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Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,23:00   

Quote (skeptic @ Mar. 11 2008,07:04)
also, when making wild claims you should get your facts straight first, namely check into current trends in teen pregnancy rates (this is unrelated to abstinence programs) and AIDS prevention and incidence.  Know before you use a broad brush to air your individual prejudices.

one in four teen girls have an STD

The story also mentions the fact that between 2005 and 2006 the teen birth rate rose for the first time in 15 years.  It's certainly more complicated than simply saying that abstinence only education is completely to blame but it's still fairly logical to conclude that it played a part.

The science says that abstinence only programs do not work.  I didn't conclude this because I like sex and dislike Jesus, I concluded it after it kept not working.

  
Nomad



Posts: 311
Joined: July 2007

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 11 2008,23:23   

Quote (carlsonjok @ Mar. 11 2008,06:45)
I'm growing weary of this discussion, but I would like to point out two things. First, you appear to be conflating government with society and, second, not drawing a clear enough distinction between scientific advancement and it's application to public policy. The fact of the matter is both governments and public policy change, sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse (see previous comment re: goring oxes).

Indeed, there is often backlash against the type of meddling in public policy you are worried about and I offer as  counter-examples the backlash against the Religious Right over Gardasil, the cervical cancer vaccine, efforts by the state of California to implement emissions controls more stringent than those of the federal government, and the fact that somewhere in the range of 14 states have turned down federal abstinence-only funding in order to provide more comprehensive sex education programs.

I will admit to having realized a certain logical conflict in what I was going to try to argue.  I was going to say that while I understand that the government and the society are different concepts that the government is supposed to be guided by society.

But I'm also asking for the government to guide society.  I actually had that typed out before I realized what I was saying.

And I know that there is often a backlash, although not of the specific examples you raise (it's nice to hear about them though).

The problem is that there is then a decent chance that a while later we'll have a backlash against all that "secular culture" back to the extremist religious stuff.
I suppose I should consider that legislating against fundie home schooling could result in fueling that backlash.

  
skeptic



Posts: 1163
Joined: May 2006

(Permalink) Posted: Mar. 12 2008,01:36   

here you go, here's both of them back to back and you can make your own determination.

14 year teen pregnancy decrease

1 year teen pregnancy increase

As is typical of most topics covered in the media, the 1 year data is almost complete speculation and a quick rush to judgment which is the obvious initial intention of the story.  In short, IMO it would be much more prudent to wait 3-4 more years before we announce that the trend has reversed and it's all W's fault.

  
  92 replies since Mar. 06 2008,21:53 < Next Oldest | Next Newest >  

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