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  Topic: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed., Sternberg, Gonzalez, Crocker - A film< Next Oldest | Next Newest >  
don_quixote



Posts: 110
Joined: Aug. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,16:37   

Chris has finally lost the plot:

Paranoid delusions at The Intersection

  
dnmlthr



Posts: 565
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,16:47   

Quote (don_quixote @ April 23 2008,22:37)
Chris has finally lost the plot:

Paranoid delusions at The Intersection

Sounds like he's taking the ball and going home.

--------------
Guess what? I don't give a flying f*ck how "science works" - Ftk

  
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,17:00   

Quote (Lou FCD @ April 23 2008,15:08)
From that .pdf I just linked:

 
Quote
Habitability on a larger scale was considered a few years ago, by Gonzalez et al. (2001) who introduced the concept of Galactic Habitable Zone (GHZ).

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin....9625890

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,17:11   

Quote (dnmlthr @ April 23 2008,14:47)
Quote (don_quixote @ April 23 2008,22:37)
Chris has finally lost the plot:

Paranoid delusions at The Intersection

Sounds like he's taking the ball and going home.

What, like he's going to be any less mocked  or criticized because he's got a new host?  Unless he starts filtering the comments, I don't know how much it'll matter where he posts, because currently it's working not at all like a charm.
He's still annoying people.

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
Dr.GH



Posts: 2333
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,17:14   

Quote (CeilingCat @ April 23 2008,01:52)
Quote (Mr_Christopher @ April 22 2008,20:30)
Has the Trinity Broadcasting Network interview with Ben Stein been posted yet?  Watch it here

Click on the April 21st edisode of Behind the Scenes with Paul Crouch Jr (I guess he's the son of the crazy woman with crazy big hair).

Did anybody else's Gaydar go off as soon as Paul Crouch Jr. started talking?  Mark my words, we're going to hear about this boy someday.

His father has paid out hundreds of thousands in hush money to butt boys.  Maybe there is a gay gene?

--------------
"Science is the horse that pulls the cart of philosophy."

L. Susskind, 2004 "SMOLIN VS. SUSSKIND: THE ANTHROPIC PRINCIPLE"

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,17:21   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 23 2008,18:00)
Quote (Lou FCD @ April 23 2008,15:08)
From that .pdf I just linked:

   
Quote
Habitability on a larger scale was considered a few years ago, by Gonzalez et al. (2001) who introduced the concept of Galactic Habitable Zone (GHZ).

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin....9625890

Did you read the whole paper I linked, by chance?

Appropriately enough, he's critical of the GHZ idea and the paper sets out to deflate it.

He makes some statements that to my layman's ear sound a lot like "Gonzales pulled that assumption out of his ass, and here's why it's no good."

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,17:37   

I've put out an EMail to one of those Astronomological Sciency type guys about the paper.

I'll post whatever I might get back.

Edited by Lou FCD on April 23 2008,18:38

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
JLT



Posts: 740
Joined: Jan. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,18:36   

The Expelled producers reply:

 
Quote
Executive Producers of EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed Statement on Lawsuit by Yoko Ono

The fair use doctrine is a well established copyright principle based on the belief that the public is entitled to freely use portions of copyrighted materials for purposes of commentary and criticism.

We are disappointed therefore that Yoko Ono and others have decided to challenge our free speech right to comment on the song Imagine in our documentary film.

Based on the fair use doctrine, news commentators and film documentarians regularly use material in the same way we do in EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed .

Premise Media acknowledges that Ms. Yoko Ono did not license the song for use in the Film. Instead, a very small portion of the song was used under the fair use doctrine.

Unbiased viewers of the film will see that the Imagine clip was used as part of a social commentary in the exercise of free speech and freedom of inquiry. Unbiased viewers of the film will also understand that the Imagine clip was used to contrast the messages in the Documentary and that the clip was not used as an endorsement within Expelled.


In short: OH NOES WE'RE BEING EXPELLED!

They should start immediately with producing a new movie.

--------------
"Random mutations, if they are truly random, will affect, and potentially damage, any aspect of the organism, [...]
Thus, a realistic [computer] simulation [of evolution] would allow the program, OS, and hardware to be affected in a random fashion." GilDodgen, Frilly shirt owner

  
ERV



Posts: 329
Joined: Sep. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,18:43   

Fine.  It was fair use.  So why did they ask 'The Killers' and not Yoko Ono?

God they are retarded.

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,18:51   

It seems obvious that they did not wish to enrich the Lennon estate.

They may do so to a far larger extent now by the expedient of hacking off Yoko Ono.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,19:16   

A legitimate fear of being
Expelled.


At Science

Quote
Hundreds of scientists at the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) say they have personally experienced political interference in their work, according to a survey released today by the Union of Concerned Scientists (UCS). The advocacy group, headquartered in Cambridge, Massachusetts, argues that the survey shows a pattern of political misuse of science leading to weaker protections for public health. EPA says that the concerns may largely reflect a misunderstanding of how policy is made.


Quote
Among the findings: 889 scientists had "personally experienced at least one instance of political interference in their work over the last 5 years." Some 394 of these scientists reported that their own findings had been misrepresented by EPA officials. In addition, 285 noted instances in which data had been selected or omitted to weaken a regulation, and 224 had been ordered to "inappropriately exclude or alter technical information from an EPA scientific document." Scientists who reported political interference tended to work in offices that write regulations rather than in basic research labs. Hundreds said they feared retaliation by officials if they voiced concerns about EPA regulations.


--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Reginald Beasley



Posts: 31
Joined: April 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,20:17   

Quote (ERV @ April 23 2008,18:43)
Fine.  It was fair use.  So why did they ask 'The Killers' and not Yoko Ono?

God they are retarded.

This will come up in court.  

For example, if your gas stove stops working in your apartment and you refuse to pay rent and your landlord decides to take you to court, one of the first things the judge says is "Okay, what reasonable measures did you take to alert the landlord of the situation?" and you respond to him, "Well, none your honour." the judge will laugh at you.

It doesnt make it an open-shut case, but it does not bode well for Premise that they never asked for licensing rights.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,20:28   

Quote (JLT @ April 23 2008,19:36)
The Expelled producers reply:

 
Quote
The fair use doctrine is a well established copyright principle based on the belief that the public is entitled to freely use portions of copyrighted materials for purposes of commentary and criticism.

IANAL, but it sure seems to me like the part I bolded would apply to commentary and criticism of the song.

It doesn't mean you can use "Imagine" to criticize something other than "Imagine".

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
midwifetoad



Posts: 4003
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,20:50   

Quote (Lou FCD @ April 23 2008,17:21)
Quote (midwifetoad @ April 23 2008,18:00)
 
Quote (Lou FCD @ April 23 2008,15:08)
From that .pdf I just linked:

     
Quote
Habitability on a larger scale was considered a few years ago, by Gonzalez et al. (2001) who introduced the concept of Galactic Habitable Zone (GHZ).

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin....9625890

Did you read the whole paper I linked, by chance?

Appropriately enough, he's critical of the GHZ idea and the paper sets out to deflate it.

He makes some statements that to my layman's ear sound a lot like "Gonzales pulled that assumption out of his ass, and here's why it's no good."

Are you suggesting that coining the term Galactic Habitable Zones is equivalent to coining the term Cold Fusion?

--------------
Any version of ID consistent with all the evidence is indistinguishable from evolution.

  
Lou FCD



Posts: 5455
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,21:04   

Quote (midwifetoad @ April 23 2008,21:50)
Quote (Lou FCD @ April 23 2008,17:21)
 
Quote (midwifetoad @ April 23 2008,18:00)
 
Quote (Lou FCD @ April 23 2008,15:08)
From that .pdf I just linked:

     
Quote
Habitability on a larger scale was considered a few years ago, by Gonzalez et al. (2001) who introduced the concept of Galactic Habitable Zone (GHZ).

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/cgi-bin....9625890

Did you read the whole paper I linked, by chance?

Appropriately enough, he's critical of the GHZ idea and the paper sets out to deflate it.

He makes some statements that to my layman's ear sound a lot like "Gonzales pulled that assumption out of his ass, and here's why it's no good."

Are you suggesting that coining the term Galactic Habitable Zones is equivalent to coining the term Cold Fusion?

Pending further review, it would appear that way.

--------------
“Why do creationists have such a hard time with commas?

Linky“. ~ Steve Story, Legend

   
Tracy P. Hamilton



Posts: 1239
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,21:09   

Quote (JLT @ April 23 2008,18:36)
The Expelled producers reply:

 
Quote
Executive Producers of EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed Statement on Lawsuit by Yoko Ono

The fair use doctrine is a well established copyright principle based on the belief that the public is entitled to freely use portions of copyrighted materials for purposes of commentary and criticism.

We are disappointed therefore that Yoko Ono and others have decided to challenge our free speech right to comment on the song Imagine in our documentary film.

Based on the fair use doctrine, news commentators and film documentarians regularly use material in the same way we do in EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed .

Premise Media acknowledges that Ms. Yoko Ono did not license the song for use in the Film. Instead, a very small portion of the song was used under the fair use doctrine.

Unbiased viewers of the film will see that the Imagine clip was used as part of a social commentary in the exercise of free speech and freedom of inquiry. Unbiased viewers of the film will also understand that the Imagine clip was used to contrast the messages in the Documentary and that the clip was not used as an endorsement within Expelled.


In short: OH NOES WE'RE BEING EXPELLED!

They should start immediately with producing a new movie.

I have some music suggestions:

Poor, poor, pitiful me, by Warren Zevon.

If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all, Hee-Haw gang.

Liar, by Henry Rollins.

Wonderful World (don't know much about [Nazi] history, don't know much [evolutionary] biology) , by Sam Cooke

--------------
"Following what I just wrote about fitness, you’re taking refuge in what we see in the world."  PaV

"The simple equation F = MA leads to the concept of four-dimensional space." GilDodgen

"We have no brain, I don't, for thinking." Robert Byers

  
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,21:21   

I seem to have misplaced the link to the Youtube video that shows Imagine in the Ben Stein pig.  Of course asking someone to post it in this thread would no doubt  break some rule about linking to unauthorized copyright whatever.  

And of course I would never ask someone to pm that link to me either.  No way!

Chris

editz - Never mind I just found it on Wiki.  Stein uses PZ to lead up to the song Imagine where we're treated to visuals of Joseph Stalin.  Ben Stein has no mind.

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
stevestory



Posts: 13407
Joined: Oct. 2005

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,21:41   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ April 23 2008,22:09)
If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all,

One of my favorite lines ever.

   
Glen Davidson



Posts: 1100
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,21:50   

Cross-posts, originally from Talkorigins:

Quote
Here's a case revealing what a lawyer advised one movie producer:

Quote
Stay Free!: There's a scene where a woman's cell phone rings and she
has the "Rocky" theme ring tone. I noticed that you even cleared that!
I would have thought that could be an example of fair use.


Sewell: I thought so too. It's only six seconds! But our lawyer said
we needed to clear it. So I called Sprint, which owns the ring tone
master rights, and they gave it to me for free because they saw it as
product placement. But then I called EMI, which owns the publishing
rights and they asked for $10,000. I said no way--even the classics
weren't getting that much. Luckily, we were able to get it for less.


Stay Free!: How much did it cost for the average song?


Sewell: It depends on how many entities are attached to it. Our
typical total cost for a classic was about $15,000-20,000, split
between publisher and master rights. With the Rocky theme, the
publishers didn't want to overexpose the song. That was the issue with
Ray Charles' "Hit the Road Jack" as well.


http://blog.stayfreemagazine.org/2005/06/mad_hot_ballroo.html


Supposing this lawyer advised correctly, the only other defense that I
could think "Expelled" might have is that this is criticism or parody
of the work "Imagine". Yet I can't see how either of those would fly,
for there is no actual parody (only an attempted contrast between what
Lennon imagined, and what they portray as the reality of irreligion),
nor is it a criticism of the work itself. It criticizes the ideas of
Lennon, but it is not the ideas that are copyrighted, only the form in
which those ideas is presented is copyrighted.



Quote
Quote


It criticizes the ideas of Lennon, but it is not the ideas that are copyrighted, only the form in which those ideas are presented is copyrighted.


I'd like to add to those comments of mine by saying that only in vaguest sense are they even criticizing Lennon's ideas. Essentially they're just generally disagreeing with his general disparagement of religion, not at all making a direct criticism of even the words he used to formulate those ideas.


Glen D

--------------
http://tinyurl.com/mxaa3p....p

Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of coincidence---ID philosophy

   
Mr_Christopher



Posts: 1238
Joined: Jan. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,22:56   

Sorry if this has already been discussed, I'm behind in the thread but I wanted to say this Chuck Norris article is historical for many reasons.  You have to read it to believe it:

Win Ben Stein's Monkey - Chuck Norris, Town Hall.com

--------------
Uncommon Descent is a moral cesspool, a festering intellectual ghetto that intoxicates and degrades its inhabitants - Stephen Matheson

  
Quidam



Posts: 229
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 23 2008,23:37   

If they get away with it anyone could simply play whatever music one wanted by providing an intro commentary like

"Loving children is bad, MKay, Sting thinks the Russians love their children and look what they did"

... believe me when I say to you ...

0yXgLGix6v4

--------------
The organized fossils ... and their localities also, may be understood by all, even the most illiterate. William Smith, Strata. 1816

  
oldmanintheskydidntdoit



Posts: 4999
Joined: July 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,03:15   

Quote
Ono is seeking Premise's profit from the documentary, as well as at least $75,000 in damages and a ban on the 1971 song's use in the film.


All the profit - potentially gone!
http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695273188,00.html

EDIT: And if it makes a loss? Does Yoko owe them money? :)

  
Erasmus, FCD



Posts: 6349
Joined: June 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,03:17   

I'm sure they can use the EF to determine who owes what where when how why and to whom.

--------------
You're obviously illiterate as hell. Peach, bro.-FtK

Finding something hard to believe based on the evidence, is science.-JoeG

the odds of getting some loathsome taint are low-- Gordon E Mullings Manjack Heights Montserrat

I work on molecular systems with pathway charts and such.-Giggles

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,03:36   

Bad news for Expelled
Quote
There is no fixed amount of permitted usage that is set forth in the fair use statute and the cases do not define any fixed amount of usage.  For those who continue to believe in the absolutely false and incorrect belief that there is any fixed amount of usage that will be acceptable under the fair use doctrine (read the numerous articles on my site dealing with fair use but especially “Fair Use: Further, Further Issues.”  Click on “Articles for Writers and Publishers”), a case from the Sixth Circuit should give you nightmares.

       In Bridgeport Music, Inc. et. al. vs. Dimension Films et. al., the Court found that the use of 3 notes, lasting 2 seconds, from a sound recording called “Get Off Your Ass and Jam” (“Get Off” in the opinion) in the track called “100 Miles and Runnin” (“100 Miles” in the opinion) contained in the sound track of a motion picture called “I Got the Hook Up” (“Hook Up” in the opinion) was not fair use.
                    ...
In other words, the appellate Court found that the standard that might otherwise be applied in determining whether a use was a fair use, a standard that looked to the quantity of material taken from the protected work, was not applicable to the taking of material from a protected sound recording.
                    ...
In a footnote, the Court stated:
“In most copyright actions, the issue is whether the infringing work is substantially similar to the original work. . . . The scope of inquiry is much narrower when the work in question is a sound recording. The only issue is whether the actual sound recording has been used without authorization. Substantial similarity is not an issue . . . .” Bradley C. Rosen, Esq., 22 CAUSES OF ACTION § 12 (2d ed. 2003).

On the other hand, I remember reading an article on a commercial disk copying program back in the eight bit computer era that opened up with a sample from a Walt Disney pirate song and they apparently got away with it.

Still, my advice is to apologize and settle out of court.  I think Jesus had some similar advice:

Matthew 5:25 Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison.

But What Would Jesus Know about that?

  
CeilingCat



Posts: 2363
Joined: Dec. 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,03:59   

Quote
We are disappointed therefore that Yoko Ono and others have decided to challenge our free speech right to comment on the song Imagine in our documentary film.

I'll bet his iPOD is filled with songs he has a free speech right to comment on.

  
didymos



Posts: 1828
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,04:34   

Quote (CeilingCat @ April 24 2008,01:36)
But What Would Jesus Know about that?


He who lives by the tard, dies by the tard?

--------------
I wouldn't be bothered reading about the selfish gene because it has never been identified. -- Denyse O'Leary, professional moron
Again "how much". I don't think that's a good way to be quantitative.-- gpuccio

  
dogdidit



Posts: 315
Joined: Mar. 2008

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,06:27   

Quote (Tracy P. Hamilton @ April 23 2008,21:09)
   
Quote (JLT @ April 23 2008,18:36)
The Expelled producers reply:

       
Quote
Executive Producers of EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed Statement on Lawsuit by Yoko Ono

The fair use doctrine is a well established copyright principle based on the belief that the public is entitled to freely use portions of copyrighted materials for purposes of commentary and criticism.

We are disappointed therefore that Yoko Ono and others have decided to challenge our free speech right to comment on the song Imagine in our documentary film.

Based on the fair use doctrine, news commentators and film documentarians regularly use material in the same way we do in EXPELLED: No Intelligence Allowed .

Premise Media acknowledges that Ms. Yoko Ono did not license the song for use in the Film. Instead, a very small portion of the song was used under the fair use doctrine.

Unbiased viewers of the film will see that the Imagine clip was used as part of a social commentary in the exercise of free speech and freedom of inquiry. Unbiased viewers of the film will also understand that the Imagine clip was used to contrast the messages in the Documentary and that the clip was not used as an endorsement within Expelled.


In short: OH NOES WE'RE BEING EXPELLED!

They should start immediately with producing a new movie.

I have some music suggestions:

Poor, poor, pitiful me, by Warren Zevon.

If it weren't for bad luck, I'd have no luck at all, Hee-Haw gang.

Liar, by Henry Rollins.

Wonderful World (don't know much about [Nazi] history, don't know much [evolutionary] biology) , by Sam Cooke

Warren Zevon has some advice:

Send lawyers, guns, and money
The shit has hit the fan!!


--------------
"Humans carry plants and animals all over the globe, thus introducing them to places they could never have reached on their own. That certainly increases biodiversity." - D'OL

  
Wesley R. Elsberry



Posts: 4991
Joined: May 2002

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,06:32   

Quote

Are you suggesting that coining the term Galactic Habitable Zones is equivalent to coining the term Cold Fusion?


Come now; Pons and Fleischman at least had experimental evidence for cold fusion. It was a basically minor effect from a close to irreproducible experiment, but that's got to count for something.

--------------
"You can't teach an old dogma new tricks." - Dorothy Parker

    
Reciprocating Bill



Posts: 4265
Joined: Oct. 2006

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,06:35   

Quote (Wesley R. Elsberry @ April 23 2008,19:51)
It seems obvious that they did not wish to enrich the Lennon estate.

They may do so to a far larger extent now by the expedient of hacking off Yoko Ono.

False WAD was right. Expelled! is looking like a home run:



--------------
Myth: Something that never was true, and always will be.

"The truth will set you free. But not until it is finished with you."
- David Foster Wallace

"Here’s a clue. Snarky banalities are not a substitute for saying something intelligent. Write that down."
- Barry Arrington

  
Doc Bill



Posts: 1039
Joined: April 2007

(Permalink) Posted: April 24 2008,07:46   

Obviously, the producers are using the Imagine Ploy to garner publicity.

I can prove it!

Google News reports about 60 articles on Expelled the Movie.

Google News reports about 280 articles on Yoko Sues Expelled.

The Expelled producers are vewy, vewy cwafty wabbit hunters!  Shhhhh!

  
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