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ Dec. 30 2007,13:20)
 
Quote (Richardthughes @ Dec. 27 2007,18:00)
Sal is unemployable. I'm sure he can't wait to cry "persecution".

I can't imagine what Sal thinks he's accomplishing. It's like he's made a conscious decision to never be taken seriously by anyone again, and he's deliberately settling into some gross parody of a YEC'er. All I can figure is that he wants to be Guillermo Gonzalez or Richard Sternberg when he grows up. Score your 'martyrdom' credentials, then settle into a cozy sinecure with the DI.

Can't help but wonder what his MA of PhD committees will think of his street theater. I suspect they'll take a dimmer view of it than he realizes.

I just watched The Crucible (Daniel Day-Lewis version) and I don't know why this did not occur to me before, since I long ago conducted research about the Salem Witch Trials, including reading the trial transcripts, but Sal's special pleading for design sounds exactly like the "invisible crime/invisible evidence" argument for witchcraft employed at that time. The learned judges (lawyers, again) who condemned innocent people to die also did not have to match the "pathetic level of detail" required of more worldly crimes.

However, the largely untold story of the Salem Witch Trials is how the judges ultimately became trapped in their own pseudoevidence, and ruined their own reputations, and could not escape their own specially formulated due process even when they grew sick of their own power. Aside from the executions, the jails filled; orphans proliferated; farms fell to ruin, all because people had good intentions about leading a village "back to God."

This is a form of hysteria. Sal and the others are caught up in it, but this is different in that they have not only cast themselves in the role of the victims but in that of the judges, too. And as there were people who exploited the witch trials, accusing neighbors whose land they coveted or in retaliation for a long-standing grudge, so a vein of opportunism runs through the motives of Sal, Dembski, et al. It is as if this gaggle of IDists are playing most of the roles in Arthur Miller's play. I wonder who they would hang, if they could - but they're really hanging themselves, on their own ropes, aren't they!

I can't adequately express the sense of weirdness that I got watching this play (after not seeing or reading it for so long), and hearing familiar sentiments from the characters - accusers, judges, and villagers - that Sal and his colleagues are saying now.

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Which came first: the shimmy, or the hip?

AtBC Poet Laureate

"I happen to think that this prerequisite criterion of empirical evidence is itself not empirical." - Clive

"Damn you. This means a trip to the library. Again." -- fnxtr

  
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