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dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,05:27   

Quote
This is one of the professors that Salvador trots out to show that ID is taught in college.  Unfortunately for Salvador, it looks like this professor will teach the truth.

Oh, the good professor's been very clear about where he stands from the beginning.  He is, after all, an evolutionary biologist.  Sal's attempts to exploit the fact that this course is being taught are about as honest as his claims that the scientific evidence supports ID.

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,08:05   

Quote (dhogaza @ July 01 2006,05:27)
Quote
This is one of the professors that Salvador trots out to show that ID is taught in college.  Unfortunately for Salvador, it looks like this professor will teach the truth.

Oh, the good professor's been very clear about where he stands from the beginning.  He is, after all, an evolutionary biologist.  Sal's attempts to exploit the fact that this course is being taught are about as honest as his claims that the scientific evidence supports ID.

Such as Genetic-ID using the Explanatory Filter.

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,08:10   

Davescot turns up to ask for a banning:

http://evolutionanddesign.blogsome.com/2006....ment-93

What, you expected science?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Richardthughes



Posts: 11178
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,08:17   

Quote (Richardthughes @ July 01 2006,13:10)
Davescot turns up to ask for a banning:

http://evolutionanddesign.blogsome.com/2006....ment-93

What, you expected science?

then brags about it here..

http://www.uncommondescent.com/index.php/archives/1273#comment-46084

He laso gets upset that about the claim that IDiots do no research. Why should they, when everyone else does?

--------------
"Richardthughes, you magnificent bastard, I stand in awe of you..." : Arden Chatfield
"You magnificent bastard! " : Louis
"ATBC poster child", "I have to agree with Rich.." : DaveTard
"I bow to your superior skills" : deadman_932
"...it was Richardthughes making me lie in bed.." : Kristine

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,08:22   

Quote
 
Quote
contra Salvador, who is basically a young-earth creationist cheerleader for the ID movement and will prove a consistently unreliable guide on the science


This is ad hominem and as such is against the ground rules. Moderator, please do your duty.

Comment by David Springer — July 1, 2006 @ 8:11 am


Is a simple statement of inarguable fact an 'ad hominem'? :-)

 
Quote
 
Quote

Prof. MacNeill writes:

And while you’re at it, show us all how ID does this without being utterly (and egregiously) parasitic on the work of generations of evolutionary biologists, field ecologists, laboratory geneticists and developmental biologists, and an army of other researchers who, unlike every ID theorist of my acquantance, has actually done field and/or laboratory research supporting their hypotheses, the results of which have been published in peer-reviewed mainstream scientific journals.

Citations of published papers and data are not restricted to only those who are in agreement with the author or investigator of the cited work. Denigrating those who interpret existing data in a different way is reprehensible.


[my boldfacing]

So never say anything bad about anyone's interpretation, if it's 'different'? ?

Goodness me, how does DT look himself in the mirror in the morning?

Quote
Nick Matzke directed some ad hominem remarks your way, Sal. I left a comment quoting Matzke and asking the moderator to enforce the rules. I also chastised MacNeill for saying that ID theorists do nothing but egregiously parasitize the work of others instead of doing their own research. I pointed out that published data is not owned by any particular theory. Everyone can use it. That’s why it is published.


[my boldfacing]

Um, DaveTard, that does NOT contradict the statement that "ID theorists do nothing but egregiously parasitize the work of others instead of doing their own research." Do try harder next time.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
deadman_932



Posts: 3094
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,09:37   

Welcome to the island, Jim_Wynne. Pull up a chair and grab yourself a frosty coconut brewski. *gack*

--------------
AtBC Award for Thoroughness in the Face of Creationism

  
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,10:11   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 01 2006,03:38)
Dembski's skating on thin ice.  He's complaining about someone who (a) appears to be less than honest in a book review on Amazon, and (b) dares to say that someone with a PhD in biology is talking rubbish, when they aren't themselves qualified.

Turn your irony-meters off before looking.

Bob

Something I didn't mention was that I tried to post the following on this thread:

Quote
It's terrible what you can get away with in Amazon reviews, isn't it?

Bob


It has mysteriously not shown up.  Now why would an innocent comment like that be censored?  :-)

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,10:19   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 01 2006,15:11)
   
Quote (Bob O'H @ July 01 2006,03:38)
Dembski's skating on thin ice.


It's the only kind of ice Bill has anymore. :p

 
Quote
 
Quote
He's complaining about someone who (a) appears to be less than honest in a book review on Amazon, and (b) dares to say that someone with a PhD in biology is talking rubbish, when they aren't themselves qualified.

Turn your irony-meters off before looking.

Bob

Something I didn't mention was that I tried to post the following on this thread:

     
Quote
It's terrible what you can get away with in Amazon reviews, isn't it?

Bob


It has mysteriously not shown up.  Now why would an innocent comment like that be censored?  :-)

Bob

You are not innocent, and I can attest, your mother is even less innocent. You're outta here.-dt

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"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
jujuquisp



Posts: 129
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,11:16   

Quote
Quote (steve_h @ June 30 2006,11:32)
If you look carefully, you'll find code for detecting when the time is right for the next planned mutation(s) to take place, and machinery for executing those none-random mutations. If you find a front loading fan who is not averse to pathetic levels of detail, he will happily point out exactly where that code is.
One prediction of front loading is that if you keep cloned bacteria isolated from each other but otherwise in identical conditions they will all experience roughly the same mutations in roughly the same order. Naturally, no so-called scientist who is part of the conspiracy would ever dare to do the experiment.
Front loading also explains why certain identical features are found in diverse places in the 'tree of life'. Conventional Darwinism can't explain that so they normally just deny that it happens. The common ancester was a single celled organism which had dna code for producing high intelligence and opposable thumbs, but that code usually only gets executed if you are human. However, if you zap the right 'call' instruction into the dna of a bacterium (or change the call address of an existing one) it will instantly acquire those traits.  See, for example, the famous picture of a mouse suddenly spouting a human ear. That set the Darwinists in a real panic and they had to invent a rather implausible alternative explanation.



When has a mouse spouted a human ear?   Where the #### did this come from?  I know the picture he is referring to, and it is of a mouse that has an ear-shaped mass formed artificially out of cartilage.  Fucking idiot.

  
blipey



Posts: 2061
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,11:19   

Can I nominate Lino D'Ischia as the dumbest IDiot around?

Read the comments above the link also...he's a genius.

--------------
But I get the trick question- there isn't any such thing as one molecule of water. -JoeG

And scientists rarely test theories. -Gary Gaulin

   
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,11:20   

Quote (Arden Chatfield @ July 01 2006,08:22)
   
Quote
       
Quote
contra Salvador, who is basically a young-earth creationist cheerleader for the ID movement and will prove a consistently unreliable guide on the science


This is ad hominem and as such is against the ground rules. Moderator, please do your duty.

Comment by David Springer — July 1, 2006 @ 8:11 am


Is a simple statement of inarguable fact an 'ad hominem'? :-)

       
Quote
       
Quote

Prof. MacNeill writes:

And while you’re at it, show us all how ID does this without being utterly (and egregiously) parasitic on the work of generations of evolutionary biologists, field ecologists, laboratory geneticists and developmental biologists, and an army of other researchers who, unlike every ID theorist of my acquantance, has actually done field and/or laboratory research supporting their hypotheses, the results of which have been published in peer-reviewed mainstream scientific journals.

Citations of published papers and data are not restricted to only those who are in agreement with the author or investigator of the cited work. Denigrating those who interpret existing data in a different way is reprehensible.


[my boldfacing]

So never say anything bad about anyone's interpretation, if it's 'different'? ?

Goodness me, how does DT look himself in the mirror in the morning?

   
Quote
Nick Matzke directed some ad hominem remarks your way, Sal. I left a comment quoting Matzke and asking the moderator to enforce the rules. I also chastised MacNeill for saying that ID theorists do nothing but egregiously parasitize the work of others instead of doing their own research. I pointed out that published data is not owned by any particular theory. Everyone can use it. That’s why it is published.


[my boldfacing]

Um, DaveTard, that does NOT contradict the statement that "ID theorists do nothing but egregiously parasitize the work of others instead of doing their own research." Do try harder next time.


And Sal responds
 
Quote
Thanks for pulling for me, bro.

When the other side starts resorting to ad hominems, rather than engaging the arguments, it’s a sign they know we’re scoring points. I actually take this as a good sign!

Regarding motivations and affilliations, a classic example of hypocrisy that has been suggested by some is the case of Barbara Forest (abbreviated BarFo).


Besides confusing ad hominem arguments with insults, Sal demonstrates the mote and beam parable.

  
keiths



Posts: 2195
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,13:01   

GilDodgen advocates attacking God the Designer:
Quote
Here’s a thought: What if the mutations that confer antibiotic resistance to bacteria are not random, but designed and engineered in some way? If they are random there is nothing we can do about it, but if they are designed perhaps we could find a way to attack the mechanism that engineers these “mutations,” and defeat the bugs once and for all. If this should turn out to be the case, this would be another example of how erroneous Darwinian assumptions led us down a blind alley, as they did with “junk” DNA and many “vestigial” organs.

Comment by GilDodgen — July 1, 2006 @ 9:24 am


--------------
And the set of natural numbers is also the set that starts at 0 and goes to the largest number. -- Joe G

Please stop putting words into my mouth that don't belong there and thoughts into my mind that don't belong there. -- KF

  
dhogaza



Posts: 525
Joined: Feb. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,14:40   

In the spirit of the World Cup, I thought I'd post this own goal by Mung:
Quote
What I am left wondering is, if computer simulations can demonstrate that it is possible to generate IC systems “based entirely on evolutionary principles (undirected random mutation and selection),” what was the basis of the rejection of IC on theoretical grounds?

I wonder if Judge Jones was aware of this letter, posted on the NCSE web site.

What does this tell us about IC?

A valid scientific and biological concept. Possible to study scientifically.

He seems to be missing the point ...

  
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 01 2006,14:54   

Quote (keiths @ July 01 2006,18:01)
GilDodgen advocates attacking God the Designer:
     
Quote
Here’s a thought: What if the mutations that confer antibiotic resistance to bacteria are not random, but designed and engineered in some way? If they are random there is nothing we can do about it, but if they are designed perhaps we could find a way to attack the mechanism that engineers these “mutations,” and defeat the bugs once and for all. If this should turn out to be the case, this would be another example of how erroneous Darwinian assumptions led us down a blind alley, as they did with “junk” DNA and many “vestigial” organs.

Comment by GilDodgen — July 1, 2006 @ 9:24 am

What the...? ? I know Gil says some of the dumbest things at UD, but what on earth is he even proposing here? He seems to be implying that ID will somehow magically enable us to cure diseases while 'Darwinism' couldn't, but what the fvck does 'attack the mechanism that engineers these mutations' mean? Prayer?

And is there a reason why he puts 'mutations' in quotes?

I doubt old Gil has any idea either. I suspect he just thought it all sounded cool.



--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
Alan Fox



Posts: 1556
Joined: Aug. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,00:36   

From a comment by Russ at UD (link)

 
Quote
This is standard operating procedure for Communist (totalitarian/athiest) governments. Religion—the opiate of the masses—is tolerated so long as it submits to the party’s will and serves the party’s political interests. And it relies on “useful idiots” who defend the party line even as the party cynically uses and secretly disprespects them.


Hmmm! (Tries a substitution)

This is standard operating procedure for right-wing US governments. Religion—the opiate of the masses—is tolerated so long as it submits to the party’s will and serves the party’s political interests. And it relies on “useful idiots” who defend the party line even as the party cynically uses and secretly disprespects them.

That's better.

  
guthrie



Posts: 696
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,01:47   

I think LIno D'ischia simply demonstrates that harldy anyone supporting ID etc has a grasp of the actual science, not even of the chemistry involved.  When you study chemistry, if you have any brains at all, you end up with a good idea of atoms, molecules, crystals, etc.  essentially you have a mental picture of strutures at the atomic level.  If you have that, you can comprehend a great deal, and wouldnt make such stupid statements as that Lino bloke did.  

Or at least I like to think you would'nt anyway...

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,06:16   

Ed Brayton discusses Dave and Larry's recent legal blatherings.

   
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,06:20   

Some people will say anything, anything, in order to avoid admitting they were wrong.

Quote
#24

Ah, that makes it more clear, thank you. But then why do you define jury nullification as this:

“What I want to talk about here is how the people have been stripped of their right to have a jury judge the law - commonly called jury nullification”

in your post if you, as you said, define it as being the jury nullifying the law? Is it “the jury nullifying the law” or “the jury being nullified”?

Jury nullification is the jury nullifying the law. The Dover school board was not allowed to put their case before a jury because of what I consider a loophole i.e. only injuctive relief was sought (plus punitive-size legal fees). If they’d have been able to put their case before a jury, even if the judge was convinced the board was guilty, the jury may have thought the law was wrong and found the school board innocent - in effect nullifying the law. -ds

Comment by Monimonika — June 30, 2006 @ 6:33 am


See? It's jury nullification, because if it had been qualified to be a jury trial, which it wasn't, and a jury trial happened, which it didn't, and the jury had nullified the law, which almost never happens, then it would have been jury nullification.

You evolutionists are truly out of your league, responding to such a brilliant legal mind.

Anyway, notice something else: he doesn't say the jury would have found the Dover school board not guilty, he says the jury would have nullified the law. Davetard admits, in other words, that the school board violated the law.

Hard to understand why ID keeps losing, with geniuses like this at the helm.

   
k.e



Posts: 1948
Joined: Mar. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,07:22   

You forget, they had the best in the business the Thomas Moore Law Center (giggle)

Next Larry (the best internet lawyer in the whole world) will bring up the 50 other just plain wrong reasons they lost the case.

Hey DT.... here's some free advice, internet lawyers like Larry ..are to the law, what internet sex is to sex. IANAL

--------------
The conservative has but little to fear from the man whose reason is the servant of his passions, but let him beware of him in whom reason has become the greatest and most terrible of the passions.These are the wreckers of outworn empires and civilisations, doubters, disintegrators, deicides.Haldane

   
Chris Hyland



Posts: 705
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,07:29   

Quote
You forget, they had the best in the business the Thomas Moore Law Center
I always thought the funniest part of the whole escapade was the fact that to prove that their policy was not religious they hired a law firm who's mission is to defend the religious freedom of Christians. I think that's called shooting yourself in the foot.

  
Jim_Wynne



Posts: 1208
Joined: June 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,07:36   

There's a new member of the UD commenting flock named Janie Bell, and she's started her own little blog.  She waxes confused over the whole jury nullification issue and here she appeals to a "legal expert" for clarification:

Quote
That whole legal fees thing is really getting to me. I was wondering to myself about whether it could be considered extortion. Since I have no legal background whatsoever, and since I had been meaning to join up over at Uncommon Descent anyway, I figured "why not go ask someone?" So I did. Nobody has answered yet, but I guess not everyone is on vacation for the whole summer.

I'll update this if Larry or some other legal expert over there ever answers.


We all know which "Larry" she's referring to.

--------------
Evolution is not about laws but about randomness on happanchance.--Robert Byers, at PT

  
Wonderpants



Posts: 115
Joined: Sep. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,08:39   

Quote
I'll update this if Larry or some other legal expert over there ever answers.


//sprays beer over kis keyboard and 6 feet up the wall at the thought of Larry being described as a legal expert

--------------
Fundamentalism in a nutshell:
"There are a lot of things I have concluded to be wrong, without studying them in-depth. Evolution is one of them. The fact that I don't know that much about it does not bother me in the least."

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,13:51   

Dave's still trying to act like he was right. What a clown.

   
Arden Chatfield



Posts: 6657
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,14:20   

Quote (stevestory @ July 02 2006,18:51)
Dave's still trying to act like he was right. What a clown.

Be nice. It can't be easy to be an expert in so many things one knows nothing about.

--------------
"Rich is just mad because he thought all titties had fur on them until last week when a shorn transvestite ruined his childhood dreams by jumping out of a spider man cake and man boobing him in the face lips." - Erasmus

  
mcc



Posts: 110
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,14:55   

Quote (Bob O'H @ July 01 2006,03:38)
Dembski's skating on thin ice.  He's complaining about someone who (a) appears to be less than honest in a book review on Amazon, and (b) dares to say that someone with a PhD in biology is talking rubbish, when they aren't themselves qualified.

Turn your irony-meters off before looking.

Bob

I saw that one and I can't decide what I find funnier about it. The insinuation that undergraduates don't participate in research programs, or the idea that Dembski apparently has nothing better to do than complain about Amazon.com book reviewers.

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,15:07   

Maybe if Ian Peters had a BSEE, Dembski would consider him an expert in medical research. Or perhaps a law degree.

PS--does anyone know if Wells is still a cultist? We know at one point he was, when the cult leader ordered him into anti-evolution, but do we know if he still is?

   
"Rev Dr" Lenny Flank



Posts: 2560
Joined: Feb. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,15:27   

Quote (stevestory @ July 02 2006,20:07)
PS--does anyone know if Wells is still a cultist? We know at one point he was, when the cult leader ordered him into anti-evolution, but do we know if he still is?

He was as of Kansas.  Irigonegary asked him about it.

--------------
Editor, Red and Black Publishers
www.RedandBlackPublishers.com

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,15:42   


"Go...my young Padewan...you must destroy evirution."



Yes master...your wish is my command.

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,19:35   

Bugger!  I turn my ironymeter off, and moved it into a different room, and this still made it explode:

 
Quote
Why do they have to be so rude?

If you’re not rude often enough you can have your membership in the card carrying atheist club revoked. :-) -ds


--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
Bob O'H



Posts: 2564
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: July 02 2006,19:54   

Go Dave!

Dave: what part of "The case cannot be heard by a jury because juries are not available for cases seeking an injunction." are you having difficulty with?

Gads, man!  You can't even quote-mine correctly: you're meant to leave out the stuff shows that you're wrong.

Bob

--------------
It is fun to dip into the various threads to watch cluelessness at work in the hands of the confident exponent. - Soapy Sam (so say we all)

   
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