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fnxtr Posts: 3504 Joined: June 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,09:57    Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 25 2011,06:59) Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Jan. 25 2011,06:34) The feeling I have is more of repulsion and disgust, but that's just because I don't really like seeing blood. But it will never be a feeling of sadness, that's for sure... This.  With strobe lights. In 1984 my s.o. at the time miscarried at about 5 months. I was nearby and saw the doctor carry out a pan with something red in it.  There was definitely an emotional factor.  Even though I knew I wasn't ready to be a dad, it was still sad.   I know it's a different situation than choosing not to carry to term. Sometimes Bad Things happen, people make hard decisions, but I really don't think anyone just shrugs off these things.  Maybe they do.  Maybe one person's heartbreak is another person's equivalent of a stubbed toe. For my part I'm pissed off at the deliberate attempt at emotional manipulation by people who put up anti-choice billboards.  I can see how one response would be to deny that any such emotion exists. -------------- "[A] book said there were 5 trillion witnesses. Who am I supposed to believe, 5 trillion witnesses or you? That shit's, like, ironclad. " -- stevestory "Wow, you must be retarded. I said that CO2 does not trap heat. If it did then it would not cool down at night."  Joe G

Schroedinger's Dog Posts: 1692 Joined: Jan. 2009 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:06    Page turn bug. Again... -------------- "Hail is made out of water? Are you really that stupid?" Joe G "I have a better suggestion, Kris. How about a game of hide and go fuck yourself instead." Louis "The reason people use a crucifix against vampires is that vampires are allergic to bullshit" Richard Pryor

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:18    Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Jan. 25 2011,09:44)   Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2011,15:36)   Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 25 2011,04:11)     Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 24 2011,21:43)           Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 24 2011,20:49) The point of commenting here is that I would like to think that even if I were pro-choice I would readily admit that PZ's comments were repulsive. But, you clearly AREN'T pro-choice so projecting your own squik threshold on those who don't share your particular bias is rather pointless. I happen to agree with PZ and you and other religiously motivated knicker twisters can get the vapours all you want. Just stay the fuck off of my fainting couch, you wankers. You agree with him that pictures of mangled aborted fetuses inspire  no thoughts other than "it's just meat?". For crying out loud, when I see a dead unborn bird (the egg fell) it makes me feel sad.  And that has nothing to do with religion. Not you. Regardless of your stand on abortion, you can truly look at aborted fetuses with no metaphysical connection, even if only to the potential human whose parts are clearly recognizable, lying in a bloody heap? Even without ascribing any moral culpability to anyone, or even acknowledging that that there is any moral issue, even if the abortion was most straightforward inarguable case, (say, saving the life of a woman who was incestuously gang-raped) even then it would be the equivalent of looking at meat?   Then, like PZ, you are also a cold-hearted scumbag with no empathy. But none of that was my point, which was the speculation none of the other big-name atheists would be stupid enough to write what PZ wrote. They make names for themselves by their writing with style and class. PZ by does it by shocking. Of course you didn't grasp what I was saying. All you did was the reflexive: religious person speaking--must disagree. Everything is good-guy/bad-guy. So you know what? You can bite me, jackass. http://www.abortionaccess.info/abortionpictures.htm OMG Claudia!!! IT MAKES ME SOOO SAAAADD!!! WHY, OH WHY DID YOU POST THAT HERE???????? Ahem, sorry 'bout that, please continue... I don't think we want to start posting pictures....only a little over half of women have abortions before week 9. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

dheddle Posts: 545 Joined: Sep. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:22    Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 25 2011,09:22)     Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:11)       Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 25 2011,14:58)       Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,09:18) <shrugs> What I said is true....unless you're subhuman. Annnnnnnd she drops her kissy-poo, sweetness n' light, "can't we all just along" pretense and returns to her roots by pulling the (reverse) Nazi card. See, to me and prolly most of the folks here at AtBC, you and Heddle are merely religiously deluded morons for a variety of reasons that have little if anything to do with your stance and/or feelings regarding abortion.  Both of you, however, classify anybody who doesn't have your opinion/response to abortion as less than human. I find this very telling. I don't put Heddle and FTK in the same box....as far as I put anyone in boxes at all. Heddle is more than capable of reasoned and reasonable discourse about anything that does not impinge on his religion (which is of course NASCAR) and is probably worth Having a Beer With, no matter how much we disagree about some important things. Hell, if nothing else, at least he could teach me some physics. (Although I will say his current foray into demonising anyone who doesn't elevate his (or their own) visceral reactions to pictures of dismembered foetuses to "important and intellectually meaningful" makes me question this...and not for the first time) FTK is....how shall I put this...not. Louis Well, that's good to know.  I haven't seen enough of him, evidently, so his rather violent reaction to the fact that when I look at pictures of aborted fetuses (something I prefer not to do, just as I prefer not to watch video of eye surgery) and say, "Icky.  Blood and meat" as opposed to, "OH!  Poor little Bobby will NEVER ride a bike now" put him in FtK territory.  It would appear he's only a silly-billy like FtK on this particular subject. So, I apologize to Heddle, although it's doubtful he'd accept since I'm an unfeeling monster or somesuch.  *sob*  But YOU love me, don't you, Louis? Regarding "Both of you, however, classify anybody who doesn't have your opinion/response to abortion as less than human." I'll let FtK defend herself,  but that's not true for me. I have many dear friends who are pro-choice and have had abortions. I don't consider any of them monsters. If, however, they told me they had no visceral response to images of mangled, bloody fetuses--then I would reconsider. As for the apology--not needed. I don't mind rough and tumble language--in fact it suits my personality and background much better that proper, civilized dialog. (It's Richard who has that kind of Formula-One/tea and crumpets mentality.) -------------- Mysticism is a rational enterprise. Religion is not. The mystic has recognized something about the nature of consciousness prior to thought, and this recognition is susceptible to rational discussion. The mystic has reason for what he believes, and these reasons are empirical. --Sam Harris

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:22    fixed link -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:26    Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 25 2011,10:22) Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 25 2011,09:22)       Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:11)       Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 25 2011,14:58)         Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,09:18) <shrugs> What I said is true....unless you're subhuman. Annnnnnnd she drops her kissy-poo, sweetness n' light, "can't we all just along" pretense and returns to her roots by pulling the (reverse) Nazi card. See, to me and prolly most of the folks here at AtBC, you and Heddle are merely religiously deluded morons for a variety of reasons that have little if anything to do with your stance and/or feelings regarding abortion.  Both of you, however, classify anybody who doesn't have your opinion/response to abortion as less than human. I find this very telling. I don't put Heddle and FTK in the same box....as far as I put anyone in boxes at all. Heddle is more than capable of reasoned and reasonable discourse about anything that does not impinge on his religion (which is of course NASCAR) and is probably worth Having a Beer With, no matter how much we disagree about some important things. Hell, if nothing else, at least he could teach me some physics. (Although I will say his current foray into demonising anyone who doesn't elevate his (or their own) visceral reactions to pictures of dismembered foetuses to "important and intellectually meaningful" makes me question this...and not for the first time) FTK is....how shall I put this...not. Louis Well, that's good to know.  I haven't seen enough of him, evidently, so his rather violent reaction to the fact that when I look at pictures of aborted fetuses (something I prefer not to do, just as I prefer not to watch video of eye surgery) and say, "Icky.  Blood and meat" as opposed to, "OH!  Poor little Bobby will NEVER ride a bike now" put him in FtK territory.  It would appear he's only a silly-billy like FtK on this particular subject. So, I apologize to Heddle, although it's doubtful he'd accept since I'm an unfeeling monster or somesuch.  *sob*  But YOU love me, don't you, Louis? Regarding "Both of you, however, classify anybody who doesn't have your opinion/response to abortion as less than human." I'll let FtK defend herself,  but that's not true for me. I have many dear friends who are pro-choice and have had abortions. I don't consider any of them monsters. If, however, they told me they had no visceral response to images of mangled, bloody fetuses--then I would reconsider. As for the apology--not needed. I don't mind rough and tumble language--in fact it suits my personality and background much better that proper, civilized dialog. (It's Richard who has that kind of Formula-One/tea and crumpets mentality.) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Wolfhound Posts: 468 Joined: June 2008 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:26    Quote (fnxtr @ Jan. 25 2011,10:57) In 1984 my s.o. at the time miscarried at about 5 months. I was nearby and saw the doctor carry out a pan with something red in it.  There was definitely an emotional factor.  Even though I knew I wasn't ready to be a dad, it was still sad.   I know it's a different situation than choosing not to carry to term. Sometimes Bad Things happen, people make hard decisions, but I really don't think anyone just shrugs off these things.  Maybe they do.  Maybe one person's heartbreak is another person's equivalent of a stubbed toe. For my part I'm pissed off at the deliberate attempt at emotional manipulation by people who put up anti-choice billboards.  I can see how one response would be to deny that any such emotion exists. I see a big difference between a generic Pro-Forced-Maternity propaganda picket sign photo and your own personal experience.  And I'm so sorry you had to go through that.   The whole billboard campaign (when I think of how many living, breathing, already born people those assholes could be helping with the money they spend on the adverts it makes my blood boil) is, of course, designed to make people think of their own child and say, "How could anybody kill Sally?"  Then send them money to "save Sally".  Of course, it ISN'T Sally, and once its born that's pretty obvious so to heck with the Not-Sally. But, I digress. -------------- I've found my personality to be an effective form of birth control.

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:28    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,11:18) Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Jan. 25 2011,09:44)   Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2011,15:36)     Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 25 2011,04:11)     Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 24 2011,21:43)           Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 24 2011,20:49) The point of commenting here is that I would like to think that even if I were pro-choice I would readily admit that PZ's comments were repulsive. But, you clearly AREN'T pro-choice so projecting your own squik threshold on those who don't share your particular bias is rather pointless. I happen to agree with PZ and you and other religiously motivated knicker twisters can get the vapours all you want. Just stay the fuck off of my fainting couch, you wankers. You agree with him that pictures of mangled aborted fetuses inspire  no thoughts other than "it's just meat?". For crying out loud, when I see a dead unborn bird (the egg fell) it makes me feel sad.  And that has nothing to do with religion. Not you. Regardless of your stand on abortion, you can truly look at aborted fetuses with no metaphysical connection, even if only to the potential human whose parts are clearly recognizable, lying in a bloody heap? Even without ascribing any moral culpability to anyone, or even acknowledging that that there is any moral issue, even if the abortion was most straightforward inarguable case, (say, saving the life of a woman who was incestuously gang-raped) even then it would be the equivalent of looking at meat?   Then, like PZ, you are also a cold-hearted scumbag with no empathy. But none of that was my point, which was the speculation none of the other big-name atheists would be stupid enough to write what PZ wrote. They make names for themselves by their writing with style and class. PZ by does it by shocking. Of course you didn't grasp what I was saying. All you did was the reflexive: religious person speaking--must disagree. Everything is good-guy/bad-guy. So you know what? You can bite me, jackass. http://www.abortionaccess.info/abortionpictures.htm OMG Claudia!!! IT MAKES ME SOOO SAAAADD!!! WHY, OH WHY DID YOU POST THAT HERE???????? Ahem, sorry 'bout that, please continue... I don't think we want to start posting pictures....only a little over half of women have abortions before week 9. http://www.abortionaccess.info/abortionpictures.htm So tell me FTK, what should be my punishment? Stoning? -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:29    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:26) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. And yet not moments ago people who did not share your precise response to a photo were sub-human Dahmer-esque monsters who only said these things to justify their lifestyle. Does your lack of intellectual integrity ever bother you, FTK? It should you know. Oh and I notice that no detail or evidence about these lifestyles and other slanders has come forth, so we'll assume, as always, you are merely making things up to be unpleasant. Louis -------------- Bye.

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:31    there's the old FtK jesus if I come out and say "you fucks that look at an aborted fetus and DON'T see just a pile of meat are subhuman" will you take your tu quoques and run away?   holy hell, I mean, Louis IS a big gay Nazi but it's not because of that -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:36    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:29) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:26) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. And yet not moments ago people who did not share your precise response to a photo were sub-human Dahmer-esque monsters who only said these things to justify their lifestyle. Does your lack of intellectual integrity ever bother you, FTK? It should you know. Oh and I notice that no detail or evidence about these lifestyles and other slanders has come forth, so we'll assume, as always, you are merely making things up to be unpleasant. Louis How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:40    Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2011,10:28) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,11:18) Quote (Schroedinger's Dog @ Jan. 25 2011,09:44)     Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2011,15:36)     Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 25 2011,04:11)       Quote (Wolfhound @ Jan. 24 2011,21:43)             Quote (dheddle @ Jan. 24 2011,20:49) The point of commenting here is that I would like to think that even if I were pro-choice I would readily admit that PZ's comments were repulsive. But, you clearly AREN'T pro-choice so projecting your own squik threshold on those who don't share your particular bias is rather pointless. I happen to agree with PZ and you and other religiously motivated knicker twisters can get the vapours all you want. Just stay the fuck off of my fainting couch, you wankers. You agree with him that pictures of mangled aborted fetuses inspire  no thoughts other than "it's just meat?". For crying out loud, when I see a dead unborn bird (the egg fell) it makes me feel sad.  And that has nothing to do with religion. Not you. Regardless of your stand on abortion, you can truly look at aborted fetuses with no metaphysical connection, even if only to the potential human whose parts are clearly recognizable, lying in a bloody heap? Even without ascribing any moral culpability to anyone, or even acknowledging that that there is any moral issue, even if the abortion was most straightforward inarguable case, (say, saving the life of a woman who was incestuously gang-raped) even then it would be the equivalent of looking at meat?   Then, like PZ, you are also a cold-hearted scumbag with no empathy. But none of that was my point, which was the speculation none of the other big-name atheists would be stupid enough to write what PZ wrote. They make names for themselves by their writing with style and class. PZ by does it by shocking. Of course you didn't grasp what I was saying. All you did was the reflexive: religious person speaking--must disagree. Everything is good-guy/bad-guy. So you know what? You can bite me, jackass. http://www.abortionaccess.info/abortionpictures.htm OMG Claudia!!! IT MAKES ME SOOO SAAAADD!!! WHY, OH WHY DID YOU POST THAT HERE???????? Ahem, sorry 'bout that, please continue... I don't think we want to start posting pictures....only a little over half of women have abortions before week 9. http://www.abortionaccess.info/abortionpictures.htm So tell me FTK, what should be my punishment? Stoning? Khan, I believe I've been ~quite~ consistent throughout this entire discussion.  There should be no punishment, imho. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:43    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,11:36) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:29) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:26) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. And yet not moments ago people who did not share your precise response to a photo were sub-human Dahmer-esque monsters who only said these things to justify their lifestyle. Does your lack of intellectual integrity ever bother you, FTK? It should you know. Oh and I notice that no detail or evidence about these lifestyles and other slanders has come forth, so we'll assume, as always, you are merely making things up to be unpleasant. Louis How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. I still have my yanked wisdom teeth. Like the abortion the only reaction was relief that the source of pain was gone. -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:43    no punishment BUT you are not human! -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:44    so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

khan Posts: 1554 Joined: May 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:45    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Jan. 25 2011,11:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. Shit, I asked to see the ultrasound. -------------- "It's as if all those words, in their hurry to escape from the loony, have fallen over each other, forming scrambled heaps of meaninglessness." -damitall That's so fucking stupid it merits a wing in the museum of stupid. -midwifetoad Frequency is just the plural of wavelength... -JoeG

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:47    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:36) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:29)   Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:26) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. And yet not moments ago people who did not share your precise response to a photo were sub-human Dahmer-esque monsters who only said these things to justify their lifestyle. Does your lack of intellectual integrity ever bother you, FTK? It should you know. Oh and I notice that no detail or evidence about these lifestyles and other slanders has come forth, so we'll assume, as always, you are merely making things up to be unpleasant. Louis How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. Read what I wrote FTK. You've made an error. Louis -------------- Bye.

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:50    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Jan. 25 2011,10:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. FTK can't help it.  She's fundamentally immoral, pretending to be good (it's the willingness to write people off as subhuman that does it). Happens all the time. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:53    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Jan. 25 2011,10:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. ummm....I do give a fuck.  Obviously, I have strong feelings about the lives of children.  But, getting pregnant and/or having an abortion is such an insanely emotional and intense moment in a woman's life that I cannot and will not sit back and judge them individually. That does not change the fact that when people look at mangled human fetuses of children, they *should* feel empathy or revulsion rather than feeling absolutely nothing at all. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:54    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,10:36) How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. FFS. This is classic FTK people.     Quote I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman. And I said, dumbass, that if you spend a lifetime looking at such and stop feeling revulsion, are you then subhuman? -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:55    Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:47) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:36)   Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:29)   Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:26) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. And yet not moments ago people who did not share your precise response to a photo were sub-human Dahmer-esque monsters who only said these things to justify their lifestyle. Does your lack of intellectual integrity ever bother you, FTK? It should you know. Oh and I notice that no detail or evidence about these lifestyles and other slanders has come forth, so we'll assume, as always, you are merely making things up to be unpleasant. Louis How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. Read what I wrote FTK. You've made an error. Louis What the hell does the comment about "intellectual integrity" mean then?? -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:56    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,10:53) That does not change the fact that when people look at mangled human fetuses of children, they *should* feel empathy or revulsion rather than feeling absolutely nothing at all. And if you've spent a lifetime looking at such and don't feel as you expect, then you are subhuman right? It's no wonder that religion caused the death of so many people. Don't feel or believe a certain way? You are not human and can be treated as a animal. -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:58    Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 25 2011,10:54) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,10:36) How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. FFS. This is classic FTK people.     Quote I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman. And I said, dumbass, that if you spend a lifetime looking at such and stop feeling revulsion, are you then subhuman? Desensitizing yourself is not relevant to this coversation. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Erasmus, FCD Posts: 6349 Joined: June 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:58    Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2011,11:45) Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Jan. 25 2011,11:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. Shit, I asked to see the ultrasound. YOU MONSTER -------------- You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

oldmanintheskydidntdoit Posts: 4999 Joined: July 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:58    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,10:55) What the hell does the comment about "intellectual integrity" mean then?? …embrace a moral point of view that urges them to be conceptually clear, logically consistent, apprised of relevant empirical evidence, and careful about acknowledging as well as weighing relevant moral considerations. Persons of integrity impose these restrictions on themselves since they are concerned, not simply with taking any moral position, but with pursuing a commitment to do what is best. (Halfon 1989, p. 37.) http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/integrity/#4 -------------- I also mentioned that He'd have to give me a thorough explanation as to *why* I must "eat human babies". FTK if there are even critical flaws in Gauger’s work, the evo mat narrative cannot stand Gordon Mullings

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:58    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:55) Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:47) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:36)   Quote (Louis @ Jan. 25 2011,10:29)     Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:26) I agree dheddle....two of my very closest friends have both had abortions.   I certainly am not going to disolve our friendship because of it...sheesh.  We're talking about photos and having no empathy for them.  We all do...it's a human response. And yet not moments ago people who did not share your precise response to a photo were sub-human Dahmer-esque monsters who only said these things to justify their lifestyle. Does your lack of intellectual integrity ever bother you, FTK? It should you know. Oh and I notice that no detail or evidence about these lifestyles and other slanders has come forth, so we'll assume, as always, you are merely making things up to be unpleasant. Louis How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. Read what I wrote FTK. You've made an error. Louis What the hell does the comment about "intellectual integrity" mean then?? These "lifestyles" to which people who don't share your precise response to a photo, what are they? How do you know what you claim to know? Why is someone's emotional response to a photo predicated on some claimed lifestyle that person has? You're making claims and judgements you have no basis for, do you think that might have some bearing on your intellectual integrity? Louis -------------- Bye.

Ftk Posts: 2239 Joined: Mar. 2007 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,10:59    Quote (MadPanda, FCD @ Jan. 25 2011,10:50) Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Jan. 25 2011,10:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. FTK can't help it.  She's fundamentally immoral, pretending to be good (it's the willingness to write people off as subhuman that does it). Happens all the time. The MadPanda, FCD You'll have to point out where I've been inconsistent. -------------- "Evolution is a creationism and just as illogical [as] the other pantheistic creation myths"  -forastero

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,11:02    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,16:58) Quote (oldmanintheskydidntdoit @ Jan. 25 2011,10:54) Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,10:36) How did I change my response?  I never once said that if you have an abortion you are subhuman....not once.  Pay attention.  I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman.  I'll certainly not change my stance on that. FFS. This is classic FTK people.       Quote I said, if you look at aborted fetuses and feel no empathy or revulsion...u are subhuman. And I said, dumbass, that if you spend a lifetime looking at such and stop feeling revulsion, are you then subhuman? Desensitizing yourself is not relevant to this coversation. Oh but it is. You and Heddle have made the claim that people who do not share your specific emotional, visceral reaction to a photo of an aborted foetus are (depending on who said precisely what) variously not normal, lacking empathy, sub human, or like a specific serial killer. How someone might have become desensitised to such images is PRECISELY relevant, unless you wish to define all such possible desensitisation as rendering one in some fashion sub-human etc. Louis -------------- Bye.

Louis Posts: 6436 Joined: Jan. 2006 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,11:03    Quote (Erasmus, FCD @ Jan. 25 2011,16:58) Quote (khan @ Jan. 25 2011,11:45) Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Jan. 25 2011,11:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. Shit, I asked to see the ultrasound. YOU MONSTER My wife and I even knew the sex of out baby before it was born. People said "don't you want a surprise", I replied that it wasn't much of a surprise now was it? I mean it's going to be a boy or a girl. Puppies would be a surprise! Louis -------------- Bye.

MadPanda, FCD Posts: 267 Joined: Nov. 2010 (Permalink) Posted: Jan. 25 2011,11:06    Quote (Ftk @ Jan. 25 2011,10:59) Quote (MadPanda @ FCD,Jan. 25 2011,10:50) Quote (Erasmus @ FCD,Jan. 25 2011,10:44) so if you have an abortion, FtK don't give a fuck but if you have an abortion and observe some part of the procedure, you are subhuman.  nice. FTK can't help it.  She's fundamentally immoral, pretending to be good (it's the willingness to write people off as subhuman that does it). Happens all the time. The MadPanda, FCD You'll have to point out where I've been inconsistent. Reading comprehension failure. I did not accuse you of being inconsistent (although in many ways you are, and can't help it, given the nature of your delusions).  I said you are fundamentally immoral. You are inconsistent, however, in that on the one hand you can't understand why this stuff is so divisive and on the other hand you make sweeping generalizations that dehumanize others without regard to circumstance.  That's pretty silly.  Of course, given the nature of your delusions, you can't help that, either. The MadPanda, FCD -------------- "No matter how ridiculous the internet tough guy, a thorough mocking is more effective than a swift kick to the gentleman vegetables with a hobnailed boot" --Louis

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