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sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,00:26   

It took quite some time but finally DaveScot did it  
Quote
This is starting to look like a John Davison blog entry. Comments are now closed on it.
To say it with JAD's very own words
Quote
I love ist so!


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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,01:34   

Quote (bfish @ Mar. 27 2008,21:20)
And KF has rare moments of illumination.

 
Quote


16

kairosfocus

03/27/2008

5:15 am

A little fact-checking is in order I am afraid; after all, this is UD!

But only a little.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,01:45   

After reading DLH's latest dreck, I decided blatant sarcasm was the only response.

Bob O’H is a tard
Quote

Quote
Are there parallels between the effects of “Big Science” Darwinism severe job discrimination against non-Darwinists as shown in Expelled, and recent terrorism by Jihadists?

Not yet. The zealots from our training camps have yet to graduate (the selection regime is rather severe). But when they do, you’ll see waves of suicide bombings, hijackings and aerial assaults on centres of ignorance like churches, temples and warehouses of Chiquita Brands International. We were planning to target ISCID, but we can’t find it.


I wonder if they'll get the Chiquita reference.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,08:03   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 28 2008,01:45)
I wonder if they'll get the Chiquita reference.

Only if they read it in the shower, and they drop the soap...

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
themartu



Posts: 28
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,08:24   

Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 28 2008,01:45)

I wonder if they'll get the Chiquita reference.


DaveScott is the kind of guy that has Abba 'Gold' I would think.

  
carlsonjok



Posts: 3326
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,08:42   

Quote (themartu @ Mar. 28 2008,08:24)
Quote (Bob O'H @ Mar. 28 2008,01:45)

I wonder if they'll get the Chiquita reference.


DaveScott is the kind of guy that has Abba 'Gold' I would think.

This coinky-dink, coupled with the fact that both claim to live in Texas, leads me to the conclusion that Davescot is a sockpuppet of Mister DNA's.  Or Mister DNA is a sockpuppet of Davescot.  Either way, I can has duhzine infurence!!!!

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It's natural to be curious about our world, but the scientific method is just one theory about how to best understand it.  We live in a democracy, which means we should treat every theory equally. - Steven Colbert, I Am America (and So Can You!)

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,08:55   

Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 27 2008,23:13)
larrynormanfan ain't no tard    
Quote

kairosfocus said:
   
Quote
Christian = Nazi. Sure!
NOT!!!!!!!!!

Quite right: I agree totally. To say that Christians are fascists, or that Christianity is like fascism, is idiotic.
Just as idiotic, in fact, as the claim that Darwinism leads to Nazism.

Yeah?  Can anybody name a prominent Fascist, present or past, who WASN'T a Christian?

Didn't think so.

Try this: Virtually all Fascists were Christian, but not all Christians are Fascists.

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,09:11   

DaveTard:
   
Quote
Tuatara, the fastest (and perhaps slowest) evolving animal
DaveScot

Yet another missed prediction made by the chance & necessity theory of evolution. The Tuatara is one of the slowest evolving animals we know of - stable in form for tens of millions of years after it separated from early dinosaurs....Yet when research was conducted into the rate its DNA changes it was found to be the among the fastest known among all vertebrates...
     
Quote
“What we found is that the tuatara has the highest molecular evolutionary rate that anyone has measured,” Professor Lambert says.

The rate of evolution for Adélie penguins, which Professor Lambert and his team have studied in the Antarctic for many years, is slightly slower than that of the tuatara. The tuatara rate is significantly faster than for animals including the cave bear, lion, ox and horse.

“Of course we would have expected that the tuatara, which does everything slowly – they grow slowly, reproduce slowly and have a very slow metabolism – would have evolved slowly. In fact, at the DNA level, they evolve extremely quickly, which supports a hypothesis proposed by the evolutionary biologist Allan Wilson, who suggested that the rate of molecular evolution was uncoupled from the rate of morphological evolution.”

Allan Wilson was a pioneer of molecular evolution. His ideas were controversial when introduced 40 years ago, but this new research supports them.

In short, evidence has been found that supports an hypothesis proposed by an evolutionary biologist operating from within a Darwinian framework. It does so by confirming a specific empirical prediction arising from that hypothesis.

DaveTard reads this as "another missed prediction." But he IS DaveTard, after all. Tard bites man.

Meanwhile, we still await one - just one - prediction of similar empirical specificity to emerge from ID creationism. And wait, and wait...

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Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,09:31   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 28 2008,09:11)
DaveTard:
   
Quote
Tuatara, the fastest (and perhaps slowest) evolving animal
DaveScot

Yet another missed prediction made by the chance & necessity theory of evolution. The Tuatara is one of the slowest evolving animals we know of - stable in form for tens of millions of years after it separated from early dinosaurs....Yet when research was conducted into the rate its DNA changes it was found to be the among the fastest known among all vertebrates...
     
Quote
“What we found is that the tuatara has the highest molecular evolutionary rate that anyone has measured,” Professor Lambert says.

The rate of evolution for Adélie penguins, which Professor Lambert and his team have studied in the Antarctic for many years, is slightly slower than that of the tuatara. The tuatara rate is significantly faster than for animals including the cave bear, lion, ox and horse.

“Of course we would have expected that the tuatara, which does everything slowly – they grow slowly, reproduce slowly and have a very slow metabolism – would have evolved slowly. In fact, at the DNA level, they evolve extremely quickly, which supports a hypothesis proposed by the evolutionary biologist Allan Wilson, who suggested that the rate of molecular evolution was uncoupled from the rate of morphological evolution.”

Allan Wilson was a pioneer of molecular evolution. His ideas were controversial when introduced 40 years ago, but this new research supports them.

In short, evidence has been found that supports an hypothesis proposed by an evolutionary biologist operating from within a Darwinian framework. It does so by confirming a specific empirical prediction arising from that hypothesis.

DaveTard reads this as "another missed prediction." But he IS DaveTard, after all. Tard bites man.

Meanwhile, we still await one - just one - prediction of similar empirical specificity to emerge from ID creationism. And wait, and wait...

I read that and when I got to the bit where it said
Quote
which supports a hypothesis proposed by the evolutionary biologist Allan Wilson, who suggested that the rate of molecular evolution was uncoupled from the rate of morphological evolution

I wondered if DS had been taking his medication.

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I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies".
FTK

if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand
Gordon Mullings

  
k.e..



Posts: 5432
Joined: May 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,09:51   

Quote (CeilingCat @ Mar. 28 2008,08:55)
Quote (Hermagoras @ Mar. 27 2008,23:13)
larrynormanfan ain't no tard      
Quote

kairosfocus said:
     
Quote
Christian = Nazi. Sure!
NOT!!!!!!!!!

Quite right: I agree totally. To say that Christians are fascists, or that Christianity is like fascism, is idiotic.
Just as idiotic, in fact, as the claim that Darwinism leads to Nazism.

Yeah?  Can anybody name a prominent Fascist, present or past, who WASN'T a Christian?

Didn't think so.

Try this: Virtually all Fascists were Christian, but not all Christians are Fascists.

....yeah well we are talking about an Identity Politics movement here;

Which depends on propaganda to reproduce the meme.....to paraphrase Herr Joe G.

"Jesus and Buddha had one simple message with which they conquered to world and that's what we will do...with one simple message: god is on our side ..... And fuck everyone who stands in our way".

Dembski is a kinder Satan next to Herr Joe...

from http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/pre1933.htm

Quote
There are two kinds of propaganda, one aimed at the understanding, the other the feelings. Both depend on imponderables. Worldview movements aim for the feelings. The force behind worldview movements has never been understanding, but rather faith. For example: Christ never wrote a party program, but did preach the Sermon on the Mount. In it he laid the foundations of a new world, summarized in the simple phrase "Love your neighbor as yourself."




Quote
The goal of our propaganda is control of the government. We want to replace the organization with a state founded on the idea


Quote
Some kind of idea is at the beginning of every political movement. It is not necessary to put this idea in a thick book, nor that it take political form in a hundred long paragraphs. History proves that the greatest world movements have always developed when their leaders knew how to unify their followers under a short, clear theme. That is clear from the French Revolution, or Cromwell's movement, or Buddhism, Islam, or Christianity. Christ's goal was clear and simple: "Love your neighbor as yourself." He gathered his followers behind that straightforward statement. Because this teaching was simple, crisp, clear, and understandable, enabling the broad masses to stand behind it, it in the end conquered the world.



Quote
The state needs a worldview. Christianity also conquered the state, and in the moment that it conquered the state it began to carry out practical political activity. You can with justice claim: "Yes, but at the moment Christianity took over the state, it began to cease being Christian." That is the tragedy of all great ideas. At the moment they enter the realm of this life of sin, of the all-too-human, they leave the heavens and lose their romantic magic. They become something normal. We are not discussing whether or not one can change the nature of life. Things have gone on this way for millions of years, and will go on in the same way for millions more. You will have to ask a higher power why that is so. At the moment an idea takes practical form, it loses its angel's wings, its romantic mystery. If someone had had the courage to strip the völkisch idea of its romantic mystery, if one had taken account of the hard facts, it would not look as romantic today as it does to some dreamers. But it would have kept millions of German children from starving. For me, it is more important that a nation lives than that an idea remains as pure as possible in the heads of a few dreamers.



Nazis were radical Christian "identity politics" theofacists; that is clear, they are  almost indistinguishable from 'merikas 'vanjelicants.

Goebbels distilled his ideas for control of the state by his ideology from religion.

Particularly Christianity and used it and its themes and memes to intermingle radical right wing worldview Identity Politics into a powerful almost world dominating force through the simple thought control propaganda used by religion. Nothing has come that close until Bush came to power.

Simply put; Christianity and Fascism are blood kinder and cannot be separated

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"I get a strong breeze from my monitor every time k.e. puts on his clown DaveTard suit" dogdidit
"ID is deader than Lenny Flanks granmaws dildo batteries" Erasmus
"I'm busy studying scientist level science papers" Galloping Gary Gaulin

  
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,10:20   

Quote
jerry: It is hard to understand where this animal fits into the scheme of things. There is a cladogram in the Wikipedia page for it.

In terms of evolution this cladogram showed five branches, tuatara, lizards, snakes, crocodiles and birds. Now a major themes of the Darwinists, almost a fundamental canon of their belief system is that birds evolved from dinosaurs. Yet this cladogram shows that birds and crocodiles had a common ancestor and there are no dinosaurs.

This is a major problem for the Darwinists unless someone can explain it away.

Well, the diagram is labeled "Cladogram showing relationships of extant members of the Sauria". But if you consider birds to be dinosaurs, then dinosaurs are already represented on the cladogram.



Wikipedia on Tuatara


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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Zachriel



Posts: 2723
Joined: Sep. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,10:36   

Clarence tries to introduce some semblance of rationality to the discussion. Jerry counters.

Quote
Peter: Evolution is such a greate theory. It can never be disproven. No wonder so many scientist like Darwinism. It makes their jobs so much easier when they don’t have to explain the facts.

Clarence: On the contrary - like any other scientific field, the facts are precisely what do have to be explained. If scientists wanted an easy life they could just ignore facts. As this article shows, they don’t. The facts are the facts, and if necessary theories need to be modified (or even abandoned) where necessary to account for the facts). Every scientific theory is provisional, and is always csubject to change when new facts demand it.

En Garde!

Quote
jerry: But they do ignore facts all the time.

Thrust!

Quote
jerry: Especially when writing textbooks on biology and evolution.

Parry!

Quote
jerry: The facts falsify the Darwinian theory of evolution except when it is trivial as in micro-evolution yet they never acknowledge it.

Riposte!



Rationality once again held at bay ... for now.

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You never step on the same tard twice—for it's not the same tard and you're not the same person.

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,15:12   

JPCollado is full of The Argument Regarding Design:


Quote
I just want to know what they mean by “high molecular evolutionary rate.” It can’t be mutations, since there is no such thing at the molecular level. You need genes for that. So what are they referring to? These scientists are so blinded by evolutionary dogma that they are having trouble making the appropriate distinctions.


Should somebody tell JPCollado that genes are made of DNA, which is a molecule?

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,15:17   

If I wanted to sockpuppet UD I would choose the name tuaTARD.

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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,15:20   

DeepDesign:
Quote
I just hope ID is right. Won’t we look silly.


ID is wrong.

Q.E.D., literally.  :D

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"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Advocatus Diaboli



Posts: 198
Joined: Nov. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,15:45   

Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 28 2008,09:11)


In short, evidence has been found that supports an hypothesis proposed by an evolutionary biologist operating from within a Darwinian framework. It does so by confirming a specific empirical prediction arising from that hypothesis.

DaveTard reads this as "another missed prediction." But he IS DaveTard, after all. Tard bites man.


I read that tard today, and had to stop and think how could anyone not understand the Tuatara story. Understanding that I could never understand, I fled UD.

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I once thought that I made a mistake, but I was wrong.

"I freely admit I’m a sociopath" - DaveScot

"Most importanly, the facts are on the side of ID." - scordova

"UD is the greatest website of all time." stevestory

   
J-Dog



Posts: 4402
Joined: Dec. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,15:58   

Quote (Advocatus Diaboli @ Mar. 28 2008,15:45)
Quote (Reciprocating Bill @ Mar. 28 2008,09:11)


In short, evidence has been found that supports an hypothesis proposed by an evolutionary biologist operating from within a Darwinian framework. It does so by confirming a specific empirical prediction arising from that hypothesis.

DaveTard reads this as "another missed prediction." But he IS DaveTard, after all. Tard bites man.


I read that tard today, and had to stop and think how could anyone not understand the Tuatara story. Understanding that I could never understand, I fled UD.

You should just go ahead and post in your native "moon-language".  They wouldn't know the difference - It would just be more science they couldn't hope to understand.

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Come on Tough Guy, do the little dance of ID impotence you do so well. - Louis to Joe G 2/10

Gullibility is not a virtue - Quidam on Dembski's belief in the Bible Code Faith Healers & ID 7/08

UD is an Unnatural Douchemagnet. - richardthughes 7/11

  
Jkrebs



Posts: 590
Joined: Sep. 2004

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,19:42   

On the Tuatara thread:

Quote
41 JPCollado 03/28/2008 6:02 pm

jpcollado writes:
“just want to know what they mean by “high molecular evolutionary rate.” It can’t be mutations, since there is no such thing at the molecular level. You need genes for that.”

Jack Krebs:
“A small correction, as this statement is wrong. Genes are made of molecules, and it is specific DNA molecules within genes that mutate.”

Thank you Jack, I was careless here. What I really was referring to is the darwinian evolutionary process….there is no such thing at the molecular level…a point I tried to reiterate at post #23, viz., that a change in the sequence of nucleotides on a DNA molecule offers a defective framework for studying evolution.


I'm not interested in wading in over there again, but what could "a change in the sequence of nucleotides on a DNA molecule offers a defective framework for studying evolution" possibly mean?

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 28 2008,22:57   

Quote (Jkrebs @ Mar. 28 2008,17:42)
On the Tuatara thread:

   
Quote
41 JPCollado 03/28/2008 6:02 pm

jpcollado writes:
“just want to know what they mean by “high molecular evolutionary rate.” It can’t be mutations, since there is no such thing at the molecular level. You need genes for that.”

Jack Krebs:
“A small correction, as this statement is wrong. Genes are made of molecules, and it is specific DNA molecules within genes that mutate.”

Thank you Jack, I was careless here. What I really was referring to is the darwinian evolutionary process….there is no such thing at the molecular level…a point I tried to reiterate at post #23, viz., that a change in the sequence of nucleotides on a DNA molecule offers a defective framework for studying evolution.


I'm not interested in wading in over there again, but what could "a change in the sequence of nucleotides on a DNA molecule offers a defective framework for studying evolution" possibly mean?

I'm pretty sure in IDese it means:  "I haven't the least idea as to what the hell I'm talking about"  Everything in IDese means that.  It's kind of like the inverse of Smurfian, where "smurf" can mean whatever you want.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
sparc



Posts: 2088
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,00:05   

DLH    
Quote
Imprisoning or killing objectors. (e.g. in the USSR under Stalin for not complying with Darwinian Lysenkoism)
leo stoch  
Quote
Say what? “Darwinian Lysenkoism” is an oxymoron. Under Lysenkoism, it was the scientists who believed in natural selection (Darwinists, if you will) who were sent to the gulags. Stringing these two terms together shows that you are either regurgitating arguments you don’t understand or just throwing out emotionally charged buzzwords, in hopes of riling up those interested, but ill-informed onlookers, who don’t know any better. In either case, this is not what I would consider an acceptable level of scholarship.
Bob O'H  
Quote
Do you have the faintest clue what you’re on about here?
sparc  
Quote
 
Quote
“Darwinian Lysenkoism” is an oxymoron.
Unfortunately, DLH’s comment is only moros without any sign of being oxy.
DLH kind of backpaddels  
Quote
leo stotch 55, Bob O’H at 60, sparc 63 etc.
I agree with you on “Darwinian Lysenkoism”, so I deleted “Darwinian” above.
but still repeats his argument in the next sentence
Quote
I am trying to point out fascist and/or totalitarian imposition of world views with consequential loss of freedoms, and that those regimes were also undergirded by Darwinian principles and/or imposing them.


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"[...] the type of information we find in living systems is beyond the creative means of purely material processes [...] Who or what is such an ultimate source of information? [...] from a theistic perspective, such an information source would presumably have to be God."

- William Dembski -

   
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,04:51   

Here's a good one from Expelled at Biola — Ben Stein Receives the Phillip Johnson Award:

William Wallace:

     
Quote

03/28/2008

10:33 pm

I want the movie to come out so I can stop having to worry about reading spoilers.


That is just so sad.  Funny as all get out, but deeply, deeply sad.  It's like the poor bastard thinks this is gonna be the ID movement's equivalent of...well...a real movie.

     
Quote

But the fact that a scientist has to have his face masked is more evidence that the PT-mafia (NCSE/TalkOrigins/Panda’s Thumb/wickedpedia) will destroy those who do not toe the neo-Darwinian line.


Evidence is some unidentified person purporting to be a scientist making unsubstantiated claims? .....Sounds about right to me.  I'm sold.

Oh, and he's gotten the PT-mafia thing all fucked up.  He forgot the fifth family: RDNet, which is of course officially tasked with all Darwinist black ops: destabilizing the administrations of Christian universities, suppressing research by rigging the peer review process, water-boarding suspected ID operatives at secret facilities in the Galapagos, planting agents provocateur within the ranks of the faithful in order damage IDs reputation by saying really stupid shit on the internet and publishing plainly ridiculous "non-fiction", infiltrating private invitation only film screenings, character assassination of ID scholars, et cetera. Oh, and plotting the destruction of Israel and the resurrection of Hitler via advanced genetic engineering learned from the aliens being held prisoner in Area 51.

I know all this because a scientist in a mask told me.  Or maybe that was just the guy cooking the meth. I haven't slept in, like, a month and it's hard to remember stuff sometimes. Whatever, I believe it.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,05:55   

Dave's gotten angry
Quote

Allen
Due to disrupting threads with continued denialism you’re now in moderation. If you want to quote Mein Kampf at length do it on your own blog.

Allen's post seems to have disappeared too.

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,06:15   

He just recently posted to Pharyngula.  DaveScot banished him.  How on earth he lasted this long, I have no idea.  I've had 4 accounts just stop working for no apparent reason after only a couple posts each.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,06:24   

Oh snap! So very nice this is:

Quote

03/29/2008

6:12 am

Thank you for stopping Allen’s posts. I always found his presumption that he knew more about evolution than us just because he is a biology professor annoying.

And quoting Mein Kampf in an attempt to try and show that Hitler thought he was doing God’s work was a low blow. Hitler was a sociopath and distorted anything and everything he could get his hands on to justify his evil beliefs. It is just irrelevant that SS belt buckles said Gott Mit Uns. Religion is just one of the things that the Nazis twisted beyond all recognition.


A bit unsubtle, perhaps, but still pretty damn good.

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I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Art



Posts: 69
Joined: Dec. 2002

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,07:28   

Um, David Barton is an acceptable source at UD???

I know, I know.  Dog bites man.

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,07:46   

Link for Allen MacNeill being censored

A new sock-puppet has appeared at UD in the past couple of days.  Whoever you are, carry on - you're doing great!

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It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,08:03   

Allen MacNeill fell into moderation at UD after having attempted to post the following. He added it as a comment at Pharyngula; I think it deserves repetition here:
 
Quote
While Hitler uses the word "evolution" in Mein Kampf, it is clear that he is not referring to Darwin's theory. Indeed, he never mentions Darwin at all. In fact, a look at his writings reveals his sentiments on the subject to be those of an orthodox creationist.

Like a creationist, Hitler asserts fixity of kinds:
"The fox remains always a fox, the goose remains a goose, and the tiger will retain the character of a tiger." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. xi

Like a creationist, Hitler claims that God made man:
"For it was by the Will of God that men were made of a certain bodily shape, were given their natures and their faculties." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. x

Like a creationist, Hitler affirms that humans existed "from the very beginning", and could not have evolved from apes:
"From where do we get the right to believe, that from the very beginning Man was not what he is today? Looking at Nature tells us, that in the realm of plants and animals changes and developments happen. But nowhere inside a kind shows such a development as the breadth of the jump , as Man must supposedly have made, if he has developed from an ape-like state to what he is today." - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier)

Like a creationist, Hitler believes that man was made in God's image, and in the expulsion from Eden:
"Whoever would dare to raise a profane hand against that highest image of God among His creatures would sin against the bountiful Creator of this marvel and would collaborate in the expulsion from Paradise." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol ii, ch. i

Like a creationist, Hitler believes that:
"God ... sent [us] into this world with the commission to struggle for our daily bread." - Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf, vol ii, ch. xiv
Like a creationist, Hitler claims Jesus as his inspiration:
"My feeling as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded only by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them." - Adolf Hitler, speech, April 12 1922, published in My New Order

Like a creationist, Hitler despises secular schooling:
"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such schools have no religious instruction, and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . we need believing people." - Adolf Hitler, Speech, April 26, 1933

Like a creationist, Hitler wished to make prayer compulsory in public schools. Unlike American creationists, he succeeded.

Hitler even goes so far as to claim that Creationism is what sets humans apart from the animals:
"The most marvelous proof of the superiority of Man, which puts man ahead of the animals, is the fact that he understands that there must be a Creator." - Adolf Hitler, Hitler's Tabletalk (Tischgesprache im Fuhrerhauptquartier)

Hitler does not mention evolution explicitly anywhere in Mein Kampf. However, after declaring the fixity of the fox, goose, and tiger, as quoted above, he goes on to talk of differences within species:
"[T]he various degrees of structural strength and active power, in the intelligence, efficiency, endurance, etc., with which the individual specimens are endowed." Mein Kampf, vol. ii, ch. xi)

So, like a creationist, there is some evolution he is prepared to concede -- evolution within species, or "microevolution", to which people like Phillip Johnson and Michael Behe have no objection. It is on the basis of the one part of evolutionary theory which creationists accept that Hitler tried to find a scientific basis for his racism and his program of eugenics.

Ergo, Hitler did not base his eugenic and genocidal policies on evolutionary theory, but rather on views that are very similar to those held by most creationists and many ID supporters.

Classic DaveTard followed.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,08:15   

And here DaveTard states the obvious: The notions undergirding eugenics and genocide have no inherent connection to an understanding of the operation of natural selection, and instead drew upon observations that were available to anyone involved in animal husbandry or agriculture:
     
Quote
32
DaveScot
03/29/2008
4:21 am
FtK

re; eugenics may not be all that bad

Scientifically, of course it isn’t. Darwin was 100% correct in saying that only the most ignorant allow their worst animals to breed and the only exception made to that animal husbandry rule is in the case of man allowing the worst of men to breed. As far as that goes it’s a rule in agriculture in general and it’s long proven it works - you don’t propagate the sickly, diseased plants in your garden do you if you’ve got healthy plants to choose from? Of course not.

That’s the scientific case and it’s indisputable. If it weren’t for moral objections the scientific case for selection of the fittest in humans for breeding purposes would easily carry the day. In the early years of the 20th century even in the United States it WAS carrying the day. Eugenics was all the rage amongst the intelligentsia.

Note that Dave advocates "pantloading," and does not believe that natural selection can do the work attributed to it by orthodox evolutionary biology. Hence his version of "the scientific case" excludes natural selection - yet "indisputably" points to eugenics.

Own goal, Dave.

--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
jeffox



Posts: 671
Joined: Oct. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,12:02   

Granny Porcupine decides to have her "writing" analyzed by an outside source:

Quote

Using an algorithm developed by Moshe Koppel, Bar-Ilan University in Israel, and Shlomo Argamon, Illinois Institute of Technology, you can find out whether the genie thinks you are a man or a woman by submitting a sample of your writing.

Given that the genie works best on texts of more than 500 words, I decided to submit my five most recent columns for ChristianWeek.

What do YOU think the Genie discovered from analyzing my writing?



Well, IMHO, the word I'd use is "morphodyke", and good ol' Dave seems to agree:

Quote

I entered one of yours on the same subject and it received a score of

male = 330
female = 252

It appears you’re not just more of a woman than I am, you’re more of a man than I am too!



That's all right, Dave found out that the same source called his writing "TARD".   :)

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 29 2008,12:32   

DaveTard is clearly having a bad day.

Fancy Allen having the cheek to use Hitler's own words when they'd rather search for tentative links and inferences!

And then there's that PZ Myers fella who Dave wanted to beat until we found he was a big fat bloater who is scared of clowns.

Its true what they're saying, though. "Expelled' is giving PZ Myers great publicity...

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"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
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